Exploring the Now

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[johndoe2012]

To add to Xabirs above post:

 

A "fourth stage" Arhat has overcome all the 81 Cognitive Delusions My link (the 88 Deluded Viewpoints My link is overcome in the stage of the Srotaapana or "first stage Arhat.")

 

I stand corrected.

 

Thanks for the links, guys.

[Marblehead]

I stand corrected.

 

Thanks for the links, guys.

 

I generally sit down and shut up after being corrected.

[JustARandomPanda]

I generally sit down and shut up after being corrected.

 

I'm beginning to think I should follow Taoist Marblehead's example - especially at Taobums.

[Marblehead]

I'm beginning to think I should follow Taoist Marblehead's example - especially at Taobums.

 

Hehehe.

 

But consider, if you will, SereneBlue, that I have never been properly corrected here on this forum from the moment I joined the board to this present moment so it is pretty much a fact that I have remained standing and continue to run my mouth.

 

Does my butt look fat in this ego?

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Vmarco]

So, I posed a question on Dharmawheel (My link) about The Flowering Light Tantra and the response was: "Seemed incredibly odd, googled it and found it was fake. Hence, dealing with it would be a waste of time." So the information I linked to that wikispace is not accurate either.

 

According to this website with a lecture by a Bon teacher (from a Bon center in Canada,) there is no mention of the swastika as representing the ninth-consciousness or as the nine ways of Bon...Some excerpts to sum up what it really means...

 

When I have the time, I will respond to your other posts.

 

No more response necessary.

 

Again, I'm not interested in "legitimate sources", but the truth.

 

The center point of the swastika, the center point of the vajra or dorjie, all represent the Ninth level of consciousness,...the Now,...that which is beyond the alaya's. The reason "legitimate sources" don't understand this, or even discuss this, is synonymous with why today's teachers advocate strengthening the chains of bondage to beliefs. The Present (the Ninth Consciousness) upsets the logic of a Believer.

 

Dr. Stanley Sobottka, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Virginia wrote: "The teachings of teachers (gurus) who have responsibility for managing and maintaining ashrams or spiritual centers are likely to be aimed at a larger audience than those who do not, because supporting an ashram requires large amounts of volunteer effort and substantial financial commitments from the disciples. Consequently, such teachings will generally be designed for maximum acceptability. Even teachers who have only small followings, but who depend on their contributions for survival, sometimes will color their teachings to avoid losing their followers." To me, that is dishonesty.

 

That point is echoed by Dzongzar Rinpoche; who is seen as a God in Bhutan and a Buddha among his students in America. Yet he calls himself a sycophant (that is a self-seeking flatterer and fawning parasite) who always goes along with what people think. He says "if people think a teacher should shave their head, wear something maroon, walk gently, eat only vegetarian, and be so-called serene, then I'm very tempted to do that....I don't have the guts, the confidence...I'm like these police undercover cops who are sent into a Mafia family. What I'm supposed to do is really check out these people, but I fall in love with what they do, so I follow what they want....I think on both continents (Asia and North America) I have mastered the art of pretense."

 

The Art of Pretense,...that is today's "legitimate sources" to be followed, obeyed, and the ground for one's degrees and credentialism.

 

V

Edited February 19, 2012 by Vmarco

[Informer]

The Art of Pretense,...that is today's "legitimate sources" to be followed, obeyed, and the ground for one's degrees and credentialism.

 

V

 

 

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Vmarco]

I don't think it's because I can't find any sources for the information, because it is not available: It's because you're making a large part of it up. On the internet you can even find information and books on Thogal, which was once thought of as super secret and only taught to few individuals. Even wikipedia mentions thogal, on its dzogchen page.

 

 

These secrets are open secrets,...they'e right in front of you. You believe I'm making up the 9 points of the swastika, vajra, dorjie,...the Nine optic planes that manifest the holographic container within perceived life is seen. You won't go there, until you find someone to give you permission.

 

In 1899 Charles H. Duell, "Everything that can be invented has been invented." Thus when Einstein had his big year in 1905, no one would give him the time-of-day,...until three years later, Max Planck said Einstein was on to something, and only then did people give it mind.

 

Likewise, your "legitimate sources" will not lead you to the Promise Land until one of them says "look", which is highly unlikely, for they are trapped in the past. As for myself, I'm certainly appreciative that my Buddhist studies began with Mahamudra's, especially Tilopa's, and thus was better prepared to to understand the why in the holding of the ninth or center point of the swastika, vajra, or dorjie.

 

Is this my own original contribution? No.

 

It dove-tails the sutras, and makes the sutras clearer to understand. For example, overlay an understanding of the Ninth Consciousness (the Present) onto the Heart sutra, and that sutra becomes clear. Instead of seeing it through "legitimate sources" or egos point of view, you see it from the point of view of what it is pointing to.

