Bagua: Configurations of Trigrams

[Astral Monk]

The bagua symbol is composed of 8 trigrams, each of which are associated with natural phenomena, numbers, powers, etc. It is used extensively in feng-shui geomancy and finds its way into martial arts in Bagua-zhang.

 

The trigrams, made of of broken and unbroken lines, reflecting yin and yang, are also arranged as hexagrams (two trigrams together) in the I-Ching.

 

The bagua has traditionally two configurations--pre (or early)-heaven and post (or later)-heaven.

 

 

Now, why is this?

 

Why is the bagua limited to these two diagrams?

 

Why is it not built as a visual representation of the I-Ching, with, for example, an inner (lower) bagua and an outer (upper) bagua that can be shifted around to form any of the 64 hexagrams?

 

Even still, there out to be at least 64 versions of the single-layer bagua. But we only see two, and these are routinely used for feng-shui and other purposes.

 

I'd be interested to hear any ideas about this. Even the positions of the trigrams relative to the bagua are important, ie, do the trigrams face 'inward' (lowest (bottom) lines at the top) or 'outward' (lowest lines at the bottom)?

 

One question we might ask is what the significance of the positioning of the trigrams in the existing bagua, eg, the pre-heaven bagua? For instance, why is 'heaven' at the top (south), opposite to 'earth' (north)?

 

8)

[ChiDragon]

The bagua symbol is composed of 8 trigrams, each of which are associated with natural phenomena, numbers, powers, etc. It is used extensively in feng-shui geomancy and finds its way into martial arts in Bagua-zhang.

 

The trigrams, made of of broken and unbroken lines, reflecting yin and yang, are also arranged as hexagrams (two trigrams together) in the I-Ching.

 

The bagua has traditionally two configurations--pre (or early)-heaven and post (or later)-heaven.

 

 

Now, why is this?

 

1. Why is the bagua limited to these two diagrams?

 

2. Why is it not built as a visual representation of the I-Ching, with, for example, an inner (lower) bagua and an outer (upper) bagua that can be shifted around to form any of the 64 hexagrams?

 

3. Even still, there out to be at least 64 versions of the single-layer bagua. But we only see two, and these are routinely used for feng-shui and other purposes.

 

4. I'd be interested to hear any ideas about this. Even the positions of the trigrams relative to the bagua are important, ie, do the trigrams face 'inward' (lowest (bottom) lines at the top) or 'outward' (lowest lines at the bottom)?

 

5. One question we might ask is what the significance of the positioning of the trigrams in the existing bagua, eg, the pre-heaven bagua? For instance, why is 'heaven' at the top (south), opposite to 'earth' (north)?

 

8)

1. It is too complicated to be answered here.

 

2. The I-Ching started with 8 trigrams to represent the eight phenomena. However, at later days, it was discovered that more symbols were needed. Therefore, the combinations of trigrams 8 x 8 to form 64 hexagrams for more expressions.

 

3. The later version was used for feng shui only.

 

4. To avoid any confusion, the way you have it is correct.

 

5. Heaven is on top was because when you look up the sky, it is above your head; and when you look down, Earth is below your feet.

 

For more info: please go here:

Explanation about Trigrams

[mYTHmAKER]

The bagua symbol is composed of 8 trigrams, each of which are associated with natural phenomena, numbers, powers, etc. It is used extensively in feng-shui geomancy and finds its way into martial arts in Bagua-zhang.

 

The trigrams, made of of broken and unbroken lines, reflecting yin and yang, are also arranged as hexagrams (two trigrams together) in the I-Ching.

 

The bagua has traditionally two configurations--pre (or early)-heaven and post (or later)-heaven.

 

 

Now, why is this?

 

Why is the bagua limited to these two diagrams?

 

Why is it not built as a visual representation of the I-Ching, with, for example, an inner (lower) bagua and an outer (upper) bagua that can be shifted around to form any of the 64 hexagrams?

 

Even still, there out to be at least 64 versions of the single-layer bagua. But we only see two, and these are routinely used for feng-shui and other purposes.

 

I'd be interested to hear any ideas about this. Even the positions of the trigrams relative to the bagua are important, ie, do the trigrams face 'inward' (lowest (bottom) lines at the top) or 'outward' (lowest lines at the bottom)?

