Vegetarianism

[konchog uma]

Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million

Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the US eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2 point 3 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Percentage of US farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

 

also, with that percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock stat, keep in mind that thats mostly Monstanto Roundup Ready GMO corn with a superhigh level of pesticide neurotoxins present in it. So thats one more strike against meat. Here's an article called "statistics on why food pesticides are dangerous to your health": http://howtoeliminatepain.com/pesticides/statistics-on-why-food-pesticides-are-so-dangerous-to-your-health/

[Friend]

time to get live on light and love as main dish and became light and love.

 

If it is about spiritual Vegetarianism then one has to careful choose the leaves and fruits the plant want to give, since these are the most effortless to pull from the plant. There is no real need to chop of the cabbage, since the greatest taste are in the outer leafes and the ripe fruits. If you eat those part which are nourishing you have to eat less. So you can avoid to not kill a plant. And for taking a plant then plant a new one on that place as learned from the spirtual lore of the lumberjack.

 

And then one avoid not to use knife as it make the energy flow out at the cuts and if doing so one use a copper knife but not on the parts one want to eat which is learned by Viktor Schauberger. And if one do the plants understand and when they know what should be removed they withdraw the energy from that part. (If you are a lucky druid it charge a whole branch with its concious and lifeforce to travel with you, something like a mobile phone from trees.)

 

And should learn from the movie "Little Buddha" when a new cinema is build in Tibet, to avoid the kill of worms the change from the raw tool using hand and smaller tools when digging holes. Have chicken for the coackroaches and ducks for the slugs to avoid toxins and feed them.

And if you love your plant as I have when it has herbivore insects suck the precious bonsai like chilli pepper plant. I went out and collect 30 Ladybugs and put them on the 15 cm high plant and get rid of these invasion in a day.

[Ya Mu]

Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million

Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the US eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2 point 3 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Percentage of US farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

 

also, with that percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock stat, keep in mind that thats mostly Monstanto Roundup Ready GMO corn with a superhigh level of pesticide neurotoxins present in it. So thats one more strike against meat. Here's an article called "statistics on why food pesticides are dangerous to your health": http://howtoeliminatepain.com/pesticides/statistics-on-why-food-pesticides-are-so-dangerous-to-your-health/

"Encouraged by national biofuel subsidies, nearly 40 percent of the corn grown in the United States now goes to make fuel." http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/science/earth/07cassava.html

Let's see,

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of corn grown in the US for fuel: 40

 

Sometimes (read: all the time) we have to really wonder about all these statistics. That's 140% of the corn accounted for. Where is the other 19.298547623 percent?

 

Yep, the pesticides utilized in farming is most definitely dangerous to one's health. If you don't grow your own vegetables you have no idea what is in them.

[Friend]

 

Yep, the pesticides utilized in farming is most definitely dangerous to one's health. If you don't grow your own vegetables you have no idea what is in them.

 

And the pesticide are not the only problem: GMO in Corn.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html

 

Would be good for fuel but not for eating as well the problem of crossbreeding.

As well some plant should not be eaten or used for oil like Rape seed http://www.rense.com/politics5/dare.htm as well they produce a lot of Methan which is

more danger adding in the green house effect.

[Ya Mu]

Yamu, I was not talking to you in particular. Sorry if you felt offended by my post.

 

I was more thinking of some "spiritual teachers" implying the fact that eating meat could free animals from their inferior condition (yes I have heard that!) , or those who advocate "naturalness" while living in an urban area.

 

Those are, I repeat, bullshit and false excuses.

 

I do understand, however, that some people find hard to become/ remain vegetarian.

You don't easily chage eating habits. You also have social pressure. So, yes, in some cases, people need to eat meat. But this should just be a stage. Just like if you want to climb a mountain, you may need to go down for a while in order to avoid some obstacles. But your goal is the top, not the bottom.

 

I know to what you are referring and I really don't get offended by anything posted on a forum. Some people are assholes, some are ignorant, most think they know things that they really don't, and some actually do know a thing or two.

