Waysun Lao

[thaddeus]

My results: the electrical shock feeling in my hands, increased sensitivity in my hands generally. The further I get away from my hands, the harder it is, but I think this is a matter of practice.

...

It's funny because I've also been practicing Bodri's skeleton meditation after my usual sitting so I can get more in touch with my bones. Bodri states that focusing on the skeleton is a way to build up your jing; Master Liao writes that this technique converts chi into jing.

Actually that was one of my questions..we alluded to this before..alot of masters are able to generate an electric shock from their touch..Koichi Tohei was one..do you think bone breathing would lead one to have this ability..to extend the electricity that is felt inside to the outside..I feel some kind of piezoelectric effect must be going on and building up.

The building up of Jing is also very interesting..Does Bodri base that on anything? Does he say anything about ejaculation affecting that at all?

Thanks!

[Wanderer]

Third, one should not mix Gary Clyman in with Waysun Liao. There is no record of him having ever attended or studied at Master Liao's school.

 

Dude, Gary admits having studied with Sifu Liao himself!

[forestofsouls]

Dude, Gary admits having studied with Sifu Liao himself!

 

I mean from Master Liao's side. Call the Tai Chi Tao center and ask.

[forestofsouls]

Actually that was one of my questions..we alluded to this before..alot of masters are able to generate an electric shock from their touch..Koichi Tohei was one..do you think bone breathing would lead one to have this ability..to extend the electricity that is felt inside to the outside..I feel some kind of piezoelectric effect must be going on and building up.

The building up of Jing is also very interesting..Does Bodri base that on anything? Does he say anything about ejaculation affecting that at all?

Thanks!

Carlos

 

I don't know if it would give the ability to discharge an objective electric shock that anyone can feel. When I first started with my teacher, I didn't feel anything. He could still shove me around, but I didn't feel very much by way of chi sensations. Now I feel the sensations (and of course, he can still shove around). I think his output is the same, but it feels different.

 

A few people have suggested that Robert Peng has the objective ability, but I don't know. Perhaps some one has dealt with him directly?

 

Bodri writes that ejaculation diminishes your jing. He's very clear on that. Go to his website and go to the page where he's selling his biggest course. There's a link that lets you download (for free) a chapter from his course, "Gong-fu Transfomations" and he talks in depth about it there.

 

For you slackers: Bodri's Link

Edited November 3, 2006 by forestofsouls

[Buddy]

Liao's stuff is certainly white crane. You may like it, fine. but it's white crane wine in a CMC bottle.

[forestofsouls]

Liao's stuff is certainly white crane. You may like it, fine. but it's white crane wine in a CMC bottle.

 

These white crane guys must have gotten to Darin's teacher, and his teacher's teacher too.

 

Maybe Tai Chi and White Crane just have some things in common.

 

BTW: of all the students I've seen at the Tai Chi Tao Center, none of them appear to be psychotic meglomaniacs. I do know that practicing anything for two hours a day would probably fall outside the realm of "not too much, not too little."

[Buddy]

Don't know of darrin, but I know of WC.

[Taiji Bum]

Don't know of darrin, but I know of WC.

Dont know of Darin? He's the good looking bald guy. Amazing taijiquan ability and a source of profound wisdom! Wonderful person.

[Buddy]

Glasses? Humble as the day is long? I think I know who you mean.

[evZENy]

Similarly to forestofsouls I study in Master Liao's school.

 

He has given quite reasonable answers - I can just sign behind them. And try to bring even more objective balance to the topic.

 

Also to the original question - master Liao warns in his book that not only this practice, but many practices at lower levels SHOULD NOT be done without proper supervision.

 

It is true, that just because someone writes a book it doesn't make him an expert. Even when he writes few books, which is the case with Master Liao. It is the acceptance of the book by the peers and its effect on the lay men, that the person should be judged by. And you may guess I don't say that without a reason :-)

I dare say we are all lay men here (a sage won't waste his time chatting in a forum ? :-). And I can see his books have had an effect, though different in different people. Which is normal and to be expected.

