Interesting book on Russian Breath work

[DanC]

Found this title while browsing the web, looks very interesting, I think I might have to

check this one out.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Breath-Secrets-Russi...TF8&s=books

 

Also check out

 

http://www.leteverybreath.com/

 

Daniel

Edited October 27, 2006 by DanC

[Pero]

A friend of mine bought it, and I glanced through it a bit. It looked pretty good. Nothing complex. It looks like it`s worth buying. When I get through other stuff (if that`s possible lol) I`ll borrow it to read it.

[rex]

Found this on the web:

 

The Seven Principles of Systema Breathing

 

I've been taught by Vlad and Mikhail that there are 7 essential principles of Systema breathing. Many of you have heard these in classes and seminars and the newer training tapes. This is just a listing for convenience.

 

1. Pathway:

 

Inhale through nose; exhale through mouth.

 

2. Leading:

 

Let breath slightly lead physical action in time.

 

3. Sufficiency:

 

Take as much breath as you need at the moment, for the action, not more not less.

 

4. Continuity:

 

Keep breathing, without interruption or holding, no matter what you are doing (unless doing a special breath-hold training)

 

5. Pendulum:

 

Let every breath cycle complete itself and reverse naturally, as a pendulum swings and reverses naturally without interference. Allow, and experience, the reversal pause at the end of each cycle.

 

6. Independence:

 

No specific type of action is invariantly tied to any particular phase of breath cycle (i.e. you should be able to punch or roll as well on inhale as exhale).

 

7. No tension:

 

Keep your muscles and your body overall relaxed.

 

The book's a good read with progressive exercises for breathing under increasingly strenuous activity and advocates whole body breathing in and out through the skin pores for physical and mental well being.

[三江源]

Rex, do you have any idea how much whole body breathing is reccommended and why? I know it's a good chi cleansing thing to do,I love doing it around trees and the sea, etc, but I've never particularly thought of it as having much to do with your regular lung breathing activity.

[rex]

Amazingly enough Cat we not only breathe with our lungs but also through our skin at the same time. This was brought home tragically by a mardi gras performer who suffocated in their sleep after going to bed still covered from head to toe in body paint. Now performers leave a small patch of skin at the base of the spine to allow the body to breathe completely. I also believe they had to do this for the Bond girl in Goldfinger when she was covered in gold paint.

 

Whole body breathing is recommended all the time to get an experiential appreciation of breathing as a profund physiological process affecting all bodily systems. Being relaxed and aware of tension and expelling it through the pores is seen as the first step of gaining control of the autonomic system. Progressive exercises of breathing utilizing tension and physiological duress aim to get the practitioner to operate optimally under extreme external stress.

Edited January 12, 2007 by rex

[三江源]

hi rex,

my question was about conscious whole body breathing. taoist style. chi whole body breathing. I'm sorry I wasnt clear.

 

Interestingly, I think just asking this question has prompted me to do it more, not just around nature, but as an everyday excercise. I dont much want to do whole body breathing around traffic and pollution - yes I know I'm doing it anyway, in the sense of the gold- body- paint- death breathing, but I think conscious whole body breathing is different, somehow.

 

 

Does this book suggest that we do whole body breathing as in the taoist sense of breathing chi in and out of our pores and being sensorily aware of it?

 

I am fascinated by whole body breathing, and I wonder how much a part our lungs have actually to play actually in breathing, or if we could breathe in a supplementary way, if need be.

 

I guess I need to get hold of this book.. when I checked UK amazon, it doesnt appear to exist though.

[Starjumper]

I see you guys are aware of Russian Systema here, have there been discussions about the Systema martial art?

[Peregrino]

I see you guys are aware of Russian Systema here, have there been discussions about the Systema martial art?

 

 

I hadn't heard of Systema before, but the more I learn about Russian/former Soviet-bloc training methods, both external and internal, the more impressed I am! I'm so glad that people like Scott Sonnon, Pavel, and Kurz are making various aspects of this legacy (and ongoing research) better known to the wider world.

 

It's also interesting to me to note how many Eastern Europeans now dominate mixed martial arts and pro boxing (however much MMA has eclipsed the latter). I think I'll have to bypass both California and Brazil and instead relocate to Russia to train for my imminent MMA world title, har har har!

 

Actually, when I begin to have something approaching a sane schedule again, I do want to train for tournaments in the Spanish national grappling league--ADCC style. I intend to keep incorporating Eastern Euro training methods like those Kurz outlines in his book, _The Science of Sports Training_.

 

Na zdorovye!

Peregrino

[Ryan McCoole]

Hey Hey fellow Tao bums,

 

I have been taking Russian Systema classes for the past year with an instructor trained personally by Vladimir Vasiliev, the author of "Let every Breath..." a real good read if you every get the chance (my instructor ordered it for me). I also practice Qi-gong and full body breathing every morning.

 

Russian Systema is as much about breathing as it is about martial arts and self defense (actually russian Syatems is not in competitions or tournaments, as the System taught is used to protect and defend only and using all means...it is amazing when you train that you learn what can be used against people that pose a threat to you or your loved ones.)

 

I am curious though what your thoughts are on this: Let Every Breath places full emphasis on the breath and full body breathing (like breathing the pain out of injured areas and for better circulation, and does NOT reconize the belief in Qi (chi) or any other essense that is an addition to our everyday biological processes.

 

Now, I practive Zhan Zhaung Qi_Gong every morning, so I myself happen to believe that I access the inner power dormant inside of me, this Qi, and bring my Shen in the here and now.

