Meat eating thread

[i am]

I usually get my fish from our natural food store, and I get the stuff that says "wild caught". I'll admit that fish isn't necessarily a better meat to get from the store, but I think in most non-farmed situations, it's much cleaner (other than mercury...) than any land-animal meat.

 

Either way, that's been my choice. No farm animals, red meat, or anything like that in my house from the grocery store. But I'll allow fresh, fished salmon and some other fishes. Too expensive to do very often. It's a pretty "loose" rule, I don't say that I must not eat that stuff, but I've been surprised at how well I've followed those guidelines.

 

The Taoist monks I met were vegetarian. Most of the "regular" taoists I met were omnivores.

[Stosh]

As far as I recall the only meat forbidden the Hindi are monkey and cattle.

 

I think it was just some sect of Buddhism that went vegetarian.

 

My Buddhist friend here in real life eats all meat except for the water buffalo. Domesticated cattle are allowed.

Well then , since you have this here backgound ,

Buddha ate meat

Lao and Chuang had no problem with butchers or cooked fish

Hindus can eat most meat

Non monk Taoists eat meat

Some buddhists dont eat meat

Monk Taoists dont eat meat

So , in your opinion ,who the heck is it that started the darn vegetarian thing?

It still seems a result of failing to understand the original messages

by somebody! and the only group metioned to go that way was either

Buddhist or Taoist, and there is nothing I see in the TTC or Chuang zi

that doesnt in fact contradict it.

So I figure that leaves Huang lao or the proto-hindu religions, which I am not at all familiar with.

 

 

Stosh

Edited October 24, 2012 by Stosh

[i am]

It's a good question. I haven't studied the classics like I should, so I don't know. It makes sense to me that Buddhists, believing all beings are sentient and should not be harmed, might choose no meat. It makes sense to me from a moral standpoint to be vegetarian. I can see both sides. But when it became understood that eating meat doesn't jive with spirituality (if that did in fact ever really happen), I don't know.

 

But then when did Jesus say "thou shalt not allow women or blacks into thy church or clergy, thou shalt damn to hell anyone who does not receive Jesus Christ as their personal savior", etc...

 

So probably it became indoctrinated when someone with a high position and persuasive powers decided they didn't think eat meat was kosher : )

[Stosh]

It's a good question. I haven't studied the classics like I should, so I don't know. It makes sense to me that Buddhists, believing all beings are sentient and should not be harmed, might choose no meat. It makes sense to me from a moral standpoint to be vegetarian. I can see both sides. But when it became understood that eating meat doesn't jive with spirituality (if that did in fact ever really happen), I don't know.

 

But then when did Jesus say "thou shalt not allow women or blacks into thy church or clergy, thou shalt damn to hell anyone who does not receive Jesus Christ as their personal savior", etc...

 

So probably it became indoctrinated when someone with a high position and persuasive powers decided they didn't think eat meat was kosher : )

 

Sounds like youre on the same page as I

Like if you think humans get reincarnated as animals that would put the kibosh

on eating them.

That makes good enough sense

But I just dont get the idea that its somehow Natural

and virtuous that a cat can eat a bird and a bird can eat a fish and a fish can eat a bug

but for a human to have compassion they have to not eat normal food , stare into space

a good portion of the day, and deconstruct their identity.

Stosh

the monestary still hasnt called for some reason

[Marblehead]

So , in your opinion ,who the heck is it that started the darn vegetarian thing?

It still seems a result of failing to understand the original messages

by somebody! and the only group metioned to go that way was either

Buddhist or Taoist, and there is nothing I see in the TTC or Chuang zi

that doesnt in fact contradict it.

So I figure that leaves Huang lao or the proto-hindu religions, which I am not at all familiar with.

 

Stosh

I tried responding to this earlier but the board lost its memory and left me sitting with a blank page.

 

It likely started with some young girl or boy who had made a pet and imaginary friend out of some duck, goose, or rabbit that their father slaughtered for Thanksgiving dinner. They swore they would never eat meat again and started spreading the word.

 

And I agree that there is nothing in the TTC or The Chuang Tzu that suggests eating meat is forbidden. We know from his stories that he fished for his supper and that he ate goose.

 

There is something that he said that could be used as grounds for not eating mammal meat but that would be a stretch.

[Marblehead]

It makes sense to me that Buddhists, believing all beings are sentient and should not be harmed, might choose no meat. It makes sense to me from a moral standpoint to be vegetarian.

Yeah. If a Buddhist is one of those who believes that reincarnation includes the non-human animals it would be understandable that one would not eat meat because, afterall, one wouldn't want to be eating their father who had reincarnated into a pig.

[i am]

Agreed.

 

I do still say...we as humans, we alone have the choice. I wouldn't say you should feel bad about eating meat, but I think it's an important point. Every other living being is just doing what it does naturally. Even though as I'm writing this I'm smiling to myself because that's exactly what the Tao says us humans should do, too...but I can understand why a lot of people would be vegetarian. We have the choice, to not kill another animal for food. We have to kill plants, but most of us would agree that's a lesser "evil". We can choose to kill an animal for meat, or not. As much as we're just another part of the natural system, I can't help but think we're somehow different, if only in the sense that we can choose what our diet will consist of. But if we're trying to be "natural"...well, I just don't know.

 

I like my meat, feel healthy when I eat it, and for now, have come to terms with the killing part.

[GrandmasterP]

I reckon more folk would be veggies if they had to hunt and prepare their own meat.

Did you know that hunting with bow and arrow is illegal in England?

