Added Zazen to my Qigong

[chi 2012]

The last 4 days I've been sitting Zazen for for 20 minutes a day - in addition to my daily 1 to 2 hours of Spring Forest Qigong. I like the Zazen. My mind is very quiet when I do it. But I also like my qigong exercises and meditations. When I sit Small Universe my mind is nosier - but I feel the health benefits - like my stomach making noises - because I probably have blockages in there.

 

So now I am confused. I thought I would do Spring Forest Qigong for the rest of my life and take it to a higher level. Now I'm wondering if the Qigong is just a stepping stone to becoming a Zen Buddhist.

 

Does anybody else mix Zazen and Qigong?

[mewtwo]

short answer yes i do.

 

longer answer no i do not because spiritual stuff is spiritual stuff labels just define it dont label and you will be better off zazen or qigong both can work with internal energies both are meditation.

[Trunk]

This topic comes up now & then in the e-community...

Bottom-line fun quote:

"to improve your qigong, do zazen.

to improve your zazen, do qigong."

 

They are complementary.

[Cameron]

From the very beginning of my training.

 

It was training at weekend at Zen Mountain Monastery in upstate NY that I found out about Qigong. My first qigong teacher was Ken Cohen. He always taught that Sitting and Forgetting is the first practice.

 

Even in the practice I do now, if you get Sifu Jenny's DVD she begins with quiet sitting, then moves on to Yigong.

 

I studied with several amazing teachers that teach it in their own way. But the basic principle is the same, balance energy work stuff with sitting and doing nothing stuff

[chi 2012]

From the very beginning of my training.

 

It was training at weekend at Zen Mountain Monastery in upstate NY that I found out about Qigong. My first qigong teacher was Ken Cohen. He always taught that Sitting and Forgetting is the first practice.

 

Even in the practice I do now, if you get Sifu Jenny's DVD she begins with quiet sitting, then moves on to Yigong.

 

I studied with several amazing teachers that teach it in their own way. But the basic principle is the same, balance energy work stuff with sitting and doing nothing stuff

Do you go straight from sitting into Yigong? I actually read all of Jenny's site yesterday because I was trying to figure out what Kunlun was and I ended up on her site. I don't think I want to switch Qigong practices though. Chunyi Lin says to wait a half hour between different practices. I wonder if Zazen is an exception though - because it isn't really an energy practice. It would be cool to do everything all back to back.

[Cameron]

Yeah, I begin and finish with a few minutes of quiet sitting.

 

If you have a practice you enjoy already stick with it!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

To my understanding, "sitting and forgetting" after qi gong is itself a kind of qi gong since, in my experience, the movement allowed through the qi gong exercise is allowed to continue unimpeded when sitting in this way, which continues to open the channels and nourish the body with qi. It is a great way to do vipissana in my opinion since you can become aware of much goings on, and also the way that attention can become intention when energy moves according to our attention.

 

So I would recommend sitting with posture and just allow everything to do what it does and just allow, observe, and maybe "drink deeply" of some of it to help absorb. If I'm not mistaken, this is also a way to abosorb qi and jing into bone marrow, according to some writing.

 

This focus helps to let go of thought processes when becoming absorbed in the observation et all, so the bridge from there to Zazen is, well, right there.. or rather "right here ."

[RyanO]

..."sitting and forgetting"...

 

Yep. This is the Taoist equivalent of zazen which is called zuowang. Very similar but a little different depending on the religious/metaphysical context.

 

Here is discussion on the old HT forum about it (there is also a thread in the Taoist section):

 

http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/10807%5C

 

Livia Kohn has a book about it as well.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Yep. This is the Taoist equivalent of zazen which is called zuowang. Very similar but a little different depending on the religious/metaphysical context.

 

 

I've never read Bruce Frantzis' writing about "dissolving method" but it's name suggests to me that it might be somehow related.. not sure..

[chi 2012]

Man, Qigong and Zazen are so freaking different. Today when I sat small universe for 30 minutes my mind would not shut up - and I was angry the whole time - and having arguements with people in my head. My 20 minutes of zazen - my mind was just super quiet. This is an interesting experiment.

[RyanO]

Man, Qigong and Zazen are so freaking different. Today when I sat small universe for 30 minutes my mind would not shut up - and I was angry the whole time - and having arguements with people in my head. My 20 minutes of zazen - my mind was just super quiet. This is an interesting experiment.

 

Yeah, I prefer to move energy while standing and to let go while sitting.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Man, Qigong and Zazen are so freaking different. Today when I sat small universe for 30 minutes my mind would not shut up - and I was angry the whole time - and having arguements with people in my head. My 20 minutes of zazen - my mind was just super quiet. This is an interesting experiment.

 

to paraphrase The Buddha's teaching on vipissana, "when you are walking, know that you are walking. When you are smelling earth, know that you are smelling earth. When you feel the arising of an emotion, know that you are feeling this emotion arising. When the emotion is going away, know that it is going away. When you no longer feel the emotion, know that it has gone away."

 

It's observation basically. Watch them arising, watch them leaving, know when they're gone. Same for everything "when you are inhaling a big breath, know that you are inhaling a big breath. When you are exhaling, know that you are exhaling."

 

Ime, it's far more difficult to change something without full observation.

