Meat eating thread

[Marblehead]

Trick is to choose your battlefields as far away from home as possible to save domestic mess.

Yep. That was the arguement regarding Afghanistan. Better there than here.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Marblehead

[GrandmasterP]

Poland was always handy in Europe.

Always good for a practice run and dress rehearsal prior to the main event was Poland.

Anecdotally there was a Krakow published travel guide of the 19th Century entitled...

 

'So you are an invading army. Welcome to Poland. Twenty must-visit sites for the soldier on a budget'

 

We had Ireland for a while, that was handy.

Gave the boggy bits back to the locals eventually but kept Ulster with its fine harbours and resources for ourselves .

Seem to remember we burnt down Washington back in the day too.

Fine old tradition of the British Army was making a hell of a mess in someone else's back yard as faraway from home as possible.

Aerial bombing popped that bubble but it was good whilst it lasted.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

you two have thoroughly disgusted me with the idea that human beings are less important than the military. FOR EXAMPLE: "Trick is to choose your battlefields as far away from home as possible to save domestic mess." This clearly deprives the us-versus-them, "them", of validity as a person or being. Yep. That was the arguement regarding Afghanistan. "Better there than here." right, because they deserve it, and "we" somehow "don't"? Seems a little two-faced. dosent it? That you don't want to incur binding karma in your life, but it's okay for a nation to debase and disregard humanity??? Self defense, die on my feet. I will fuck your army up even if it means the death of me for I am unwilling to cooperate with such ignorant and asinine trespasses against the god given gift of free will.

OUR RIGHTS AS HUMAN BEINGS ARE TO POSSESS OUR FREE WILL AND DO WITH IT AS WE PLEASE. SO LONG AS THE INDIVIDUAL HAS NO TRESPASSES AGAINST OTHERS, OTHERS SHOULD HAVE NO REASON TO TRESPASS AGAINST ANY INDIVIDUALS.

 

Military is an act of enforcing. I do not and can not cooperate with unconsentual force weather it is applied to my individual self or YOURS, i will protect ALL persons' free will, so long as they have not forsaken others' god given right.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Marblehead]

Well, it's nice to know that you are thoroughly disgusted. It's also nice to know that you would "... fuck your army up even if it means the death of me ..." That's so brave!

 

So I guess you think it is okay for terrorists to go around the world killing defenseless children and women? You think it is okay for men to throw acid in the face of young girls who want nothing more than an education? This is the kind of behavior the US, NATO, and many other countries are fighting against.

 

But you suggest that this is okay because they are only expressing their free will. BULLSHIT!!!!!

 

So you go ahead and feel safe in your little Oregon town - a place where the terrorists won't be going because there is nothing in it for them.

 

I really doubt that you would be willing to move to Afghanistan and start a school for orphaned girls? Your holiness wouldn't even get a school built before the terrorists would burn down what was started, kill you and anyone who was helping you.

 

If you are going to stand strong to the thought that all have the right to their own free will you must include the statement "... and do harm to none." If your free will is to do harm to others who have done no harm to you then you will be hunted down and killed.

[GrandmasterP]

Well it's no great shakes isn't army life for sure but as sure as eggs is eggs my great grandad, my grandad, my dad, me and my two lads have all had some and all been shot at for our troubles. Grandad being the unlucky one, he had a piece of shrapnel in him from Passchendale right up to his passing in 1984. The rest of us were lucky.

Thing is, as long as someone is out there drawing enemy fire then the folks back home can sleep safe abed of a night.

Yours is a fair comment Judo, nobody likes the idea of wars and such but they are as much a part of life as is art and music and someone has to participate so that others don't.

Not defending it at all, that's just how it is.

[Aetherous]

It becomes problematic when we discuss individual actions relating to generalities of enormous groups of individuals.

 

Did that sentence make sense? I'm a little drunk.

[Protector]

It becomes problematic when we discuss individual actions relating to generalities of enormous groups of individuals.

 

Did that sentence make sense? I'm a little drunk.

 

THAT'S THE "SPIRIT"

[eye_of_the_storm]

Well, it's nice to know that you are thoroughly disgusted. It's also nice to know that you would "... fuck your army up even if it means the death of me ..." That's so brave!

 

So I guess you think it is okay for terrorists to go around the world killing defenseless children and women? You think it is okay for men to throw acid in the face of young girls who want nothing more than an education? This is the kind of behavior the US, NATO, and many other countries are fighting against.

 

But you suggest that this is okay because they are only expressing their free will. BULLSHIT!!!!!

 

So you go ahead and feel safe in your little Oregon town - a place where the terrorists won't be going because there is nothing in it for them.

