Who are the top people out there?

[Aetherous]

Probably because it's very obvious.

[Birch]

In case someone new and adventurous stops by,...as in, would be great if someday someone would be capable of responding to it,...that is to say, that an experience birthed in belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. So far there has not even been an inquiry as to what that could be pointing to, let alone what it points to.

 

V

 

I thought I was new and adventurous. Apparently not.

Boom boom.

 

Can I suggest something VMarco? That you distill the best of your ideas into some kind of tract/manifesto and link to it? Occasionally quote from yourself to illustrate postings.

 

The kind of antagonism you seem to be raising isn't the kind that seems to get folks riled enough to, well, not sure exactly. Stuff that was much more riling has been and (for now) gone on TTB's.

 

Hey, have you met the mojo doctor?

[Vmarco]

[Cameron]

I presume Vmarco has good intentions, but my feeling reading his posts is something like "you should move into a non conceptual state free of clinging, now I will discourse extensively about things directing you into a clinging, conceptual state."

 

He may very well be awakened, I don't have a clue. But there is a world of difference between someone who is awakened and someone who can help others get awakening.

 

In general, my experience is that even some high level people may not have come to terms with the fact that they aren't teachers. Not everyone can be Buddha or Dogen.

 

Here is my advice, find a teacher you feel is awakened and that you genuinely respect, and just be quiet and follow there advice until your really, really awakened and really, really have something to say.

 

Don't waste time speculating on who is or isn't high level, find out for yourself and practice!

Edited March 27, 2012 by Cameron

[Cameron]

Doh!

 

Vmarco is a woman?

 

And I was sitting here imagining Vmarco was a dude!

 

Thanks for the teaching

[konchog uma]

I'd prefer if this didn't degenerate or turn into a competition.

 

just thought that was relevant to quote at present, and that getting back to the point of this thread would be nice.

[Vmarco]

He may very well be awakened, I don't have a clue. But there is a world of difference between someone who is awakened and someone who can help others get awakening.

 

 

Just as it doesn't matter whom I quote, but just the context of the quote, within the context of the post, so too, it doesn't matter what VMarco's level of awareness is. Personalities are personalities.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well"

 

Honestly,...do you really think that "there is a world of difference between someone who is awakened and someone who can help others get awakening?"

 

How can that possibly be? How can an unaware person help others to awaken? And there are thousands of them, maybe more,...personalities telling you how to awake. And because they make peoples neurosis' feel good, they are seen as "top people."

 

A genuine spiritual teacher is an assassin,...not an appeasor, avoider, and inter-faith advocate,...but an assassin of your ego and beliefs. A teacher who is not Self-actualized, is of little use in pointing the way to end anyones suffering. No Self-actualized person believes in a god. Right there eliminates at least 87% of the population. No Self-actualized person disbelieves in a god,...that eliminates another 12%. Remember, both believing in a god, and beliving in no god, are beliefs.

 

A genuine awakened person can be recognized by their committment to honesty.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "he who desires admiration of the world will do well to amass a great fortune then give it away. The world will respond with admiration in proportion to the size of his treasure. Of course, this is meaningless."

 

VMarco is not a teacher. Her purpose being here is as said,...to observe.

 

Fundamentally, I am not here teaching, proselytizing, nor as an advocate,...my purposes here is one of observation,...observing the responses to the relative and absolute bodhicitta phrases that are designed into nearly all my posts.

 

Cameron writes "Here is my advice, find a teacher you feel is awakened.." How does one find a teacher that is awakened? Does every city and neighborhood have them? What do they look like? Like the Theist Thich Nhat Hanh, who advocates inter-faith based beliefs?

 

IMO, authentic Spiritual Teachers can be recognized by how they go about pointing to ways we can loosen our bindings, not their degree of credentialism, humbleness and being admired by the blind.

 

A good indication of an authentic, self-realized awakened person is that they upset most everything you think is meaningful. An authentic, self-realized awakened person will suggest you let go of all your hopes.

 

An authentic, self-realized awakened person would be like Dolano:

[Birch]

Nice link.

Not necessary the Om Shantis.

[RiverSnake]

just thought that was relevant to quote at present, and that getting back to the point of this thread would be nice.

 

Bump...perhaps Vmarco and Cameron you should make a thread to carry on your debate instead of derailing this one.

[Vmarco]

Bump...perhaps Vmarco and Cameron you should make a thread to carry on your debate instead of derailing this one.

