Informer Posted February 11, 2012 Hehehe. It's okay to be wrong according to someone else's criteria. You just keep on keeping on. HAha, what else to do but keep on keeping on? Good one! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 If I said I was enlightened, what would that mean? I would personally say that it means you are not enlightened. Just my opinion tho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 11, 2012 If I said I was enlightened, what would that mean? I say enlightened and you grasp an idea, a definition from what you've learned about it, attach it to the idea, and thus decide whether or not I am or am not, based on what you've learned. Be done with knowledge. So long as you search for enlightenment you will never find it. Aaron No,...you may have accepted some definition for enlightenment,...to me it's self explanitory,...enlightenment is having a direct understanding, as in being onto- or en- Light. Light is absolutely still. Just increase your speed to 186k mps and you will be like Buddha,...perfectly still,...neither coming or going,...eternal. Of course, to those as yourself, those who limit themselves to the first two Turnings only, Buddha said, "Those who cannot accept that the Tathāgata is eternal, cause misery." (Mahaparinirvana Sutra). Vajrayana uses all Four Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma,...not just the first Turning which introduced a path to end suffering, or the Second, on Emptiness. Vajrayana is a Short Path, whose Bee's collect honey from all applicable sources, so to realize Light in a single lifetime. The Buddha told Ananda, "You still listen to the Dharma with the conditioned mind, and so the Dharma becomes conditioned as well, and you do not obtain the Dharma-nature." "There is no Present in time" is an absolute bodhicitta aphorism,...meaning that, it cultivates right mindfulness. In the Lojong, the most important absolute bodhiciita aphorism is "treat everything you see as a dream." This duality of electrodynamic light is literally a dream. The so-called moving light in this dream is no more real than the light in your dream last night,...or the images on a theaters screen. Just like in a dream, if someone slaps you, you feel it. Can we get out of this dream? The Buddha instructed that the Six Senses is a barrier to get out, and when you are out, you (not the you that you think you are) are perfectly still. Like Light, the Tathagata has not moved a single centimeter in all eternity. How do we merge with Light? We move 186k mps, shedding all time, mass, and energy, and enter perfectly still Light. Of course, like the Buddha, that doesn't mean we have to disgard our dense dream body. We just don't take that condition into the Unconditionality of Undivided Light. This isn't about knowledge,...but gnowledge. Those who know, do not gnow. The relative is grounded in the intellect, in knowledge. Knowledge proceeds through what Buddha called the five skandhas or Aggregates, which includes sensual perceptions and conditioned experience by way of the psyche or personal consciousness. To know is to comprehend noologically, through intellect-based thought, the 6th sense. Gnowledge is to understand through metasensory awareness and unconditioned experience through the thymos or impersonal consciousness. To gnow is to understand by way of gnosis, the contection with Heart Mind. One can recognize the difference through change,...KNOWLEDGE changes,...GNOWLEDGE does not change. Knowledge is ALWAYS in the past,...whereas Gnowledge is ALWAYS in the Present. V 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 11, 2012 Nice post and advice. I am in basic agreement. Interesting that this was included as I had just spoke to the subject: Expell the stale air. Full body breathing is intended to do this. (As Chuang Tzu said, Breathe through the heels of your feet.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 Anyway another point Vmarco, you keep saying six senses yet are aware of 7, you already said it. Yet not before I. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) If you want to put your writing capabilities to good use, you are free to use 6th and 7th sense theory to further awareness. Feelings should be taught in school without question. I call it the 6th and 7th sense Theory. Please don't take it the wrong way that I am trying to be a teach, I only wish to share something that is self-evident although often overlooked. I has been observed since the beginning of many. If you already know this, please do not take it as an insult. I am in no way pushing this on anyone, only showing so that one may decide for themself. I think this should be considered a Law because it has been observed since the beginning of man. Each one of us have experienced these and they play a part in our interpretation of the world. The 6th sense is feeling, the 7th is mind/consciousness I have heard that many easterner's already consider the mind another sense, although I am not certain. ELECTROMAGNETIC Sight -detected through light receptors in your eyes. -most people have 3 types of cone and rods. Some people have 1 or 2 types of cone (colour blind people) and some have 4 types of cone (possible new variants of human being). -The eye also contains many computing neurons that send information to the brain about colour, brightness, and the borders present in the scene. Emotion -detected in solar plexus (celiac plexus), located in the upper abdomen. -A complex network of nerves where people "feel emotions" -Rich in ganglia and interconnected neurons, the solar plexus is the largest autonomic nerve center in the abdominal cavity -Mostly developes during puberty. Mind/conscious -detected in the pineal gland (sometimes referred to as "the 3rd eye" by some spiritualists, pineal body, epiphysis cerebri and epiphysis by neuroscientist) At the center and connecting the two hemispheres of the brain. -Produces melatonin (N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine) which also exhibits a circadian rhythm. -Responsible for the homosapien's sense of self awareness. PHYSICAL VIBRATION Sound -detected through tiiny hairs in your inner ear. -there are many