Kundalini progress

[Ulises]

a major, freeing cognitive change: to stop reifying "kundalini" as a "thing"...

 

"...it's been widely misunderstood, unfortunately...(...) it's not some isolated, human event...it's the flight of the bird, the buzzing of the bee, the shades of light on the faces of the moon,it's the laughter in the human being,and the tears..."

 

 

 

 

A group of elder women n/om kxaosi were asked what made them so strong in

matters of n/om (Bushman for so-called "kundalini" (Keeney 2010). They replied, “we are this way because of the tears we

have wept for the ancestors who have passed on.” The deepest longing human beings

experience often comes from the loss of a loved one. Rather than trying to emotionally

get over it, these Bushman elders keep the longing alive, feeding it until it breaks their

hearts wide open in an awakened way, bringing them inside a more expansive and

intimate relation with their ancestors. In this connection tears flow along a channel that

keeps their relationships strong and permits a never-ending expression of love and soulful

guidance.

Another intense form of longing is familiar to all lovers who fall deeply in love. In

this infinite ocean of Eros we find there is more than simple love. There is loving love.

When we become lovers of loving, the ropes are inseparable from us and carry our hearts

into the highest realms.

~CIRCULUS: Journal for Creative Transformation. Volume1, Issue 1

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ulises

[Creation]

a major, freeing cognitive change: to stop reifying "kundalini" as a "thing"...

Yes!

 

Now if only I can do that with everything "spiritual", and actually, how about everything period? That would be freeing. But in saying that, am I not making the same error?

 

[Ulises]

"In this ecstatic dancing, or shaking, we tap into a magical mysterious force of energy- n|om- that is an entry to a world the rest of us have heard very little about. I am speaking of the original world of spiritual mystery. There, anything is possible and impossible, sometimes at the same time.

 

In the Kalahari, we enter a river, a current, and a mystery that flows inside us. As Rumi poetically said, "You feel a river moving in you, a joy." This movement that takes you into spiritual mystery is inseperable from n|om. You can't say it is n|om, for n|om is more than that. In fact, you never can say what n|om is. No definition can capture it. You can't even say the word "n|om" when it is moving within you; that would be dangerous. The n|om might get too strong.

 

Like the Hebrews who refused to utter the name of Yahweh, the bushmen have long known the wisdom of having respect names. These are words for holy names. N|om has a respect name, and so does God. When you feel a holy presence nearby, you respect its power and do not allow a word to set up an illusory (and potentially arrogant) knowing of something that goes past the limit of our mind's ability to understand. You use another word to distance yourself from the mirage of knowing. In other words, the respect names help keep everything a mystery..."

 

 

http://www.dailyom.com/library/000/002/000002360.html

[konchog uma]

Whatever kundalini is, I am no longer going to treat it is something in a petri dish, as it were.

 

My post was more of a expression of years of frustration finally coming out, prompted by a sincere seeker just starting his research being bombarded with contradictory information, than it was a statement of fact.

 

Amen Creation. But i am not surprised by conflicting information. In the realm of subtle energy, what reveals itself to one culture is not what is revealed to another culture, and within those cultures, what is revealed to one individual might conflict with another's perception. It is common. I have read a fair bit about the chakras and from a yogic point of view (like the book i am finishing now, Layayoga by Goswami) there are definitely sanskrit symbols each each chakra and on each petal. Goswami will tell you "this is the nature of a chakra" but did native americans or egyptians see such a thing?! hahaha no of course not.

 

I think the most important aspect of study isn't to find the "one right way" and exclude all others as wrong ways, the most important aspect is to study as widely as you can and compare and contrast, looking for overlap and similarities... those places where different continents and cultures saw the same thing inside are the places that interest me.