 

Still disagree as I have clinically seen far too many people who absolutely can't have good health eating veggie only diet. You should see some of these people. White, pasty, run down, and when I ask them have they seen their doctor and asked the doctor were they anemic, they admit that the physician said they were. When I ask what they eat I get preached to about spiritual vegetarianism. Many of them, when they say they will not eat meat and I mention whey protein, go off on me about being vegan. Well, excuse the hell out of me for mentioning something that can help you.

Bottom line is still some do good on veggie only diet and some don't. This has nothing to do with eating habits, social pressures, etc, but a physical thing; most probably everything to do with genetics and most definitely nothing at all to do with "spirituality". Some of you just don't get it because for you it works fine, therefore it should for everyone. Not the case, at all.

[Ya Mu]

And the pesticide are not the only problem: GMO in Corn.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html

 

Would be good for fuel but not for eating as well the problem of crossbreeding.

As well some plant should not be eaten or used for oil like Rape seed http://www.rense.com/politics5/dare.htm as well they produce a lot of Methan which is

more danger adding in the green house effect.

Yes, monsanto corp has no one's best interest in their heart. Only greed and power. And vegetarians eat that crap. Yuc. Search for a list of companies that corp owns. If one hasn't done so, they will be very surprised. Search for the seeds and companies they have bought up so as to rid the world of open-pollinated seeds.

[konchog uma]

"Encouraged by national biofuel subsidies, nearly 40 percent of the corn grown in the United States now goes to make fuel." http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/science/earth/07cassava.html

Let's see,

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of corn grown in the US for fuel: 40

 

Sometimes (read: all the time) we have to really wonder about all these statistics. That's 140% of the corn accounted for. Where is the other 19.298547623 percent?

 

Yep, the pesticides utilized in farming is most definitely dangerous to one's health. If you don't grow your own vegetables you have no idea what is in them.

 

hahaaha interesting... now that we have 140% of the vegetables, we should be able to feed all those starving people!

 

i wish

 

well i can't really comment on that, but thanks for your input.

[Friend]

Yes, monsanto corp has no one's best interest in their heart. Only greed and power. And vegetarians eat that crap. Yuc. Search for a list of companies that corp owns. If one hasn't done so, they will be very surprised. Search for the seeds and companies they have bought up so as to rid the world of open-pollinated seeds.

 

Interesting. Monster corp beginning was producing saccarin.

In the past I had organic chemistry in my study and toxicology and saccarin is

fastening up cancer and now recent use is Asparatam as food adding. Seeing this the Monster corp also produce chemical weapons for WW which are lasting. Also there is a hint that they try to monopolize- especially the recent years they bought a lot of companies. This is as same like the big companies in the game industry did. They bought the smaller companies and some creative energy is lost because of the danger in democratic votes - the loss of the minority.

 

If it is open vote it is also the expose of potential enemies. These either one can influenced to agree, compensations, threat or turning them into antagonism.

Fusion and separation is also very dangerous thing. It appears to be to avoid monopolism but art of war is to fusion to infiltrate a company and set the important position with the own men. So one do not need so many, but disciplined heartless zealots. This is how a small handful of people control so many. Seperation seem to split the monopolism- but this part is already infiltrated and then do cronysm.

Seperation only occurs when the name is already get tainted by product

and already too many are informed and know to avoid.

 

Gentechnical changed biological lifeforms are potential danger of use as biological weapons. So this has to be judged by the standards of the military laws on biological weapons. Using widespread test on civillist of own or foreign city without their agreement is already law breaking.

[Everything]

I decided to go veggie

Stop labeling yourself, or you will fail in your endeavors to eat less meat.

 

You are not a vegitarian and never will be. You are so much more then that. You will eat meat whenever you choose to eat meat and you will not eat meat when you choose to eat something else. Don't dissallow meat, but allow other food. There is a great diffrence in that.

 

The key is to choose to eat other things, besides meat.