[Fu_dog]

I can't add much to what's already been posted by Trunk, Cameron and others.

 

But I will say it's my experience that zazen becomes quieter because of qigong. Qigong is made richer by zazen.

 

They are excellent compliments.

[jeffrito]

The last 4 days I've been sitting Zazen for for 20 minutes a day - in addition to my daily 1 to 2 hours of Spring Forest Qigong. I like the Zazen. My mind is very quiet when I do it. But I also like my qigong exercises and meditations. When I sit Small Universe my mind is nosier - but I feel the health benefits - like my stomach making noises - because I probably have blockages in there.

 

So now I am confused. I thought I would do Spring Forest Qigong for the rest of my life and take it to a higher level. Now I'm wondering if the Qigong is just a stepping stone to becoming a Zen Buddhist.

 

Does anybody else mix Zazen and Qigong?

 

I'm almost in the opposite position to you. I came to Qigong through Zen Buddhism.

 

My typical routine is 40 mins of Qigong in the morning and then 20 - 30 mins of Zazen.

 

Whilst I've come to find the Qigong very helpful, I still regard the Zazen as the core practice.

 

My take on Zen is that whilst there is a lot of wisdom to be found in it's teachings, it can be a little narrow.

 

In the many books I've read on Zen, few if any mention the internal martial arts beyond Zazen. The answer to everything seems to be "sit on the cushion".

 

In one way this is very useful as I'm guessing it remains quite close to the Chan buddhism brought to Japan in the 700s.

 

However since learning more about the Dao, I feel these ideas are much closer to my beliefs, and it's the huge but often ignored influence it's had on Zen Buddhism.

[ChiDragon]

I'm almost in the opposite position to you. I came to Qigong through Zen Buddhism.

 

My typical routine is 40 mins of Qigong in the morning and then 20 - 30 mins of Zazen.

 

Whilst I've come to find the Qigong very helpful, I still regard the Zazen as the core practice.

 

My take on Zen is that whilst there is a lot of wisdom to be found in it's teachings, it can be a little narrow.

 

In the many books I've read on Zen, few if any mention the internal martial arts beyond Zazen. The answer to everything seems to be "sit on the cushion".

 

In one way this is very useful as I'm guessing it remains quite close to the Chan buddhism brought to Japan in the 700s.

 

However since learning more about the Dao, I feel these ideas are much closer to my beliefs, and it's the huge but often ignored influence it's had on Zen Buddhism.

 

What is your understanding the difference between Qigong and Zazen...???

What is your understanding the difference between Zen(Chan) and Zazen...???

[jeffrito]

What is your understanding the difference between Qigong and Zazen...???

What is your understanding the difference between Zen(Chan) and Zazen...???

 

1) Zazen is seated, static meditation whereas Qigong is often standing with some movement.

 

2) Zazen is an important element of a greater whole i.e. Zen

[skydog]

bump...I am experimenting with this and zazen is just 20 minutes of enlightenment interesting to see other people find it complimentary to qigong.

[ChiDragon]

 

1) Zazen is seated, static meditation whereas Qigong is often standing with some movement.

 

2) Zazen is an important element of a greater whole i.e. Zen

 

FYI....

Qigong is the ultimate method of breathing.

Zazen is Static Qigong. One sit and breathe deeply.

Dynamic Qigong: One is often standing with some movements and breathe deeply.

 

If one doesn't breathe, then one is not performing Qigong at all.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2013 by ChiDragon

[thetaoiseasy]

^ I restrained myself from responding to your posts quite a few times. But this time I can't resist, as you have posted the same thing various times, on various threads.

 

Qigong is not the ultimate method of breathing. Breathing is just one of many ways--in fact, the most preliminary way--to work with qi. You have taken the chinese word "qi" way too literally. The term "qigong" is a modern one and was not even used in the past. Qi is energy, not breath.

 

If you don't change the way you think on this point, you can spend another 50 years and still not understand Qi -- even at the most basic level. I think that truly would be a shame for someone who has invested this much time on this board and the eastern arts.

 

I hope I'm not being rude. But I will only tell you this once.

Edited January 26, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I think its fair though; air, water, and food are all presented as strong sources of Qi... in that order too I think... that the breath is a top-tier means of cultivating and moving Qi.

It's probably unintentional, but I could be assuming too much as well.

[Bubbles]

Edited January 27, 2013 by bubbles

[hydrogen]

 

FYI....

Qigong is the ultimate method of breathing.

Zazen is Static Qigong. One sit and breathe.

Dynamic Qigong: One is often standing with some movements and breathe.

 

If one doesn't breathe, then one is not performing Qigong at all.

 

 

 

If one doesn't breathe, then one is not alive at all.

 

Zazen is sitting meditation. It should help your Qigong. By default, you accumulate Qi if your mind doesn't wander around.

[ChiDragon]

 

If one doesn't breathe, then one is not alive at all.

 

Zazen is sitting meditation. It should help your Qigong. By default, you accumulate Qi if your mind doesn't wander around.

 

If you breathe deeply, you are actually doing Chi Kung.

 

If one doesn't know that Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing, then it is not my problem anymore. I tried. Good luck to those who feel sorry for me..!!!..

Edited January 26, 2013 by ChiDragon