Immortality Poll

[Cameron]

From The Taoist Classics, The Collected Translations Of Thomas Cleary vol 3 that Lozen sent me for my birthday. This is one of the first passages I read on opening it up.

 

"The state where "heaven is open, earth is broad, and all things are just as they are" is described in graphic detail by the nineteenth-century Completely Real Taoist master Liu I-ming. in his Awakening to the Tao, wherein he speaks of emulating heaven and earth: "If people can be open minded and magnanimous, be receptive to all, take pity on the old and the poor, assist those in peril and rescue those in trouble, give of themsevles without seeking reward, never bear grudges, look upon others and self impartially, and realize all as one, then people can be companions of heaven. If people can be flexible and yielding, humble, with self-control, free of agitation, clear of volatility, not angered by criticism, ignoring insult, docilely accepting all hardships, illnesses, and natural disasters, without anxiety or resentment when faced with danger or adversity, then people can be companions of earth. With the nobilty of heaven and the humilty of earth, one joins in with the attributes of heaven and earth and extends to eternity with them."

[GrandTrinity]

Wow, thanks for that quote Cam. I have a I-Minger book and although I didnt read it, if one looks at the concordance of it on Amazon.com one knows I-Ming is a real dude. So, is I-Ming still kickin? He is alive? Is he immortal with a pure chi body???

 

You know what? I asked my friend this question recently. Both his parents are mystics. He told me: Well, the Earth and the Sun, like, even they will die one day, even the sun breaks down.

 

THis is cool to think about, but still - the answer to this question does not appear black and white. On the other hand, a Taoist immortal does see this as black and white.

Edited November 5, 2006 by GrandTrinity

[Cameron]

Not sure if he is alive or not or has a 'pure qi body'. Why don't you research if your interested?

[GrandTrinity]

I couldnt find anyting, but perhap Sean would know??

[Stigweard]

Bump

[rookie]

Wow

What a huge huge ego one must have to hope for this, believe in this, make it a goal.

 

I would suggest examining your motives.

 

And who or what are you anyway?

[Stigweard]

Wow

What a huge huge ego one must have to hope for this, believe in this, make it a goal.

 

I would suggest examining your motives.

 

And who or what are you anyway?

 

Spiritual immortality, the path becoming a Shien, is well within the realms of mainstream Taoist teaching.

[NeutralWire]

Spiritual immortality, the path becoming a Shien, is well within the realms of mainstream Taoist teaching.

 

... and Hermetic/Western too, by a completely different method.

 

 

"Well, this is the easiest thing in the world to tell you about. You shall then have the full story of the difficult passage from mortal to so-called immortal. Indeed, you are right that the process is one of great pain, and complete vulnerability. Today it is far easier than it was in my time, as there are modern solutions used to feed the person intravenously while they pass through the worst of these changes. In addition, it is now possible to give them sedatives, so they remain unconscious, and do not feel the extreme pains of the process. The time taken is quite accurate, as I am told from three to six months is usually required to complete the transformation. During this time the person going through the change is completely open and vulnerable to any misadventure that may come to them."

 

 

... from "Immortality" by Mickaharic. Not a practice book I hasten to add, merely a collection of stories and rumours he has picked up in 45 years of sorcery in New York city, concerning methods of Immortality. Bardon's "Initiation" is the only published route into this work. The so-called Philosopher's Stone was perfectly real as far as Bardon was concerned -- according to his student Doctor M.K., the recipe for making it was kept under lock and key in his study.

 

~NeutralWire~

[Taiji Bum]

Wow

What a huge huge ego one must have to hope for this, believe in this, make it a goal.

 

I would suggest examining your motives.

 

And who or what are you anyway?

I KNOW!!!! I used to get told all the time that there was more to life than God and that I was an idiot to attempt something as unbelievable as Union or ascension. My motives aren't purely altruistic, thats for dang sure. Who am I? My name is Hamel.... Darin Hamel. I was raised Catholic where we call the immortal energy body the glorified body, but since then I have studied all sorts of other systems that teach ascension practices most recently the Freemasonic system which is heavily kabbalistic.

 

I suggest YOU not settle for small dreams and things easily accomplished. Shoot for the stars and even if you miss you'll probably still hit the moon!

 

(and lighten up dude.... )

[mYTHmAKER]

I KNOW!!!! I used to get told all the time that there was more to life than God and that I was an idiot to attempt something as unbelievable as Union or ascension. My motives aren't purely altruistic, thats for dang sure. Who am I? My name is Hamel.... Darin Hamel. I was raised Catholic where we call the immortal energy body the glorified body, but since then I have studied all sorts of other systems that teach ascension practices most recently the Freemasonic system which is heavily kabbalistic.