 

Someone who decides to become a vegetarian will somehow feel guilty when he/she does eat meat and thus feel unworthy of the crown title of VEGETARIAN(In golden letters). The constant strife for that achievement is eternally tormenting. Give that label a big middle finger and eat less meat whenever you want to, just because you want to in that moment. PERIOD! If you wanna eat meat, eat it! If you wanna eat something else, eat something else! There is nothing spiritual about deviating your alignment with your heart/body/desires.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Everything

[de_paradise]

Buddhists avoid killing animals because its unskillful to add to you karmic debt you owe, and will have that debt to the animal through your lifetimes. Guanyin is considered the patron boddhisattva of vegetarians, of compassion in general. (who is the patron of meat eaters? dracula?) Some people think that modern day hunting, with precision scopes and high-powered rifles pointed at completely oblivious grazing deer is being one with nature, and better than buying the decomposing steroid-injected sterilized stuff from the grocery shelf. They may have a point about the latter, but consider that more sensitive souls consider that form of "hunting" unfair, like murdering a gentle beautiful being. Some people have a difficult time at understanding compassion, sociopaths for example, but there is a whole array of people who do or do not feel enough compassion to avoid killing animals at various levels. When I speak up for those who are compassionate and empathetic enough, care about the planet enough to not want to kill animals, I dont like to be called "holier than thou" If it were to happen, I'd rather drop my wallet in a vegetarian restaurant,its just obvious, the ethics and level of attachment to desires is transmitted. People get this, and why meat eaters get peculiarly defensive or aggressive to vegans, because at some level their ego is crying out to be defended. They dont want feel like the bad guy or wrong, so they lash out.

 

The book "China study", a decades long research volume, on the shelves alot of bookstores, points to the vegetarian diet as being optimal. This is real research, real science, not the b.s. pseudo-science created by the meat and dairy industry.

[Tom Lin]

Stop labeling yourself, or you will fail in your endeavors to eat less meat.

 

You are not a vegitarian and never will be. You are so much more then that. You will eat meat whenever you choose to eat meat and you will not eat meat when you choose to eat something else. Don't dissallow meat, but allow other food. There is a great diffrence in that.

 

The key is to choose to eat other things, besides meat.

 

Someone who decides to become a vegetarian will somehow feel guilty when he/she does eat meat and thus feel unworthy of the crown title of VEGETARIAN(In golden letters). The constant strife for that achievement is eternally tormenting. Give that label a big middle finger and eat less meat whenever you want to, just because you want to in that moment. PERIOD! If you wanna eat meat, eat it! If you wanna eat something else, eat something else! There is nothing spiritual about deviating your alignment with your heart/body/desires.

 

 

Ummm well i guess i wont call myself a "vegetarian" i was just using that label because it is easily associated with people that are on "plant based diets"

 

I just choose not to eat meat because i just know i dont want too. Also i wouldn't feel guilty if i ended up eating meat by accident or whatnot...

[Seth Ananda]

To Yamu's 'facts':

 

Anyone/everyone can be a healthy Vegetarian.

 

This has been shown over and over again.

 

There are numbers of mixed nationality communities around the world with many generations of life long vegetarians, of every blood type, and constitution that there is.

 

Seventh Day Adventists are a perfect example. They only have about 16.3 million members but within those numbers, somewhere you can find people with every elemental disposition, body type, blood type...

They boast among the healthiest and longest lived people on earth.

 

All one needs to be healthy is the adequate balance your body requires of proteins, carbs, vitamins, minerals, and...

 

A vegetarian diet can deliver any combo required for a human.

 

 

Simply put, people who think they 'Need' meat are simply addicted to meat and the quick fix of nutrients it can deliver.

I have met people who 'feel' the cant live without cigarettes, heroine, caffeine... But seriously, they can...

[Ya Mu]

To Yamu's 'facts':

 

Anyone/everyone can be a healthy Vegetarian.

 

This has been shown over and over again.

 

There are numbers of mixed nationality communities around the world with many generations of life long vegetarians, of every blood type, and constitution that there is.