 

Thus, as I often repeat, ego sees light moving by it at 186k mps, but from light's point of view it moves no distance in no time, and thus has no time for speed. I could use many other examples, but what would be the point, if the one used still dumbfounds the reader. The Heart sutra is how a Bodhisattva sees,...which is ultimately from light's point of view, which is the point of view of the Present or Now. There is no Present in time.

 

Your "legitimate sources" literally cling to the past for its identity,...which shows just how illegitimately those sources are interpreted.

 

Best wishes to you. This thread appears to have orienteered itself into a dead-end. Predispositions always lead to dead-ends.

 

V

Edited February 19, 2012 by Vmarco

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Informer]

Before I comment on this post, I want to state a DISCLAIMER: What I said concerning the Samdhinirmocana Sutra was incorrect basically due to a "brain fart." It teaches only of the appropriating consciousness (alaya-vijnana.) To summarize the basic message of the Samdhinirmocana Sutra: It teaches the inseparability of conventional and ultimate truths (inseparability of luminosity and emptiness.)

 

Alright now to comment on your post:

 

I'm starting to think you got the source of this "ninth-consciousness" teachings from a site talking about a Yogi C M Chen. Excerpts from an article off that website My link:

 

"The first five consciousnesses are the eye-consciousness and that of the ear,nose tongue and body which are also known as our senses

 

The sixth consciousness is equivalent to the scientific term "mind." In Theravada this is the main consciousness and contain the seventh and eighth.Thus Theravada does not admit any other consciousness.

 

The seventh consciousness, which holds the eighth consciousness as one's self is an object to be meditated away by sunyata samadhi

 

The eighth consciousness, emphasized in the Mahayana, contains all seeds, good or bad,from which the other seven types of consciousness are formed.

 

The ninth consciousness,emphasized in Tantra, contains all the virtues and potentialities of Buddhahood.When one is Fully Enlightened,this consciousness becomes the totality of wisdom WITHOUT ANY SENSE OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

Religions emphasize that there is a soul, a higher-self or spirit which is the master of a being who may descend into hell or ascend to heaven. It does not die and on it depends transmigration when it descends(in some religions) though it may unite with God when it ascends.

 

Buddhism admits this as only the eighth consciousness.Above the eighth consciousness,when it is sublimated through sublimation upon no-ego(sunyata), THERE IS NO SOUL AT ALL.

 

Thus when Buddhist say that there is no soul,it means that in Buddhahood, there is no soul but for common persons there are 'changable souls' which carry their lives wandering in transmigration.The 'soul' is the eighth consciousness, which should meditated away by sunyata samadhi to eventually become the wisdom of Buddhahood(C M Chen)"

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Concerning the part where it says "the ninth-consciousness that is emphasized in Tantra," this is what Namdrol had to say about that My link:

 

nirmal wrote: The ninth consciousness,emphasized in Tantra, contains all the virtues and potentialities of Buddhahood.When one is Fully Enlightened,this consciousness becomes the totality of wisdom WITHOUT ANY SENSE OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

 

I wouldn't put ad-lib into the quotes.

 

"In the Idealist School, it is said ones false delusions are made by the consciousness, usually through the following procedures.

 

The eighth consciousness is called the king of the consciousness from which subjectively one thinks of some Dharmas as objective. The former consciousness is subjective, the latter Dharma is objective. Human beings usually hold steadfast to the objective Dharma whether it is love or hate, but forgets that the consciousness holds only subjective views. Hence many sorrows occur."

 

IV. To Know the Consciousness Thoroughly and Distinguish Its True Nature From Its False : http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw32/bk077.html

[Informer]

One can never become fully enlightened, because for there to be one, there must be one experiencing consciousness.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited March 7, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Vmarco]

Your argument was a dead end when you started to post, thinking that someone reading this wasn't capable of using Critical Thinking Skills learned back in elementary school. Anyways, how many forums are you Trolling in order to spread your LIES?

 

The answers you're seeking are not "out there" on the internet. As it is, you are like most,...it's not "true" or real for you unless it's on the internet, or TV.

 

Perhaps part of your difficulty is assumimg that the Ninth Consciousness should be somewhat fathomable to the predispositions of your ego consciousness. The Ninth Consciousness is more like a non-consciousness,...it's the Present.

 

Similiarly, there are Nine fundamental dimensions, however, the Ninth Dimension is actually dimensionless. To uncover the Ninth Consciousness or Ninth Dimension, simply understand this,...Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha!

 

Of course, none of your "legitimate sources" will provide you with the proper definition to point you in the right direction. Regardless of your "legimate sources", Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! means, to go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, where enlightenment is welcomed.

 

Through that "non-legitimate source" the Ninth Consciousness can be understood. However, as your posts have shown,...you have no desire to understand, you merely want to be correct in your regurgitations of "legitimate sources." That's the Dead-End,...not the honest inquiry into the nature of the Present.

 

V

[JustARandomPanda]

To uncover the Ninth Consciousness or Ninth Dimension, simply understand this,...Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha!

