What Are The Fundamental Taoist Beliefs?

[Stigweard]

I have just had a new friend contact me via my website who is doing a College paper on Taoism. She is just wanting to get some clear answers on the following and I thought I would throw it amongst you good folks to get some other thoughts and perspectives:

 

1. Does Taoist believe in heaven? why?

2. Does Taoist have god? if none why? and if yes can you describe?

3. what will happen to us if we die (Taoist point of view)?

4. what are the beliefs of Taoism?

 

Cheers

[Protector]

1. Yes. It's a part of a duality.

2. No. God has Taoists.

3. Nothing.

4. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

[JustARandomPanda]

The word "Beliefs" is in the title of this thread.

 

 

[Stigweard]

LOL SB ... would you prefer "world view" or "ontology".

 

Doesn't matter

[Protector]

Still not enough to get the right picture about Taoists, questions sound kiiiiiinda like asking about a religion

[Aetherous]

3. what will happen to us if we die (Taoist point of view)?

 

I love how this question is worded.

[JustARandomPanda]

*sits back eating popcorn waiting for Twinner and VMarco to show up*

 

[mYTHmAKER]

*sits back eating popcorn waiting for Twinner and VMarco to show up*

 

 

LOL

[ChiDragon]

What kind of Taoists are you talking about...???

 

The kind of Taoists who study the philosophy in the TTC are assumed there was no god.

 

The kind of Taoists who study the TTC in a religious manner, they created many gods and believes in heaven. They worship Lao Tze as their first supreme god(太上老君).

 

A Taoist believes when he die, the soul leaves the body and become an immortal then rise to Heaven.

 

Edited February 9, 2012 by ChiDragon

[mewtwo]

I have just had a new friend contact me via my website who is doing a College paper on Taoism. She is just wanting to get some clear answers on the following and I thought I would throw it amongst you good folks to get some other thoughts and perspectives:

 

1. Does Taoist believe in heaven? why?

2. Does Taoist have god? if none why? and if yes can you describe?

3. what will happen to us if we die (Taoist point of view)?

4. what are the beliefs of Taoism?

 

Cheers

 

 

Tao is heaven but also tao is the tree.

 

yes many but all are tao

 

we go to the tao

 

many but all is tao

 

Just be content with the non-dual that is tao.

Edited February 9, 2012 by mewtwo

[Jetsun]

My understanding was that Taoists believed that space or the universe above them was the heavens so when they looked at the sky at night they were looking at the heavens and one of the purposes of cultivation was to allow the heavenly energies to come down and meet the earth energies within the body. I could be very wrong though, I expect most people will have different views on what Taoists believed.

[Birch]

Everything of Tao can be described as Shen, chi and Jing.

These are variants of the same 'thing' Tao, manifesting from the unmanifest into all there is and was and will be. Nothing is ever lost or ended. All things have their path that includes their manifestation from the unmanifest, their growth and development and decay and return to unmanifest.

[Apech]

 

 

1. Does Taoist believe in heaven? why?

2. Does Taoist have god? if none why? and if yes can you describe?

3. what will happen to us if we die (Taoist point of view)?

4. what are the beliefs of Taoism?

 

 

Ok I'm not really a Taoist in any specific sense but I'll have ago.

 

1. Heaven is a realm of pure equilibriated yang energy. It is part of the cosmos and of the order of things. As in 'man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven follows Tao, Tao follows its own nature'. If you mean heaven as in a place where you go when you die (Christian heaven well this is a different idea.) However its interesting that in a lot of languages the word sky and heaven are the same ... so heaven is part of nature like the sky.

 

2. Depends what you mean by God and what kind of Taoist you are talking to. There is no equivalent to God = Supreme being as far as I am aware. No god as a person ... although this is a big area for debate, what do we mean by person and can the function of being a person be excluded from Tao if it is absolute .....

 

3. Separation of parts of being (hun, po ... other bits ... not sure here) ... depends on level of work achieved in this life if this leads to complete dissolving back into Tao or if spiritual immortality achieved.

 

4. Beliefs is a difficult word. I'm not aware of any creed as such or emphasis on 'having to believe'. In terms of internal alchemy type practice its more a case of building confidence through actual experience. I think Christianity distorts this idea into a kind need for 'blind faith' which I have not detected in any other religion, let alone Taoism.

 

???

[JohnC]

No belief.

[mYTHmAKER]

In tune with the tao one understands constant change.

One does not Belong to a specific group / religion

One acts in accord with any particular situation.