 

Seventh Day Adventists are a perfect example. They only have about 16.3 million members but within those numbers, somewhere you can find people with every elemental disposition, body type, blood type...

They boast among the healthiest and longest lived people on earth.

 

All one needs to be healthy is the adequate balance your body requires of proteins, carbs, vitamins, minerals, and...

 

A vegetarian diet can deliver any combo required for a human.

 

 

Simply put, people who think they 'Need' meat are simply addicted to meat and the quick fix of nutrients it can deliver.

I have met people who 'feel' the cant live without cigarettes, heroine, caffeine... But seriously, they can...

Nope, you simply don't have the clinical experience to recognize this as fact. I do. You simply have an opinion with no back up argument.

 

I STILL haven't seen anyone of you guys so damn gungho here address the stuff I posted in my original post on this thread. Whatsamatter, no answers? You talk but say nothing.

 

Guess who found out that eating meat had nothing to do with "spirituality"? http://www.dalailama.com/

Ask him if he does or does not NEED to eat meat.

 

edit: Again, regardless of anyone's emotional response to this subject, some people do better eating meat. Some get by fine with being a vegetarian. Why is this so hard to understand and why is this such an emotional hotbutton to each of you? I am not telling anyone what to eat. Just pointing out that this is not a cut and dried subject. AND it is pure bullshit that a person who eats meat can't be "spiritual".

 

"Oh, I feel so much lighter now that I have quit eating meat. I may just ascend to heaven." Yep, quite likely, for many people. Easy to get light headed when anemic.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ya Mu

[Ya Mu]

Buddhists avoid killing animals because its unskillful to add to you karmic debt you owe, and will have that debt to the animal through your lifetimes. Guanyin is considered the patron boddhisattva of vegetarians, of compassion in general. (who is the patron of meat eaters? dracula?) Some people think that modern day hunting, with precision scopes and high-powered rifles pointed at completely oblivious grazing deer is being one with nature, and better than buying the decomposing steroid-injected sterilized stuff from the grocery shelf. They may have a point about the latter, but consider that more sensitive souls consider that form of "hunting" unfair, like murdering a gentle beautiful being. Some people have a difficult time at understanding compassion, sociopaths for example, but there is a whole array of people who do or do not feel enough compassion to avoid killing animals at various levels. When I speak up for those who are compassionate and empathetic enough, care about the planet enough to not want to kill animals, I dont like to be called "holier than thou" If it were to happen, I'd rather drop my wallet in a vegetarian restaurant,its just obvious, the ethics and level of attachment to desires is transmitted. People get this, and why meat eaters get peculiarly defensive or aggressive to vegans, because at some level their ego is crying out to be defended. They dont want feel like the bad guy or wrong, so they lash out.

 

The book "China study", a decades long research volume, on the shelves alot of bookstores, points to the vegetarian diet as being optimal. This is real research, real science, not the b.s. pseudo-science created by the meat and dairy industry.

Yawn.

...

Perhaps food combining makes more difference to many people than being a vegetarian. Hmmm.

 

Meats digest well if not combined with carbs.

 

Many do extremely well on Paleo diet.

 

Perhaps eliminating grains makes more difference than being a vegetarian.

 

Some do not do well as vegetarian. Others do.

 

If one eats meat best if pasture raised (more omega 3's), best if butchered properly. Best if lean. Best if you do it yourself.

 

Whatever one eats whether meat or vegetables they should bless the food. And I don't mean petitioning some little old man in the sky, I mean really blessing it.

 

Vegetables from the grocery store? Full of pesticides and other chemicals.

 

Now, let us consider the "humane" "spiritual" aspect.

 

So, let us assume that everyone on Earth gives up meat and goes vegetarian. Now those poor cows, goats, pigs, chickens, and turkeys are free from worry about being eaten and we can pat ourselves on the back for being "spiritual" and all these animals can live out long natural free lives.