 

I suggest YOU not settle for small dreams and things easily accomplished. Shoot for the stars and even if you miss you'll probably still hit the moon!

 

(and lighten up dude.... )

 

Go Darin

[exorcist_1699]

Only few very good and clever guys/ladies can attain it . If you are not good enough, then lot of incidents such as loss of your job, a fire happen in your house , your wife leaves, war ...will interfere. If you are not very clever , then lot of different theories will perplex you : all living things were born and die, why exceptional...etc., making you distracting from the correct path . And, every step /level of your practice can have different trap that entangle you from further proceeding ....

 

Even your sifu ( if he is a guy who really knows) can sometime be a blockade; in case you are not the "suitable " guy, you are not good enough , then he just tells something ordinary , making you think that the key is there , that is the highest level... in fact, it is not .

Edited February 1, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[rookie]

I KNOW!!!! I used to get told all the time that there was more to life than God and that I was an idiot to attempt something as unbelievable as Union or ascension. My motives aren't purely altruistic, thats for dang sure. Who am I? My name is Hamel.... Darin Hamel. I was raised Catholic where we call the immortal energy body the glorified body, but since then I have studied all sorts of other systems that teach ascension practices most recently the Freemasonic system which is heavily kabbalistic.

 

I suggest YOU not settle for small dreams and things easily accomplished. Shoot for the stars and even if you miss you'll probably still hit the moon!

 

(and lighten up dude.... )

 

Well let me ask you plainly, this "you" that is called Darin Hammel. Are you hoping to take it into eternity?

 

 

 

And how can you call my dreams small? Do you have any idea what my dreams are?

 

Is this a light hearted subject?

 

hmmmm

[rookie]

What ascends?

 

Is it your ego, personality, and physical body?

 

Are there a bunch of ascended personalities "out there"?

What does ascencion really mean to you?

[Gerard]

I'm horses to both. All traditions have saints and super saints who have lived extreme lives both physically and spiritually. Few more then the Indian traditions which are extremely old and have produced extreme adherents to extreme practices.

 

If physical immortality is possible we should see some of them walking around. A couple of schools and yes that one village deep in the himalayans where happy go lucky white haired folks frolic all day. The evidence exists only in legend. Every religion has a legend of an immortal or near immortal, its human nature. Living past 120 simply isn't human nature, its not in our genes...

 

Well said. In fact Gautama Buddha died when he was 80 years old. What would be the purpose of living when one has achieved the highest level of spiritual enlightenment?

 

Answer: no to both.

Edited February 1, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Taiji Bum]

Well let me ask you plainly, this "you" that is called Darin Hammel. Are you hoping to take it into eternity?

And how can you call my dreams small? Do you have any idea what my dreams are?

 

Is this a light hearted subject?

 

hmmmm

Well let me ask you plainly, this "you" that is called Darin Hammel. Eh.... the guy I see when I look into the mirror. If you want some sort of profound existential essay I am not the brightest bulb in the pack. I want to achieve the highest thing a person can achieve and I believe that to be ascension. I want to be me forever with the option of evolving along the way. I imagine ascension is just the beginning sort of thing. I dont want to die. I want to live forever and ride starships and take notes when new civilizations form and die. I want it all. I know most people dont get why I want so much and thats ok to me. Is it ok for you?

 

And how can you call my dreams small? Do you have any idea what my dreams are? Your right, I dont know what your dreams are. I apologize. So.... what are your dreams.

[rookie]

Well let me ask you plainly, this "you" that is called Darin Hammel. Eh.... the guy I see when I look into the mirror. If you want some sort of profound existential essay I am not the brightest bulb in the pack. I want to achieve the highest thing a person can achieve and I believe that to be ascension. I want to be me forever with the option of evolving along the way. I imagine ascension is just the beginning sort of thing. I dont want to die. I want to live forever and ride starships and take notes when new civilizations form and die. I want it all. I know most people dont get why I want so much and thats ok to me. Is it ok for you?

 

It is not for me to say. I understand a bit more now. I was just really shocked by someone taking that so seriously. I see how that ties in with your statements about power as well. It's all good I guess every path needs somebody exploring it. That one is not a natural attraction for me.

 

I will explain myself more a bit later. Right now I'm hoping the Cardinals take the lead just before halftime

 

But I will thank you for getting me think about this a bit more.

[Ryan T.]

My experiences have led me to believe that anything we can think of: can happen, is happening or has happened!

