Intuition

[Marblehead]

Yes I agree that using the word "brain" conjures up ideas of "mental" processes that sit in the head whereas the whole body has a lot to contribute that often seems to get ignored or silenced or overidden by the "upper brain".

Yeah, I always have a hard time talking about this stuff because I am such a materialist. Hehehe.

 

I have to be careful of what I say so that people don't start thinking that I am becoming a mystical person.

[Apech]

Yeah, I always have a hard time talking about this stuff because I am such a materialist. Hehehe.

 

I have to be careful of what I say so that people don't start thinking that I am becoming a mystical person.

 

Hi,

 

You seem in your previous post to be including the whole nervous system in with the brain. Just developing that a bit ... if you concede some degree of sentience and organic function to individual cells (as the body is nothing but a collection of cells) ... then you could call the whole body a brain (of sorts). In which case the use of the term brain becomes kind of redundant.

 

If we call perception which is not the result of conscious logical analysis ... such as a feeling that 'such and such' is so ... if we call this intuition ... then we are talking about some kind of body-knowing. I know from my brief experience of martial arts (Aikido) that sometimes we instinctively know the right way to move ... and we don't have to think about why. Maybe this is intuition also????

[三江源]

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Edited April 25, 2015 by 三江源

[Marblehead]

Hi,

 

You seem in your previous post to be including the whole nervous system in with the brain. Just developing that a bit ... if you concede some degree of sentience and organic function to individual cells (as the body is nothing but a collection of cells) ... then you could call the whole body a brain (of sorts). In which case the use of the term brain becomes kind of redundant.

 

If we call perception which is not the result of conscious logical analysis ... such as a feeling that 'such and such' is so ... if we call this intuition ... then we are talking about some kind of body-knowing. I know from my brief experience of martial arts (Aikido) that sometimes we instinctively know the right way to move ... and we don't have to think about why. Maybe this is intuition also????

Yep. I did do that, didn't I?

 

Just remembered about the amputee who lost his arm but could still at certain times feel his hand. The memory and information of the hand was still there even though the entire arm was gone.

 

I really can't argue against anything you have said here. (That means I am in agreement, kinda'. Hehehe.)

Edited March 4, 2012 by Marblehead

[三江源]

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Edited April 25, 2015 by 三江源

[Informer]

Vmarco,

 

From your explanation wouldn't a coincidence also be considered intuition? Considering one of the requirements is without logical lines of formulation.

 

Would you call a coincidence perceived in retrospect intuitive?

 

For example, Nostradamus used logic to deduce perceived cycles, with obvious lines of logic in the process.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Informer

[Informer]

I think Intuition is a synergy that is formed from a balanced and centered mind combined with the realization of metta. Like Heart-mind. The synergy could very well be ever present yet seldom realized.

 

You could say it is foresight, you could also say that it is logically built deductive to inductive reasoning as well. That is because intuition is those things, yet not only those things.

[Apech]

...

 

I really can't argue against anything you have said here. (That means I am in agreement, kinda'. Hehehe.)

 

I saw your kinda agreement but I am not saying anything .....

 

[Clarity]

I have only five senses. Too bad for me.

 

Actually, intuition is your sixth sense. Everybody has it, it's like a tool that we all have that is just waiting to be used.

[Informer]

Actually, intuition is your sixth sense. Everybody has it, it's like a tool that we all have that is just waiting to be used.

 

I would say feeling is the 6th sense before intuition, but maybe it could go either way.

[Marblehead]

Actually, intuition is your sixth sense. Everybody has it, it's like a tool that we all have that is just waiting to be used.

Thanks. I'll accept that.

[Marblehead]

I would say feeling is the 6th sense before intuition, but maybe it could go either way.

Yeah, 'feeling' is a tricky one. I could almost accept that as the sixth as well.

[Vmarco]

Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Hua Hu Ching, Forty Eight

 

 

That is bullshit. Lao Tzu never said that.

 

Many say that the Complete Works of Lao Tzu incudes the Hua Hu Ching,...but probably not indoctrinated Westerners who believe they only have 5 senses, and that the sense organ of thought (the i think) is really who they are.

 

I have only five senses. Too bad for me.

 

Not really. You only believe you have 5 senses. If your brain accepted it was merely an impermanent sense organ, you would be at the threshold of understanding the Tao,...and the brain couldn't have that,...it rather drive your vehicle, and keep your higher consciousness in the truck (of a vehicle that really is just a dream).

 

Lao Tzu said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well" Hua Hu Ching, thirty-five.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

Actually, intuition is your sixth sense. Everybody has it, it's like a tool that we all have that is just waiting to be used.

 

Of course your ego, and the ego of psychologists, want you to believe that,...that thinking, which arises from the sense organ of thought, that is the brain, is somehow special.

 

I mean,...there is even a movie about it,...so it must be true.

 

Buddhism calls the 6th sense "monkey mind."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storehouse_consciousness

[Marblehead]

Lao Tzu said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well" Hua Hu Ching, thirty-five.