 

HA! Not so fast. Let us examine this. Take cows as our test. So now there is no reason for a rancher to feed the many cows (far too costly) and initially there will be a huge die off (yep, us "spiritual" people helped them ascend!), and perhaps bring disease to the human population. What remains will run wild and perhaps a few will live but most will not. Don't want those wild cows running in the streets so we enact laws to take them off the streets. What we gonna do with them? Kill them most likely or perhaps put them in a huge complex and pass extreme tax laws to pay for feeding them. OR they just becomes extinct.

Hmmm. Reckon this will work? What did we do? We most probably killed off a whole group or groups of animals. How "spiritual" would that make us?

 

Deer herds that are not hunted and thinned become a huge problem.

If it were not for the hunting and eating of deer then there would be extreme disease and over-competition for the natural food available and thus a huge die-off of the deer. This is a fact.

 

I didn't post this to piss off the vegetarians. I personally like to eat lots of vegetables and grow them myself and also am of the personal opinion that everyone should do so. But I am hearing a lot of "spiritual" posted here without consideration or if it is really true. Just some food for thought.

 

Also, the majority of vegetarians I have met seem to have this holier than thou attitude. And of course none of you proponents who post here have that, but it is just as bad as those who eat meat having the same attitude against vegetarians. It doesn't make one more "spiritual" to eat either way.

 

The OP asked for experiences with vegetarian diet. Full veg doesn't work well for a lot of people. If you decide to try, simply monitor your well being and don't be dumb about it if it doesn't work for you. It may work well for you or it may not.

So address this one example if you are not going to address all of them.

"Deer herds that are not hunted and thinned become a huge problem.

If it were not for the hunting and eating of deer then there would be extreme disease and over-competition for the natural food available and thus a huge die-off of the deer. This is a fact."

 

You say "Some people have a difficult time at understanding compassion, sociopaths for example, but there is a whole array of people who do or do not feel enough compassion to avoid killing animals at various levels."

So where does this put you if YOU allowed the deer population to die off because you don't want anyone "killing the poor animals"? Kill ALL of them or kill a few; which is more "spiritual" and more compassionate?

[JustARandomPanda]

I was vegetarian for a few years when I was younger but not any more, I think my diet suffered during those years. Buddha seemed to recommend being vegetarian but many Tibetans like the Dalai Lama can't live without meat because of their constitution and they seem to do ok spiritually, I was reading recently that for some Buddhist Tantra you need meat in your diet to help build the tantric drops in your body, so in that situation meat helps you evolve spiritually.

 

Pork seems to be a problem in many religions and when I was in Peru last year I found out that apparently pork completely blocks the shamanic process, if you eat pork then drink Ayahuasca either nothing will happen or you will be ill so I think they may be something deeper to the banning of pork from religion other than it being unclean, it seems to block the access to other worlds so none of the Shaman eat it, other meats seem to be ok though.

 

 

I will add though that the biggest block to the Shamanic process and connecting to the environment in a deeper way is salt, meat isn't the problem it is salt in Amazonian shamanism.

 

 

This is not the first time I have heard things like this. It has always baffled me what the heck it is about pork that blocks development of Chi or "resonating with Heaven" as a Taoist might put it.

 

And Drew Hempell goes on and on about how salt blocks the working of the vagus nerve which is involved in trasmuting Chi to higher levels of Shen, etc.

 

 

I really do find this stuff baffling. Heck...maybe Drew will check out this thread and explain what it is about Pork that so blocks this transmutation process.

 

This really sucks cause I actually like the taste of pork and some populations really depend upon it. Germans for example eat a lot of pork and not nearly as much chicken as Americans do.

 

I do try to eat more vegetables however but not for any particular spiritual benefits. It's mainly just because that's what research shows helps somewhat in avoiding 'poor dietary habit diseases' like diabetes, etc. It's a lot harder giving up grain though than I thought. Grain and grain byproducts are everywhere these days in all kinds of foods you'd never dream were in there. And people who live in the city don't have as many options as those in the suburbs for growing their own acres of veggies.

