Genuine Schools

[Jetsun]

The Sufi way is to be in the world but not of the world. Real inner work can be done anywhere at anytime. Every drop counts and it adds up.

 

This is true, but doing inner work within daily life is incredibly difficult because to do real inner work means creating a distance and separation between you and what is happening so you have the power not to be swept away by the hypnotism and drama of life, so you need a level of continual witnessing of what is happening but the crucial thing is to remain on the level of seeing but not reacting.

 

Many people think they can do inner work in the market place but if you observe them their lifeforce and identity get taken and absorbed within life very quickly and they fall back into their regular personality patterns very fast. It is almost impossible to remain in non reacting witnessing mode outside of silent meditation for any significant length of time without long training in how to do it. Some schools like some ancient Sufi ones specialised in how to work in the world, they had specific training to do with dividing your attention and remembrance to cultivate the ability to not get hypnotised by life, but most of those schools are now publicly lost.

[idquest]

What are people's take on studying with understudies of a lineage holder? For example, I'm strongly considering joining a Chen Tai Chi school, but the beginner classes might be taught by an understudy. Is it worth the same rate, or should I start at a school where the master instructor teaches the classes though may not have the same direct lineage proximity?

I'd say there are three types of taiji teachers:

- those who only show you how to do it right. It's up to you to pick up know-how

- those who show you how to do it right and also correct your movements

- those who correct you alignments, your posture, and explain the basics/fundamental principles.

 

I learned it hard way that the first two types of teachers are worse than useless unless you are truly gifted in body movements and alignments. If you want to begin your study under some grandmaster, keep in mind that he/she will likely be the first type teacher. And the lowest instructor will likely be a third type. The most useful IMO and IME.

[suninmyeyes]

This is true, but doing inner work within daily life is incredibly difficult because to do real inner work means creating a distance and separation between you and what is happening so you have the power not to be swept away by the hypnotism and drama of life, so you need a level of continual witnessing of what is happening but the crucial thing is to remain on the level of seeing but not reacting.

 

Many people think they can do inner work in the market place but if you observe them their lifeforce and identity get taken and absorbed within life very quickly and they fall back into their regular personality patterns very fast. It is almost impossible to remain in non reacting witnessing mode outside of silent meditation for any significant length of time without long training in how to do it. Some schools like some ancient Sufi ones specialised in how to work in the world, they had specific training to do with dividing your attention and remembrance to cultivate the ability to not get hypnotised by life, but most of those schools are now publicly lost.

There are many Sufi schools/teachings even in Europe, just go to Kosovo, Albania, Bosnia some places Macedonia, lot of Dervishes too over there , people teaching.

Just they are not so glamorous. Anyone can join prayers and learn . Most of those Sufis are doctors, farmers, shopkeepers - living in the normal world and practising.

As far as practises are concerned all one needs to do is set out regular schedule for daily practise , and get on with life and lifes chanllenges. Ability not to get hypnotysed by life develops usually slowly. Slowly, slowy .

Changes do happen , sometimes so slow that they are almost not noticable.

Spiritual practises DO help a lot if done on regular bases as a part of normal daily life . One just must keep on doing it no matter what, this is the trick and personality patterns will surley start dissolving.

The practises work as a type of fuel and 'psychological shower'at the same time.

Teacher can be very useful to many people.

Everything is difficult at the begging, in spirutual life is the same if not even more difficult , we must pass through high moutains , deserts ,oceans, jungles face all obstacles - alone . Sometimes mountains are super high and deserts seem neverending - so slowly but surley is a good pace.

My life has been completley transformed by meditational practises .

Just my 1 pence

[Friend]

[Owledge]

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

How would a child that experiences very little love in his life and thus develops a deficiency out of the natural longing for love develop barriers against love because of it? Seems counterlogical.

 

"Need" and "Want" are two different things. In German it it would be "Brauchen" und "Wollen". Desires are born out of Want. What you need enrich your entire being and others and give the benifits,. While the wants are the excess and the choice for harm for oneself or others. They are both side of a coin. But remember normally a coin has two different sides. And the difference is the balance.

