All Screaming Id, No Brains, No Honor

[joeblast]

more horse stance, allright! I got a feevah, and it calls for more horse stance!

 

 

(just being funny, not rhetorical and facetious)

[Aetherous]

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

THE BATTLE FOR THE SOUL OF AMERICA!!!

 

If America was a person, I would recommend more horse stance. If you take everything away and look at what's left in the very core, you might find something good. AMERICA MORE HORSE STANCE!!!

 

 

Pity american horse stance is just a sex position though...

Edited February 7, 2012 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Encephalon]

Yup, yours. You insinutated that I haven't posted thoughtfully or with any depth, and asserted that I knew nothing about you or the author.

 

I didn't actually point a finger (unless you misunderstood something I wrote) except to say basically that the author is way too pessimistic.

 

And my favorite old adage is once again true despite my involvement: by pointing out his useless pessimism, I am obviously not being usefully optimistic about the author.

 

Anyway, yes it still is surprising that anyone on this forum would find an article that's so useless to be worth anything at all. It is just a huge pessimistic rant and doesn't seek to solve anything or even point out any real problems (for instance, Madonna doing a half time show, and the state of American womanhood? What a joke).

 

 

 

That sounds nice, and more than I do...but does this actually solve America's problems in any way? Please be honest. I already know that the answer is a resounding NO.

 

I don't mean to pick on you, but I'm hoping to:

1) Get answers from educated people about how I can personally solve the real issues, to do my part. REALLY do something, not just Go Green.

2) Inspire you (and others) to not be so complacent, and actually do something useful instead of bitching about everything. Not puff up your intellect and spout off your credentials and accomplishments. If getting a graduate degree in geography and writing a thesis paper solved America's problems, then we'd be totally fine...lots of people are wasting/spending their time and money on that. However, it doesn't solve the real issues...just might make you aware of them. Moving your family to an ecovillage doesn't solve anything for America, either.

 

So I'm trying to push for being proactive...not simply pushing your buttons. Hope that comes across. I don't mean to piss you off...apparently that is really easy to accomplish.

 

I'm also trying to learn and cut through the bullshit...political, intellectual, personal, etc...so that maybe we can do something good. Or at least switch from bitching-mode into asking questions and finding solutions-mode.

 

 

 

The article you posted sucked. Saying I was surprised you posted it was meant to be taken as a compliment, and to divert attention away from any ego issues. Don't know how you took it so personally.

 

 

 

Yup, you probably wouldn't even be capable of recognizing it on page 1...you are far too wise and experienced to recognize wisdom and experience.

 

You're coming off like someone who's holding me accountable for your lack of direction. The first step to moving forward is at least recognizing the nature of the problem. You came off as if you had no idea what our country is facing and chose to get bent out of shape over a piece that was critical on American consumer culture. Yeah, identifying the problem is an essential step. Studying the ramifications comes next. Putting your knowledge into practice and demonstrating a viable alternative to consumer culture is the next step. I told you as clearly as I could how my family and I are going to do that in 2015. But it's not incumbent on me to plot your course unerringly. What the fuck do you want from me? A goddamn blueprint on how to change the world?

 

Later -

I just re-read your previous post and I am again left wondering what it is you're looking for in terms of authentic action. The single greatest feat a relative handful of people could pull off is to demonstrate a viable alternative to the unsustainable consumer lifestyle. You dismiss my plans to move to an eco-village as pointless, but those who have successfully done so are demonstrating a saner, more sustainable, and more meaningful way to live. Throw in some Taoists and you've got what many in TTB long for, but to you it's just BS. Are you an expert on the ecovillage movement too, or are you just looking for flaws in everyone else's plans?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Encephalon

[Encephalon]

You know who you're talking to Scotty - "anything to disparage downstream effects of capitalism," no matter how contrived, no matter how much it confuses cause and effect, is in bounds.

 

Except for pointing that very thing out, of course. Talk about armchair quarterbacks!

 

Flower children need to say othes are brainwashed in order to make themselves feel less bad about themselves having been brainwashed like a victim who sticks up for her kidnapper - and since they perceive that things have been distorted, they have no compunction over distorting things themselves, because hey, the other side did it first!

 

So in other words, you're part of a big groupthink experiment and its going quite well. Too bad some professors never leave the realm of theory to see if their hairbraned ideas might work. Not all of them can simply close their ears and go nananana if I cant hear you you cant prove me wrong and have Academia back them up saying yeah, you cant mess with one of ours!

 

an exponential leap in social evolution? what is this and how it is going to magically change the world? *takes out the popcorn maker*

 

railways system who's going to pay for that again? you do realize what country you're in, yes? (riiight, the one with the fascist in chief who had his lackey EPA mandate a doubling of gas mileage that will only serve to put new cars out of price range for young or poor people - of course, since congress wont pass such a thing, we'll just deem it so, kinda like with obamacare.)

 

who's going to pay for reconstituting urban areas? who destroyed them? (how's detroit?)

 

I dont know how you guys rationalize your ideas, you have to ignore so much of empirical reality in order to do so its crazy...*facepalm* that doesnt bother you having to do that in order to subscribe to an idea....or do you just ignore any inconvenient data or outcomes, everything's peachy, kumbaya this solution is da best!

 

Lots of points to respond to. Few are worth investigating. If we were compelled by pain of death to speak with civil tongues I'd have to repeat what I've said repeatedly at junctures like this - we harvest the data for our mental universes from different sources. My curiosity about the world led me to a graduate degree in geography, a subject which synthesizes a variety of disciplines, and I continue to build my ideas from the sources I gathered in that venture. I needn't comment on where you harvest the fodder for your ideas, Joe, but suffice it to say, the incredulity you experience in the presence of the ideas I present in here goes both ways; I find your ideas incomprehensible, and it's not for a lack of trying.

