Can I ever be happy?

[Vmarco]

Edited March 22, 2012 by Vmarco

[joeblast]

12 cranial nerves...12 thieves the redirection of thoughtstreamenergy settles them into a passive resonance that allows for good abundance elsewhere. the key is the root energy, after learning the redirection, the establishing of a better path of least resistance, the impulses can be observed as third person.

[Vmarco]

Edited March 22, 2012 by Vmarco

[Aetherous]

As long as the Six Senses seek energy, happiness can never be realized.

 

Your ideas are blocking your happiness.

[mYTHmAKER]

Can I ever be happy? That is to say, beyond the temporary diversion and serial entertainments where one may think they're happy.

 

The question might prompt one to consider that what the word "happy" points to should first be defined. However, isn't the real clue in the definition of "I?"

 

How do we define "I?" Most may say that "I" is always in reference to an individual; the one who is speaking from their separate viewpoint; a belief that "I" is the hands, eyes, ears, thinking, and so forth of a Self as distinct from Other.

 

The Way of the Bodhisattva says, "We regard parts of the body [arising from the organs of the Six Senses] as a single body to be protected...we cling to it and take care of it. They [the Six Senses] are one with us in wanting to be happy and not wanting to suffer. For this very reason, just as this so-called body of ours is identified as a single entity, in exactly the same way, the whole aggregate of sentient beings could and should be identified a "I," our "I." We should protect them from suffering in just the same way as we protect ourselves....To claim it is reasonable to apply "I" to "this aggregate," and not apply "I" to "another aggregate," is quite unfounded. [bodhisattva] teachings affirm that by applying the name I to the whole collection of suffering beings, and by entertaining and habituating oneself to the thought "they are myself," the thought of "I" will in fact arise with regard to them, and one will come to care for them as much as one cares for oneself."

Shantideva said, "Even if these sufferings of mine have no effect upon the bodies of other sentient beings, they are nevertheless the sufferings of my "I"; they are hard for me to bear precisely because of my ego identity. Again, even if the pains of others do not actually befall me, since I am a bodhisattva and consider others as myself, they are in fact my sufferings and so are unbearable."

Many ordinary men have felt the same sentiment, for example Eugene V. Debs said, "Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

When Mr Debs used the term "I," was that "I" separate from our "I?"

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "the only way to understand [the Tao] is to directly experience it."

 

Yet who realizes that it is impossible to have a direct experience through the 6 senses,...all experience born of the 6 senses can only be experienced through the conditions of the 6 senses.

 

The Liberation of Sentient Beings is attained by lowering oneself to the point before the indoctrination that clings to the 6 senses began. Thus, the second most important Buddhist proverb says, "Find the consciousness you had before you were born." The consciousness before the Six Senses smothered who you really are,...the you that does not change. The you that is not separate from anything else.

 

V

 

No

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

ARE you happy? Why? Why not?

 

 

 

Doo de doo de do deee.... be happy!

 

 

 

Why not?

It's easy, especially if you dont think about it.

 

The less you think (about it) the happier you'll be.

[zanshin]

Evidently, all you need to do is look fit and pretty, save/make lots of money and be organized. I was at supermarket staring at magazine covers and realized this is basic program everyone is supposed to try to do and perhaps I should try harder to get on track to see what happens if I'd accomplish these things. Good grief, that would be easier than becoming liberated of the 6 senses. Instead of doing any of that, I came home went for a long barefoot walk and then ate ice cream, feeling pretty good in spite of it all

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Evidently, all you need to do is look fit and pretty, save/make lots of money and be organized. I was at supermarket staring at magazine covers and realized this is basic program everyone is supposed to try to do and perhaps I should try harder to get on track to see what happens if I'd accomplish these things. Good grief, that would be easier than becoming liberated of the 6 senses. Instead of doing any of that, I came home went for a long barefoot walk and then ate ice cream, feeling pretty good in spite of it all

 

 

im not sure which way you're going with this...

[baiqi]

Sorry if I don't take the time to read you. I'll just answer the question of the topic:

 

YES, YOU CAN.

 

The next question is how. There are ways, search for them.

[thelerner]

IMO happiness flees from over intellectualization.

 

Pondering Can I Be Happy..

 

Does 'Can' imply causality or run in the face of free will?

What is 'I' really? Do 'I' exist? Does the universe? Am 'I' typing right now?

What is 'Be', or not to be?

Why aren't I participating in the transitory illusion of happiness?

Let me consult the scriptures to find and argue there dogmas.

 

Too much. Learn, then forget and be. I can't help but think in the fullness of life the great teachings are meant to be found, chewed over, integrated, then shit out. Forget them, return to a wise foolish child.

 

Don't intellectualize, do something fun. What's fun? It differs, watching children play might give some ideas.

