Is anything truly Ineffable?

[gatito]

Hehehe. I know that when I go to sleep I am no longer conscious. (I rarely dream.)

 

Hold that one for a while, we'll come back to it later, if you stay the distance . That one's a bit further down the line.

 

 

No, there is no way, without scientific instruments, of measuring consciousness. It just is. (A result of the brain's processes, of course.

 

How do you know (from first-hand experience) that Consciousness is as a result of the brains processes?

[GrandmasterP]

There now that feels much better.

Lawks I do hate being at work.

[gatito]

Spot on bro.

Anybody takes a smidgen of notice of some tw*t wearing their collar back to front, or shaven headed in orange frocks etc etc is wasting their time, full stop.

It's a con and a sham is religion, all of it, without exception and those who make any sort of living from peddling religion to gullible fools are amongst, if not the; lowest scum of the earth.

 

No. That's far too extreme.

[Marblehead]

Nope - the point is that everyone has their own Mk 1 Consciousness Measurer and relying on anyone else's Mk 1 Consciousness Measurer is religion rather than experiential self-knowledge.

Okay. I now see where you were coming from with that.

 

No, I don't need you to know that I exist. In fact, I existed before you were born.

[gatito]

But my beliefs are based in fact as I presently understand them. Facts change over time as we learn new knowledge.

 

There is a vast difference between my belief systems, based in fact as I currently understand them, and a belief system that is based in illusion and delusion.

 

I will add here that I have never suggested to anyone that they should give up their beliefs that are based in illusion and delusion and accept mine as the only truth.

 

My beliefs are my truths. Your, or anyone else's, beliefs are yours or their truths.

 

When I prepare to sit in my chair I always believe that it exists and is not an illusion. I have never hit the floor once. I think that's a good belief.

 

I was raised to believe in a god. Where is god? I couldn't find one. Therefore I do not believe in any gods (or devils).

 

Where's your evidence that God (the Tao) does not exist?

[GrandmasterP]

There can be none.

Hence it does.

[gatito]

There can be none.

Hence it does.

 

No. That's not right either is it?

[GrandmasterP]

Where's your evidence that God (the Tao) does not exist?

Where's your evidence that God (the Tao) does not exist?

.....

This is just too easy.

Sit up and pay attention at the back there!

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the Tao.

We are not speaking about the Tao...

for it cannot be spoken.

And in that sublime stillness and silence.......

a squirrel clears her throat.

 

 

No charge for the tutorial.

Edited November 15, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[gatito]

.....

This is just too easy.

Sit up and pay attention at te back there!

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not te tao.

We are not speaking about the tao

As it cannot be spoken.

In that submlime stillness and silence

Tao is.

 

No charge for the tutorial.

 

Thank you and goodbye,

[gatito]

Now MH - before we were so rudely interrupted, where were we?

[GrandmasterP]

Edited November 15, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Hold that one for a while, we'll come back to it later, if you stay the distance . That one's a bit further down the line.

 

I'll be here. I'm not known for leaving a discussion just because I was unable to properly answer a question (or just because someone disagreed with me).

 

How do you know (from first-hand experience) that Consciousness is as a result of the brains processes?

 

I have to rely on scientific fact for this one. Brain-dead people are not conscious. Did you know that there are some animals that do not have a brain but they have consciousness none-the-less? They have mini-brains at different areas along their nervous system.

 

From first-hand experience I have no knowledge other than the knowledge I have learned (Yes, learning is an experience) from others who have possessed that knowledge. And, as it seemed logical to me, I have accepted it as a truth.

 

One thing I know for sure, I have no little imp on my shoulder force feeding me consciousness.

[gatito]

 

I'll be here. I'm not known for leaving a discussion just because I was unable to properly answer a question (or just because someone disagreed with me).

 

Now, now - I know that I was a bit hard on you but I knew that you could take it.

 

 

I have to rely on scientific fact for this one. Brain-dead people are not conscious. Did you know that there are some animals that do not have a brain but they have consciousness none-the-less? They have mini-brains at different areas along their nervous system.