 

the kali yuga entails certain factors of time and space to be acting on all of us from within and without, unavoidable pressures which affect neural pathways and intentions. IME one of those factors is the idea that once a so called authority has seen something their way, they present it as THE WAY. It takes a great scholar to write a book in which are different expositions of something, which conflict, and in which that author doesn't try to tell the reader what to believe. Interestingly Layayoga is one such book, giving 11 accounts in the chapter i just read of the chakra system (colors, locations, etc). But i am not writing to cheerlead for Goswami, just to say that its rare in these times that a writer can transcend their own personal viewpoint... perhaps one might think that in the area of kundalini it would be more prevalent, but if, as it seems, it isn't, then i will just apply the comparing and contrasting that i mentioned, looking for overlap and similarities, and noting differences as variations within the system.

 

In a way, you can look at everything like that. If you look at spiritual paths and wisdom traditions, they all revolve around the central point of meditation/prayer with some various other cultural trappings and frills thrown in for flavor. So i discard all the trappings and frills, and i pray and meditate every day. I don't get caught up in whether my path is more or less enmeshed in ignorance than anyone else's path!! Hahaha i just walk it. So rambling aside, i think we can apply that sort of approach to everything we research, in order to save ourselves from a certain degree of frustration, and to distill the essence of the subject into a refined form

[Ulises]

My dear friend, watch these radiant faces with your heart wide open...do you feel they mind anything about putting this amazing opening in a box of words...? ; )

 

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ulises

[Ulises]

I don't know anamatva, when I have seen things like what you say I have only considered it as imagination. Like once I had deemed to see a bunch of energy beings all around me, of various and differing colors, yet not solid but flowing energy. They had sorta of long, thin tentacles, and were waving them around at me and trying to penetrate to me.

 

It has never really happened again, once I started to weave a shield, or pretend too Maybe the aura will block somethings from the vicinity.

(pure speculation of course)

 

Normally I can feel a presence more than see anything, weird.

 

By determining a point you collapse the wave. I'm not saying that it is your imagination, I just don't have anything to really relate to it.

 

Could it be your imagination of something that you were told or believed is beginning to fade?

 

I have heard others say they see things like you, but I haven't personally, sorry I can't help more.

 

=-/

 

 

 

Dear Informer...just "imagination"...? It depends how we define the word "imagination"...there is "fantasy"(irreal images) and "imaginal perception" ; )

http://www.sevenpillarshouse.org/article/field_notes_one_an_overview/

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ulises

[Informer]

Good catch.

 

Right brain ^.^

[3bob]

I'd add that all "trappings" are not just all trappings... but part of a vehicle and what makes it work. Besides when coming back from "beyond" one must take up vehicles of some sort or another to interact in this world.

 

On a different tangent we also have what to me is a seemingly big contradiction, for example: Buddhist and Hindu masters or the "enlightened" ones who as far as I know (which btw is not all that far) do NOT or perhaps very seldom get together for weekend gatherings and or close joint projects and serious power and resource sharing... yet we tend to hear a steady stream of teachings from them about unity, sharing, ethics, etc. etc. which they do not or seldom practice with each other because they are far to busy being their own special interest group or sect - are there divine reasons for such modus-operandi besides the human one of "to each their own"? I'm not sure about such having validity past a certain point in this world or any other... how do you see it?

[konchog uma]

I'd add that all "trappings" are not just all trappings... but part of a vehicle and what makes it work. Besides when coming back from "beyond" one must take up vehicles of some sort or another to interact in this world.

 

On a different tangent we also have what to me is a seemingly big contradiction, for example: Buddhist and Hindu masters or the "enlightened" ones who as far as I know (which btw is not all that far) do NOT or perhaps very seldom get together for weekend gatherings and or close joint projects and serious power and resource sharing... yet we tend to hear a steady stream of teachings from them about unity, sharing, ethics, etc. etc. which they do not or seldom practice with each other because they are far to busy being their own special interest group or sect - are there divine reasons for such modus-operandi besides the human one of "to each their own"? I'm not sure about such having validity past a certain point in this world or any other... how do you see it?

 

point taken, trappings can be more than just frivolous decoration.

 

I am not sure i can say why enlightened masters might do what they do. I might have my guesses, but the enlightened i know of by readings and their words are not reasonable people. They aren't rational i mean. So i don't know if thinking about why someone who has attained their freedom might do what they do is really going to get me anywhere.

 

I sort of feel that making blanket statements about masters is silly, but i take you to mean that a significant number of these masters behave that way.