 

Rather than address every point you brought up, I would invite you to take a hard look at the role of subsidization in this country. You repeatedly raise the question of how on earth we can rebuild the infrastructure. The entire experiment in American industrial capitalism for the last 150 years, including suburban consumer culture, has been a vast exercise in subsidy. Auto-dependency, highway construction, and suburbia was a great idea in the 50s and 60s for soaking up surplus productivity but now it requires massive subsidization just to remain on life support.

 

In an era of dwindling resources, it is likely that the subsidies and protectionism that make private transportation affordable to steel, auto, road construction, gasoline, to name a few will be redirected to public transportation systems. I can drive my Saab 9000 to Redondo Beach every summer because I dont have to build my own freeway, refine my own gas or bake my own tires.

 

Part of the bogus Reinvestment Act is actually going to pay off for me this summer. Ill be able to walk a half mile and connect with a line that can take me all the way to Redondo without gas, wear and tearon my car, or parking fees. Im not sure how it will compare, especially with a newborn, but well see.

 

Its not entirely the same with the health care sector, but we choose to give preferential treatment to insurance companies instead of making health care universal. Thats the choice weve made and theres nothing historically inevitable about it. Other countries make different choices. The debate world-wide has been over how long the US will protect it's insurance companies; only in the US has it been framed as a conflict between the public and private sector.

 

 

It makes sense that the 3-fold plan of a reconstructed rail system, decentralized agriculture, and urban renewal would appear as fantasy to you, given that urban planning itself is considered anathema to the modern right, as are ecology and the prospect of finite resources. American suburbia is generally taken as the natural order of things, but when oil inputs eventually become too expensive or disrupted there will have to be plans in place. Subsidizing suburbia will give way to subsidizing public transportation and complementary urban and AG corridors. Less auto-dependency, in other words.

 

I sincerely hope we can retool in a deliberative fashion. But these three projects will have to be done if catastrophic disruptions in energy flows are to be absorbed. I hope all the whiny liberals and ecofreaks are wrong and that the earth never runs out of cheap oil or cheap credit and suburban bliss remains the order of the day.

 

If you're wrong, and BAU proves untenable, we're totally fucked. I'd rather we err on the side of caution.

 

Oh, btw - this "flower child" as you say, completed his tour of duty 30 years ago this month, so your shit-slinging about my commitment to the health of my country is the sound of your larynx vibrating your rectum.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Encephalon

[Aetherous]

Encephalon,

 

I apologize for being confrontational. My intent was to stimulate more active discussion and thinking...but I see that it's created a hostile atmosphere, in which people feel less likely to share their creative ideas.

 

I think your plan for moving to an eco-village will prove to be very useful for you and your family...my questioning was aiming at a national scale...like what can the common person who doesn't know/care do, or what can we do for them?

 

I felt like this line of questioning could be really useful in changing our personal lives and maybe spilling over to affect the lives of others...you never know what one person can accomplish. So my motives here were really for the good, and I didn't mean to attack you.

 

However, the article is still pointless.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Scotty

[Birch]

Pity american horse stance is just a sex position though...

Oh, forget it

[Birch]

Nice post Encephalon.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that America is fairly fucked up, psychologically.

And it's no wonder given the enormous amounts of money spent on fostering consumerism, keeping us locked into our societal hallucination, and the complicity of our lawmakers.

 

It puts me in mind of the French decadence leading up to the revolution...

 

.

Yep, those French b'stards!

 

Sorry sorry, I'm skipping about trying to lighten up because Encephalon is out of sorts and I'm not used to it.

Not working, probably.

[joeblast]

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Oh, forget it

 

 

okay i'll forget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, what was i supposed to forget???

i forgot... no wait, i cant forget something i dont even know! can i?

[Birch]

okay i'll forget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, what was i supposed to forget???

i forgot... no wait, i cant forget something i dont even know! can i?

 

 

It was a sort of a note to self. As I was skipping around trying to lighten up I came across your post and thought I'd tease you a bit and then thought again and recanted.

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

 

 

[ralis]

 

Oh, btw - this "flower child" as you say, completed his tour of duty 30 years ago this month, so your shit-slinging about my commitment to the health of my country is the sound of your larynx vibrating your rectum.good thing they dont moderate for personal insults down here. I dont care how old you are and I dont care if you got shot at in vietnam - do those facts somehow make you more knowledgeable? not on their own, not in the least. but if you feel they're a good excuse for you to act as such, well, I'm not the judge of your behavior - everyone else can do their own laughing at you

 

 

For your info Joe, I grew up in the 60's and my generation (flower children), not just here in the U.S., is responsible for stopping the Vietnam war. Furthermore, my generation created a renaissance and enlightenment in the arts (music, literature etc.) comparable to the European 'Renaissance' and 'Enlightenment'. Lest we not forget, womens rights, civil rights and so on that was a result of protests and political activism. Also computer information technology began in WWII with major advances in computer languages and integrated circuits in the 50's and 60's.

 

 

What about the 'Tea Bagger' stance against the George Bush war in Iraq and Afghanistan war? Never hear one mention against the wars from the 'Tea Bagger Republicans'. When it comes to nationalism and 'support the troops', then the right wing gets all teary eyed and emotional.

 

 

Make all the fun and disrespectful comments you care to, however, without my generation and my parents generation hard work and sacrifice, the country would be much different. Most likely not a suitable place to live.

Edited February 11, 2012 by ralis

[joeblast]

[ralis]

 

I guess you have nothing intelligent to add. What has your generation accomplished? Video games?

Edited February 11, 2012 by ralis