 

One question we might ask is what the significance of the positioning of the trigrams in the existing bagua, eg, the pre-heaven bagua? For instance, why is 'heaven' at the top (south), opposite to 'earth' (north)?

 

8)

 

Briefly Early Heaven is in stasis. Wuji

Heaven at the top earth at the bottom they balance each other

Later Heaven has motion and is expanding like the universe. Taiji

Later Heaven has 4 yin phenomena grouped together and 4 yang grouped together indicating motion

 

Yin and yang

yin and yang combined - 4 combinations

4 combinations + yin and yang combinations - Bagua

The three line are doubled to become 64 hexagrams - Iching

 

out of time

[Harmonious Emptiness]

It's interesting that the trigrams in the early heaven bagua mirror each other in direct opposites of yin and yang.

 

"do the trigrams face 'inward' (lowest (bottom) lines at the top) or 'outward' (lowest lines at the bottom)?"

 

They face outwards with the bottom line facing inside the bagua.

 

 

 

Later Heaven has motion and is expanding like the universe. Taiji

Later Heaven has 4 yin phenomena grouped together and 4 yang grouped together indicating motion

 

Would you explain a bit more of what you mean by this mYTHmAKER? I'm trying to see what you mean by how they are grouped in the later-heaven in this way...

 

 

 

I thought I would see what the trigrams are when you put these baguas together to make hexagrams. The results seemed to reflect something about inner alchemy in a way...

 

South-West: Wind/Earth=46, Rising

 

West: Water/Lake=47, Exhaustion

 

North-West: Heaven/Mountain=26, Great Accumulation

North: Earth/Water=8, Closeness/Accord

 

North-East: Thunder/Mountain=27, Nourishment

 

East: Fire/Thunder=55, Abundance

 

South-East: Lake/Wind=61, Sincerity In The Center

South: Heaven/Fire=14, Great Posession

 

Seems kind of like a story line of development, or even of the classic myth:

Rising, Embarking on journey

Exhaustion, major setbacks

Great Accumulation, acquires wisdom

Accord, finds peace with situation

Nourishment, builds and prepares to obtain elixer

Abundance, attains elixer

Sincerity In The Center, learns from experience, finds true to self, enlightenment

Great Posession

 

Or else:

Rising, begin practice

Exhaustion, peak of practice

Great Accumulation, benefit from practice

Accord, inner harmony after practice

Nourishment, nourished by inner harmony

Abundance, fullness, jing transmutes as chi

Sincerity In The Center, chi transmutes to spirit, spirit returns to emptiness

Great Posession

 

 

Just a few random ideas..

 

Interested to hear others have to say..

 

Does anyone know how the early-heaven bagua is used in Feng Shui?

 

great topic, btw!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ChiDragon]

Does anyone know how the early-heaven bagua is used in Feng Shui?

 

The early-heaven bagua lays out the universe in the four main directions; and the four corner baguas are the geographic layout of China. It was not used for feng shui at all. Only the later-heaven was used for feng shui.

[joeblast]

 

 

Now, why is this?

Look into the alchemical interpretations

[zerostao]

 

here is a possible third one. due on about december 21, 2012

[mYTHmAKER]

 

Would you explain a bit more of what you mean by this mYTHmAKER? I'm trying to see what you mean by how they are grouped in the later-heaven in this way...

 

 

Take an Early Heaven and a Later Heaven diagram.

Over each trigram place a white square if the trigram is yin and a black square if the trigram is yang.

You will now see how they relate to each other.

Let me know if this clarifies it for you.

[ChiDragon]

Take an Early Heaven and a Later Heaven diagram.

Over each trigram place a white square if the trigram is yin and a black square if the trigram is yang.

You will now see how they relate to each other.

Let me know if this clarifies it for you.

What white and black squares are you talking about....???

 

Do you know how to determine the yin/yang attribute of the ba guas....???

[mYTHmAKER]

What white and black squares are you talking about....???

 

Do you know how to determine the yin/yang attribute of the ba guas....???

 

You make them up

Determine by research

 

I will post a picture later

[ChiDragon]

You make them up....???

That doesn't sound logical...!!!

 

 

One should be able to determine it by just looking at each trigram(gua).

