Scientific Approach to Practice

[findley]

"Saying we dont know what magnetism is would be like saying we have no idea what makes a gyroscope stand up when spun"

 

 

>_< If you care to explain the means by which magnetic fields interact with other phenomena, please do let me know JoeBlast jlbwhvw elvh avhsnv

 

perhaps you can point out the force carrier vlawbvWNEVUIEWNVIWUENVILWN

 

maybe you can help me to see how it is distinguishable from gravity filufhiUNFVBIUB

 

mmmmmm..... if there is a magnetic FIELD, and there is an accompanying particle for every field (per wave-particle duality,) then is there a corresponding particle for magnetism?

 

jankjv ew

 

you know, its not just magnetism, either. perhaps you can explain to me the nature of Space?

 

 

lahbvvvvvvfiufeb !!!!!!

[dwai]

I totally agree with you that science as it is today is incomplete and often is stuck in its mechanistic materialist history.

 

So part of this is a language problem, because I certainly don't mean mechanistic materialist science as a philosophy. By science I simply mean an open-minded, ongoing, critical thinking, investigative worldview.

 

This open-mindedness and ability to change itself is where I see the benefit of science. Religion as it is for most people is most certainly not this way and as a result creates unnecessary division. That science seems stuck in a newtonian worldview is either the fault of the perceiver or an example of how slow and difficult it is, which doesn't make it any less important.

 

I would not categorize Vedanta, Yoga, Daoism etc as religions. To read my elaborated view on this point, please read my comments on the following two threads --

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/21908-being-different/

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22956-being-different-2/

 

Specifically addressed to Twinner...I touch upon why these are not religions (in the western sense). These are as open and adventurous in nature as science or perhaps even more so (in fact more so because there is no dogma in the process of inquiry, or the process is not inquiry).

 

I touch upon this subject in an old article -- http://www.medhajournal.com/science/101-the-battle-between-science-and-yoga.html

[ChiDragon]

There is no need to use any scientific ideas or methods to investigate Tao or Taoist alchemy, it doesn't help but conversely bar you from advancing .

 

The best approach is the yin/yang theory plus the jing-qi-shen frameawork having been used for over 2,000 years in the Taoist legacy. It sounds arbitrary and arrogant, but I will try to show you why it is not..

 

When the Luo Pan was first invented for feng shui reading, the ancient Taoists did not know about the "true north" and "magnetic north". In the modern time, the design of the Luo Pan has been changed to take this little scientific idea into consideration.

 

How much do you know about the Taoist alchemy? What is the difference between external and internal alchemy....???

 

2000 years ago, the ancients knew how to breathe better than we do now. However, they didn't know what they were breathing in the air but they do know how to breathe. They didn't know breathing was to provide oxygen for the mitochondria in the body cells to generate the bio-energy ATP. Indeed, they knew breathing will give them lots of energy without knowing why. By all means, the ancients had come up with the ultimate method of breathing called Chi Kung or Qigong.

 

There are lots of things that we didn't know before but we do now. Are you suggesting that we should ignore all the present known scientific facts; even though we can use those facts to help us to explain something better than the ancients...???

Edited March 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[RyanO]

I would not categorize Vedanta, Yoga, Daoism etc as religions. To read my elaborated view on this point, please read my comments on the following two threads --

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/21908-being-different/

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22956-being-different-2/

 

Specifically addressed to Twinner...I touch upon why these are not religions (in the western sense). These are as open and adventurous in nature as science or perhaps even more so (in fact more so because there is no dogma in the process of inquiry, or the process is not inquiry).

 

I touch upon this subject in an old article -- http://www.medhajournal.com/science/101-the-battle-between-science-and-yoga.html

 

First I want to say I admire your dedication to this subject. The article you wrote is very cool and worthwhile reading. I also want to say that I wish I had more time and were more capable in general to address this topic with sufficient attention to bring about a more fruitful discussion.

 

That said, I am certainly not trying to defend the philosophy of materialism.