 

Similarly, while the center is in Illinois, Master Liao is often invited and travels not only the US, but around the world to teach. And his book has been translated in quite few languages. Read this in any way you are biased to :-)

 

On the single hand form approach. I happen to have studied the system of William C.C. Chen, have his book etc. Never have been taught or seen him or anyone from his school mentioning it.

And yes, other people may use the concept, which does not mean they understand it. The same way I use airplanes or my PC in the moment :-)

 

And yes, please don't put the "=" sign when you mention Liao and Clyman in one sentence.

I admit I studied with Bruce Lee, OK ? :-). And even if I had, that won't mean what I "teach" has anything to do with what Bruce Lee taught or he would have aproved it, right ? :-)

 

On the White Crane discussions - just a smile, guys. Want to keep the good tone and sense of humour, expected by the people of the Tao :-)

Send Master Liao an e-mail and ask him, if you are so curious about it and his background.

 

Have a good NOW!

Edited April 6, 2007 by evZENy

[Spectrum]

White crane and Snake are both a part of Yang Tai Chi system that CMC degenerated by reducing it to the americanized 37; an abbreviated version of the 3rd section of the original 108.

 

Just my penny of thought.

 

You can find references to many Chinese animals and myths in the most unsuspecting places. There are times that I have focused only on how the crane would perform the 108, and other times on how the snake would perform it. Wonderfully juxtaposed personalities of movement.

 

Spectrum

 

PS- Bruce Lee was a fu'ster. He was anti system. Pro consciousness expansion, and all Kung Fu! Bruce was learning classical systems before he broke his molds w/ Jeet Kune Do.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Spectrum

[mYTHmAKER]

evZENy since both you and forestofsouls study in Master Liao's school I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Below is a question I sent to Wayson Laos site. I never received an answer.

Thanks

 

Hello Webmaster.

Could you please forward this to Waysun Liao

 

Dear Waysun Liao,

I am reading your book T'AI CHI classics and find it most interesting and informative.

I have a question regarding the tongue position.

In generating ch'i you say to roll the tongue upward toward the back of the mouth.

The would mean the underside of the tongue is touching the roof of your mouth.

Is this correct?

While playing the form you say the tongue is rolled back touching the upper palate.

Would this mean the underside of the tongue is touching your palate?

Is the tongue position the same in both cases?

I have always been under the impression that the top of the tongue touches the palate

just behind the teeth.

 

Please explain.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[forestofsouls]

 

While playing the form you say the tongue is rolled back touching the upper palate.

Would this mean the underside of the tongue is touching your palate?

Is the tongue position the same in both cases?

I have always been under the impression that the top of the tongue touches the palate

just behind the teeth.

 

The top of the tongue touches the bottom of the roof of the mouth, like when you're making a clicking sound with your tongue. The word "curled up" is better than "rolled up". I usually put it further back than the teeth. The point is to complete the inner circuit.

 

White crane and Snake are both a part of Yang Tai Chi system that CMC degenerated by reducing it to the americanized 37; an abbreviated version of the 3rd section of the original 108.

 

But isn't tai chi based on 13 postures to begin with?

[Spectrum]

The top of the tongue touches the bottom of the roof of the mouth, like when you're making a clicking sound with your tongue. The word "curled up" is better than "rolled up". I usually put it further back than the teeth. The point is to complete the inner circuit.

 

What relationship do these tongue positions have with the breath? Does the tongue play a regulatory role for air flow?

 

But isn't tai chi based on 13 postures to begin with?

 

.. all various expressions of wuji...

 

13 5 3 1 0

 

Sounds like Lost.

 

Quite a puzzle how many different ways the 13 connect in between spaces.

 

A Publius Enigma.

 

It's not just a matter of space, but also of time.

 

Leaving out the connective threads only loosely binds the seams.