Some interpretations of words are part of self-deception. "Want" is a more enlightened word than "need", because when you say you want something, you are aware that it is not really necessary, but when you say you need something, it is based on an aimed outcome that you consider undisputable, which it is not.

From a spiritual viewpoint: No, you don't NEED food. Your ego wants it for the purpose of self-preservation. Need and want are both conditional (or is "relative" a better word?), they are both FOR something. Thus it's important to see the difference. ( "Important" is another conditional word of course. )

I've recently examined in a very immature environment how people confuse this to the extreme and say they really need something that is actually mostly for vanity.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Owledge

[Jetsun]

From a spiritual viewpoint: No, you don't NEED food. Your ego wants it for the purpose of self-preservation. Need and want are both conditional (or is "relative" a better word?), they are both FOR something. Thus it's important to see the difference. ( "Important" is another conditional word of course. )

I've recently examined in a very immature environment how people confuse this to the extreme and say they really need something that is actually mostly for vanity.

 

How do you not need food? we may not need all the junk and sugar in our diets these days but the need for food is more than just an ego thing. The Buddha only gained enlightenment after he accepted food to nurture his body from a young girl after many years of austerity, his experiments of starving himself and denying himself didn't lead to realisation.

[Friend]

How would a child that experiences very little love in his life and thus develops a deficiency out of the natural longing for love develop barriers against love because of it? Seems counterlogical.

A good question . It is the rule of preserving the status quo. Everthing that is not status quo is not secure and seen as foreign and then flee, fight or freeze in the situation.

For some people it is normal when one hug one feel

loved and accepted, others feel that is strange since one feel nothing, and I feel rarely something from someone when I get hugged, just a strange cultural procedure. So someone would have love and show it in a hug and not accept as it not understand as love.

It has no meaning for oneself. One hug other out of courtesy. An most people understood while hugging the whole group they avoid it as they can feel it.

 

Also dogs feel this as well they would jump all over when they meet other people when they meet me they became still neither hostile nor overjoy, but more aware and they love when I stroke them falling in peaceful trance, they know I love stillness by other beings children alike feel it at and get more serious than acting childish in my presence, they sure get very curious about me but they do not went crazy,

they even stop in their wildness.

 

When one compare this with most average people arent this blockages? In seeking love outside I never get the love I seeked from other humans I always felt this artifical love, the do as if "I do accept you". I find peace when I am alone. I havent met many people who really emit love only people which act as if they are loving, acting out of duty to love as parent, as friend, as someone from a group, from a nation, from a race. So this why I agree with Rumi

that one has to dissolve ones own barrier.

One is selfresponsible for everthing that happens.

 

 

Some interpretations of words are part of self-deception. "Want" is a more enlightened word than "need", because when you say you want something, you are aware that it is not really necessary, but when you say you need something, it is based on an aimed outcome that you consider undisputable, which it is not.

From a spiritual viewpoint: No, you don't NEED food. Your ego wants it for the purpose of self-preservation. Need and want are both conditional (or is "relative" a better word?), they are both FOR something. Thus it's important to see the difference. ( "Important" is another conditional word of course. )

I've recently examined in a very immature environment how people confuse this to the extreme and say they really need something that is actually mostly for vanity.

 

So from the semantics which word would be unconditional? It seems you know a more proper word for the spiritual viewpoint. So do you think we need this body we have now, since we dont NEED food? Also I think I miss the "WHEN we have no EGO aka being in the state of responsibility to do the task which are ours and not of the EGO."

Also how you know you Dont NEED food is also from the EGO? Having EGO is good to deny and refuse an dualize matters and does not eating food makes on more spiritual than vegans, then meat eater, the all eater? Me thinks not.

 

And what are we doing? Where is the selfresponsibilty always pushing the fault "the ego the ego" it is oneself who allowed it. It is oneself fault. The ego is part of you. Dont make the leg responsible when one decide and jump into the cactus.

The Ego is like the Tiger the Deity are riding in hindu religion, a cool mount which is not meant to be a mount, a predator who helps to take to whereever the place is.

 

And the Genuine Schools are the same cultivating character and EGO is also in there

to that it help on cultivation. As when two goals not match one has a chaos

and one improve 1 step forward 2 step backwards like a crab, this sabotage. better have EGO as friend than an enemy. As when there are enemy, when are they friends?