 

I am just concerned about attaching tribalist labels to particular methods, religious or otherwise. What is true is true and should transcend in group/ out group mentality. It seems to me like science is the best source of knowledge that allows for this, but I am open to different views on the subject.

[Birch]

Yes ... supposed to and has are two different things IMO.

 

Everyday is like Sunday ... not sure if this is relevant but you did mention Mozza.

 

 

Yes, two different things one should not mistake for the other.

I wonder what happened to Mozza. I found a forum sort of dedicated to Mozza-like values yesterday. It was pretty weird. Lots of sensitive people talking about introversion. Very 'yin' kind of vibe.

[exorcist_1699]

When the Luo Pan was first invented for feng shui reading, the ancient Taoists did not know about the "true north" and "magnetic north". In the modern time, the design of the Luo Pan has been changed to take this little scientific idea into consideration....

............

 

There are lots of things that we didn't know before but we do now. Are you suggesting that we should ignore all the present known scientific facts; even though we can use those facts to help us to explain something better than the ancients...???

 

 

Hi, ChiDragon,

 

Thank your ideas. I have to think them over and will try reply you later , a little tired this moment...

[Apech]

Yes, two different things one should not mistake for the other.

I wonder what happened to Mozza. I found a forum sort of dedicated to Mozza-like values yesterday. It was pretty weird. Lots of sensitive people talking about introversion. Very 'yin' kind of vibe.

 

Shoe gazing no doubt. And on the subject of EM - electromagnetism and the like ... apparently it is said that there is a light that never goes out.

 

[doc benway]

I seek enlightenment through understanding, and I think science is the epitomy of this development in our contemporary socio-cultural dynamic. (If anyone knows their hegel, ...or nietzsche... then perhaps you can understand this point of view regarding this kind of evolution.)

More of my unsolicited and opinionated verbiage...

Qigong and other Daoist methods such as Taijquan, neigong, and meditation, are tools that invite us to practice more than think. The mind is not used in these arts as an analytical tool to seek rational understanding through the scientific method of theorem and proof. It's used in different ways that have different benefits. You may subject these methods to rational scrutiny if you choose, but then you will miss the very "understanding" that these methods offer.

 

If you choose to practice Qigong, you don't need to suspend disbelief, only suspend analysis. There is never any need for belief, just awareness.

 

Examining the methods of one paradigm with the methods of another do neither justice. The fundamental axioms are unrelated. Just like Shamanism and Vedanta don't enhance the scientific method's accuracy and effectiveness, nor does applying scientific scrutiny of experiential and tantric practices enhance the experience and benefits derived thereof.

 

So if you "seek enlightenment through understanding," Qigong, Neigong, and related arts are not the right tool. "Enlightenment through understanding" is more in the realm of what the Hindus would call a Jnana Yoga (Yoga of knowledge). Science fits into that category.

[findley]

Steve,

 

taiji, neigong, qigong forms -- they all ahd to be *developed*, right..? How did the Daoists develop and refine these systems...?

 

Knowledge is power in any circumstance. And, if we could possibly figure out what exactly is really happening when we practice any of these forms,

 

then there is the potential for further development, as we have the freedom to refine the practice.

 

It would be a mistake to divorce the rational mind from EM-practice.

[KoffeeKommando]

I understand where the OP is coming from.

Other posters have nailed all the sentiments that matter.

 

To me "science" does not actually exist. If it does, this means it has become a religion with adherents.

Or something straight out of communist ideology.

 

The scientific method can be used to deduce specific things. It's used to describe what is already "here".

Because people using this method have basically "started over" and tossed out the old knowledge, they really put themselves behind. But the "catalog" of things and combinations not yet discovered is enormous.

 

Better to stick with things that have a known track record.

Monks in the mountains have been at it longer

 

It's all good. There is a place for both ways of thinking.

Maybe they don't need to be mixed? Or maybe they *will* be mixed in the far future?

 

I think the "universe" does not need the "scientific method" though.