 

The only thing i can really offer is that when the cords of attachment to the world are cut, maybe they just don't find themselves able to care or invest themselves in the doings of people or the fates of the masses anymore.

[Rishi Das]

On a different tangent we also have what to me is a seemingly big contradiction, for example: Buddhist and Hindu masters or the "enlightened" ones who as far as I know (which btw is not all that far) do NOT or perhaps very seldom get together for weekend gatherings and or close joint projects and serious power and resource sharing... yet we tend to hear a steady stream of teachings from them about unity, sharing, ethics, etc. etc. which they do not or seldom practice with each other because they are far to busy being their own special interest group or sect - are there divine reasons for such modus-operandi besides the human one of "to each their own"? I'm not sure about such having validity past a certain point in this world or any other... how do you see it?

 

If all the masters, gurus, realized beings (whatever you want to call them) got together, what would they even have to discuss? What would be the point of such a gathering besides residing in the presence of another human being that knows what's up? Taking a shot in the dark, i'd say it'd end up being one big meditation session, each individual just enjoying the moment, abiding in the divine as they always do.

 

Were you hinting at the possibility that if all these people gathered in a large group they would be able to summon up some magic powers that would enlighten the world, possibly create peace on earth? That begs me to ask the question, where's the fun in that? From all that i've learned, a big part of realization is understanding that one must, let be, what is.

 

I think the real point is exactly what you pointed out, "to each their own." In my opinion one has to be hungry for realization, and then with that hunger work diligently for it. The walking Buddha's I assume understand this and so do not go about pushing anything on anyone.

 

The only thing i can really offer is that when the cords of attachment to the world are cut, maybe they just don't find themselves able to care or invest themselves in the doings of people or the fates of the masses anymore.

 

In my opinion it doesn't have to do with a lack of care in people or the fates of the masses; more like people and the masses having a lack of care in what these realized beings have to offer. When the cords of attachment to the world are cut, they find themselves here only to offer seva; to help along those that seek to truly know truth.

 

I guess my question is, what point would the world have if everyone were to awaken all at once anyways? The answer that seems to come is that the play of consciousness would be over; and then what? We decide to play again?

Edited February 16, 2012 by don_vedo

[konchog uma]

In my opinion it doesn't have to do with a lack of care in people or the fates of the masses; more like people and the masses having a lack of care in what these realized beings have to offer. When the cords of attachment to the world are cut, they find themselves here only to offer seva; to help along those that seek to truly know truth.

 

I guess my question is, what point would the world have if everyone were to awaken all at once anyways? The answer that seems to come is that the play of consciousness would be over, and then what? We decide to play again?

 

i think thats a good point about selfless contribution, but i don't agree with you about the play being over with awakening. I don't think anything stops in a static sense when beings awaken. I have met, and we have all read, about dynamic beings who achieved their awakening and then lived a rich, full life, like the life they led before awakening, except more rich and full. If you are a frog in a well, it is hard to imagine what sunlight and a vast expansive field or a pond would look like and be like, but that doesn't mean that there is no reality outside the well. Awakening is like this. Reality does not fold up and go away when beings awaken, it only reveals greater and greater beauty and mystery, and enjoyment to be found in the most mundane of activities, and all things.

[Rishi Das]

i think thats a good point about selfless contribution, but i don't agree with you about the play being over with awakening. I don't think anything stops in a static sense when beings awaken. I have met, and we have all read, about dynamic beings who achieved their awakening and then lived a rich, full life, like the life they led before awakening, except more rich and full. If you are a frog in a well, it is hard to imagine what sunlight and a vast expansive field or a pond would look like and be like, but that doesn't mean that there is no reality outside the well. Awakening is like this. Reality does not fold up and go away when beings awaken, it only reveals greater and greater beauty and mystery, and enjoyment to be found in the most mundane of activities, and all things.

