From Jesus to Christ- The First Christians

[Immortal4life]

Here is the excellent PBS Frontline documentary "From Jesus to Christ- The First Christians".

Part 1-
http://video.pbs.org/video/1365214164/

Part- 2-
http://video.pbs.org/video/1365348518/

Article with Scholar Dr. Elaine Pagels on the Gnostic Gospels-
from jesus to christ: the story of the storytellers: the gnostic gospels

There is even further reading, and educational articles relating to the program on the PBS website.-
FRONTLINE: from jesus to christ - the first christians | PBS

Edited January 18, 2013 by Immortal4life

[Ulises]

[Creation]

Very interesting Ulises!

 

But Swami Vivekananda never refused to accept the historical Christ. Like Krishna,

Christ, too, has been revealed in the spiritual experiences of many saints.

 

This is the attitude that I have tended towards as well. But Vivekananda's vision does give one pause (if one believes in such things, as I do).

[Vmarco]

[Immortal4life]

Frontline is awesome.

 

Robert Eisenman`s ideas are very interesting, however, I don`t think they are considered fact or are the scholarly consensus. I don`t know if James the Just was the teacher of Righteousness, but Mary, Joseph, and James must have at least been members of the Essenes.

 

More about the historical Jesus-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqJyk-dtLs

Edited March 9, 2012 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

[Naziri]

[Edward M]

Naziri,

 

Excellent post. thanks for clarifying that! +1

 

Do you know what the practices of the Essenes were? Being a christian myself i'm trying to find out what Jesus really would have taught and what practices he advised.

 

Thanks,

 

Edward (Nick's patient )

[Jetsun]

Naziri,

 

Excellent post. thanks for clarifying that! +1

 

Do you know what the practices of the Essenes were? Being a christian myself i'm trying to find out what Jesus really would have taught and what practices he advised.

 

Thanks,

 

Edward (Nick's patient )

 

What I know (which probably isn't that much) is that the Essenes placed a lot of emphasis on spiritual community and hard manual work, it was said they would work 12+ hours a day without tiring, but they wouldn't work mechanically like normal people they would work using methods of self attention to expand their consciousness while doing chores which fed them energy rather than tiring them out.

[thelerner]

This is your 3rd Post on Early Christians in 3 weeks. Nothing wrong with that but in the past you've snow balled them into 3 or 4 a week, until we have 20 or 30 on the board at the same time. Nothing wrong with a few, but you might want to keep them as a single thread or two so as not to 'pollute' the board with one persons singular interest. If individuals over post on specialized topics other conversations get pushed down and forgotten while the 'front' page ends up with 6 or 7 of virtually the same topic. It hurts the flow and readability of the board.

 

Thats my usual rant, to be followed by your usual answer.

 

 

my 2 cents

Michael

Edited March 15, 2012 by thelerner

[Naziri]

Hey there Edward! Fancy seeing you here

 

The practices of the Essenes are pretty well documented. We have not only key texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls that tell us a LOT about them. But before we had these (most of them, though we did have the Damascus document for some time... maybe even all along in Judeo-Sufi communities, as we found it in the Cairo Genizah), we had folks like Philo, Josephus, Pliny and even later folks (into the second and third centuries CE) telling us about their practices.

 

The Essenes were not restricted to Qumran or a site like it. This is probably the BIGGEST misconception that Pop-Essene researchers have about them. In everything i have written on the Essenes, i ALWAYS make sure to cite historians who explained that while some of them were celibate and unmarried, others married and had children, as well as quotes that they were found "in every town" numbering in the thousands. This is important for understanding what happened to the Essenes in the galut.

 

It is also very interesting, from a Taoist perspective, that right around the same time, the Tien Shi and T'ai Ping movement were engaged in very similar activity, albeit far, far away in China... Seems to have been an interesting time.

 

The Essenes were communalistic in nature. They practiced semen retention and believed that it harmed the community to be around someone who had ejaculated in the past week. It would seem, correlating this with existing Jewish pietistic literature, that they saw this as weakening the individual, as sources speak about retaining semen prior to battle, etc. (that's another subject altogether).

 

They had a three year initiation period. They admitted anyone, Jew or non-Jew, as a full Jew after that conversion process, but they saw non-Essene Jews as non-Jews who required full conversion in the same way that a person from a non-Jewish background would require it. All Jewish sects at the time were engaged in wide-scale proselytizing and convert-making. The activity of John the Baptist seems to be that of an Essene convert-maker. Notably, the chronologically earliest canonical Gospel account was Mark, which begins not with a nativity story, but with vetting Jesus by explaining that he was initiated/converted as an Essene, by none other than John himself (who was probably filling the ROLE of "Moreh Tzedeq" in that generation... Eisenman fails to consider that this was a position, title rather than one single individual).

