Did Jesus Really Die on the Cross?

[Immortal4life]

Most historians believe Jesus Christ was an actual man who really existed, and we know the things he did and taught have stood the test of time.

The commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself, is so perfect of a law, it is practically impossible to improve upon.

The most famous thing he did was come back from death and conquer death. In history prophets have used the energy of the universe to perform many incredible feats including bringing people back to life. In modern times cardiologists sometimes bring people who had heart attacks back to life by shocking them with electricity, but this uses machines and has to be very soon after the person died. It may be hard to accept for some people that a master could bring someone back to life with life energy.

So there is a theory that in fact Jesus did not die on the cross. Remember that he was taken down much earlier than a person was normally supposed to be on the cross, and they decided to not break his legs like they usually do when they take someone down. Then, when he was put in his tomb, the herbs his people brought with them were not funerary herbs, but medicinal ones. We know the order Jesus originally came from, the Essenes, were experts in the use of the medicinal properties of plants.

Here is the 1 hour BBC Documentary "Did Jesus Die on the Cross?"-

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8617432570680905331#

Here is a shorter, half hour version with some scenes cut-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378154953060#

Youtube version-

or-

Edited January 18, 2013 by Immortal4life

[RiverSnake]

[Vmarco]

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

I was a historian and archaeologist.

 

I see little or no real evidence for Jesus existing. Primary sources are pretty much non existence. And we cannot trust any secondary sources. Objectively, they are completely unreliable.

 

But thats not the point. Jesus as a concept, the 'Christ' energy, is perfectly relevant, if you choose to believe in it/him.

 

I don't need to believe in the historical accuracy/existence of Lao Tzu to believe in the relevance of The Way.

 

But I am extremely doubtful that Jesus ever existed.

[Mokona]

I was a historian and archaeologist.

 

I see little or no real evidence for Jesus existing. Primary sources are pretty much non existence. And we cannot trust any secondary sources. Objectively, they are completely unreliable.

 

But thats not the point. Jesus as a concept, the 'Christ' energy, is perfectly relevant, if you choose to believe in it/him.

 

I don't need to believe in the historical accuracy/existence of Lao Tzu to believe in the relevance of The Way.

 

But I am extremely doubtful that Jesus ever existed.

 

"But thats not the point. Jesus as a concept, the 'Christ' energy, is perfectly relevant, if you choose to believe in it/him."

 

Like how Calvin believes his toy tiger is real? I don't get it.

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

"But thats not the point. Jesus as a concept, the 'Christ' energy, is perfectly relevant, if you choose to believe in it/him."

 

Like how Calvin believes his toy tiger is real? I don't get it.

 

 

You really don't ?

 

Lao Tzu probably didn't exist. Maybe he is a compilation of characters. Maybe not. Does it make the Tao Te Ching any less relevant to my life, or your life ?

 

Jesus probably didn't exist. Does it make his message any less relevant ?

 

Sects of the early Gnostic Christians probably didn't believe in the physical existence of Jesus. They believed in him as the embodiment of perfection, or the perfect man. They didn't need him to exist for his message to be worth following.

 

Ultimately, energy moves when we believe it will, and intention and Intent, two different things, make all the difference. A belief in Christ and the Christ message, if held with sincerity, is as good as anything else.

 

I'm not Christian, but the message still makes sense.

[Vmarco]

[templetao]

Jesus a taoist immortal? Hmmm......Seems to easy.

 

Regular cultivation relies on bypassinng karma to ascend. Even in the mo pai this is not done until level 30. So if heaven is achieved by fusing yin and yang chi how do you expect to get into the gates of heaven with just that alone?

 

Jesus was all about forgiveness that thru the Grace of the almighty that you can be forgiven your sin and have your negative Karma by passed thus ascend. Jesus introduced the cycle of Grace.

 

You know there are spiritual gifts that you can get on your own and there are spiritual gifts that you can receive from God himself.

 

Just as the profits of old would go into the wilderness and enter the cycle of grace and seek out the fire from heaven(Pentecost) and commune with the Almighty.

 

The path of the taoist immortal is not for everyone...

