why did creation happen according to Taoism?

[mile83]

Hello,

 

I'm relatively new to Taoism, already have so many questions, sorry if this may sound stupid. Could somebody tell me why creation happened according to Taoism. In Hinduism for example creation is said to be due to Lila. Why did Dao create the One, the One created the two and so on..

 

Thank you very much

[joeblast]

in extreme states, sometimes it only takes but a small peturbation to induce yang from extreme yin...but afaik I dont know of any real concrete "why"...

[ralis]

Hello,

 

I'm relatively new to Taoism, already have so many questions, sorry if this may sound stupid. Could somebody tell me why creation happened according to Taoism. In Hinduism for example creation is said to be due to Lila. Why did Dao create the One, the One created the two and so on..

 

Thank you very much

 

The Tao didn't create the one. The Tao is not about some Biblical creation story. I would recommend reading and studying the many fine threads here and ask questions.

[mile83]

The Tao didn't create the one. The Tao is not about some Biblical creation story. I would recommend reading and studying the many fine threads here and ask questions.

 

Um, according to this site from the FAQ of this forum it did. Cosmology

[konchog uma]

Hi mile83,

 

I suggest not taking things too literally. And i second the idea of reading as many translations of the Tao Te Ching, and other classics as possible. It is written that the dao begot one, one begot two, and so on. However, to my knowledge, daoists never really concern themselves with why. The best explanation i have receieved is that "why" just leads to an infinite regression of "because..." to which can be asked "why" again and again.

 

So some people will tell you that the dao gave birth to one because the old version of reality had come to a close and joined the void again.. that is just one cosmological interpretation, of course nobody was there! Some will say it just did, and thats that, and thats the camp i personally fall into. Some might say that the dao begot one because the universe is full of space and time and something exploded to fill that spacetime.. to me thats based on physics, but some people (like Frijof Capra) have done a lot of bridge science and mysticism.

 

There are probably myriad other answers, but i suggest taking them all with a grain of salt. The dao isn't a logical reasonable thing, it likely doesn't do what it does for reasons that logic can grasp or language can elucidate. Its like asking why something happens in a dream.. you can get freudian or jungian or interpret it according to gypsy witchcraft but in the end, things just happen spontaneously, sometimes simply because they happen. No other reason needed or given.

 

Another thing to remember is that in all likelyhood, time as we experience it has no beginning or end in any absolute sense. Even if this universe experienced a big bang which was its origin, there may be reality beyond the bounds of that explosion, or the universe as it is known. As the buddhist doctrine goes, this arose from beginningless beginninglessness.

 

One last thing to remember is that nobody who gives you an answer knows for sure, so take it all with a shaker of salt.

Edited February 16, 2012 by anamatva

[mile83]

thank you anamatva for your answer. I appreciate it. It's more clear to me now .

[konchog uma]

thank you anamatva for your answer. I appreciate it. It's more clear to me now .

 

you're most welcome

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Why did creation happen? Because the void looked on and became lonely and began to reflect. this reflection is reality.

 

From nothing came one thing (reflection) which brought about two things (the reflection and the reflectee) which brought about three things (+ perception/opinion/perspective/relativity) which brought about all things... which are an equivelent whole of nothing at all, void.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

There is also the aspect of "All is One, and One is All" sort of like light has all the colours in it though they are not expressed until the light is broken up into various frequencies. So first there was Emptiness which also contains Form, but ultimately both are the same. Sort of like someone can be silent or loud. They are neither but the potential is there for both. There is a potential to be still and to move, while there is stillness in movement and movement within stillness.

 

So eventually these potentials were expressed. Whatever caused the divide, don't know that I've heard a Taoist theory about that. I think Buddhists would say that because we are in various states of Karma we experience these different sides of Emptiness and Form when really there's no difference. I'm not sure that Taoists have tried to explain that side of it though, as Anamatva said...