 

Spectrum

[mYTHmAKER]

The top of the tongue touches the bottom of the roof of the mouth, like when you're making a clicking sound with your tongue. The word "curled up" is better than "rolled up". I usually put it further back than the teeth. The point is to complete the inner circuit.

But isn't tai chi based on 13 postures to begin with?

 

Yes that's what I do. It is slightly back of the teeth - natural.

I thought he was on to something.

Rolling the tongue makes the bottom of the tongue touch the roof of the mouth which doesn't feel right.

He should change it for the next printing.

[evZENy]

evZENy since both you and forestofsouls study in Master Liao's school I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Below is a question I sent to Wayson Laos site. I never received an answer.

 

mYTHmAKER,

to add to forestofsoul. The closing of the orbit with the tongue is quite important as can be seen in most of the teachings discussing energy cultivation and circulation.

For me the best way to do it is move the tongue back and forth until it gets the sensation of connecting the energy flow coming from the Governor channel into the Functional channel.

I recently had to learn a lot about the structure of the mouth and throat (related to the science of sleep).

For example I used to suck my thumb till I was 9 years old. And my palete is very high.

Depends whether you were breastfed or not, your genes etc., you will have different shape and size of the mouth cave and tongue. So for me, the point is significantly high and back. Lifting my tongue it is rolled and touches indeed with the underside of the tip.

I've seen it described this way by other systems as well (e.g. Mantak Chia)

I've tried to search behind the teeth, but dont get the flow, so I go where I find it :-)

[mYTHmAKER]

Lifting my tongue it is rolled and touches indeed with the underside of the tip.

I've seen it described this way by other systems as well (e.g. Mantak Chia)

 

Agreed it should be natural.

This was the first time I had ever heard it described this way with the

underside rather than the top of the tongue touching the palette.

Thanks for the info

[yuanqi]

Agreed it should be natural.

This was the first time I had ever heard it described this way with the

underside rather than the top of the tongue touching the palette.

Thanks for the info

 

 

one thing that is often overlooked is that there are different tongue positions for what you are trying to accomplish. for instance:

 

1. wood position-tongue is placed on the middle of the upper palate right at the center of the roof of the mouth.

2. fire position-tongue is placed on the front of the upper palate right behind the teeth and gum line.

3. earth position-tongue is placed on the bottom of the jaw at the base of the lower palate beneath the teeth and gum line.

4. metal position-tongue is placed behind the teeth (not resting) where the top teeth meet the bottom with mouth closed. proper term would be b/w the maxilla and mandible bones.

5. water position-tongue is placed on the soft palate at the back of the upper palate.

 

so if you are using a fire technique such as the microcosmic orbit up the du channel and down the ren you would place at the fire position. if using the water technique then you would use the water position and so on. however it gets alot more complicated than that. for instance lets say you have created too much internal heat while doing your meditations (due to improper dispersing techniques among other things) then you may change the tongue position and perhaps the meditation. but sometimes even this isnt written in stone based on your body's constitution. or when emitting qi for healing purposes you also would use hand mudras for the organ system you are working on as well as color visualization and the proper tongue position from above. the basic tongue positions are really just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited April 13, 2007 by yuanqi

[mYTHmAKER]

one thing that is often overlooked is that there are different tongue positions for what you are trying to accomplish. for instance:

 

1. wood position-tongue is placed on the middle of the upper palate right at the center of the roof of the mouth.

2. fire position-tongue is placed on the front of the upper palate right behind the teeth and gum line.

3. earth position-tongue is placed on the bottom of the jaw at the base of the lower palate beneath the teeth and gum line.

4. metal position-tongue is placed behind the teeth (not resting) where the top teeth meet the bottom with mouth closed. proper term would be b/w the maxilla and mandible bones.

5. water position-tongue is placed on the soft palate at the back of the upper palate.