 

Taoism as a religion is fixed and not really taoism. IMHO

There must be a taoist prayer book or two out there

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I have just had a new friend contact me via my website who is doing a College paper on Taoism. She is just wanting to get some clear answers on the following and I thought I would throw it amongst you good folks to get some other thoughts and perspectives:

 

1. Does Taoist believe in heaven? why?

2. Does Taoist have god? if none why? and if yes can you describe?

3. what will happen to us if we die (Taoist point of view)?

4. what are the beliefs of Taoism?

 

Cheers

 

Answering this is like doing puzzles, since there are so many variable factors to consider. However

 

1. In a large sense, yes, but not quite in the same way as other religions. Some people join a sort of comittee of Immortals, others become sort of omnipotent beings who can travel between stars if needed. More regular people still exist somewhere that their descendents can pray to them but I think it would be more akin to purgatory - however I really don't know much about that side of the culture.

 

2. Taoists have many gods. As Apech said, it's difficult to say whether the Tao itself can be ascribed human characteristics since it embodies all things and humans are a microcosm of the universe. From a Taoist perspective, many Christian prayers are an attempt to be in harmony with the will of God, which is not entirely different from a Taoist seeking to be in harmony with the Tao.

Further, if only asking from a popular monotheistic view, then the negative emotions that have been mythologized as part of God would not correspond to Tao; however, again, many monotheists do not view God in this way.

 

So, to answer in true Taoist style, yes and no.

 

3. That is very complicated and differs according to who you ask. I don't know enough about it to comment really, but there are similarities to the Khemetic (Ancient Egyptian) view where we have more than one soul/spirit and each does different things following departure from the physical body.

 

4. That which can be spoken is not the true Tao, therefore, all spoken truths can only be incomplete at best. Cultivate true virtuous energy within you and you will act with natural virtue. Taoism is a way to understand the humanity, nature, and the universe, so to get to all the things they understand could take lifetimes and still barely scratch the surface of the entirety. The knowledge of Taoism is ongoing so there is essentially no end to its discoveries. As things change, Taoism has more understandings to speak of.

 

Some of the ways by which Taoism understands things, however, is through five elements theory, the eight trigrams, the three treasures (J,Q,S), and yin and yang.

 

That is a start, anyways..

[Taomeow]

I've met people in the rain forest who didn't believe in Russia. Never heard of it.

 

I've met people in the United States who believe what their TV tells them to believe.

 

I've met people in China who believe there's a health disorder called "curly hair" which should be treated with herbs and acupuncture.

 

Taoists do not form their inquiry into the nature of reality in terms of beliefs because beliefs are simply beside the point. "Believe" actually means "get by on insufficient information (or information that is not obtained first hand -- hearsay)." Taoists may have information as insufficient and second-hand as everybody else, but what's different is, this state of affairs is not glorified, is not placed as the cornerstone into fundamental ideologies, cosmologies, or everyday activities. "Beliefs" you may hold or refuse to hold matter little to you... about as much as what your third grade teacher told you regarding what is or isn't important or true. I.e., yeah, whatever. Not important under the new conditions. The important part, for a taoist, is accurate assessment of the conditions and acting (or refraining from acting) accordingly. Beliefs? Who cares?..

 

This, however, means taoists operate from a platform of information unencumbered by "insufficient information carved in stone, aka beliefs," which consequently is more accurate and up-to-date than any belief (or nonbelief) driven one. They don't believe, and that's why they get it when they encounter it. Whatever "it" happens to be.

[zerostao]

I love how this question is worded.

 

and you understand it too, right!?

 

"chaos,supreme unknown,primordial, blend into wuji state"

yin-yang,5 elements, 8 trigrams,

anarchy and what i mean by this is to avoid the artificial and the structured.

for me real harmony with tao is to withdraw from the structures of society and experience the natural rythmns of the universe.

chapter 25:

there was something undifferentiated and yet complete

which existed before heaven and earth

soundless and formless, it depends on nothing and does not change.

it operates everywhere and is free from danger

it may be considered the mother of the universe.

i do not know its name and call it Tao.

 

all of nature has inherrent harmony and balance in natural process.

the greatest human good is to be in harmony with the Tao

people do not get into harmony with Tao by following structured rules or propriety

but rather by wuwei. wuwei is after all how nature itself operates.

passively, quietly, and in natural rythmn.

trees gro, rivers flow, winter turns to spring.

we should follow these patterns of no action and non striving.

to find harmony and to flow with Tao withdraw from the rat race.