And even if it is your enemy when you share the same goal you will cooperate.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Friend

[Thunder_Gooch]

You will find the best teacher your karma allows for, being financially able to travel is part of your karma, being lucky is part of your karma, finding a one in a billion teacher is the will of heaven.

 

I think there is plenty of public information that can take use to a level where our odds are drastically increased but in the end there still is no guarantee.

 

All we can do is the best we can with what we have.

 

This saying that you will find your teacher when you are ready is spoken a lot but what if it is false and you have to go out and put in the effort to find your teacher and genuine teachings? you have to get out of the house and go and search and not expect them to appear when you are ready. Perhaps a good teacher will bring you up to the level where you are able to be taught no matter the level you are at and maybe a good teacher can make you into a good student. In the story of Milarepa he had the karma of being a mass murderer yet he managed to find one of the great enlightened teachers Marpa as his teacher by going and searching for them with his own efforts so it may not just be about karma, i'm sure all the masters through history had students of different merit.

 

I have been reading some Master Nan Huai-Chin as recommended earlier in this thread and he confirms that the majority of what people are teaching as spiritual paths now are actually just distortions or fabrications of genuine teachings, most of the qigong, kundalini and energy methods being taught now will not lead out of the desire realm of human consciousness and many will just entrench you further. With the explosion of popularity of spiritual cultivation also comes an explosion of distortion and wrong interpretation of the teachings, so finding the real deal is not as simple as many people seem to assume.

[Owledge]

The Buddha only gained enlightenment after he accepted food to nurture his body from a young girl after many years of austerity, his experiments of starving himself and denying himself didn't lead to realisation.

There's your purpose. You want to reach 'enlightenment', whatever that is.

Some people say that the desire to reach said enlightenment will stand in the way of achieving it. Which would totally make sense then regarding the ego and what it is afraid of.

[Friend]

There's your purpose. You want to reach 'enlightenment', whatever that is.

Some people say that the desire to reach said enlightenment will stand in the way of achieving it. Which would totally make sense then regarding the ego and what it is afraid of.

 

This is something I agree with -the Ego like to hold things.

And one of the Magical Acts is to Let go. Like having a bird pigeon with a message on has to let it go so it can fly.

[Friend]

You will find the best teacher your karma allows for, being financially able to travel is part of your karma, being lucky is part of your karma, finding a one in a billion teacher is the will of heaven.

 

I think there is plenty of public information that can take use to a level where our odds are drastically increased but in the end there still is no guarantee.

 

All we can do is the best we can with what we have.

 

Stand tall MPG we are here and with those out there this are the few who are not follow the religous path to reach god, enlightment.

There are not many who wants really enlightment or archievment like being a saint.

Most want some power, health and stress release, some nice philosophy, nice stories a community, a place to belong to, some help for daily problems and some comfort.

 

Healing others, becoming oneself a genuine,becoming enlightment, reunion with God, becoming oneself, waking up, stop reincarnation are lofty ideas. And want to learn from a Genuine School. We do not know when it happens since there are not so many calls from the heart they are loud in the spiritual realms and heard by the teachers who seek students.

For the standard human who get invited - they seem to have VIP status from whatever reason.

 

You know you picked the pill NEO. Life would be so easy if one not know about the spiritual path. One just blame everthing has a material common sense and has not this bad thought of "Oh I have not meditate" "Oh I have not done my sacrifice" "My Practise do not allow to drink alcohol" "No my wife, I have to exercise celibacy for 100 days" "Oh this course cost so much how do I get the money" "Oh my legs are stiff I can not sit in Full Lotus" it CAN create so much distress right, a normal person would ask if you are crazy and if you are get cheated? Then you are full occupy to ask again if this is true, to what extend. It maybe a true for the intial and the rest is are just lies.

 

If one not find peace how one can be ready? One has to be alway ready.Now is the time.

When you are ready. What if is next life

[Owledge]

Like having a bird pigeon with a message on has to let it go so it can fly.

Or an owl. You don't need a paper message then. It just looks into your eyes and the message is conveyed. Haha.