Jesus

Lao tzu

and Buddha all had their purposes.

 

If there are wood people and earth people that all correspond to organs I wonder if there was somebody who was born that represented the dantian of mankind. Someone who carried the original signal of the creator that when touched sent this signal thru out the whole body of mankind?

 

Just my opinion dont read to much into it.

Edited March 19, 2012 by templetao

[Owledge]

[Aetherous]

We are over 2,000 years after the fact. Scholars attempt to build an entire puzzle with most of the pieces missing...they shouldn't be claiming that those pieces were never meant to be there!

 

 

So it comes down to belief once again. Those who supposedly rely on fact alone are believing that this man never existed, since they only find stories of him. Those who aren't as supposedly educated, tend to believe that he existed.

 

Where is the honesty in the middle of this?

 

Honesty and scholarly integrity would say, "There aren't records of JC outside of what records we have." That is all.

 

Also, I have a question for the scholars. Are there any reputable historical sources of the deaths of the apostles? As for those who were said to have been martyred, I can't imagine people being willing to die for what they knew was a lie...

[fallintounity]

If I'm not mistaken, in those days, everyone was nailed to the cross.. So this is likely.

Edited March 20, 2012 by fallintounity

[Tux]

I thought Jesus was a mushroom?

[Protector]

This thread as high at the funny scale as Jesse Tsao thread...

[Immortal4life]

Here Bart Ehrman talks about why the scholarly consensus is indeed that Jesus was an historical person

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqJyk-dtLs

[Immortal4life]

I thought Jesus was a mushroom?

 

It's a cool theory.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PedXjBSXd2Y

[3bob]

Matthew 6:22-23 (King James Version)

 

22.The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

23.But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee

be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

Jesus (a golden white soul/spirit) exists right now - open your eye and heart and see - not to cleverly debate various texts (which do have their place) or to prove or disprove to another but to have first hand proof of your own.

 

Om

[Kanvus]

I've been thinking about the same paradox these days. Wanted to share several misc. tid bits. Sorry if it is long, but I think those that are meant to find it will like it enough and it will feel like a condensed booklet.

 

 

Certain logos and shields have the word "IHS" (pronounced yes), which refers to the sun (or son, or el sol/soul for latin). When we nod to say yes, we look up and down, as if to watch the sun rise and fall.

 

In latin, el is used for male words. Similar, (e)love and (e)light are the advertised traits of the (e)lord. In Hebrew belief, the sun is Elohim (el and him being male). Also, "he" is prefix for Helios, the mythological sun god. Words like "hot" are strikingly similar to heart, and heart being similar to hearth, a word now shortened to earth. So we know that light is the male ion, or yang; and matter being the opposite (cold and contracting) yin. Matter altered to its original form 'mater' has a similarity to 'mother', referring to the yin force. Some of these seem irrelevant but they are solar system related and have cosmological hints embedded. Positive words referring to the sun's his-star-y: good, help, yes, plea or please (related to pleiadian sisters, coming later), soon, ease, and many more are ancient sounds refitted to continue the memory of our origin. Memory being a variation on the muse named Mneme.

 

More about Jesus. Let's do walking on water. When we look at the "horizon", we see the egyptian sun god Horus "rising" (or Ra-sing) from the underworld, or from underwater, hovering over the sea. Horus is enemies with Set, who is the egyptian god of darkness (when the sun sets). Horus, Osiris, and Set are believed to be one person, at different times of the day. Isis, sister and wife of Osiris and seen by some as "Mary", resurrected him after Set killed Osiris. This resurrection is common to Jesus, and the phoenix rising after 3 days of darkness. Interestingly, Horus, the one actually rising is a falcon. And of course, Horus is strikingly familiar to "hours", as we use the sun to count hours. And the moon, which circles a smaller orbit, for minutes. Right before the sun enters winter, when days are darker and colder for longer hours, it is wedged between Sagittarius, and Scorpio, both seeming to jab the sun with their pointed weapons and venom. This is called by ancient people as "The Last Supper" because the winter is about to come full force, and they must gather what food they have and wait for the sun to Spring back. The sun rules and is most bright in the Summer or soma, a word referring to when an emotional or non-physical force manifests into the physical world into full density (the BODY part in the trinity body/mind/spirit--more detail in a bit). This is why we see the sun as yellow/orange/green tints, it is within our perceptual octave or dimensional range that we're made of (think of traffic light, cones, and sign colors). Yellow is the chakra in our stomach, and stands for silent strength. The Buddha(body) has a large stomach and is radiant (Ray-dia-nt or Ra and dia, both sun concepts) with happiness and light. Stomach, or stem-ach, is the stem of the tree of life, the bodhi tree (will revisit this soon).