 

From first-hand experience I have no knowledge other than the knowledge I have learned (Yes, learning is an experience) from others who have possessed that knowledge. And, as it seemed logical to me, I have accepted it as a truth.

 

One thing I know for sure, I have no little imp on my shoulder force feeding me consciousness.

 

OK. Now here's where it starts to get tricky!!

 

FIRST-HAND Knowledge - not belief!!!!

 

Have you ever experienced death yourself?

[Marblehead]

Where's your evidence that God (the Tao) does not exist?

There is a total absence of evidence. There is no evidence whatever that any type of god, spirit, or ghost, or even vampires exist. My pegacorn does not really exist either. But I can imagine it to exist. And yes, other people can imagine a god to exist. But that is only their imagination.

[GrandmasterP]

Interesting post MH.

I believe and teach that we actually learn and apply a bit more than we are ever taught by someone else.

We do that by making linkages and connections between the information and then coming up with something uniquely new 'to us' as and when needed.

Now that's NOT everybody who does that but a fair few and not necessarily the 'brightest' either.

Think of 'idiot savants' for example.

If you learn how to problem solve then solving problems is easier to you than to someone who hasn't learnt the trick. Irrespective of the problem a 'problem solver' will be better at sorting it out than a drone.

[Marblehead]

Now MH - before we were so rudely interrupted, where were we?

Hehehe. I just made another post I would really expect you to challenge.

[gatito]

There is a total absence of evidence. There is no evidence whatever that any type of god, spirit, or ghost, or even vampires exist. My pegacorn does not really exist either. But I can imagine it to exist. And yes, other people can imagine a god to exist. But that is only their imagination.

 

Spot on.

 

No evidence that S/he/It doesn't exist - so why believe that S/he/It doesn't?

 

We're only going on your own direct experience. No books. No teachers. No preachers.

[Marblehead]

Have you ever experienced death yourself?

Never death. Near death three times. No, I didn't see any tunnel or bright light. On one of the occasions I saw a loaded and unlocked M-15 pointed at my chest at close range. That will scare the pee out of you!

[gatito]

Hehehe. I just made another post I would really expect you to challenge.

 

No MH

 

If you're interested, I'll pursue one thing at a time with you.

[gatito]

Never death. Near death three times. No, I didn't see any tunnel or bright light. On one of the occasions I saw a loaded and unlocked M-15 pointed at my chest at close range. That will scare the pee out of you!

 

So no evidence that Consciousness ends at the death of the physical body?

[Marblehead]

Spot on.

 

No evidence that S/he/It doesn't exist - so why believe that S/he/It doesn't?

 

We're only going on your own direct experience. No books. No teachers. No preachers.

That, my friend, is the bottom line. There is no evidence to prove the absence nor is ther any evidence to prove the existence. At this point it is up to the individual to make the choice. To believe or to deny. Mine was to deny. To each his/her own.

 

My first straying from the belief was the belief in a virgin birth. A pass-down from Greek mythology.

[Marblehead]

No MH

 

If you're interested, I'll pursue one thing at a time with you.

I'm trying to let you take the lead. (I am opinionated though. You know that, right?)

[Marblehead]

So no evidence that Consciousness ends at the death of the physical body?

I am pretty sure science has answered that but no, I cannot say one way or the other based solely on personal experience.

 

But it would shock the hell out of me if my consciousness starts floating around and looks upon my dead body when I die. Besides, I never was any good at levitating.

[gatito]

I am pretty sure science has answered that but no, I cannot say one way or the other based solely on personal experience.

 

But it would shock the hell out of me if my consciousness starts floating around and looks upon my dead body when I die. Besides, I never was any good at levitating.

 

We're not talking about science because science cannot measure or capture Consciousness.

 

Now here's where it might start to get really interesting: -

 

Can you locate an edge or a boundary to your Consciousness?

 

You have to really look - for yourself. This is NOT about beliefs!!!

Edited November 15, 2012 by gatito

[三江源]

Gods holy grace is ineffable.