 

I definitely agree that on an individual basis, awakening leads to a much more "rich and full" experience of life; that being said in our seeking of realization we look to be extracted from the wheel of cyclic existence pointing me in the direction that while life might be a lot more "rich and full" it is still pretty mundane and something we become totally comfortable letting go of. The way I see it is that upon realization, communing with the divine is all that is, in that regard it seems obvious that everything becomes much more beautiful; that doesn't take away from the fact that offering Seva to the world is about all that's left.

 

My statement however was more or less directed toward a mass awakening of the world and all sentient beings therein. That being said, that's just the vibe I get when I attend to those thoughts; I guess my little egoic mind just doesn't see the point of physicality if all was realized by all; more or less I see the fun as coming from ignorance to knowing, almost like a game of hide and seek.

 

EDIT: I don't mean to come off as knowing, that's definitely not even close to the case. What I say is pure opinion and more or less what I have pulled from experience up until now.

Edited February 16, 2012 by don_vedo

[dwai]

If all the masters, gurus, realized beings (whatever you want to call them) got together, what would they even have to discuss? What would be the point of such a gathering besides residing in the presence of another human being that knows what's up? Taking a shot in the dark, i'd say it'd end up being one big meditation session, each individual just enjoying the moment, abiding in the divine as they always do.

 

Were you hinting at the possibility that if all these people gathered in a large group they would be able to summon up some magic powers that would enlighten the world, possibly create peace on earth? That begs me to ask the question, where's the fun in that? From all that i've learned, a big part of realization is understanding that one must, let be, what is.

 

I think the real point is exactly what you pointed out, "to each their own." In my opinion one has to be hungry for realization, and then with that hunger work diligently for it. The walking Buddha's I assume understand this and so do not go about pushing anything on anyone.

 

 

 

In my opinion it doesn't have to do with a lack of care in people or the fates of the masses; more like people and the masses having a lack of care in what these realized beings have to offer. When the cords of attachment to the world are cut, they find themselves here only to offer seva; to help along those that seek to truly know truth.

 

I guess my question is, what point would the world have if everyone were to awaken all at once anyways? The answer that seems to come is that the play of consciousness would be over; and then what? We decide to play again?

 

 

 

I think the important thing to realize is that there is a complex balance of things that maintains itself in the mundane reality we all live in. The realized masters have transcended that but one of the rules is to not create more karma. By interfering in the lives of others, karma is going to be manipulated, thus generating more karma for the masters themselves. I think as long as we have this physical body and this mundane existence, we are bound by the laws that govern this world. Sure, a transcendent Master would have broken through the "barriers" of ignorance, but what about those of us who haven't. Who knows what ramifications doing something like that will have?

[Rishi Das]

I think the important thing to realize is that there is a complex balance of things that maintains itself in the mundane reality we all live in. The realized masters have transcended that but one of the rules is to not create more karma. By interfering in the lives of others, karma is going to be manipulated, thus generating more karma for the masters themselves. I think as long as we have this physical body and this mundane existence, we are bound by the laws that govern this world. Sure, a transcendent Master would have broken through the "barriers" of ignorance, but what about those of us who haven't. Who knows what ramifications doing something like that will have?

 

Nicely put, definitely enjoyed that.

 

As for the bolded; I must have stated what I meant incorrectly in the post you quoted, hopefully I made what I meant to say a little more clear in my statement above.

Edited February 16, 2012 by don_vedo

[ShaktiMama]

Sounds like you are right where you should be. Right on schedule. Shakti will unfold as she see fits. Your only job is to relax and let Shakti direct the journey. As long as you do the process keeps going.

 

S

 

 

Recently, i had a powerful awakening that i wrote about in the vedanta forum in a thread called Layayoga by Goswami.

 

For the first 4-5 days afterwards i could very easily see, with my mind's eye, the energy as it was, lightning bright and slightly blue with a tinge of violet. I even saw the tiny thread of it between chakras once or twice before i knew the nature of the sushumna (that it is very thin). However, as days go by i find it harder to see in my minds eye, and if i do see it, it is bright but not lightning-bright. I am not worried, because it told me that i should not depend on the inner vision of it and that it can manifest unseen and unknown to me. I am also not worried because i can still FEEL it, and that it what is important. When it has awakened and climbs, i get a feeling like night air in my back and when it gets to the sahasrara, and beyond, i feel cool throughout, very pleasantly so. I feel the sense of bliss that accompanied it at first, and in many subtle ways i feel that it is very much a part of me now. I feel as it rises my chakras "bloom" and awaken to vibrancy, and basically have all the sensations except i can't see it so i wonder "how can i not see it its so bright??"