 

I really doubt that you would be willing to move to Afghanistan and start a school for orphaned girls? Your holiness wouldn't even get a school built before the terrorists would burn down what was started, kill you and anyone who was helping you.

 

If you are going to stand strong to the thought that all have the right to their own free will you must include the statement "... and do harm to none." If your free will is to do harm to others who have done no harm to you then you will be hunted down and killed.

 

How much is propaganda and how much is truth?

 

I don't see how "liberation" involves depleted uranium ammunition / other chemical warfare (causing genetic corruption etc infertility and so on)

 

+ in addition to a good number of these dictators in the middle east being CIA programs/operatives same with South America.

 

My problem is not with the soldier but with the government/ falsehoods etc.

 

Always hidden agendas.

 

I think the offical Iraqi story was changed about 3, 4 times? ha

 

I think the world has had enough of the European mans/ white mans interventions... at many levels.

 

Though to be clear I think the US population + others have become a pawn of Israel.

 

- Similar happen to Russia...not sure if Russia is free or not / independent nation /people as of today?

 

Anyhow

 

Maybe they dont want "education", "democracy" other human and animal rights...

 

Something odd too..??

 

While we are in the middle east fighting against apparent radical ideologies and other injustices our governments are allowing mass immigration into our country of these extremists"

 

Allah is above all...law country people etc... which is fair enough.

 

The idea that these people can be assimilated... or that we assimilate with them is loco however / extreme ignorance or malicious intent.

 

It is just a numbers game... with few they are quiet as the grow in number they become more aggressive... once they have the majority it is game over for the host nation...eg India and muslims burning down hindu temples... or buddhist temples etc.

 

In the Qur'an apparently there is made reference to 2 types of nations...those of Islam and those that need to be converted to Islam... which is fair enough... at least they are honest with their intentions.

 

I agree with their banking system very much so.

 

The Christian tradition also heavily condemned Usury for a long time..as did many Greek philosophers... early Christianity being heavily influenced by Greek thought...

 

This change devastating upon the world...accepting usury as ok... before it being a deadly sin.

 

ah where was I...hmm

 

ah yes I think we should give other peoples room to breathe / self determination etc until they come to a point of wanting to interact with us.

 

Similar to the approach they are taking with the remote tribes in the Amazon...

 

Internationalism / Globalism this... "liberation" is just to expand consumerism / expand profits... expand global domination... to destroy true culture... and implant MTV generation of mindless drones.

 

$$$$$$$

 

Please watch The Business of War Documentary it is only 20 minutes long and with shatter a number of misconceptions.

 

Edited January 6, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

It becomes problematic when we discuss individual actions relating to generalities of enormous groups of individuals.

 

Did that sentence make sense? I'm a little drunk.

Yes, it did make sense and yes, I got caught up in it again. I guess I'm still not perfect. Oh well.

[Marblehead]

How much is propaganda and how much is truth?

Of what I said? Most of it was BS. I voice my opinion. Sometimes I exaggerate. Sometimes I have no idea what I am talking about.

 

The exchange didn't even have anything to do with eating meat.

[Aetherous]

Yes, it did make sense and yes, I got caught up in it again. I guess I'm still not perfect. Oh well.

 

Not being critical of you!!!

[eye_of_the_storm]

I was talking about acid throwing arabs... :/

 

(don't get me wrong... I have seen some terrible things done in those countries...)

 

and the terrible Hun eating babies etc... (see relevant!)

 

 

The how much is propaganda and how much is truth?

 

Wasnt directed at you really...

 

just saying we are being sold these ideas... but to what end? what is the agenda... are their intentions good.

 

Say women are truly and totally suppressed under Islam... is that the real motivation of the government to want to be there... or is that what they sell to get public approval.

 

Like the whole Kony 2012 thing... excellent psyoperation to fool the public and allow the US to send more troops into Africa to secure assets/resources etc

 

under the guise of "humanitarian"

 

wouldn't it be human(e) if we all went vegetarian? good for body, spirit and the earth as a whole.

 

Edited January 6, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ShenLung]

Back to the "meat" discussion. Did you like how I kept the military man in ShenLung's scenario?

 

You were going to eat the priest, weren't you?

 

It's an odd thing, but the soldier's job is to protect the lives that he or she is entrusted with, not to simply don a uniform, take up arms, and kill things. I shouldn't have put a priest into the scenario, makes it sound like a sick tavern joke

 

The general idea was to get people thinking about what it would mean if there was a genuine possibility that they themselves would be on the menu. It might not make someone go Veg, but it's a thought to chew on.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I was not aware that I was being eaten... that wasn't apart of the original scenario was it?

Edited January 6, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ShenLung]

I was not aware that I was being eaten... that wasn't apart of the original scenario was it?