 

the softest overcomes the hardest. do not use violence or agression do not seek reward

and status. live spontaneously and without rules or plans. stay in equanimity.

be free.

 

chp 16

one with nature , he is one with Tao, one with Tao he is eternal and free from danger

thru-out all his life

 

Tao encompasses all forms of existence without distinctions or dualities

to be in tune with Tao is to transcend ordinary judgements and emotions

to attain absolute happiness then understand the real nature of things

be like Tao and embrace all things

this is a process of change and transformation.

do not react to these changes with pain or pleasure

accept them as a natural process and be in harmony with them

 

read chp 6

 

living with Tao frees one from the limitations imposed upon by the normal conforming conventional life

doesnt chuang tzu tell us of many miraculous transcendences we could acheive?

 

Qi is the primordial breath which comes from Tao

 

i have never read anything but lao tzu , chuang tzu, the nei-yeh, and the I Ching

so maybe i am limited in my perspective

 

and the only thing i can say about belief is

whatever your excuse is or has been -stop believing it

Edited February 10, 2012 by zerostao

[Walker]

In China I am often asked, "do you believe in Dao? Do you believe in the Buddha?" 你信道吗?你信佛吗? The character used in this sentence for "believe" is 信, xin4, which consists of an ideograph of a person (人) and the word for words/speech/to talk (言). If one understands 信 to depict "what people say," then "believing" in Dao would seem to be an act contrary to the strong statement made in the first lines of the Daodejing.

 

One of my teachers has said, "Daoists are interested in real knowledge," so replying that I don't believe does not amount to a negation of notions of the subtle found throughout Daoist (and Buddhist) discourse. I would say it is instead closer to being open-minded, detached, innocent, simple, and not-(yet)-gnostic.

 

Nevertheless, as I have been told by more than one Daoist, it is of real value for practitioners to have faith.

[Taomeow]

In China I am often asked, "do you believe in Dao? Do you believe in the Buddha?" 你信道吗?你信佛吗? The character used in this sentence for "believe" is 信, xin4, which consists of an ideograph of a person (人) and the word for words/speech/to talk (言). If one understands 信 to depict "what people say," then "believing" in Dao would seem to be an act contrary to the strong statement made in the first lines of the Daodejing.

 

One of my teachers has said, "Daoists are interested in real knowledge," so replying that I don't believe does not amount to a negation of notions of the subtle found throughout Daoist (and Buddhist) discourse. I would say it is instead closer to being open-minded, detached, innocent, simple, and not-(yet)-gnostic.

 

Nevertheless, as I have been told by more than one Daoist, it is of real value for practitioners to have faith.

 

I quite agree.

 

There's a difference between "belief" and "faith" (despite erroneous interchangeable use in common parlance) and they are in fact opposite approaches. "Belief" does rely on 信, "what people say to me." Faith relies on "what I say to myself." So "faith," unlike "belief," is not removed from "co-creation." Co-creation is the way a taoist interacts with tao, learning her pattern and her power and aiming to "ti," embody, become part of that, become that. This requires cultivation, practice, and "faith." "Belief," on the other hand, is the way to forfeit one's own creative power to someone else in its entirety.

 

In other words, the goal of "faith" is freedom, the goal of "belief" is enslavement. They are as ill-fitted to go together as "octopus milk" or "vitriolic frolic.

[Stigweard]

Hiya, thanks to the folks who gave the topic sincere consideration and shared their understanding. I have published my response on my site:

 

http://www.tai-chi-wizard.com/taoism-beliefs.html

 

[mYTHmAKER]

Hiya, thanks to the folks who gave the topic sincere consideration and shared their understanding. I have published my response on my site:

 

http://www.tai-chi-w...sm-beliefs.html

 

 

Good article. She'll get an A on her paper for sure

[RyanO]

Hiya, thanks to the folks who gave the topic sincere consideration and shared their understanding. I have published my response on my site:

 

http://www.tai-chi-wizard.com/taoism-beliefs.html

 

 

Yes great article!

 

I think the Which Taoism part is important especially. Philosophical and Western Taoism is very different from a more traditional religious Taoism. And of course there is everything in between.

 

It is important to note that in China Taoism is closely intermingled with Chinese Folk Religion (Shenism) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion and Chinese culture and philosophy in general.

 

So separating the bits and distilling an 'essential' Taoism is not such a black and white enterprise.

Edited February 11, 2012 by RyanO

[Stigweard]

Hiya MythMaker and Ryano,

 

Cheers for your encouragement. I have asked the lass to send me a copy of her paper. It would be very interesting to see what she makes of it.