 

I do this every night when I repeat the Heart Sutra out loud. It's a good mantra. It's one that I like quite a bit.

 

 

On a separate note:

 

Sometimes I wonder if modern society hasn't lost something when it abandoned memorizing texts for daily recitation in favor of writing.

 

A teacher can immediately correct someone who recites something incorrectly whereas an error in a text may go unnoticed for hundreds (or possibly even a thousand) of years (and thus change the meaning and interpretation of said teaching).

[Informer]

I do this every night when I repeat the Heart Sutra out loud. It's a good mantra. It's one that I like quite a bit.

 

 

On a separate note:

 

Sometimes I wonder if modern society hasn't lost something when it abandoned memorizing texts for daily recitation in favor of writing.

 

A teacher can immediately correct someone who recites something incorrectly whereas an error in a text may go unnoticed for hundreds (or possibly even a thousand) of years (and thus change the meaning and interpretation of said teaching).

 

Very good point, the variable of human error as defined by Murphy's Law "Anything that can possibly go wrong, does." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law

 

That is why it important to choose to know, rather then believe. To take everything you read with a grain of salt, then determine what you know and discard the rest that are beliefs or even accept it as unknown.

 

If something that is known conflicts with something that is unknown, does that make the unknown a belief?

Edited February 20, 2012 by Informer

[Vmarco]

I do this every night when I repeat the Heart Sutra out loud. It's a good mantra. It's one that I like quite a bit.

 

On a separate note:

 

Sometimes I wonder if modern society hasn't lost something when it abandoned memorizing texts for daily recitation in favor of writing.

 

A teacher can immediately correct someone who recites something incorrectly whereas an error in a text may go unnoticed for hundreds (or possibly even a thousand) of years (and thus change the meaning and interpretation of said teaching).

 

You can recite it within a single breath for the rest of your life,...but to understand it is the threshold to the Present is the goal. That goal cannot be realized through the accepted definition, which is an example of the ignorance of "legitimate sources."

 

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! means: to go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, where enlightenment is welcomed.

 

In the simpliest of terms, a Tathagata is one who goes and comes, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming. One who understands the reverse flow of forward moving things, and thus can enter the Present.

There is no Present in time, creation, creators, universal spirit, or alaya,...just as a fulcrum is not "in" the lever of a playground seesaw, but upon the fulcrum.

 

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! is often misinterpreted. Gate Gate are not two words saying (meaning the same thing). When used together, gate gate does not convey the same meaning as gate alone. Look at the familiar sanskrit neti,...it means 'not this',....so what does neti neti mean? Does it mean "not this, not this?' No,...neti neti means 'Not This, Not That.'

 

Gate means to Go,...but "gate gate" means "to go, to come."

 

"to go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, (Bodhi Svaha) where enlightenment is welcomed"...to go, and come back in, simultaneously with the going out,...for that is the understanding of form and emptiness necessary to see as a bodhi-sattva,...and from which bodhi is welcome. Bodhi waits only on welcome,...not "legitimate sources." Welcome does not arise from "legitimate sources."

 

To understand the Heart sutra, the essence of Nine is simultaneously understood. Form and Empty cannot be understood without Nine. Form and Empty flows within Nine optic planes.

 

If you are to recite, it's much better to hold a swastika, vajra, or dorjie at its center or ninth point while doing so.

 

V

Edited February 20, 2012 by Vmarco

[JustARandomPanda]

What science has to say about NOW

 

 

 

 

 

And the book the above talk spawned:

 

A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing

[JustARandomPanda]

and this

 

 

 

 

[Informer]

and this

 

 

 

 

I have pondered this, and think it could be because within the black-hole the matter goes the the most nearest universe, or the anti-matter universe, where it collides with the anti matter. The explosion is then guided back through the hole becoming a quasar, which is an effect of the matter colliding with anti-matter. The anti-matter universe would experience a super nova, because the hole isn't containing the explosion in that universe.

 

If a black hole formed in the anti-matter universe, when the anti-matter mass collided with mass in our universe we would see a super-nova. I think the equations aren't adding up because the calculations would need to be reversed at the threshold of the tear or rip of the fabric.

[Informer]

I think that theory would also prove how the big bang is possible. A large matter universe colliding with an anti-matter universe. Some of the matter survives, yet only in this universe.

 

Think about the mass of an object creating an indention in space/time , that indention is going to be close to the indention in the anti-matter universe. So two large "indents come in contact and you get the super nova's and quasars, depending which indention is deeper.

 

Just imagine a mirror in the animation of space time. We are only seeing the dent on this side of existence. With the mirror we can determine the speed of expansion of the underlying universes by calculating the frequencies of super nova/quasar ratios. We can determine a relative size I think. Should be about the same.

 

It also begins to explain where is all the anti-matter?

Edited February 23, 2012 by Informer

[Marblehead]

And after thinking all that we still have to remember to brush our teeth in the morning.