Edited March 22, 2012 by thelerner

[RiverSnake]

You sound way to smart to be happy.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Birch]

Who told you you ought a) to be happy b ) to be so all the time c) sounds contrite but if you're happy all the time how on earth do you know what you're feeling?

 

Zanshin, the mags are to make you feel unhappy. Otherwise you wouldn't buy the shit they're selling.

[Vmarco]

 

 

Don't intellectualize, do something fun. What's fun? It differs, watching children play might give some ideas.

 

 

Actually, the fun that 99.9% of people engage in, is intellectual. Those who realize that, are close to uncovering the Tao. Sentient Beings are so brainwashed with their sentience (the 6 senses).

 

V

[Aetherous]

There's more of that bullshit.

[RiverSnake]

Actually, the fun that 99.9% of people engage in, is intellectual. Those who realize that, are close to uncovering the Tao. Sentient Beings are so brainwashed with their sentience (the 6 senses).

 

V

 

This statement is laughable.

[Protector]

hat a fun thread

[thelerner]

Actually, the fun that 99.9% of people engage in, is intellectual. Those who realize that, are close to uncovering the Tao. Sentient Beings are so brainwashed with their sentience (the 6 senses).

 

V

So, what is fun to you? How do you have it? Is it worthwhile or just a distraction from the serious job of being enlightened?

 

To me, fun happens when I take myself lightly. Just fool around, drinks or games with friends. The improv like atmosphere in my writing group.

 

You talk about the senses and when I meditate, I ignore them. but otherwise, they often give me great enjoyment. The sky and clouds thrill my eyes, the sunshine warms my skin and lifts my spirit. The ice tea (4 bags early grey, 2 red zinger, sprinkle sea salt, little vanilla) soothes my taste buds and is deeply satisfying, sex ain't bad either. My senses are my intimate friends, as long as I balance long term consequences with short term satisfactions, I'm good.

 

Is the ultimate to be hit by a car and paralyzed from the neck down? No longer bothered by those pesky senses? Is it nirvana as long as the I.V. and catheter keep working? I say no.

 

There is a time for all things. And a time to go deep into silence and meditation, but to be truly thankful for the gift of life you have to come out of the meditation again, be it weeks, months or years, and go back to the entangle of life; enjoy and give back something to someone.

[Vmarco]

So, what is fun to you? How do you have it? Is it worthwhile or just a distraction from the serious job of being enlightened?

 

 

The first absolute bodhicitta proverb says, "Treat everything you perceive as a dream." For me, fun is each moment I'm aware of that.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Hua Hu Ching 48. Fun for me is each moment that saying comes before my ignorance.

 

V

[JustARandomPanda]

Evidently, all you need to do is look fit and pretty, save/make lots of money and be organized. I was at supermarket staring at magazine covers and realized this is basic program everyone is supposed to try to do and perhaps I should try harder to get on track to see what happens if I'd accomplish these things.

 

OMG! You're right! You just summed up every magazine and advert in the west. Ah...the programming. Let's all be good little organized drones for the Capitalist Overlords.

[thelerner]

The first absolute bodhicitta proverb says, "Treat everything you perceive as a dream." For me, fun is each moment I'm aware of that.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Hua Hu Ching 48. Fun for me is each moment that saying comes before my ignorance.

 

V

Well, you already know what I think about Lao Tzu quotes from the Hau Hu Ching(i.e. Fraud, written hundreds of years after TTC by people who needed to add weight to there own philosophy).

 

Still since you've presented the saying a few weeks ago I've grappled with it. First the relatively ludicrous first glance of everything you see is an illusion. How can you do something as simple as crossing the street with a belief like that? The cars are not real.. they won't hit me. Do you eat anything with that belief?, the food is not real, I don't really need it. How about bowel movements, another illusion?!

 

To me if you don't know what's real or not, you're going to get life mixed up with fantasy and hurt yourself.

 

Maybe I'm being too confrontational. Can you give examples of how believing nothing is real helps you in getting through real life experiences. Or, if there are no real life experiences how you perform everyday actions while keeping in mind it's all illusion.

 

Still on a deeper basis, I understand our thoughts, our maps are an illusion, maybe correct, maybe not, they are an imperfect representation of the reality out there. Even realizing I have filters and distortions in my mind, its foolish to disavow everything,. There is a reality out there and our job is to learn it and by learning. Not disavow everything and claim nothing exists. Again such foolishness makes life a farce. Because then you're not reading this, and I'm not writing this, and you're not at a computer.

 

Still glad your having some fun.

Fun, Peace Happiness, all good.

Edited March 23, 2012 by thelerner

[Sifu ReL]

Can I ever be happy?

 

no

[Seth Ananda]

The first absolute bodhicitta proverb says, "Treat everything you perceive as a dream." For me, fun is each moment I'm aware of that.

 

V

I Like that, and agree with you.

But I certainly would not try to say that it is the only kind of fun.

 

But to me, the unconditioned, the stainless nature of mind is definitely the source of happiness.

 

In fact I would say that every minor moment of happiness is a tiny window through all our conditioning and inner constructs to that wondrous place. Unfortunately that is why I think all the lesser happiness's {the momentary achievements in time} further bog people down in Ignorance. They wrongly attribute the happiness 'gained' to some material object, which makes no sense as happiness itself is coming from their original nature...

[JustARandomPanda]

Still on a deeper basis, I understand our thoughts, our maps are an illusion, maybe correct, maybe not, they are an imperfect representation of the reality out there. Even realizing I have filters and distortions in my mind, its foolish to disavow everything,. There is a reality out there and our job is to learn it and by learning. Not disavow everything and claim nothing exists. Again such foolishness makes life a farce. Because then you're not reading this, and I'm not writing this, and you're not at a computer.

 

I have a hunch as to what VMarco is getting at. If one actually - in a sustained way - lived for several years FIRMLY with that idea in their head it might not lead to ignoring the danger of say...an oncoming car necessarily (and therein lies the fallacy of many Taoists saying 'emptiness = ignoring fullness in the fullness).

 

My guess is that what it would do is begin to make you start questioning your perceptions and begin to want to pay attention to them in a very sustained manner at all times. ALL TIMES (which I've found is hard as hell to do!)

 

I can kind of infer this by what's happened from it's opposite. The firmly held belief that life is REAL doesn't exactly inspire me to start studiously examining (aka pay attention) to my own impressions. Indeed...it leads to Contentedness...which leads to contentedness with my life exactly as it is - beauty, ignorance, philosophies and warts as is...which is then inferred to be equating to living the Way of the Tao (not so imo..that's knowledge from living one's beliefs...not from living in the Tao like Lao Tzu's Tao te Ching pointed to).

 

Honestly, it's kinda sad I even have to be TAUGHT that it might be a good idea if I did examine my perceptions, my world and my reality. But this lack of examination is one of the unconscious outcomes of the belief that reality is REAL (unless someone suggests to test the belief if the Realness of what you live is or is not the same as the Way of Tao).

 

 

This is one reason why I disagree with Twinner's stance on religions as being short-sighted. And I'm not even sure I agree with VMarco's stance on religions. If religions keep us 'asleep' then ok religions are probably not all that good for us. But sometimes religions are some of the best sources for conking you on the head and getting you to wake up. Witness how Twinner has confessed he's been influenced by Vedanta (obviously he doesn't have a beef with the religion/spiritual tradition Vedanta like he does with a lot of other religion/spiritual traditions like he does with Buddhism and Taoism).

Edited March 24, 2012 by SereneBlue

[hagar]

I have a hunch as to what VMarco is getting at. If one actually - in a sustained way - lived for several years FIRMLY with that idea in their head it might not lead to ignoring the danger of say...an oncoming car necessarily (and therein lies the fallacy of many Taoists saying 'emptiness = ignoring fullness in the fullness).

 

My guess is that what it would do is begin to make you start questioning your perceptions and begin to want to pay attention to them in a very sustained manner at all times. ALL TIMES (which I've found is hard as hell to do!)

 

I can kind of infer this by what's happened from it's opposite. The firmly held belief that life is REAL doesn't exactly inspire me to start studiously examining (aka pay attention) to my own impressions. Indeed...it leads to Contentedness...which leads to contentedness with my life exactly as it is - beauty, ignorance, philosophies and warts as is...which is then inferred to be equating to living the Way of the Tao (not so imo..that's knowledge from living one's beliefs...not from living in the Tao like Lao Tzu's Tao te Ching pointed to).

 

Honestly, it's kinda sad I even have to be TAUGHT that it might be a good idea if I did examine my perceptions, my world and my reality. But this lack of examination is one of the unconscious outcomes of the belief that reality is REAL (unless someone suggests to test the belief if the Realness of what you live is or is not the same as the Way of Tao).

 

This is one reason why I disagree with Twinner's stance on religions as being short-sighted. And I'm not even sure I agree with VMarco's stance on religions. If religions keep us 'asleep' then ok religions are probably not all that good for us. But sometimes religions are some of the best sources for conking you on the head and getting you to wake up. Witness how Twinner has confessed he's been influenced by Vedanta (obviously he doesn't have a beef with the religion/spiritual tradition Vedanta like he does with a lot of other religion/spiritual traditions like he does with Buddhism and Taoism).

 

In a strange way, this is an honest thread.

 

Why isn´t the basic issue addressed; taken to the extreme, or if you go all the way with any one stance or proposition about the world, it mysteriously flips into it´s opposite.? If you deeply believe in nothing, you end up believing in something.

 

Our conditioning forces us to want to be happy. But if you can´t ultimately control the world, how can you be happy?

 

h

[thelerner]