 

A few more Jesus things. Crucifix may mean the crossing, or crossing of a fixed point in the sky. The only fixed thing we've always counted on are the constellations at night, not counting gradual Earth tilting. When the sun crosses a certain vertical midpoint in the sky, it marks a certain time/season in the year. When autumn nears, or "Fall" (the fall adam/atom and the son), it is time to harvest the wine we prepare since the beginning of Spring--this is when Jesus is said to turn water into wine. As for other miracles, we know indeed that sunlight heals all dis-eases (Dis being the name of Hades, and ease being a variation of "yes"; Hades being similar to hate, the opposite of (e)love and (e)light and Yesus the (e)Lord). Egyptians used terms like underworld and dark to refer to "oppositeness" and not just evil, sometimes referring to the female counterpart of the subject. You may also notice many of the god's names sound like Sirius, the dog star (guarded by Cerberus). Sirius is seen as our sun's female twin, if you can accept the notion that we, like most stars, are part of a binary star system, orbiting each other in an orbit believed to be the shape of the infinity symbol. This is why Isis is the wife AND sister of Osiris (like Mary being Jesus' equal, having her own 12 apostles; and Mary appearing in the word to marry). Also, one variation of her name has a silent "t", t being a way to note that something is feminine in egypt (like how dis starts with a "t" sound and refers to opposite off, i.e. disown or discourage). In new age information, there is a notion that our "higher selves" or deceased souls come from and return to Sirius, the blue star. Shouldn't be hard to guess which tribe on earth specializes in the "dog" star--the Dogon tribe. Pretty clever. Some say the Bible (babel or bi-pole) is a "canonical" text, canon being a variation on the word canine or dog.

 

As a cosmological sidenote, the pleiadians sisters were said to have sent an armed force to defend earth from invaders. If you play games you might have played a character who is a Paladin, who defends and has a high level of honor and morality. In stories of a similar era, Sirens were said to lead men astray. They were put on a 3 rocked island, metaphoric to the 3 headed dog Cerberus, or dog star located in Canis Major right by Orion. At this time, Sirens or Sirians were sent to earth as a colony to help out but ended up losing sight of their mission and lost control to their urge to have power and pleasures. Some art depicts them as mermaids but more classic ones show them with bird wings like harpies. Out of this came Zoroastrian and Sumerian art, story of nephilim (birth of the word nepharious) giants, and the story of fallen angels.

 

Buddha represents the stomach, the yellow part of the vehicle that manifests the actual physical human body, as in the "bodhi tree", or the tree of life. Like said earlier, stem-ach (stomach) is the stem which grows the spine upward like a tree with many fruits and increasing number of leaves, eventually blossoming into the thousand petal lotus representing complete growth and enlightenment. The lotus lives upon the water with its body under, the way our crown chakra is the root chakra of our higher soul, beginning a new octave of light-energy-vibration-sound-color. Someone mentioned that Jesus was a mushroom, similarly, there is a buddha named Amitābha well known by many cultures so his name is pronounced differently all over. Interestingly his name sounds like the Amanita mushroom, a popular psychoactive kind. Amanita fungus; in west Asia his name is pronounced like "ah-yi-da phuc" and to our side of the globe, "Amida".

 

Christ could be a variant of Krishna or a variant on the word cross, referring to the heart chakra, and you can infer the rest. In church, people move their fingers from head to chest (Cancer) and then touch the arms (Gemini) to unify the airy or spiritual elements of the body, which relates to the star signs. In popular stories such as Hercules, the hero rides a chariot or in his case, Pegasus, back into battle to defeat the dark. Coincidentally, Pegasus is right next to Pisces, the star symbol representing Jesus' beginning of the 2000 yearlong Pisces age.