[Taomeow]

Creation did not "happen" in the taoist paradigm at all. Being and nonbeing are two sides of the same tao coin. "Being comes from nonbeing" and "nonbeing reverts to being" naturally. There's no cause-effect relationship, no "before" and "after," no "reason why." (There only a "how" -- and to the question "how" does creation happen in taoism the answer is, "via the first impulse of Thunder originating from the third trigram of the xiantian, Spring, setting the still and the unmanifest into motion and manifestation.") There's inherent properties of tao, of which being and nonbeing are the primary ones. Consequently, anyone steeped in any creationist paradigm (be it father in heaven or the big bang or the void that has somehow made this or that decision at this or that point for this or that reason, or what have you) would take the first step toward grasping the non-creationist taoist paradigm by applying the "why" question elsewhere:

 

Q: Why doesn't linear logic wrap around taoist cosmology?

A: Because it doesn't bend.

 

[Aaron]

There is no direct explanation as to why the universe was created in the Taoist philosophical texts. The religious side of Taoism follows traditional Chinese mythology, but most philosophical Taoists don't worry so much about it. I would say to the majority of Taoists it's not important why the universe was created as it understanding one's place within the universe.

 

Now chapter 1 of the Tao Teh Ching says we can understand Tao by understanding the world around us and if you spend enough time looking at the world you see the cyclical nature of things, so one could say the universe was created because it was meant to be created, so that life could persist and exist.

 

Aaron

[doc benway]

Hello,

 

I'm relatively new to Taoism, already have so many questions, sorry if this may sound stupid. Could somebody tell me why creation happened according to Taoism. In Hinduism for example creation is said to be due to Lila. Why did Dao create the One, the One created the two and so on..

 

Thank you very much

 

Why is a particular characteristic of the human thought process, it is not a characteristic of existence otherwise.

But now that I think of it, there is no experience of existence without awareness and it would seem there is no awareness without the 'why'?

I started going somewhere with this but I've actually derailed my own comment...

Oh well, carry on please.

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 42

Tao engenders One;

One engenders Two;

Two engender Three;

Three engender all things.

 

Translation:

Tao is One; One generates Two; Two produce Three; Three reproduce all.

 

Interpretation:

Tao is the creator of all things. The first part of this chapter is describing the sequence of events during the genesis.

 

At the Wu-state, Tao is one. One cannot produce but it can generate Two. So, One spins and generated two substances, the yin and the yang, called Chi.

 

Two consist of the yin and the yang; and they can produce. Therefore, they are united and become homogeneous. They produced an offspring which is Three.

 

Three, itself, carries the genes of Yin-Yang. Since Three carries both genes of Yin-Yang, now, then they can reproduce all things.

 

All things will repeat the reproduction cycle and multiplies. Thus all things are created.

[doc benway]

I'm not a scholar of Daoism or Dao De Jing so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

One thing that rings very true with me when I read translations of DDJ is that in describing "creation" it seems to attempt to describe "existence" instead. That is, there seems to be a sense of eliminating the distraction of time and cause-effect from the equation.

I think there is a real sense of the these things occurring/existing now and always without implying time.

Time seems to be a consequence of human thought and sensory apparatus more than an inherent characteristic of existence.

We project our limited experience onto everything around us, time and cause-effect being part of this.

Other creation myths seem to be a little less concerned with pointing this out or do so in more subtle ways.

So to talk about "creation" vs "existence" already biases the question toward - what happened at some point in time.

And that is probably an inaccurate way of phrasing the question.

[dwai]

Hello,

 

I'm relatively new to Taoism, already have so many questions, sorry if this may sound stupid. Could somebody tell me why creation happened according to Taoism. In Hinduism for example creation is said to be due to Lila. Why did Dao create the One, the One created the two and so on..