Edited March 7, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

one is yang and two is yin, right?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

one is yang and two is yin, right?

 

 

Hai.

 

 

_____ Yang

 

__ __ Yin

[ChiDragon]

one is yang and two is yin, right?

 

I meant a trigram.

 

_____

__ __

_____

 

How do you determine this trigram is yin or yang....???

[Protector]

wait a second... EARLY HEAVEN BAGUA LOOKS LIKE TAIJI!!!

 

...

 

so does the later heaven bagua hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

edit: I think this is the moment I finally get how bagua works in relation to other systems, I probably looked at it for 10000 times now

Edited March 7, 2012 by Sinfest

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

O_o....

 

 

 

Push hands...?

[ChiDragon]

O_o....

 

 

 

Push hands...?

If Tai Ji was applied to martial arts. Then, Tai Ji is yin/yang. Push is yang, pull is yin.

[mYTHmAKER]

You make them up....???

That doesn't sound logical...!!!

 

 

One should be able to determine it by just looking at each trigram(gua).

 

How about assign white to yang and black to yin

 

Yang = heaven, mountain, thunder, water the abyss

Yin = earth, lake, fire, wind, lake (swamp)

[ChiDragon]

How about assign white to yang and black to yin

 

Yang = heaven, mountain, thunder, water the abyss

Yin = earth, lake, fire, wind, lake (swamp)

 

 

You got that right but not by assignment. Here is how you determine it.

 

Look at the least number of the yin/yang line in the trigram to determine the attribution. If the trigram has one Yin line, then, its attribute is Yin. One Yang line was considered to be Yang. The Philosophy was the more scarce, the more precious.

[mYTHmAKER]

 

You got that right but not by assignment. Here is how you determine it.

 

Look at the least number of the yin/yang line in the trigram to determine the attribution. If the trigram has one Yin line, then, its attribute is Yin. One Yang line was considered to be Yang. The Philosophy was the more scarce, the more precious.

 

assign black to a trigram if it has one yin line or three yin lines

assign white to a trigram if it has one yang line or three yang lines

Edited March 8, 2012 by mYTHmAKER

[Harmonious Emptiness]

assign black to a trigram if it has one yin line or three yin lines

assign white to a trigram if it has one yang line or three yang lines

 

Okay I see. So the pre-heavenly bagua follows balance (opposite trigrams facing each other) and post-heavenly is more in groups. How do you see the movement?

[mYTHmAKER]

Okay I see. So the pre-heavenly bagua follows balance (opposite trigrams facing each other) and post-heavenly is more in groups. How do you see the movement?

 

Here is a rough sketch with Early Heaven in the in the center and Later Heaven on the outside.

Black indicates yin - white yang

Early Heaven is Yin - Later Heaven is Yang

Later Heaven is moving and expanding as indicated by the forms

Early Heaven is a static balance

Later Heaven is an asymmetrical balance which causes movement

 

You can compare how the two heavens relate to each other

This also illustrates that there is yin in yang and yang in yin

The gray in the center is what we've all been searching for

click to enlarge

Edited March 8, 2012 by mYTHmAKER

[ChiDragon]

Here is a rough sketch with Early Heaven in the in the center and Later Heaven on the outside.

Black indicates yin - white yang

Early Heaven is Yin - Later Heaven is Yang

Later Heaven is moving and expanding as indicated by the forms

Early Heaven is a static balance

Later Heaven is an asymmetrical balance which causes movement

 

You can compare how the two heavens relate to each other

This also illustrates that there is yin in yang and yang in yin

The gray in the center is what we've all been searching for

click to enlarge

 

I cannot follow this at all...

[zerostao]

Here is a rough sketch with Early Heaven in the in the center and Later Heaven on the outside.

Black indicates yin - white yang

Early Heaven is Yin - Later Heaven is Yang

Later Heaven is moving and expanding as indicated by the forms

Early Heaven is a static balance

Later Heaven is an asymmetrical balance which causes movement

 

You can compare how the two heavens relate to each other

This also illustrates that there is yin in yang and yang in yin

The gray in the center is what we've all been searching for

click to enlarge

 

 

nicely done

[mYTHmAKER]

I cannot follow this at all...

 

Exactly what don't you understand