 

They were, according to some sources, vegetarian, but they seemed to make use of dairy and the leather from dairy animals that died of their own accord. The Talmud notes this - referring to the Essenes as "Chassidim Rishonim" - and says that this is the best leather for tefillin, klafim, etc.

 

Historians contemporary with them said they lived extraordinarily long lives, healed, could see the future, etc. These third party sources about them probably give us the most insight in some ways, as the DSS do not speak about these things, per se.

 

P.S. Username "Thelerner", i am assuming you are talking to the original poster of this topic? i haven't posted anything on this here. i'm replying to a single thread on the subject.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Naziri

[thelerner]

 

P.S. Username "Thelerner", i am assuming you are talking to the original poster of this topic? i haven't posted anything on this here. i'm replying to a single thread on the subject.

Yeah, this certainly isn't aimed at you or even saying this isn't a valid thread. Just saying in the past Immortal would post several of these topics each week and in my opinion (which does come off as judgmental, I'm not the topic police here), that was too many on very similar subject.

 

 

and for what its worth, I thought your post was well written and made good points about the Essenes.

Edited March 15, 2012 by thelerner

[Naziri]

Makes sense.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Interesting stuff I have never read before, Naziri. You mentioned you write about the Essenes? Any links to articles or books? Any other references you would recommend about accurate Essene history or practices?

 

Thanks.

[Naziri]

Who is the "Kosher Jesus"? How the Criteria of Historical Jesus Research Can Tell Us Who Jesus Wasn't

http://www.amazon.com/Kosher-Criteria-Historical-Research-ebook/dp/B007HOWUHS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825764&sr=1-1

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls on the Identity of Mashiach, the "Chosen One of God"

http://www.amazon.com/Scrolls-Identity-Mashiach-Chosen-ebook/dp/B0053H38X6/ref=sr_1_15?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825806&sr=1-15

 

The Sabaeans, Magians and Zandiqin As They Pertain To Islamic Origins

http://www.amazon.com/Sabaeans-Magians-Zandiqin-Pertain-ebook/dp/B004V4AN5S/ref=sr_1_17?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825806&sr=1-17

 

The Significance of the God Fearers in the Environment of Early Christianity: Gentile Sympathizers of Judaism and the Success of the Paulean Meme

http://www.amazon.com/Significance-Fearers-Environment-Christianity-ebook/dp/B004ISLS1A/ref=sr_1_26?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825916&sr=1-26

 

Also, Diaspora Essenism is discussed in

Revaluating and Interpreting the Sources on the `Isawiyah Jews

http://www.amazon.com/Revaluating-Interpreting-%60Isawiyah-%60Issuniyim-ebook/dp/B004OEKHG0/ref=sr_1_25?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825916&sr=1-25

 

i also can send any of these in PDF format. PM me for the info.

[Edward M]

Hey Naziri,

 

Thanks for that explanation.. i'm gonna look up the sources you suggest. Have the Gospel of Thomas already, it seems to me to be talking about uniting heart and mind as one in purity.

 

Jetsun, thanks, that sounds very fourth way type stuff... reminds me on the monk at the local thai buddhist monastery says doing your work is doing vipassana.

 

Peace

 

Edward

[Naziri]

Edward, check out the Jesus Seminar research, which includes assessment of Thomas, in these two works:

 

 

and

 

[Edward M]

Thanks, will do!

 

Peace,

 

Ed

[Naziri]

Peace bro.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Who is the "Kosher Jesus"? How the Criteria of Historical Jesus Research Can Tell Us Who Jesus Wasn't

http://www.amazon.com/Kosher-Criteria-Historical-Research-ebook/dp/B007HOWUHS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825764&sr=1-1

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls on the Identity of Mashiach, the "Chosen One of God"

http://www.amazon.com/Scrolls-Identity-Mashiach-Chosen-ebook/dp/B0053H38X6/ref=sr_1_15?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825806&sr=1-15

 

The Sabaeans, Magians and Zandiqin As They Pertain To Islamic Origins

http://www.amazon.com/Sabaeans-Magians-Zandiqin-Pertain-ebook/dp/B004V4AN5S/ref=sr_1_17?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825806&sr=1-17

 

The Significance of the God Fearers in the Environment of Early Christianity: Gentile Sympathizers of Judaism and the Success of the Paulean Meme

http://www.amazon.com/Significance-Fearers-Environment-Christianity-ebook/dp/B004ISLS1A/ref=sr_1_26?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825916&sr=1-26

 

Also, Diaspora Essenism is discussed in

Revaluating and Interpreting the Sources on the `Isawiyah Jews

http://www.amazon.com/Revaluating-Interpreting-%60Isawiyah-%60Issuniyim-ebook/dp/B004OEKHG0/ref=sr_1_25?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331825916&sr=1-25

 

i also can send any of these in PDF format. PM me for the info.

 

Thanks!

[Naziri]

No problemo bro.

 

Peace in and out.