 

Yes, yes it was.

 

Don't go getting caught up in that relative worth differential and back out of the "noble way to go"

that you mentioned now!

Edited January 6, 2013 by ShenLung

[eye_of_the_storm]

ahah.... :/ damn I missed that part...

 

It said survive 60 days?!

 

I won't be eaten

 

Change of plans... the priest and botanist are weak compared to me... they have a much less chance of surviving... too risky

 

The priest will understand because he is enlightened... if he can share enlightenment with the world he can share it with me... who can share it with the world...

 

The Botanist can also share his knowledge with me

 

Though I already know how to cure all diseases soo...

 

Also I won't be eating either of them

Edited January 6, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

Back to the "meat" discussion. Did you like how I kept the military man in ShenLung's scenario?

Yes I did. Regretfully, there will always be the need for a police force of some type within societies and between societies. This is, IMO, because there will always be those who just will not do the right thing. For example, there will always be those who go out and "sport" kill animals, leaving the meat to rot instead of taking it to a charity to be used to feed the hungry.

 

Ha! I got two threads (meat eating and anarchy) mixed in with that one paragraph.

[eye_of_the_storm]

eating meat is theft

 

totally against the will of another being

 

there is no right

Edited January 6, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

I just never got it into meat eating really having been raised veggie.

The whole idea of eating meat still nauseates me if I stop to think about it, which I seldom do.

However for someone raised eating meat that's just what they do and in some places where veg are thin on the ground due to climate and topography such as Tibet they have to eat a lot of meat just to survive cos there's nothing much else on offer.

If the choice was between eating meat or starving to death then I'd eat meat, might not enjoy it but suspect I'd enjoy death by starving a lot less so a nice plump priest slow roasted.............

Edited January 6, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Flolfolil]

i once had a vegan tell me that carnivorous animals were morally wrong for eating meat, along with people who live in areas where meat is the only option. In my own kitchen nonetheless!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Well it's no great shakes isn't army life for sure but as sure as eggs is eggs my great grandad, my grandad, my dad, me and my two lads have all had some and all been shot at for our troubles. Grandad being the unlucky one, he had a piece of shrapnel in him from Passchendale right up to his passing in 1984. The rest of us were lucky.

Thing is, as long as someone is out there drawing enemy fire then the folks back home can sleep safe abed of a night.

Yours is a fair comment Judo, nobody likes the idea of wars and such but they are as much a part of life as is art and music and someone has to participate so that others don't.

Not defending it at all, that's just how it is.

I meant not to offend anyone with my sharp words, but the whole thing seemed a little two faced to me, since it can be applied to BOTH "us" and "them"... or BY both. and that means the only true war, with fairness is in an unoccupied territory... and since "collateral damage" only happens to occupied locations.... I cannot help but feel disdain toward anyone who thinks it okay, or better, to "fight on 'their' land not close to home", since you're just telling them, basically, to do the same to you. and why shouldn't they?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

If you are going to stand strong to the thought that all have the right to their own free will you must include the statement "... and do harm to none." If your free will is to do harm to others who have done no harm to you then you will be hunted down and killed.

Sorry, marbles, I see after the fifth read over where we missed it; I did mean to say that, and felt it was covered well enough with "SO LONG AS THE INDIVIDUAL HAS NO TRESPASSES AGAINST OTHERS, OTHERS SHOULD HAVE NO REASON TO TRESPASS AGAINST ANY INDIVIDUALS." Since I consider the act of neglecting the free and consenting will of an outside individual an act of trespass, sin, crime, etc. I tend to define the words too much alike to distinguish them that much. In other words, Your free will is your only genuine property, as it is the only thing that will last as forever as your genuine true self, i.e. spirit. to disregard the free will of another includes nonconsensual physical approach (touch, strike, etc.), or to procure gain from one's own creation/work (slavery, theft, plagiarism-to an extent)... these are all crime/trespass/sin each word defines each act equally... with free will as law.

[ShenLung]

There are some serious problems with adopting 'preemtive war' theory, and abandoning 'Jus ad Bellum'.

The occasional necessity, perhaps ... but making it the routine business of national defense creates more problems in the long run, imo.

[GrandmasterP]

Yep, I respect what you are saying Judo it's pretty unpalatable, howsoever pragmatic; is fighting wars away from home. It can't ever be ethically justified nor would I seek to attempt to do so.

'Do unto others' and all that

Just that with an aggressor enemy, sometimes; it's maybe best to do unto them.....

First.

Edited January 6, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Sorry, marbles, ...

No problem. I just wanted to make sure we were still talking with each other and not just at each other.

 

Yes, I can be an idealist. But I am generally a realist.