 

 

As to the Dalai Lama eating meat. Yes, he does. As I understand it his physicians advised him to do so because when he became full vegetarian his health deteriorated and so upon their advice he started re-incorporating animal products into his diet again. Of course some vegetarian advocates scolded him after that. Paul McCartney being one of them I heard. Anyway...Dalai Lama *also* makes promises to lead the beings (including the ones he eats) to spiritual enlightenment. This is a kind of aid I suspect very, very few meat eaters ever promise to give but it's (admittedly my opinion) sort of the sentiment behind a lot of cultures giving thanks to the 'gods' or the 'animal spirits' for laying down their lives to feed them.

 

Eating meat does not necessarily mean one vibrates at a lower level imo. The truest level is one's intent and willingness to go the distance to back up the aid offered to the animals one eats. Well...at least that's how I see it. But then...I don't know many people like me who go the distance and actually make offerings to Pretas many nights either like I do.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Waits for someone to point and laugh at her ignorant literalistic interpretation.

[JustARandomPanda]

The book "China study", a decades long research volume, on the shelves alot of bookstores, points to the vegetarian diet as being optimal. This is real research, real science, not the b.s. pseudo-science created by the meat and dairy industry.

 

 

Hmm....

 

 

I did some hunting on the China Study book. Actually it *was* skewed data from what I uncovered. The scientist basically cherry picked his data. I was really intrigued by the book but actual scientists also poured over the research and it's not as "clean" and unbiased as I had originally hoped it would be.

 

 

de paradise..you are much better off simply sticking to your original reasons for advocating for Vegetarianism. It is not a position I am unsympathetic to as I am trying to move in that direction more myself anyway (although I suspect I will always eat some meat - I'm surrounded by hardcore meat-eaters and lots of times they pay my food bills). Still I would not cite the China Study as solid research. It is not. Find another way to advocate for Vegetarianism if possible. There are many roads to the Tao.

[Ya Mu]

In case anyone missed it, I personally prefer a diet mostly consisting of fresh, cultivated by me because I am not too lazy to grow my own food, no pesticides added, vegetables. So my argument is about common sense, fact, experience, and regard for others instead of the intense fanaticism-without-real-thought look down upon anyone that needs meat in their diet expressed by so many in the world of vegetarianism. It is an "ism", alright.

 

OP.

In case all this crap expressed in this thread has given rise to any confusion, know that your original research was most likely correct. You may wish to give it a go but monitor how you feel. If you do not feel well after giving it a go, then consider a change and don't let emotionally charged nonsense posted on a forum influence you.

[Seth Ananda]

Nope, you simply don't have the clinical experience to recognize this as fact. I do. You simply have an opinion with no back up argument.

Lol, my 16.3 million healthy people was not a back up argument? and your counter is simply an appeal to authority, that being yours?

Have you ever heard of of someone with 'clinical experience' being mistaken?

Or even spot on most of the time, but occasionally in error?

Or are you an All Knowing Infallible physician?

 

I STILL haven't seen anyone of you guys so damn gungho here address the stuff I posted in my original post on this thread. Whatsamatter, no answers? You talk but say nothing.

Are you referring to me in the Gungho category? This is my first post!

And I did answer:

Massive solely vegetarian communities living very long healthy lives!

 

Are you upset because my answer KO'd your fairly weak arguments in one hit?

Is that why you resorted to claiming that "I talk but say nothing"? How is putting up facts about the worlds massive {and body type diverse} vegetarian communities saying nothing???

 

Guess who found out that eating meat had nothing to do with "spirituality"? http://www.dalailama.com/

Ask him if he does or does not NEED to eat meat.

Where did I make this a spiritual Issue?

Why did you post this to me? I already know the Dalai Lama eats meat, and I also know he feels guilty about it, as he said so to my friend.

My friend was over in Nepal {i think} helping them set up permaculture at the Dali Lamas request. The Dalai Lama was very Interested in the science side of permaculture and so wanted to be informed about every step of the system. My friend saw that they ate a lot of meat, so he said "we can add goats here, and harvest them as we get too many".