 

Let's get a few more in. Adam and eve; odd and even; when night comes, it is called the evening. The + sign is a cross when the sun is at its highest peak, and - is a picture of the horizon without the sun at night. Many words that start with "N" (not, niet, nunca, none, never, nay, etc) mean zero; n-ight or not light; Day, dia, deity. Greek alphabet starts with alpha and ends with O-mega, O being a circle that completes cycles of life and orbits. Our letter "P" was originally "pi". The letter "O" in several ancient languages meant ayin or eye and drawn as an eye in hieroglyphics.

 

And to wrap it up with a Jesus tid bit, Krishna was known as a herdsman and Christ was a shepherd. They were both born without sexual union. The holy trinity is called Trimurti in hinduism. They both deliver their followers from sin. Jesus in the Last Supper painting wore a blue and red robe, matching the colors of yin and yang in some taoist beliefs, such as feng shui. He is surrounded by the 12 people, each 3 representing a season, and each person representing a month, a planet, and a zodiac. Ultimately I think there's a good chance most of these Christs existed in humanoid form throughout the past, and I love them the same either as archetypes, concepts, or people (which are made of carbon, having 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 elections).

 

 

tl;dr: Jesus = sun. Biblical stories = a lot about astronomy. Why people ignore metaphor = flouride. Green movement = use one bottle = refill with poorly filtered tap water. Life feels like a mmorpg.

[Owledge]

@Kanvus

I guess you have seen "Zeitgeist".

[Birch]

That was pretty awesome. However I'm no linguist nor symbology expert.

The alien thing keeps returning to these discussions. Why?

[Kanvus]

I enjoyed Zeitgeist when it came out.

 

There are many stories of people who come from the sky to interact with humans, to create a half-breed. Greeks have Hercules, while Sumer and Egypt have Ea, Thoth or Moses. They were said to live among pharaohs but also with the common slaves.

 

It could mean that the sky and earth came together to create life, or actual accounts of people who really were giant and had wings. So it all comes down to a choice in our heads: was Zeus an idea or the spirit of Jupiter, or was he a high-ranking commander that helped blow up planet Tiamat during a war like certain people say, or is he another character like Jehova who people simply think of as Father or Allah? I tend to lean towards seeing things as metaphors but some things are too strange to ignore: the asteroid belt looks like enough rock to be the remains of Tiamat; many records reveal that the moon didn't exist until a few thousand years ago; Sumerian art shows regular people but some with extremely large eyes and pointy head. And almost all cultures mention waiting and watching the ocean for certain people to return. A lot of ancient people use the word ocean to mean space. And lastly, the Inca and Dogon and Hopi and Aztecs all have an uncanny ability to measure stars and insist that it is what they were "told" by the "helpers". That's all I can say to answer why discussions keep turning back to the subject of aliens.

 

Like a politician, we alone have a hard time being certain about anything. But as the tao stories go, there are hidden treasures scattered in the world. It is an inspiring scavenger hunt.

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]

[Birch]

Interesting,...for a thread titled: Did Jesus Really Die on the Cross?...there's little discussion on Did Jesus Really Die on the Cross?

 

Does it matter if Mel Gibson's "Passion" is total nonsense? Yes!

 

Lao Tzu said, "...the world's religions serve only to strengthen attachments to false concepts such as self and other, life and death, heaven and earth, and so on. Those who become entangled in these false ideas are prevented from perceiving the Integral Oneness." Hua Hu Ching 16

 

Wait...you're quoting your own post?

Why?

[Aetherous]

Does it matter if Mel Gibson's "Passion" is total nonsense? Yes!

 

Why does this matter to you?

[Birch]

It's a movie. Even documentaries are movies. I.e. A given director/producer choice of what to show and how.

Books are like that too IMO, except they ask more of the reader than a movie asks of the viewer IMO.

What' the thread about? Jesus and dying on the cross?

If i read it as a cultivator I see the death of my "false self" on the axis of my "heart". A felt experience. Kind of a regular thing.