[rookie]

And how can you call my dreams small? Do you have any idea what my dreams are? Your right, I dont know what your dreams are. I apologize. So.... what are your dreams.

 

I am wired a bit differently than you. For me it is more of a path of discovery. I am drawn towards something immense. No matter what distractions I engage in, it keeps coming back. I touch it, enter into it, but any thought of the personal self, and pop, it is gone. When I let my ego get too involved in anything I suffer. I can see it start to happen so I try to to relax it. For me, the ego is a problem. It keeps me off the trail.

There was a time when I was a bit confused when I would read about people saying "seek the truth" "love the truth" and all that. But now I understand experientially. What I am after is the truth, the truth of being. Not philosophical truth, or anything theorized at all. Only experiential truth will do.

 

So I don't have big personal dreams. Personally, I try to do the right thing and live a contemplative lifestyle in the midst of a normal western daily life. The things I aspire to are, to see clearly, to let go and relax more, to be bright.

 

I know there are a lot of taoist concepts and writings to support what I am describing, but I not a scholar of this type either.

 

I do not lack power. Last week I signed off on an IC design that will cost more than $180,000 to get manufactured. As the lead designer and technical lead I am responsible for the part working as planned. My employer and our customer infuse me with a lot of power. I exercise it to the best of my ability.

 

That's about all for now.

 

In another post you said you were glad to have waited until the age of 40 to have money or power. How did your relationship to these things change after 40?

[Taiji Bum]

In another post you said you were glad to have waited until the age of 40 to have money or power. How did your relationship to these things change after 40?

Before 40 I was solely seeking ascension. I was meditating 6+ hours a day, not dating, eating mostly vegan, practicing and teaching tai chi, and other things with that one single focus on ascension. These days I still seek ascension but I feel that before I needed to focus on it to the exclusion of all else and now I need to seek to have balance.

[rookie]

Before 40 I was solely seeking ascension. I was meditating 6+ hours a day, not dating, eating mostly vegan, practicing and teaching tai chi, and other things with that one single focus on ascension. These days I still seek ascension but I feel that before I needed to focus on it to the exclusion of all else and now I need to seek to have balance.

I see what you mean now. I have never been in a position to do that, and really don't know if I could. I raised a family, worked full time, yadda yadda, and put in what time I could. I have more time now that my kids are grown.

 

What does ascension mean to you specifically?

Did you believe in the bodily resurection when you were a christian? Not Christ's resurection, but of those who are "saved"? I could never really buy into that.

[doc benway]

Lately I'm of the opinion that we are collectively immortal but not individually so.

 

As far as the second question goes, I feel that we are already pure energy - equipped with apparatus that enables us to experience it as what we refer to as "physical", whatever that means - it's just a matter of perspective...

 

Intersting thread Darin.

[Taiji Bum]

I see what you mean now. I have never been in a position to do that, and really don't know if I could. I raised a family, worked full time, yadda yadda, and put in what time I could. I have more time now that my kids are grown.

 

What does ascension mean to you specifically?

Did you believe in the bodily resurection when you were a christian? Not Christ's resurection, but of those who are "saved"? I could never really buy into that.

I believe the tv show Stargate has a good understanding of it.

Ascension is a process by which sufficiently-evolved sentient beings may shed their physical bodies and live eternally as pure energy on a higher plane of existence full of knowledge and power. It is a mental, spiritual or evolutionary enlightenment that can arise as the direct result of achieving a certain level of wisdom and self-knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_(Stargate)#Ascension

[rookie]

I believe the tv show Stargate has a good understanding of it.

Ascension is a process by which sufficiently-evolved sentient beings may shed their physical bodies and live eternally as pure energy on a higher plane of existence full of knowledge and power. It is a mental, spiritual or evolutionary enlightenment that can arise as the direct result of achieving a certain level of wisdom and self-knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_(Stargate)#Ascension

OK, so without the body. That would be a more common way of thinking about it.

The natural way would seem to just be the evolution of conciousness.

[Taiji Bum]

OK, so without the body. That would be a more common way of thinking about it.

The natural way would seem to just be the evolution of conciousness.

In Taoist alchemy the most common immortal is the Yoda (Jesus?) kind where you die and your body vanishes. The highest immortals vanish/ascend in full waking consciousness like Elijah.

[hyok]

I like the Taoist idea of physical ascension. I mean, think about it, what if we ascend Buddhist Style and when we get up there it's like, "hey, this place is cool but where's the porn?". As Taoist immortals we can return and check out our fave stars.