 

I have no problem with this. It is a fact to the best of my knowledge.

 

Not really. You only believe you have 5 senses. If your brain accepted it was merely an impermanent sense organ, you would be at the threshold of understanding the Tao,...and the brain couldn't have that,...it rather drive your vehicle, and keep your higher consciousness in the truck (of a vehicle that really is just a dream).

 

Yes. Anything beyond the physical universe is a matter of what we want to believe. If you believe you have nine senses there would be no way for me to prove that you have only five. Yea, I said "what we want to believe" but that's not really the totality of the thought. We believe many things that have been injected into our brain by others, oftentimes without question, and we believe these things without question.

 

It is my understanding that my total essence is impermanent. I don't have a problem with this. I think it is the way it should be.

 

The only way I can "know" Tao is to look at the observable universe. Yeah, this is only slightly more than 4% of the totality of what is. But I can know this aspect of Tao. This is the Tao that can be spoken. What of the other 95% of the totality? This is the Tao that cannot be spoken. Sure, we try. Again and again. Because we want to know. Even I speak of the Mystery and Chi. But do I really know? No, not really. The best I can do is to make assumptions based on what I do know.

 

But then, I have gone astray from the theme of the thread, that is, intuition and what it is.

 

I try to define it logically because I do believe there is such a thing. But I am only making assumptions based on what I know of the Manifest universe. Will I ever know? I mean "gnow" for sure? I doubt it. But that doesn't seem to stop me from talking about it.

 

I trust my intuition. This is because it has served me well in the past. And yes, I will continue to trust it even though I cannot explain it logically.

 

And yes, I believe we could live a much more 'natural' life if we lived intuitionally more often. I would call this being true to one's Self. And I have always contended that we will find inner peace if we are true to our Self.

 

Intuition is good. Logic and reason are good too.

[Birch]

I agree that Logic And reason are good too but I don't think they can be used on everything. Probably quite good on the internal validity of statements but limited when it comes to knowing things about which statements can then be made. So Logic and reason would be a tool to use on beliefs whereas intuition can only be used about reality.

Does that sound like it?

 

BTW the current trend is saying "trust your gut but only if you actually have expertise in the area you're trusting your gut on". I didn't find that very helpful but it's reasonsable enough. I was hoping intuition would work in the absence of expertise...

[Vmarco]

 

 

Yes. Anything beyond the physical universe is a matter of what we want to believe.... Yea, I said "what we want to believe" but that's not really the totality of the thought. We believe many things that have been injected into our brain by others, often times without question, and we believe these things without question.

 

It is my understanding that my total essence is impermanent. I don't have a problem with this. I think it is the way it should be.

 

The only way I can "know" Tao is to look at the observable universe. Yeah, this is only slightly more than 4% of the totality of what is. But I can know this aspect of Tao. This is the Tao that can be spoken. What of the other 95% of the totality? This is the Tao that cannot be spoken.

 

What about this,...anything beyond the Electric Universe (that is the physical, dark matter, and dark energy), the whole of One and Many, can indeed be understood as immediately as we let go of belief and what the thinking we want to believe.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Time and space are changing and dissolving, not fixed and real. "

 

What if what was mentioned in post #22 is correct,....that as Lao Tzu said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things."

 

As Undivided Light is fully synonymous with the Tao in the above quote, could we fully understand the Tao through light? The answer is yes,...whereas something of One or Yin/Yang obscures the Tao (and Undivided Light) and renders the Tao ungnowable.

 

V

[Aaron]

What about this,...anything beyond the Electric Universe (that is the physical, dark matter, and dark energy), the whole of One and Many, can indeed be understood as immediately as we let go of belief and what the thinking we want to believe.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Time and space are changing and dissolving, not fixed and real. "

 

What if what was mentioned in post #22 is correct,....that as Lao Tzu said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things."

 

As Undivided Light is fully synonymous with the Tao in the above quote, could we fully understand the Tao through light? The answer is yes,...whereas something of One or Yin/Yang obscures the Tao (and Undivided Light) and renders the Tao ungnowable.

 

V

 

I just want to interject that undivided light can't have anything to do with Tao, simply because that which gives birth to one cannot be defined, it is the mystery of mysteries. The only way we can learn aspects of it is by understanding the things that have been created from it. Even then we never know everything about it and the moment we believe we're discussing it, we lose it, because it is not something that can be conceived with the human mind.

 

Aaron

Edited March 5, 2012 by Twinner

[Aaron]

On the notion of intuition, Cat had it right from the beginning in my opinion. Good job there Cat. Intuition has nothing to do with knowledge, it is a natural response to what is happening around you, a response based on an instinctual understanding of the world born of experience, rather than a logical understanding based on knowledge. The problem that most people have is that when they do reach a state of intuition, they oftentimes are unaware that they are reacting based on intuition.