hairs, different sizes detecting different frequencies. Touch -detected through your skin. There are a range of different types of nerves detecting temperature changes, torn flesh, high, and low frequency pressure, and more! CHEMICAL Taste - salty, sour, bitter, sweet, and umami. They correspond to sodium, acid, complex(many biologically active chemicals like poisons and antioxidants), sugar, and amino acid (protein). There may be more tastes that we have not identified receptors for. Eg metallic tastes? -tastes are detected through chemical receptors on the tongue. Smell - although the human is not as sensitive as a dog, we still have many different chemical detectors in the nose and can detect thousands of different scent signatures. -smell is slightly different to taste in that the nerves of the olfactory system enter directly into the main brain rather than going through central processing like the rest of our senses. Edited February 11, 2012 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 You could use phenomenal experiences such as metta, middle dan tien, rejuvenation center etc. to further the claim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 11, 2012 I like my five senses. They serve me very well. Well, okay, they are growing old just as I am and they can't perform as well as they used to but still. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 I like my five senses. They serve me very well. Well, okay, they are growing old just as I am and they can't perform as well as they used to but still. Oh such a skeptic all of a sudden! Love is proven yet not through science, only experience. So it be the first GATE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 11, 2012 GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE. I'm pretty sure Lao Tzu had said something very similar, as did jesus and many others, yet in a diff way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 11, 2012 Oh such a skeptic all of a sudden! No, I am always a skeptic. It is just that I try really hard to not criticize those who are not. Love is proven yet not through science, only experience. Love? Did you really have to use that four-letter word? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 11, 2012 No,...you may have accepted some definition for enlightenment,...to me it's self explanitory,...enlightenment is having a direct understanding, as in being onto- or en- Light. Light is absolutely still. Just increase your speed to 186k mps and you will be like Buddha,...perfectly still,...neither coming or going,...eternal. Of course, to those as yourself, those who limit themselves to the first two Turnings only, Buddha said, "Those who cannot accept that the Tathāgata is eternal, cause misery." (Mahaparinirvana Sutra). Vajrayana uses all Four Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma,...not just the first Turning which introduced a path to end suffering, or the Second, on Emptiness. Vajrayana is a Short Path, whose Bee's collect honey from all applicable sources, so to realize Light in a single lifetime. The Buddha told Ananda, "You still listen to the Dharma with the conditioned mind, and so the Dharma becomes conditioned as well, and you do not obtain the Dharma-nature." "There is no Present in time" is an absolute bodhicitta aphorism,...meaning that, it cultivates right mindfulness. In the Lojong, the most important absolute bodhiciita aphorism is "treat everything you see as a dream." This duality of electrodynamic light is literally a dream. The so-called moving light in this dream is no more real than the light in your dream last night,...or the images on a theaters screen. Just like in a dream, if someone slaps you, you feel it. Can we get out of this dream? The Buddha instructed that the Six Senses is a barrier to get out, and when you are out, you (not the you that you think you are) are perfectly still. Like Light, the Tathagata has not moved a single centimeter in all eternity. How do we merge with Light? We move 186k mps, shedding all time, mass, and energy, and enter perfectly still Light. Of course, like the Buddha, that doesn't mean we have to disgard our dense dream body. We just don't take that condition into the Unconditionality of Undivided Light. This isn't about knowledge,...but gnowledge. Those who know, do not gnow. The relative is grounded in the intellect, in knowledge. Knowledge proceeds through what Buddha called the five skandhas or Aggregates, which includes sensual perceptions and conditioned experience by way of the psyche or personal consciousness. To know is to comprehend noologically, through intellect-based thought, the 6th sense. Gnowledge is to understand through metasensory awareness and unconditioned experience through the thymos or impersonal consciousness. To gnow is to understand by way of gnosis, the contection with Heart Mind. One can recognize the difference through change,...KNOWLEDGE changes,...GNOWLEDGE does not change. Knowledge is ALWAYS in the past,...whereas Gnowledge is ALWAYS in the Present. V Alright. you either don't read what I say or don't bother to pay attention. You put words in my mouth, make accusations, and seem to generally ignore everything except for what you want to respond to. Maybe someday you'll figure it out, but til then I hope you're happy as a Buddhist and apparently a hypocrite. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 11, 2012 Anyway another point Vmarco, you keep saying six senses yet are aware of 7, you already said it. Yet not before I. There are Eight Senses, and Nine levels of consciousness. The first 6 consciousness' are the consciousness' of sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell, and thought. To realize the 7th, 8th, 9th levels, one must transcend the first 6. In psychology, the first 6 are synonymous with Maslows Lowerarchy, that which is beneath Self-actualization. Beyond Self-Actualization, which Maslow call Transcendance, and which the Psychology of the "normal" reject, is where the higher levels of consciousness are accessed. V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) That is why the central nerve system is being insinuated to be an organ. Separate from touch. Where is the organ for touch? Edited February 12, 2012 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) . Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Awareness of awareness, is the freedom from samsara without being trapped in nirvana. 8th. (IMO) Trapped in nirvana isn't really a sense, as the other are with awareness, yet more of an absence or null. (Arhat)? Edited February 12, 2012 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 12, 2012 Could you refer me to some of your sources for the set of nine consciousness teachings? Because from what I know, all the Mahayana teachers (both from China and Tibet) from antiquity up to modern times have all taught the 8 consciousness system. Yes,...and Vajrayana also teaches of 8 levels of consciousness within alaya. The 9th,...the consciousness that is not a sense,...is beyond alaya. There are to my knowledge, no specific sources for this level of practice. What references there are, can be gleaned from various mahamudra's and Short Path activities (such as Paul Brunton's Notebook), but mostly from intimate understanding of dependent origination, emptiness, Tathagata, and Presence. None of those four can be understood without a direct realization of WHEN you are. This realization of WHEN, does not occur through the conditions of the first 6 consciousness'. In developing qualities to understand WHEN, it is advantageous to inquire about Who's Who in Duality, which when properly discerned, duality is seen as a singular, cyclical force, not two. In other words, Form is Empty, and Empty is Form. Dark yin initiates compression from cold, thus multiplying cold to create incandescence through yang's heat. The compressed heat expands, thus dividing crystallized light and yang's heat back to dark, yin cold. That is the pulse of the harmonic balanced interchange of duality. Through Emptiness perceived creation dies into Form, but at no time is form separate from emptiness, or emptiness separate from form. The 8 sense consciousness' arise from duality. Many suggest that the 8th consciousness is beyond reality,...because from the point of view of some on the 8 consciousness level, they believe they are part of a non-dual environment. For example: http://www.thetaobum...ce/page__st__96 Keep in mind,...why this post was even attempted, is to not to point to some wonderful reality beyond Brahman,...but to establish a need to inquire about the nature of Who's Who in Duality,...if for no other reason, so to verify the essence of compassion. As The Way of the Bodhisattva (Shantideva)stated: "The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is deared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible." Or, "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." Robert Thurman V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 12, 2012 The only person to teach a 9 consciousness system was an Indian by the name of Paramartha (499-569.) Where the adana-vijnana (appropriating consciousness) is the 7th consciousness, that mentions the alaya with 3 different functions and the amala-vijnana ("stainless" consciousness) as the 9th consciousness. Needless to say, this isn't a system that is taught widely today. The only exception that I know about (from doing a search on the internet) being the Nichiren sect of Buddhism; which IMO, has a lot of eternalist interpretations in it's teachings. As nothing is greater or less than nine,...the Nine Consciousness' are uncovered in all practices that transcend the 6 senses. The Nine Consciousness' are implied in Bon, through the 9 point swastika, through Vajrayana's nine pointed vajra, through Gurdjieff's enneagram, through the Nine Levels of Taranatha's Consciousness model, possibly related to the nine stages of the Nyingmapas, the Egyptian Ennead, and through the nature of Light itself (see 'What is Light' thread). V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 12, 2012 As nothing is greater or less than nine,...the Nine Consciousness' are uncovered in all practices that transcend the 6 senses. The Nine Consciousness' are implied in Bon, through the 9 point swastika, through Vajrayana's nine pointed vajra, through Gurdjieff's enneagram, through the Nine Levels of Taranatha's Consciousness model, possibly related to the nine stages of the Nyingmapas, the Egyptian Ennead, and through the nature of Light itself (see 'What is Light' thread). V V Marco, Could it be that your designing your own brand of Buddhism? Well I'm sure you wont answer this, you have a tendency to avoid comments that poke holes in your theories. Good luck convincing the masses to follow Marcoism. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) . Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 12, 2012 V Marco, Could it be that your designing your own brand of Buddhism? Well I'm sure you wont answer this, you have a tendency to avoid comments that poke holes in your theories. Good luck convincing the masses to follow Marcoism. Aaron But once again, you talk of poking holes in a theory, and once again you poke no holes. A relationship with transcends continents and cultures, from the Maya Popal Vuh 9 aspects of gods, to the eight spokes of Buddhism's Wheel of Dharma upon a center hub. If you observed nature as it is, nothing is greater or less than nine. The creative force within duality arises through the perceived separation from zero. To create progeny, the nine gods of the Popal Vuh for example, that is the six lesser or boundary gods who rule the six convex spectral planes, and god seven, the three aspects of zero, must work as one to propagate the many. If you wanted to poke holes, you had months and months to do so in the 'What is Light' thread. But you did not, because you can not. 'All matter is just a mass of [divided]light.' Sri Aurobindo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Also, I read your link to one of the threads you posted in, but there wasn't any specific sources for the information I'm asking about. Do you mean: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19803-what-is-light/page__st__57 Edited February 12, 2012 by Vmarco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