It was built...assembled...without it. "Science" can only *describe* it...and manipulate *already existing* things very crudely.

 

So what "way" or "method" was/is superior?

 

These two things explain a lot:

 

Sacred Geometry 101E: Metatron's Cube - YouTube - http://bit.ly/GAIICo

A Fuller Explanation: Amy Edmonson - http://bit.ly/GLqqIv

 

Watch the video, read the book by Amy Edmonson.

It will jump right out at you if you are able to understand.

When the video discusses consciousness preceding reality...it's not solely humans he's talking about.

See also: some gnostic beliefs. The original ones dealing with creation.

Buckminster Fuller talked about everything being energy events.

He saw what the real deal was and attempted to describe it.

 

If a pure consciousness created everything "physical" we see, would you rather describe it....or *interact* with "it"?

 

Now that's a question eh?....

[KoffeeKommando]

And, if we could possibly figure out what exactly is really happening when we practice any of these forms,

then there is the potential for further development, as we have the freedom to refine the practice.

 

Tough one.

Our "scientific method" and machines may be completely unsuitable to the task.

Maybe we can only collect a few more puzzle pieces. I guess it can't hurt to try though?

 

Or is there a danger in this line of reasoning. The Tao does possibly warn against this.

 

Is the right way just to align yourself with the nature of things and blend with "it" eventually?

The bird in the hand might just be worth two in the bush.

[exorcist_1699]

When the Luo Pan was first invented for feng shui reading, the ancient Taoists did not know about the "true north" and "magnetic north". In the modern time, the design of the Luo Pan has been changed to take this little scientific idea into consideration.

 

How much do you know about the Taoist alchemy? What is the difference between external and internal alchemy....???

 

2000 years ago, the ancients knew how to breathe better than we do now. However, they didn't know what they were breathing in the air but they do know how to breathe. They didn't know breathing was to provide oxygen for the mitochondria in the body cells to generate the bio-energy ATP. Indeed, they knew breathing will give them lots of energy without knowing why. By all means, the ancients had come up with the ultimate method of breathing called Chi Kung or Qigong.

 

There are lots of things that we didn't know before but we do now. Are you suggesting that we should ignore all the present known scientific facts; even though we can use those facts to help us to explain something better than the ancients...???

 

What Taoist alchemy pays attention to are jing , qi and shen, the basic elements of human life, and their complicated relations ; in fact, most are already fully explained by the TCM and Taoist writings. I have to say , neither jing nor qi can be the objects of study in Western science, if they can be, then people should have already found the mechanism of acupuncture because qi, for example, has already been under modern science's study for more than 70 years; so, the further development of science is unrelated to what our concern here : What is the essence of life ? And ,how to extend and strengthen it ?

 

 

Taoists, in fact, understand the essence of human breathing much deeper ( of course, also earlier ) than the Western science. For example, in TCM , we are told that our breathing is not controlled by our lung as it appears , but in an area called Mengmen ( 命門),located inbetween our kidneys; In Taoist alchemical terms, the origin and capability of our breathing of air/oxygen ( post-natal form) comes from the so-called " pre-natal " qi .

 

(Please note that qi is not equivalent to air or oxygen; pre-natal way of breathing ( of qi) can be initialized by our having entered a state of very deep meditation.. );

 

Western science, at least, in the realm of what happens in human body , is limited by what her insistence on studying things observable , things measureable... yet , if life's essence is something beyond the reach of test tube or those apparatus of measurement, then I have to ask : " What can science do ?"

 

 

I know little about fengshu, so I can't reply question related to that aspect .

 

External and Internal alchemy: a topic too big to tell here, I will try to explore it under a new topic in future.

Edited March 24, 2012 by exorcist_1699

[ChiDragon]

exorcist_1699...

 

Thank you for expressing your outside view of the thread.

[KoffeeKommando]

Taoists, in fact, understand the essence of human breathing much deeper ( of course, also earlier ) than the Western science. For example, in TCM , we are told that our breathing is not controlled by our lung as it appears , but in an area called Mengmen ( 命門),located inbetween our kidneys; In Taoist alchemical terms, the origin and capability of our breathing of air/oxygen ( post-natal form) comes from the so-called " pre-natal " qi .

 

Now I have a question...similar to the questions raised by others here.

 

How did the Taoists come to have this knowledge?

If not observable or measurable by the normal senses and equipment...

 

Western science, at least, in the realm of what happens in human body , is limited by what her insistence on studying things observable , things measureable... yet , if life's essence is something beyond the reach of test tube or those apparatus of measurement, then I have to ask : " What can science do ?"

 

Did "someone" or "something" drop on the scene and hand this knowledge to them?

Did all the knowledge come from "elsewhere" via meditation, dreams, etc?

 

For example, Jesus came and directly explained secret teachings to his followers. The gnostics speak quite a bit about this. Jesus being part man, part "god" would have known this information. He may have been "not of this Earth"...we can only speculate.

 

(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."

Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."

And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

Sounds like some pretty heavy duty information. With a built in protective element.

 

I guess I also ask this in a historical sense. Were there tales of where the Taoist knowledge came from, what it's source was?

Edited March 24, 2012 by KoffeeKommando

[Protector]

It seems complicated but it's not like that

Do you know why some organs are fire element and some water?

These things are assigned to them not for show but because they're a part of a pattern and there's a reason why things move the way they do

After watching things long enough, you start to notice how they work and knowing how things work, you can change how they work

[dawei]

dwai, the observer effect...?

...so how does consciousness influence electrons to behave like particles instead of waves? Can you explain it..?

 

I think this is:

"Particles once thought to be solid were behaving as waves and how they behave was dependent upon whether they were observed.

 

When unobserved the particles took on a state of super-position or infinite potential, or while observed particles take on a well defined locations within finite possibilities."

 

Don't shoot the messenger... It's a link after all...

[findley]

hahaha

 

I know what the observer effect is, dawei--

 

but I hardly think it is a correct conclusion to assume that 'consciousness' is affecting the electrons.

 

In the first place, when their movements are analyzed, *machines*(like cameras,) do all the observing-- and then the human being analyzes the results spit out by the machines.

 

so, there is no *direct* relationship between the change in electron behavior and the conscious, human observer.

 

Who knows what it is, it may be consciousness after-all, it is too early to tell. And even if it is 'consciousness', there is the really difficult question of HOW consciousness (especially through so indirect a relationship,) affect electrons in just such a way ...is... far out.

 

actually, personally, I think it has to do with the recording devices. I think that as the movement of the electrons are recorded by these machines, that the machines are actually affecting them in a way we don't understand yet.

[Birch]

That would make consciouness a separate force - if it effects things. I'm tempted to say that it's not, just takes appearance of.

[ChiDragon]

What Taoist alchemy pays attention to are jing , qi and shen, the basic elements of human life, and their complicated relations ; in fact, most are already fully explained by the TCM and Taoist writings. I have to say , neither jing nor qi can be the objects of study in Western science, if they can be, then people should have already found the mechanism of acupuncture because qi, for example, has already been under modern science's study for more than 70 years; so, the further development of science is unrelated to what our concern here : What is the essence of life ? And ,how to extend and strengthen it ?

 

The notion about the jing, qi and shen is only the imaginary terms from the ancient Taoist thinking. These terms are still not well defined. If you said there are basic elements of human life which leads for me to think that they are the body cells(jing), air(qi) and mind(shen) in modern term. IMO Neither jing nor qi can be the objects of study in Western science because these term are not well define. Since they don't have a good definition, how can anyone going to study them....??? The modern science already have the answer under its noses, but no one want to take the responsibility to admit them.

 

What is the essence of life?

Isn't the body cells are the basic unit of the human body....??? Can we consider that the body cells are the essence of life. Don't we breathe the oxygen in the air to survive. Isn't oxygen the essence of life...???

 

Taoists, in fact, understand the essence of human breathing much deeper ( of course, also earlier ) than the Western science. For example, in TCM , we are told that our breathing is not controlled by our lung as it appears , but in an area called Mengmen ( 命門),located inbetween our kidneys; In Taoist alchemical terms, the origin and capability of our breathing of air/oxygen ( post-natal form) comes from the so-called " pre-natal " qi .

 

"Taoists, in fact, understand the essence of human breathing much deeper ( of course, also earlier ) than the Western science." is an understatement. Taoists know how to breathe only macroscopically; but they did not understand much deeper than the western science. Western science can go into much finer detail, microscopically, inside the lungs. For example, modern science can explain how the blood carry the oxygen to the body cells. Indeed, the ancient Taoists had no idea about that.

 

(Please note that qi is not equivalent to air or oxygen; pre-natal way of breathing ( of qi) can be initialized by our having entered a state of very deep meditation.. );

 

Again, the above quote is another understatement. Qi can be said as air(oxygen) but not restricted to confine to the only definition. Qi has lots of different meaning. The user much have a deeper cultural understanding of the term Qi. Most of the westerners only known one definition of Qi as energy. Unfortunately, that was the only mischief causing the regression in their studies.

 

 

Western science, at least, in the realm of what happens in human body , is limited by what her insistence on studying things observable , things measurable... yet , if life's essence is something beyond the reach of test tube or those apparatus of measurement, then I have to ask : " What can science do ?"

 

Science can do a lot if you know it and how to handle it with an objective and open mind.

[KoffeeKommando]

That would make consciouness a separate force - if it effects things. I'm tempted to say that it's not, just takes appearance of.

 

Consciousness (the original one) is "outside" of and "surrounding" our 3D reality/universe. But small bits of it are "within" our reality. In humans. See gnostic writings.

 

It can affect "things" as physical "things" are made from energy events. Read "A Fuller Explanation".

 

But it's not a force. Can you measure or weigh an idea you have in your head right now?

How big is that thought in your mind right now? How heavy is it?

 

The thing is, the "idea" or intention can make energy move and make things change physical form.

Among other things. There is probably a whole set of things it can do.

We might not normally have enough control over consciousness to "wield" it.

Or there is some other limitation. Unknown at this point. But there are a myriad of stories and legends alluding to this capability.

 

But it's undetectable by measurement devices. Just like a complex idea floating in your head is undetectable.

 

Jesus thought about this as well. He was puzzled about his own construction:

(29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

[ChiDragon]

 

 

Taoists, in fact, understand the essence of human breathing much deeper ( of course, also earlier ) than the Western science. For example, in TCM , we are told that our breathing is not controlled by our lung as it appears , but in an area called Mengmen ( 命門),located inbetween our kidneys; In Taoist alchemical terms, the origin and capability of our breathing of air/oxygen ( post-natal form) comes from the so-called " pre-natal " qi .

 

 

Now I have a question...similar to the questions raised by others here.

 

How did the Taoists come to have this knowledge?

If not observable or measurable by the normal senses and equipment...

 

 

 

Did "someone" or "something" drop on the scene and hand this knowledge to them?

Did all the knowledge come from "elsewhere" via meditation, dreams, etc?

 

For example, Jesus came and directly explained secret teachings to his followers. The gnostics speak quite a bit about this. Jesus being part man, part "god" would have known this information. He may have been "not of this Earth"...we can only speculate.

 

 

Sounds like some pretty heavy duty information. With a built in protective element.

 

I guess I also ask this in a historical sense. Were there tales of where the Taoist knowledge came from, what it's source was?

 

I want clarify that:

In Taoist alchemical terms, the origin and capability of our breathing of air/oxygen ( post-natal form) did not come from the so-called " pre-natal " qi .

 

"Post-natal qi" is something the we eat and breathe to sustain the "pre-natal qi" as defined in the TCM.

 

 

@KoffeeKommando

As far as I know, in the ancient time, the Taoists had no reference sources to go by but their own imaginations and intuitive explanation of their thoughts. They had very limited scientific knowledge. Their increase in knowledge and conclusions were, basically, from learning by their naked eye observations and primitive wisdom.

[dawei]

hahaha

 

I know what the observer effect is, dawei--

 

but I hardly think it is a correct conclusion to assume that 'consciousness' is affecting the electrons.

 

In the first place, when their movements are analyzed, *machines*(like cameras,) do all the observing-- and then the human being analyzes the results spit out by the machines.

 

so, there is no *direct* relationship between the change in electron behavior and the conscious, human observer.

 

Who knows what it is, it may be consciousness after-all, it is too early to tell. And even if it is 'consciousness', there is the really difficult question of HOW consciousness (especially through so indirect a relationship,) affect electrons in just such a way ...is... far out.

 

actually, personally, I think it has to do with the recording devices. I think that as the movement of the electrons are recorded by these machines, that the machines are actually affecting them in a way we don't understand yet.

Glad I made you laugh and your enjoying this so much.

 

Consciousness (intention) can affect our own body and another person's body... so I am not so sure it is that far out. JMO.

[Kempomaster]

Rainbow-- why do I think that the original poster is either lying or deluded? --because 'distance healing' is impossible. It only works for 'eager' people.

 

Well let's start with this quote. The above statement is entirely untrue!

 

Anyone that works with Medical Qigong or Taoist Healing understand that a large percentage of patients that are treated successfully are not just "eager people". In otherwords - the person quoted seems to be suggesting that they are wanting something to work for their problem that we then have a placebo effect. Which would be a result based on the recipients anticipated effect of the treatment. The reason I refer to "those of us that treat" - oftentimes we encounter non-believers, etc that their eatablished belief system would usually prevent them from believing that a person can project Qi and/or be able to heal them without ever laying a finger on them. As a matter of fact, most of those people that we treat have the belief that Qi can not heal them - but with a close to 100% success rate I would suggest the system I am involved in is above a placebo effect or results based on "eager people"

 

1st - I have been employed in the Pharmaceutical industry for over 23 years. I have been taught how to dissect a study. What is a proper study, double-blind, placebo controlled etc etc -- Sounds great. I ahve also had the benefit of talking with many Medical Doctors that are heavily involved in Academics and they have shared their insights with me regarding studies involved in many medicines and treatments. It is almost impossible to eliminate researcher bias. Typically - a person believes in an outcome or they don't -- There usually aren't individuals involved in the study that don't have an opinion. Ask any Medical Doctor and they will tell that any study can be put together to uncover what a researcher wants it to uncover. They can either select the right patients or exclude the right patients. You say - thats why we want people involved that are independant. Good luck -- a large study in Womens Health was published in the last 10 years - that affected how people look at a particular category of medicine. A competing company was out touting the results weeks before the results were released. How is that possible -- somehow their company was chosen to run the statistics. Total Bias!

 

The second problem with scientific studies are the length of time they take to put together, agreed upon treatments, placebo, the number of patients invloved, the recruitment of patients etc. Not to mention the Cost.

 

All that being said - I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN A SCIENTIFIC STUDY INVOLVING MEDICAL QIGONG for ATHLETES. AND IT WAS DONE AND PUBLISHED AT A UNIVERSITY in INDIANA. and YES IT WAS DONE by GRADUATE STUDENTS -FOR " RESEARCH METHODS of PHYSICAL EDUCATION" This study recruited 20 patients that each had pain issues and part of the recruitment reuired that the patients had seen a Medical Doctor and had received a primary diagnosis related to their condition. The patients also were divided into two groups -- either they had a belief in Alternative Medicine - ie Medical Qigong, or they did not believe in Alternative Medicine ie Medical Qigong. They all had used a questionaire prior to treatment to stated their beliefs/non-beliefs as well as a standardized pain rating scale. All patients signed Medical releases agreeing to treatments and in this case they agreed to have up to 3 treatments. All patients received follow-up - post-treatment and the additional follow-up at 1, 2, and 3 months following treatment.

 

I was the Medical Qigong Practitioner that was treating. We did not have a Placebo Practitioner as the time restraints of a 6 month class did not allow us to recruit enough additional patients and to have a placebo Practitioner - rather we felt that dividing the patients into the groups of believers and non-believers would be sufficient for the class.

 

Results: ALL Patients reported improvement on their self-rated pain scale compared to pre-treatment. Most patients felt that their problem had been totally eliminated and these results were regardless of Pre-belief coming into the trial. The results were analyzed statistically and the results were highly statistically significant using a 95% confidence interval.

 

One patient had entered the trial with multiple pain complaints as a result of an auto accident - she had pain due to a fractured shoulder and jaw. She had received 3 Medical Qigong treatments and felt that her shoulder problem was eliminated, however, she felt the jaw pain was unchanged from pre-treatment.

 

Discussion: The results were particularly enlightening when we consider 50% of the patients in the study felt that the treatments would not help their problem. However, regardless of belief the Medical Qigong treatment had a major impact on reducing pain even for the non-believers. This fact is testament to the Power of Medical Qigong in particular the treatments that come from the Stillness-Movement Lineage.

[Kempomaster]

When we talk about placebo effect -- this is an anticipated effect that a person encounters when they are receiving a fake treatment.

 

I mention my pharmaceutical background - because I have read hundreds of Medical Studies and know that the placebo effect can happen up to 50% of the time. Howver, this effect usually wains as time goes on -- in otherwords - placebo works 50% of the time - still working at 1 month, at 2 months only 40% feel it's still working, and by 3 months only 10% feel it's still working.

 

In the study cited above 19 of 20 participants had benefit immediately, and through the 3 months that we had for follow-up. This has been tru for all of the Medical Qigong that I have done. I see close to 100% success rate with in-person and with distance treatments. Yes - there are always a few that don't work as well as we would like - I have had about 6 or 7 out of 700 - 800 individuals that I have treated. You do the math -- less than 1%. Remember when we treat we do it - according to the "Will of God". It doesnt matter if the person expects it to work or expects it not to work -- My Medical Qigong treatments work regardless of anticipated outcome. I credit that to having an excellent teacher as well as participating in a very powerful Qigong system - Stillness-Movement.

[Kempomaster]

Why do I post on this Forum?

 

I have no reason to brag or be delusional.

 

I post so that students of Medical Qigong can get an idea of areas of human need that Medical Qigong can help.

Also animals need these treatments -- I have treated many dogs and horses - great results with animals - actually 100%. And I have Doctors of Veterinary Medicine that will give testimony to that.

 

I have also treated many Medical Doctors - both in person and by distance, they were all skeptical prior to treatment yet they will also give testimony to the effectiveness.

 

The world can be confusing - many are looking to get into Qigong - a system that works for them, perhaps they are meant to be healers, I Post for them. The Stillness-Movement system is powerful and the treatments that I write case reports about are all something that the true student that is willing to invest time and effort in can achieve.

 

I have been involved in Martial Arts for over 35 years - that are many schools out there that will take your money and sell you a belt. But the student will not have any ability after 3 years - they will just be $5,000.00 poorer.

 

I post about the system because I have the scientific evidence that says this works -- I have proven that in tons of Medical Offices with Doctors, nurses, Veterinarians, etc - These are Western trained Medical professionals that were all skeptical before I proved them otherwise.

 

So, I have the proof. Now, I want to share it with those that are truly interested in learning.

 

My Life goal is not to get the "Doubting Thomas's", the "Naysayers" to believe. I am not interested in wasting my time convincing them. They will always say -- yes, but, yes, but.

 

So for that student that wants more - investigate for yourself.

 

By the way - the are case reports of Distance Healing's done - for those in need, yet they didn't know that I had treated. In the case of the child - the parent chose to request and chose to post on their own the results, the child never knew they were being treated. PLACEBO - I don't think so!

 

Thanks,

 

Kempomaster