 

so if you are using a fire technique such as the microcosmic orbit up the du channel and down the ren you would place at the fire position. if using the water technique then you would use the water position and so on. however it gets alot more complicated than that. for instance lets say you have created too much internal heat while doing your meditations (due to improper dispersing techniques among other things) then you may change the tongue position and perhaps the meditation. but sometimes even this isnt written in stone based on your body's constitution. or when emitting qi for healing purposes you also would use hand mudras for the organ system you are working on as well as color visualization and the proper tongue position from above. the basic tongue positions are really just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Very interesting. What is your source. Is there a book.

[yuanqi]

Very interesting. What is your source. Is there a book.

 

 

i learned some of what i know from a friend in nashville that uses different types of breathing techniques, qigong and medical qigong, since then i have also had them confirmed buy some of the instructors and others at my school. our school has not only TCM doctors but also martial artist, one of which studied and became a disciple of Master Ho Kam Ming, who was one of the caretakers and senior disciples of Yip Man, he teaches qigong and wing chun at the school. we also have the 2004 Tai Qi 24-Form champion, that was held in Taipei, Taiwan which is where she is from, she teaches the required tai qi courses at the school and knows alot about the proper practicing techniques plus qigong etc. we also are affiliated with Master Yun Xiang Tseng originally from Mt. Wudang. he comes and teaches seminars and such at the school etc. so the right stuff is there believe me. its out there too, i have alot of books in my library at home, i will have to go thru them and find the ones with the tongue pics and techniques. when i come across them i will post the titles for ya.

[Taiji Bum]

I have had some spontaneous tongue curlings during meditation. It started with an involuntary inhale, the stomach sucking in, then the tongue curled back. After that energy poured up my spine and down my front like the micro orbit. There was also the sensation of flying upwards. The whole thing felt electrical.

 

Since questions are being answered I have one. I've done my whole body and had my dan tien send out pulses of electricty stuff to my entire body like being jabbed with a cattle prod. After you've done the bone-breathing and you get the electrical shock, does the shock mean you have just converted the chi to jing, you built up too much jing and expended it or what?

[Spectrum]

I have had some spontaneous tongue curlings during meditation. It started with an involuntary inhale, the stomach sucking in, then the tongue curled back.

 

You've got it right Darin. I traveled around the world to learn what you partially describe here.

 

You note the vacuum you experienced from the expansion of the lower dan tien, this action acts as an effortless action of the inhalation that is regulated as the tongue flaps to the roof of the mouth. This way there is balance between action and inaction even in the breathing cycle. The top part of the inhalation and the bottom part of the exhalation being the two parts of the cycle that are active, the other two being passive. Of coarse you could further subdivide to talk about it, but ultimately it's just one breath, one move.

 

Condensation breathing. When breathing w/ the whole body standing is joy. Breath through the pores.

 

in:heng:out:ha:

 

Spectrum

Edited April 14, 2007 by Spectrum

[acudoc]

Hi everyone. Three things:

 

1. Can anyone recommend a good teacher in Chicago? Is there a student of Master Liao's that someone has studied with?

 

2. "Jing" as described in Liao's book and in these posts should be romanized as "Jin" or "internal power" 劲 and shouldn't be confused with Jing or essence 精 which is what is lost with ejaculation.

 

3. Many Yang style taiji masters in Taiwan mid-century were also exposed to white crane and vice-versa. So it is no revelation or controversy that Liao or Jwing Ming teach white crane techniques as part of their Taiji curriculum.

[林愛偉]

Hi everyone. Three things:

 

1. Can anyone recommend a good teacher in Chicago? Is there a student of Master Liao's that someone has studied with?

 

2. "Jing" as described in Liao's book and in these posts should be romanized as "Jin" or "internal power" 劲 and shouldn't be confused with Jing or essence 精 which is what is lost with ejaculation.

 

3. Many Yang style taiji masters in Taiwan mid-century were also exposed to white crane and vice-versa. So it is no revelation or controversy that Liao or Jwing Ming teach white crane techniques as part of their Taiji curriculum.

 

 

Waysun Liao's Taiji Quan Classics book is really good for a guidebook. I like it, and have read it many times in my younger years of Taiji Quan practice.

 

Peace,

Lin