Even with powerful compound or cross bows.

[i am]

I agree. That was another part of the deal I made with myself, and it made me hesitant to hunt...if I shot something, and was all torn up about it for months, weeks, or even days...well, maybe I'm not a meat eater after all. If I can't do it, do I feel good about someone else doing it for me? This is a standard I hold no one but myself up to, but I think if more people were this way, we'd have way less meat consumption, which would unarguably be a good thing. It's insane how much water alone it takes to raise cattle, not to mention all that it takes to feed them, and the waste entering the water supply from the feedlots full of them.

 

A lot of people are in an area where they can't hunt, and I get that. But I think if we all really understood what it takes, and what toll it takes, to put that meat on our table, we'd at least cut down quite a bit on how much we eat.

[Stosh]

There is that saying about being a child , and doing childish things

and then getting older one puts them away.

Kids may think they will go down the drain with the bathwater

The expectation is that one learns and grows

 

Butchery is tough work , yes ,

even cleaning fish or fowl is

but the fact that laziness is normal doesnt

really validate vegetarianism

Understanding the labor of it doesnt change

my enjoyment of a grilled steak or

a lightly breaded pompano fillet.

 

I like the whole thing of catching bait

plying the shores waters , bringing in some nice

whiting or flounder, popping those bad boys on ice

cleaning them up to cook , making them just right

and setting down to a meal so fresh you just cant buy it.

 

Stosh

[i am]

Oh I agree with that.

 

For me, hunting is exciting. Everything up to when I come up to the animal after I've shot it. Sometimes it still has a little life in it, other times not. Every time, I'm a little sad that I took a life. A 100-500 pound land mammal is a very different thing to take the life of, for most of us, than a fish. Or even a bird, really. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. For me, anyways. Too much like my dog.

 

It's not the labor that would turn most people off (most people I know bring their deer and elk to a butcher/wild game processor anyways), though it does stop quite a few, it's the actually act of killing, and the immediate aftermath of understanding what you've done. That is the part that I have to continually decide whether I'm ok with. That is part I refuse to contract out to someone else if I ever lose the stomach to do it. If that happens, I stop eating meat.

 

Agreed, there's something very special about sitting down to a dinner of meat and veggies that you killed, processed, grew and plucked out of the ground. It takes a lot of the work out of actually making an effort to think of where your food came from, and have a connection to it. It makes me think that way about everything I eat now. I can't even think of most things that I'm fed at meetings and conferences as "food". It's edible, but has no value other than caloric.

[theurgy]

Mrs Gradmaster Ps spicy shroom burgers had our builders begging or more when we recently had a gang in building some walls outside. Big lads, big appetites all wanted the recipe.

 

I don't suppose you'd care to share that recipe with the bums? This builder's mouth is watering at the prospect of anything that sounds as good as "spicy shroom burger" !!!!!

[eye_of_the_storm]

What if we look at it from collective energetic perspective?

 

150 billion animals slaughtered every year?

 

and the emotional energy / fear / terror / pain etc radiating on the planet?

 

Technically I am pescetarian - though I don't eat fish all that often / I think my last fish was some salmon sushi about a month ago.

 

Still taking a life... :/

[Stosh]

We live on a finite planet

all lives take lives

either by attacking or running or getting there first or

taking what there is

Anybody who wants to

can pretend they have some moral upperhand,

but who is it they are wanting to impress?

 

If you live

you eat, you occupy, you take etc

And if all life out there is one big super blob of life

then one part of super blob took from another part of superblob.

Net change is zero.

Stosh

[eye_of_the_storm]

who?

 

nobody - it is just the right thing to do really... I feel.

[GrandmasterP]

cashew nuts coarsely crushed

Cheese we like Cheddar but any cheese is food

Eggs two

Flour

Chopped leeks

Some herbs

Loads of mushrooms

Breadcrumbs

Bit of Marmite

 

Makes enough to fill a loaf tin.

Fashion into burgers and grill.

Yu can just whack it all into the loaf tin and bake ghat then slice it.

Bleddy tasty.

[GrandmasterP]

Some herbs

Is what makes it spicy or not. We put pimenton and chile pepper but you can put any in you like depending on if you like spicy or savoury or bland.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Cayenne pepper

[GrandmasterP]

Yep that'd work too, we prefer pimenton which is a smoked variety of various heats. You can buy a selection on Amazon UK and it comes in lovely tins direct from Spain, not at all expensive.

[Stosh]

Another vote for cayenne , I will express, after I pick up some ingredients

Whats Marmite?

A tiny marmot?

Stosh

[GrandmasterP]

A strange English conserve made from a byproduct of vegetable fermentation. Comes in a jar and looks a bit like thick browny black molasses.

You can buy it on eBay or from Amazon UK also in Brit expat shops in places like Florida where we still have colonies

Delicious on toast on its own and used as a seasoning by veggies.

You either love it or hate it, never any in betweens with Marmite.

I love it.

Two big teaspoons in boiling water makes a hearty hot drink for cold snowy days.

Very versatile stuff.

[Stosh]

Ill check out 'Whole Foods' for it.

 

You still have colonies here ?

I though all Yall would have dessicated under our southern sun

All it usually takes is a few days at disney

and we got pink fried brits

Stosh

[Protector]

Whenever someone brings up some vegetarian recipe I think, "man, imagine how good would that taste with some meat in it"

[Stosh]

Minced bangers maybe

Stosh

[Marblehead]

... shops in places like Florida where we still have colonies

I saw that and you are wrong. The Spanish have reclaimd Florida.