This horrified the Dali Lama, who said "We don't kill the animals we eat! It breaks the Bodhisattva vow"

My friend said "well Who kills them?"

Dalai said "People from other religions!"

My friend said "doesnt that break the bodhisattva vow? Doesn't getting someone else to kill for you condemn them to a hell rebirth?"

 

The Dalai Lama flew into a rage, and started shouting things like "what do you know you stupid westerner! How dare you judge our culture, its thousands of years old!..."

Then he started shaking his fists around and threatening to punch out my friend! [too much red meat anyone?]

At this time my friends friend, picked up his camera and took a picture of the Dalai in a rage, which immediately calmed the Dali down...

 

Later he apologized and said he feels guilty about the meat Issue, as so many Tibetan Buddhists, including him, continue to gorge on meat even when they no longer need too because they live out side of Tibet...

 

My friend had that pic as his screen saver for years.

 

Seth.

[Ya Mu]

This is not the first time I have heard things like this. It has always baffled me what the heck it is about pork that blocks development of Chi or "resonating with Heaven" as a Taoist might put it.

 

And Drew Hempell goes on and on about how salt blocks the working of the vagus nerve which is involved in trasmuting Chi to higher levels of Shen, etc.

 

 

I really do find this stuff baffling. Heck...maybe Drew will check out this thread and explain what it is about Pork that so blocks this transmutation process.

 

This really sucks cause I actually like the taste of pork and some populations really depend upon it. Germans for example eat a lot of pork and not nearly as much chicken as Americans do.

 

I do try to eat more vegetables however but not for any particular spiritual benefits. It's mainly just because that's what research shows helps somewhat in avoiding 'poor dietary habit diseases' like diabetes, etc. It's a lot harder giving up grain though than I thought. Grain and grain byproducts are everywhere these days in all kinds of foods you'd never dream were in there. And people who live in the city don't have as many options as those in the suburbs for growing their own acres of veggies.

 

 

As to the Dalai Lama eating meat. Yes, he does. As I understand it his physicians advised him to do so because when he became full vegetarian his health deteriorated and so upon their advice he started re-incorporating animal products into his diet again. Of course some vegetarian advocates scolded him after that. Paul McCartney being one of them I heard. Anyway...Dalai Lama *also* makes promises to lead the beings (including the ones he eats) to spiritual enlightenment. This is a kind of aid I suspect very, very few meat eaters ever promise to give but it's (admittedly my opinion) sort of the sentiment behind a lot of cultures giving thanks to the 'gods' or the 'animal spirits' for laying down their lives to feed them.

 

Eating meat does not necessarily mean one vibrates at a lower level imo. The truest level is one's intent and willingness to go the distance to back up the aid offered to the animals one eats. Well...at least that's how I see it. But then...I don't know many people like me who go the distance and actually make offerings to Pretas many nights either like I do.

...

Waits for someone to point and laugh at her ignorant literalistic interpretation.

Wow! Finally a well thought out and accurate post instead of the emotion dribble I have seen so far.

 

This is a kind of aid I suspect very, very few meat eaters ever promise to give but it's (admittedly my opinion) sort of the sentiment behind a lot of cultures giving thanks to the 'gods' or the 'animal spirits' for laying down their lives to feed them.

 

I think we would all be better off if we did this.

[mYTHmAKER]

Wow! Finally a well thought out and accurate post instead of the emotion dribble I have seen so far.

 

 

That's because you agree with it. LOL

[de_paradise]

Big teacher makes for a big ego. Rationalize it how you want. I write for OTHER readers who may have been raised in meat, but perhaps want to change and want some perspectives. Yamu, its not about you, really. Personally, I dont read the "meat" thread in the forum, but I think this is more suitable for the type of commendable contributions that you are making. Please dont write "yawn" at me.

Edited March 10, 2012 by de_paradise

[Ya Mu]

Lol, my 16.3 million healthy people was not a back up argument? and your counter is simply an appeal to authority, that being yours?