 

I wonder about the normalcy of this (if thats the word for it?), because i have read that sometimes shaktipat can awaken the mother kundalini for a while, but that it can possibly go back to sleep. I would like to ask the more experienced of you bums about this, mostly for fear of losing this wonderful blessing I don't know what a person can do to keep it from going back to sleep. I use the mantra Hum Hamsa and concentrate on the dormant kundalini in the form of a coil of brilliant light around a linga in the muladhara. I practice 1-4-2 pranayama. Sometimes it takes 15 minutes to even get a hint of bright light, sometimes its almost immediate. I have more success first thing in the morning.

 

Does the visualization of it come and go for others out there? Does it fluctuate, and if so, are the fluctuations i describe normal? Or might i be losing it? Do you have advice on how to cultivate it in the beginning?

 

I feel largely like its the doing of the kundalini, so that i don't indulge in the brilliant display of it and focus instead on the feelings of wakedness and bliss, which are more relevant. At least, like i said, thats what she told me. So thanks for humoring me cause i feel like this is coming from an insecure part of my psyche but i'm really curious as to whether this just happens, or what? Thanks in advance for your advice. Blessings

Edited February 17, 2012 by ShaktiMama

[Ulises]

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=3322693&q=hi&newref=1 Edited February 17, 2012 by Ulises

[Ulises]

' "TS: And then what happened that the quaking and shaking was left out of these traditions?

 

Brad Keeney: Well, the first thing that happened was that it required a full democracy. That meant there couldn't be a hierarchy. The Spirit didn't care about who was in a hierarchical relationship to another. You couldn't have a Dalai Lama. You couldn't have a pope. Everybody was equal in matters of the Spirit. It was between you and God. This upset the whole apple cart, because it let, among other people, women to believe that they could be free! There's a wonderful academic book written—I think it's John Hopkins Press—that just came out a couple years ago, showing that part of the suppression of the Shaker and Quaker movement was because women were feeling freedom when they had the shakes seize them, and they were finding out there's no reason to have any unnatural hierarchy.

 

So it had political implications, but it also meant, on the other hand, asking, "How do we live in a truly free world where we can relate to each other creatively, as opposed to ritualistically?" We know that, in the living of life, it can either tend to lean towards being an improvisational art, or it can follow the routines of someone's prescribed way of how we should behave with one another. And shaking, ecstatic heart awakening, let people free. It said, "Live life as jazz!" It's improvisational! It moves! It's something that cannot be held, contained, predicted. It is, in the most beautiful sense of the word, wild..." '

http://www.soundstrue.com/weeklywisdom/?source=podcast&p=3645&category=IATE&version=full

Edited February 20, 2012 by Ulises

[Ulises]

Highly recommended.

 

 

 

 

SOVATSKY, STUART. Words from the soul: Time, East/West spirituality and psychotherapeutic narrative. Albany, NY: State university of New York Press, 1998.$59.95 cloth; $19.95 paper; 241 pp.

 

 

 

In this pioneering interdisciplinary book, which integrates in-depth existential andanalytic philosophies and transpersonal psychology with the developmental theory of kundalini yoga, Sovatsky draws from decades of kundalini yoga practice, 28 years directing Lee Sanella's Kundalini Clinic for Counseling and Research (the world's first spiritual emergence service), and 10 years of social work. More interestingly ,the book abounds with stylistic experiments capable of inducing a personal transformation in the reader during the very process of reading the book.