 

Thank you very much

My take on it is as follows (and it pertains to both daoist and hindu thought):

 

The universe is a reslt of bubbling over of the infinite bowl of soup that Dao/brahman is. As bubbles arise, they form the infinite things that make this universe. As they collapse back into the soup they become the soup again. Some say that The cause of the bubbles is unknowable, it is just that it happens. Some others say that this is the bliss of that one rising over ( eg hindu tantra calls it spanda or vibrations) and then subsiding again.

 

IIRC, the Toltecs considered that one the Giant Eagle, and we are made up of filaments of it's energy and that all sentient beings are "food" for the Giant Eagle. So things come into creation and dissolve back into the Eagle to provide it sustenance...

Edited February 21, 2012 by dwai

[mile83]

thanks for all your replies guys , I like that spanda definition, could one say it is the nature of the Tao to be creative? or would that be wrong?

[dwai]

thanks for all your replies guys , I like that spanda definition, could one say it is the nature of the Tao to be creative? or would that be wrong?

 

The Dao has no nature (in that it is not possible to ascribe human attributes to it), afaik. If there is creativity, it is a result of something else, not an intentional creation (like in God creates the universe because she is creative).

[ChiDragon]

 

I think there is a real sense of the these things occurring/existing now and always without implying time.

 

Time seems to be a consequence of human thought and sensory apparatus more than an inherent characteristic of existence.

 

So to talk about "creation" vs "existence" already biases the question toward - what happened at some point in time.

 

Chapter 1.

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.

 

3. Invisible(無, Wu) was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.

4. Visible(有, You) was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.

 

5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.

6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its limitation.

 

7 These two come from one origin but differ in name,

8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious;

9. The gate of all changes.

 

Let's look at lines 3 and 4. These two lines had set up a timeline.

3. Invisible(無, Wu) was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.

4. Visible(有, You) was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.

 

Line 3 says: at the beginning of heaven and earth, Tao is invisible.

Line 4 says: When all things are created and Tao became visible, it implies that Tao has created all things. The existence of all things which manifest the existence of Tao. Therefore, based on the manifestation of Tao, the time is day "zero" from the

"origin of heaven and earth" and "Tao as the mother of all things".

 

The massage of these two lines which conveys:

The "origin of heaven and earth" is the beginning of the universe.

"Tao as the mother of all things" which was implicating that Tao is the creator of all things.

Edited February 21, 2012 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

Time is only there if you want it to be.

[Apech]

Time is only there if you want it to be.

 

Lost me there Steve.

[ChiDragon]

Time is only there if you want it to be.

It is not there if you don't want to believe it to be.

[aridus]

I say all existence has always existed.

 

I interpret Tao in this context as 'everything' - i.e. all the substance and interactions which there are.

 

To me it is like saying that there was a publication, and the publication is a newspaper, and the newspaper has pages, and the pages have words, and the words have letters - yet the publication is all one existence.

[ChiDragon]

I say all existence has always existed.

 

I interpret Tao in this context as 'everything' - i.e. all the substance and interactions which there are.

 

To me it is like saying that there was a publication, and the publication is a newspaper, and the newspaper has pages, and the pages have words, and the words have letters - yet the publication is all one existence.

What about before the paper, printing and words were invented....??? Did you read Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching...???

[aridus]

What about before the paper, printing and words were invented....??? Did you read Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching...???

 

It appears that you have misunderstood my analogy.

 

I am speaking of stratified concepts, not when or how anything was made.

[dawei]

I don't like to try and assign Tao as One or Tao as having a nature or Tao as everything. This tends to portray Tao as 'something'.

 

To me, it is a process/rule which resulted in the manifest world's arising (existence or things) and one notices other aspects:

1. zi ran - naturalness - immutability of self-so'ing

2. wu wei - effortlessness - ability to do without intent

3. De - efficaciousness - capacity to exist

 

etc.

 

In this way, it is not One itself but it contributed toward the creative concept of One; that makes it a part of the One (which would include non-existence/existence).