 

So, what are your thoughts? Are systems like Systema on the right track, or do the Syatema Masters (like Vladimir) access Qi without calling it that? Or are all paths leading up the same mountain and we really walk in unison with different names?

 

Be well,

 

 

-Ryan McCoole-

[DanC]

After getting the book I was a bit disapointed, it some good applications but it was very

different from Qigong/Yoga techniques.

[rex]

Hi Cat,

 

Yes the book suggests conscious whole body breathing, or at least some sort of sense of it, all the time whenever practicable. But beyond awareness of breath and its relation to subjective physiological/emotional states any similarity to taoist methods ends. As Ryan mentions Systema breathing doesn't adhere to taoist energy maps of the body or to the concept of chi but simply to experiencing the physiological reality of the breath and how breathing patterns affects our capacity to respond.

 

Funny you mention about breathing in a supplementary way. The book also describes very simply Eastern Orthodox methods of prayer using breath retention. Perhaps not quite what you meant but there do seem to be some hints on the methods of the Eastern Orthodox monks and their capacity for physical austerity.

 

If Amazon hasn't got it try here: http://www.cuttingedgeshop.com/acatalog/SYSTEMA_.html

 

Ryan personally I think that Systema breathing and Chi Kung are different sides of the same mountain and see no inherent incompatibility. Both acknowledge the interdependence and symbiosis existing between breath, awareness and spirit but have different explanations of the mechanics, one physiological the other esoteric. However Systema Masters also have a deep Eastern Orthodox faith which informs their art as well ...

 

[gendao]

Amazingly enough Cat we not only breathe with our lungs but also through our skin at the same time. This was brought home tragically by a mardi gras performer who suffocated in their sleep after going to bed still covered from head to toe in body paint. Now performers leave a small patch of skin at the base of the spine to allow the body to breathe completely.

WOW, that's quite amazing!

 

Anyhow, these Systema punches (4:27) seem a lot like internal "lin kong jing" punches.

[rex]

WOW, that's quite amazing!

The amazing and mysterious body - eh?

Anyhow, these Systema punches (4:27) seem a lot like internal "lin kong jing" punches.

Not too sure as Systema doesn't appear to recognise chi. Could be something like a Derren Brown hypnotic influence type of thing. There was a segment in one of his shows when he went to a boxing gym and made some of the boxers go all weak. He did this to some wing chun practitioners too. Edited October 28, 2007 by rex

[gendao]

Another cool

vid demoing soft hits...

 

Still don't understand how they do this??

[Procurator]

Another cool

vid demoing soft hits...

 

Still don't understand how they do this??

two words: con game.

[三江源]

Another cool

vid demoing soft hits...

 

Still don't understand how they do this??

.

 

It is amazing, isnt it. I wish I could understand what the guy is saying.

 

I guess Ryan McCoole could enlighten us as to what it's all about.

 

In response to your wondering Ryan, in your previous post, my own supposition is that it simply is of no account wether we 'believe' in what is called 'chi', or if we dont believe in it, or if we call it some other name or have a very provisional explanation of it which reflects our own need to 'know' ie to make up stories that satisfy our minds...

 

I think the experience of it, once it IS experienced, is undeniable, and that 'breath leads chi' as 'intention leads chi' and that in fact there is no division between breath, intention and chi, and that training in such methods as you do, raises one's awareness and control of this basic 'pneuma'..

 

Ryan it would be great to hear more from you, if you are around.

[freeform]

I wish I could understand what the guy is saying.

 

Here comes a rather shoddy translation

 

the guy in the red t shirt is punching away while both of the other guys urge him to use his full strength. then the main guy in the black t shirt demonstrates the normal punches and says that if you're hitting with tension the force doesn't get inside the body... he goes on to explain that when you're completely relaxed the force goes in easier. when he starts demonstrating it slowly, he explains that you must feel the feeling of your fist punching through or penetrating... "the speed of the hit wont affect the speed of his fall" - so it's your choice (he's showing off now ) - he explains that the feeling of punching through is transferred to the target, and in this way you can also mess with his balance... "he can try to tense up as a defence" (and thats when he pokes him in the neck and the guy gives out a loud yelp, whilst someone in the crowd giggles)... anyway - can't be bothered to translate the rest - but for me the most interesting part is that he explains that the feeling of what you want is transferred to the target...

 

Cat - you know about pacing and leading - this is a very subtle form of that (there is also a micro induction there if you can spot it )

 

also, see Peter Ralston - he explains this stuff kind of similarly...

[三江源]

AH! Great, I'm grateful. Thankyou Freeform.

 

I'm just now looking up the Ralston stuff.

 

 

(Why O Why arent I an NLP master?!!! I could rule the world.....mwah ha ha ha.)

 

 

I would like to know what benefits you have reaped from learning NLP, Freeform. Do you actually use it, other than as a tool for understanding?

 

I noticed that the guy who used to run HT London now teaches NLP, btw. Alongside as his taoist based things.

 

Quite curious to know about in what ways he's applying the discipline.

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[gendao]

Cat - you know about pacing and leading - this is a very subtle form of that (there is also a micro induction there if you can spot it )

 

also, see Peter Ralston - he explains this stuff kind of similarly...

So, are you saying this is more of a "hypnotic" (vs physical) technique that might not work so well in the field against unwilling opponents?

 

Also, how did Peter Ralston explain it?

 

And, do you think you could demo this skill, then?

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform