Strange things about Ren and Du Channel

[Friend]

[ChiDragon]

[Chang]

I have look into Ren and Du. While the Du is on the middle Ren on the back is strange.

When the spine begins the channels runs at the side of the spine of the spinous process.

It is not clear to me if then on both sides of the channel are channels. And if not

it would be more interesting to find out on which side it runs.

 

You have lost me here and I wonder what you are getting at. Are you getting muddled with the ayurvedic system and the Sushumna, Ida and Pingala ?

 

The Nadis

Edited March 12, 2012 by Chang

[zanshin]

Fabulous topic, that I certainly don't understand as well as I should and don't know Jerry Johnson. It's Taoist meridians and acupuncture theory. Du is longer yang channel with more points from coccyx to roof of mouth, I know it as straight up the back and not 2 channels. Ren is midline front of body yin channel. Flow in MCO is supposed to be like embryonic state yang to rise and yin to sink making one continuous circuit, yang flowing into yin and yin into yang, but this rarely happens in adults.

[zanshin]

ok, re-read your post re. Ren on the back and thought maybe I was confused. Found this.

 

http://www.latcmwellnesscenter.com/11.html

 

If you click on Ren meridian and Du meridian on side bar can see pictures of meridians with points

[Friend]

You have lost me here and I wonder what you are getting at. Are you getting muddled with the ayurvedic system and the Sushumna, Ida and Pingala ?

 

The Nadis

 

Absolutly not. The Sushuma is more likely the Zhong Mai and I talk about strangeness about the the Ren and Du.

 

Fabulous topic, that I certainly don't understand as well as I should and don't know Jerry Johnson. It's Taoist meridians and acupuncture theory. Du is longer yang channel with more points from coccyx to roof of mouth, I know it as straight up the back and not 2 channels. Ren is midline front of body yin channel. Flow in MCO is supposed to be like embryonic state yang to rise and yin to sink making one continuous circuit, yang flowing into yin and yin into yang, but this rarely happens in adults.

 

ok, re-read your post re. Ren on the back and thought maybe I was confused. Found this.

 

http://www.latcmwellnesscenter.com/11.html

 

If you click on Ren meridian and Du meridian on side bar can see pictures of meridians with points

 

 

At least you try to understand which is good. This DU is strangely in most chart on the middle line above the spine but in the book I own "The Way to Locate Acupoints" by Yang Jiasan I strangely found that the Du shifts with "Du15 Yamen" running at the side of the spine in the spinal process while in the most chart like the one you posted the point are on the spine when watched from above.

 

Also if you look carefully in the chart you post the point Renzhong below the nose is in the lower chart directly on the midline below the nose above the philtrum in the above chart the channel is shifted as well the point renzhong more the side below the nostril but only show on one side. As well very strange is this rhombic formed field below the C7 Spine. It result in the question of how broad the DU Channel actual is covering both side of the Spine it would be belong to a very broad channel.

But from the chart one can not see if it is one channel

-that only prefers one side

-Fixed on side

-Is build up from 3 Channels one in the middle and 2 at the side. (This would get very interesting Chang as it would appear to strangely build like the tantric

ayurvedic system.)

- Then there would be the question if it flows straigt up or move up like a coils.

- This difference would mess with guide of Qi in MCO. One imagines the Qi should run in the middle up but in fact the DU is shifted to the right side, then the success is

not very well as one guide it on the wrong places hit the acupoints but thats all.

Pretty difficult to move Qi in a MCO if one can not feel where the channel is.

 

As well if it runs circular how it the numbering explained- Du 1 start from below near coccyx and ends 28 in the mouth above the front teeth, well Ren 1 start at the perineum and ends below the lower lip. Generally a Meridian is numbered in a way it would also run in the Macrocosmic Orbit in the body. From 1 to Endnummber.

The Ren and Du seem to avoid this rule as all end in front of mouth like to be breathed in than do a circular flow.

[zanshin]

I don't think they're numbered for someone running small universe, flow changes in qigong practioner. So maybe numbering is more for acupuncture practitoner treating illness. Am pretty sure I'm right about ideal of how it should flow like a circuit. Will look more at diagrams later, the ones I posted were just some I found quickly, may certainly be better sources. Hope someone posts with good understanding.

[joeblast]

As well if it runs circular how it the numbering explained- Du 1 start from below near coccyx and ends 28 in the mouth above the front teeth, well Ren 1 start at the perineum and ends below the lower lip. Generally a Meridian is numbered in a way it would also run in the Macrocosmic Orbit in the body. From 1 to Endnummber.

The Ren and Du seem to avoid this rule as all end in front of mouth like to be breathed in than do a circular flow.

 

[Friend]

What it runs in both ways the same time..... uhhhh wow how does this channel manage that.

[effilang]

I think a qualified acupuncturist should be able to answer your question more clearly.

 

From what i understand the external path of the DU follows the spine centrally: http://www.icanm.com...es/ch8DuMer.asp

 

Having said that, i am not absolutely certain of the internal path of the meridian. I would assume since together with the Ren they compose the body's main Yang and Yin ching and only unilateral pair, that they would be right down the center line, especially since u have the Thrusting vessel between them too. These are all main meridians and if im not mistaken some of the first that form during early conception.

 

It's probably just my funny logic, but i can't imagine anything that early in creation being offset from the center.

Edited March 14, 2012 by effilang

[joeblast]

What it runs in both ways the same time..... uhhhh wow how does this channel manage that.

They're not normal channels - they're vessels, not quite the same thing Think resonances, harmonies. And even at that, if they did only run in one direction at a time, it is possible that it would switch or oscillate back and forth fast enough that you would not be able to notice - some of your nerves in the brain can fire hundreds of times a second in processing certain stimuli, and at those speeds our mechanics simply dont have the qualifying resolution to ascertain such things real time.

[gj551]

From what i understand the external path of the DU follows the spine centrally: http://www.icanm.com...es/ch8DuMer.asp[/img]

hey pal i cant see any DU points on the forehead (yintang?) but there arent an numbers missing in between

[Friend]

They're not normal channels - they're vessels, not quite the same thing Think resonances, harmonies. And even at that, if they did only run in one direction at a time, it is possible that it would switch or oscillate back and forth fast enough that you would not be able to notice - some of your nerves in the brain can fire hundreds of times a second in processing certain stimuli, and at those speeds our mechanics simply dont have the qualifying resolution to ascertain such things real time.

 

What is the difference of a vessel and channel in this discussion from your view Joeblast?

 

I also read from Donna Eden that DU and REN are some kind of Hybrid sharing Meridian

and strange flow function (extraordinary vessels)saying strange flow do not follow specific pathways (as Meridians does). Also this strange flow belong to an system which can be found in insects and primitive arcording Donna. The flows are more diffus then concentrated and react on thoughts and mood more like communication channel and energy "jump around". Back to DU and REN they are somewhere between and able to "transport" as Main Meridians do. One can read in the Internet about having add DU and REN to the main meridians and having 6 extraordinary and then other saying that the count into a 8 extraordiary.

 

One has also have to look into the Hua Tuo points they share the same strange change of start in the ealier on the spine then became between the spinous process.

 

Here I have a interesting chart with side channel

http://www.lieske.com/channels/5e-gc.htm

 

Edit: Looking at this give me also thoughts

http://www.meridiansofacupuncture.com/The_Spinal_Subluxation_and_its_treatment_by_Acupuncture.html

 

Look at the black spots which are not Bladder points

Edited March 14, 2012 by Friend

[joeblast]

Channels have associated structures, vessels connect them and have points from a few channels. Hybrid, yes, in that most vessels dont have points specific to the vessel like ren & du have.

 

I recall reading about the hua tuo points, now I will have to go review

[Aetherous]

hey pal i cant see any DU points on the forehead (yintang?) but there arent an numbers missing in between

 

FYI, yintang isn't part of any channel...just one of those extra points.

 

source = Deadman's manual

[寒月 Hanyue]

 

This is correct according to Johnson. Two circles. The 'numbers' are on the external aspects of the qimai, it is not the whole length of it. Additionally just because the ren and du have xue [locations] on the body it doesn't mean that is where they are. The Qijingbamai are NOT like the jingluo (regular channels) they are a different animal.

 

Neidan is NOT qigong and neither are TCM.

 

Best,

[Trunk]

I find that resonating a point on ren with the pt opposite on du, at various places, to be effective. And it doesn't dictate flow up/down in any pre-determined way.

 

~ later ~

And KYMQ from DGS prompts du & ren flow (amongst other things) in a way that does not dictate which direction.