 

My own experience stems from AA and the twelve steps. One of the promises for those who have worked all twelve steps is that they will 'intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle them.' Most people don't understand what this means early in recovery, because they are so used to logically deducing what the issues with the world "really" are, based on their own experience with the world, but when they learn that they aren't the center of the universe and begin to accept life on Life's terms, then they will start to react to things in a way that they previously didn't, not because of some knowledge gained, but rather because they're tapping into their original nature, the instinctual part of them that understands intuitively how to handle life on life's terms.

 

Or maybe not. Intuition is so difficult to talk about, simply because it is much like the Tao, it is really undefinable, because it is an action that takes place without thought or knowledge, but rather is born of the one that begat the many within.

 

 

Aaron

Edited March 5, 2012 by Twinner

[Marblehead]

I was hoping intuition would work in the absence of expertise...

That hit me as funny but I can't tell you why.

[Marblehead]

Excellent post and questions! Let's see what responses come to my mind ...

 

What about this,...anything beyond the Electric Universe (that is the physical, dark matter, and dark energy), the whole of One and Many, can indeed be understood as immediately as we let go of belief and what the thinking we want to believe.

 

This is going to be difficult to respond to very well. I think I must first state that I believe that there is a difference between the terms "know" and "understand". So, no, I think we cannot "know" those other aspects of Tao but yes, we can "understand", within limits, these aspects. I suppose we could even call this inspired intuition.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Time and space are changing and dissolving, not fixed and real. "

 

What if what was mentioned in post #22 is correct,....that as Lao Tzu said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things."

 

Hehehe. Nice lead into your next paragraph. I know you like the concept of undivided light so I can understand that you would want the "two" to be Yin and Yang. IMO, this is fine for you. I, however, prefer the "two" to be Chi (Yin and Yang) and Mystery (potential). The reason this works better for me is that I am then able to equate Chi with Dark Energy and Mystery with Dark Matter.

 

As Undivided Light is fully synonymous with the Tao in the above quote, could we fully understand the Tao through light? The answer is yes,...whereas something of One or Yin/Yang obscures the Tao (and Undivided Light) and renders the Tao ungnowable.

 

V

 

Ha! Okay, you are right from your perspective. But that is all the further I will go with this. However, if you were to define "undivided light" as the pure energy that existed immediately after the 'big bang' and prior to the creation of the first hydrogen atoms we might be able to get closer to an agreement.

 

(Remember too that I hold to the concept of Tzujan so I really don't need a reason for why "undivided light" evolved into the first hydrogen atoms.)

[Clarity]

Of course your ego, and the ego of psychologists, want you to believe that,...that thinking, which arises from the sense organ of thought, that is the brain, is somehow special.

 

Who said anything about thinking? We were talking about intuition.

 

Intuition is something I understand from experience, since I use it everyday.

 

My ego may think from time to time, but it does not mean that "I" believe it or live from it.

 

Besides, as far as intuition goes, what we say about it is pretty meaningless because it operates outside the realm of thinking and words.

[Apech]

 

 

Hehehe. Nice lead into your next paragraph. I know you like the concept of undivided light so I can understand that you would want the "two" to be Yin and Yang. IMO, this is fine for you. I, however, prefer the "two" to be Chi (Yin and Yang) and Mystery (potential). The reason this works better for me is that I am then able to equate Chi with Dark Energy and Mystery with Dark Matter.

 

 

Eh? So Chi has negative pressure which causes the expansion of the universe does it? I think you might have to justify this idea.

[Marblehead]

Eh? So Chi has negative pressure which causes the expansion of the universe does it? I think you might have to justify this idea.

Hehehe. I don't have to justify anything I believe!!!

 

However, ...

 

No, Chi is not negative pressure; it is the creating force. Chi is interacting with potential (Mystery, Dark Matter) resulting in the creation of additional 'space' and matter (which are aspects of Manifest) thereby causing the expansion.

 

(Pointing out here that I hold to the belief that at some point in time the universe will become so large Chi will no longer be able to cause further expansion. I also hold that eventually the universe will, at some point in time, begin to contract resulting in a Big Crunch. This is consistent with my Taoist understanding of reversion and cycles. The Big Crunch, death of this current universe, a new singularity, then a new Big Bang.)

 

I believe this intuitively. (Had to keep on topic. Hehehe.)

[Apech]

Hehehe. I don't have to justify anything I believe!!!

 

However, ...

 

No, Chi is not negative pressure; it is the creating force. Chi is interacting with potential (Mystery, Dark Matter) resulting in the creation of additional 'space' and matter (which are aspects of Manifest) thereby causing the expansion.

 

(Pointing out here that I hold to the belief that at some point in time the universe will become so large Chi will no longer be able to cause further expansion. I also hold that eventually the universe will, at some point in time, begin to contract resulting in a Big Crunch. This is consistent with my Taoist understanding of reversion and cycles. The Big Crunch, death of this current universe, a new singularity, then a new Big Bang.)

 

I believe this intuitively. (Had to keep on topic. Hehehe.)

 

Awful lot of beliefs for a skeptic .