 

The book's reformulation of the psyche as a reunification of ego and superego offers a new and clearly "spiritual" vision of the therapeutic process grounded in the unrelenting impermanence of now, now, now (known in Buddhism as anicca). After examining the limitations of past-oriented psychotherapies, Dr. Sovatsky discusses the fallacies of many largely taken-for-granted therapeutic assumptions, as well as corresponding linguistic devices used in therapist-client interaction, including the metaphors of "depth" and "shadow" and commonly used terms such as "needs," "depression," "anger," and "self." He follows this critique with a global revisioning of psychopathology as entirely a matter of "spiritual emergence-struggles with our existential situatedness in time-passage and with the soul's variable powers of faith, gratitude, longing, forgiveness, contrition, and, most centrally, with awe.

 

Awe, he muses, might be a better term for human sentience than "consciousness, "for it retains a hint of the emotionality of truly lived consciousness and, thereby, a heart-filled sentience. Thus, increases in consciousness entail increases in awe, a mood closely related to fear and even terror and thus prone to confusions that can lead to panic, anxiety, and dissociation.

 

The book goes on to offer an alternative clinical language. For example, what mightbe called "anger" by a conventional therapist, the soteriological (soul-focused) therapistmight see as "frustrated hopefulness." Psychosis might be renamed "overwhelmingawe of the infinite." Depression might be seen as "frustrated longing."Such soteriological renaming begins the transmutation of "psychopathologies" intomatters of great spiritual import.

 

These sentiments emerge as the "light" hidden within "the shadow" of pathology; as each person's struggle toward balanced, harmonious,and mentally healthy life (called in yoga santosham or sattva). As the curative value of such positivity is established, the author reorients the therapeuticprocess toward such simple matters as giving and receiving love, confidence(faith), and happiness-an almost forbidden word in the clinical vocabulary-and eschews the more abstract and moot issues of "self-restoration" or "individuation."

 

What surfaces as profound and perhaps rescues this positivity from superficiality or mere preaching is Sovatsky's concern with impermanence and with the elusiveness of "name and form." These temporal and linguistic focii are clarified with references from Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Feuerbach (arguably the first transpersonal psychologist), Wittgenstein, Whitman, Rilke, and Buddhist and yogic doctrine.

 

Furthermore, the book is filled with clinical vignettes that bring the theory to life bymapping it onto the fleeting phenomenology of blushes and tremors of newlyembodied hope, faith, shared longing, and so on.The poetic yet precise prose of the book is ready for contemplative "consumption" similar to the Lexio Divina or the internalizations via Buddhist koan practice.

 

A multidimensional philosophical fabric is thus woven into the units of meaning, aiming to foster in the reader the same awe-filled states of consciousness that the text describes.Thus, the book's intentionally run-on sentences, typographic experiments, and linguistic deconstructions can put off the too-casual reader. The effort required, what Wittgenstein called "perspicuity," is matched by what can be attainment through such effort: a freedom within the realm of names and forms, known within "real" or "living" time.

 

The awakening process is right here, available now, while reading this review.

 

The book also discusses many critical but little known bodily manifestations of kundalini (e.g., urdhva-retas, khechari, shambavi, and unmani mudras) and raises the transpersonal discourse on this topic to a new level of yogic authenticity.

 

For kundalini is too often shallowly associated with personal empowerment, energy manipulations of chakras, and hyperdramatic states of "spiritual emergency." Thus, the depth of Shakta philosophy is not fully known in the West: the spiritual potential of the glands, fluids, and tissues of the body as "precipitates of temporality," as the"ensouling" of the body, along the meditative path.

 

Sovatsky thus urges that kundalini"awakening" be renamed the "postgenital puberty" of the neuroendocrine system in respect for the depth of its maturational effects upon one's identity sense, glandular functioning, love sense, and sense of life-purpose.

 

Examining psychopathology through the combined filter of phenomenology and kundalini yoga, the author postulates that resistance to the passage of time described by Nietzsche as the "spirit of revenge" is the ultimate form of psychopathology.

 

Sovatsky develops the first transpersonal interpretation of suicidality-of trying to "end" time-by employing a Wittgensteinian analysis of suicidal thoughts. Impermanence proves to be both the "cure" and the "problem."

 

 

 

0. Luchakova. The Journal of Transpersonal Psychology, 2001, Vol. 33, No. 1

Edited March 3, 2012 by Ulises

[konchog uma]

yes thanks!