Have you ever heard of of someone with 'clinical experience' being mistaken?

Or even spot on most of the time, but occasionally in error?

Or are you an All Knowing Infallible physician?

 

 

Are you referring to me in the Gungho category? This is my first post!

And I did answer:

Massive solely vegetarian communities living very long healthy lives!

 

Are you upset because my answer KO'd your fairly weak arguments in one hit?

Is that why you resorted to claiming that "I talk but say nothing"? How is putting up facts about the worlds massive {and body type diverse} vegetarian communities saying nothing???

 

 

Where did I make this a spiritual Issue?

Why did you post this to me? I already know the Dalai Lama eats meat, and I also know he feels guilty about it, as he said so to my friend.

My friend was over in Nepal {i think} helping them set up permaculture at the Dali Lamas request. The Dalai Lama was very Interested in the science side of permaculture and so wanted to be informed about every step of the system. My friend saw that they ate a lot of meat, so he said "we can add goats here, and harvest them as we get too many".

This horrified the Dali Lama, who said "We don't kill the animals we eat! It breaks the Bodhisattva vow"

My friend said "well Who kills them?"

Dalai said "People from other religions!"

My friend said "doesnt that break the bodhisattva vow? Doesn't getting someone else to kill for you condemn them to a hell rebirth?"

 

The Dalai Lama flew into a rage, and started shouting things like "what do you know you stupid westerner! How dare you judge our culture, its thousands of years old!..."

Then he started shaking his fists around and threatening to punch out my friend! [too much red meat anyone?]

At this time my friends friend, picked up his camera and took a picture of the Dalai in a rage, which immediately calmed the Dali down...

 

Later he apologized and said he feels guilty about the meat Issue, as so many Tibetan Buddhists, including him, continue to gorge on meat even when they no longer need too because they live out side of Tibet...

 

My friend had that pic as his screen saver for years.

 

Seth.

LOL

Seth,

I know what you posted - I am not dumb. I was speaking to the overall thread after I posted my response to you.

I am also not dumb as to the tactics you just utilized in your so called argument.

 

And no, I am not an "overall authority". But guess what? NEITHER ARE YOU!

 

Yes, clinical experience, which you apparently have none of, is very important. Your response is so typical of people who do not care for others to the point that you criticize the Dalai Lama for doing something HIS body needed AS DIRECTED BY HIS PHYSICIAN. Are you so full of yourself that you think you know better?

 

My original argument, which was just posted again, was about the fact that eating meat does not make one less spiritual. This was why I mentioned it again. Also several other questions all of you veggie handshake people cannot seem to answer.

 

By the way I had a friend who just visited the Queen. They became old friends. She talked a lot of stuff that went over my friends head. My friend didn't agree with her.

[Ya Mu]

That's because you agree with it. LOL

I agreed with it because it was a well thought out post instead of emotional nonsense. What is difficult to understand about that?

[Ya Mu]

Big teacher makes for a big ego. Rationalize it how you want. I write for OTHER readers who may have been raised in meat, but perhaps want to change and want some perspectives. Yamu, its not about you, really. Personally, I dont read the "meat" thread in the forum, but I think this is more suitable for the type of commendable contributions that you are making. Please dont write "yawn" at me.

So you admit to your big ego. Nothing to do with meat eating.

I also write for the rights of people who need to eat meat, even though I personally do not like meat much.

 

This is getting boring, though, as no one YET had addressed the list of considerations I originally posted.

[de_paradise]

So you admit to your big ego. Nothing to do with meat eating.

I also write for the rights of people who need to eat meat, even though I personally do not like meat much.

 

This is getting boring, though, as no one YET had addressed the list of considerations I originally posted.

 

Noone's addressed them because this thread is not about you, as I have pointed out, but you've yet to grasp. Your posts are drop in the bucket, and with a unusually selective point of view of whats valid or not. (emotions not valid for addressing ethical questions, only logic valid in deciding what can be killed)

 

I agree with the boring part. Time to meditate. Love and healing.