 

"Who are the top people out there? Holy men, Great teachers, Great healers, Living Saints"

 

I find that question addressed in my posts, but didn't see it in yours. Thus my impression is that you're attempting to derail this post.

 

Perhaps you should make a thread for yourself, where you can alter the question whenever you wish,...it could be called the Schizophrenic Fun thread for useless psycho-babble.

 

Personally, I find that those teachers who say stuff like, "anybody who gives you a belief system is your enemy" to be far more interesting.

[Apech]

"Who are the top people out there? Holy men, Great teachers, Great healers, Living Saints"

 

I find that question addressed in my posts, but didn't see it in yours. Thus my impression is that you're attempting to derail this post.

 

Perhaps you should make a thread for yourself, where you can alter the question whenever you wish,...it could be called the Schizophrenic Fun thread for useless psycho-babble.

 

Personally, I find that those teachers who say stuff like, "anybody who gives you a belief system is your enemy" to be far more interesting.

 

Oh please don't start squabbling you guys.

 

A) on the 'top people' thing ... my answer would be I don't really care. I am a bit of a mercurial thief and taking good bits from whoever I find. Loving a teacher is good ... if you find genuine love ... but looking for a guru is a complete waste of time and energy.

 

B ) on the belief thing ... my only belief is that I can understand (know or gnow as you choose) ... that it s possible to gain deeper and deeper realisation ... its not so much a belief as a working praxis I suppose ...

Edited March 27, 2012 by Apech
bad typing as usual

[Cameron]

In any case, people are drawn to what they are drawn to. If a teacher interests you alot, try to check them out!

 

If Vmarco's posts don't interest you, put her on ignore. If my posts don't interest you, put me on ignore.

 

There is nothing to debate. I certainly have no interest in debating here.

 

To simplify what I THINK Vmarco might be trying to say.

 

Adyashanti said "Reality is what is real even when you don't believe in it".

 

Is truth some figment of our imagination? A spectacular idea to be cherished and held on to tightly?

 

Truth is truth.

[Mokona]

Nameless female practictioner, keeping me warm via distant Tummo on a long flight back to the states from Iraq. If you can keep a man warm energeticly, and even play with him while he is in a damn plane, distantly! - you've got some skills.

[Jetsun]

In addition to people I mention all the time,

Mother Meera is someone who is on my short list.

Though I've not physically met her, the vibe is deep and people I've talked to who've met her .. have changed due to that meeting. She's in Germany, btw.

 

~ edit ~

p.s.

Hidden Journey by Andrew Harvey is the account of his interaction w/ Meera. Easy read. Excellent intro to what meeting a Blazing Being is like.

 

Yes I know of someone who got put on the path by Mother Meera, now he is one of the most open hearted people I know but apparently before he was quite aggressive, then he met her and got a hug and realised there was a different better way to try to be in the world. Apparently she opens up some blocked energy pathways in your back with her hugs, I don't think he was instantly transformed as such rather he saw that he needed to take up regular spiritual practice and make up for the mistakes he had made by helping others, so he retrained as a psychotherapist.

 

From the people i have met I rate the Malaysian healer Yap Soon Yeung, he has healed many people and has students in many countries now, he is humble keeps things very simple and doesn't charge much. The Peruvian Shaman Percy Garcia helped me also and is a powerful healer, yet he also scares me a bit but I imagine the best Shamen are meant to be a bit like that. Plus the Dalai Lama of course, people knock him for his popularity but he is a genuine Bodhisattva and people should go to his teachings and see him while he is still travelling so much as he may stop or go into retreat soon.

[zerostao]

here are a few of my teachers

[de_paradise]

here are a few of my teachers

 

Mick Jagger channels so much energy with such ease, crazy youthful body.

[mat black]

Amma.

 

 

Darshan with Amma is an experience of the heart.

So many people are/were deeply touched-young & old from every walk of life. She is extrodinary.

Edited April 25, 2012 by mat black

[JustARandomPanda]

In case someone new and adventurous stops by,...as in, would be great if someday someone would be capable of responding to it,...that is to say, that an experience birthed in belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. So far there has not even been an inquiry as to what that could be pointing to, let alone what it points to.

 

V

 

Actually this is in accord with what I currently understand of the Buddha. I am not a Master Sutra/Sutta scholar but of the ones I've read he repeatedly mentions that his students must get past conditions if they are to be liberated. Conditions only lead to...more conditions. Hence the getting clear of the skandas. Even to the point one finally gets clear of the alaya-vinyana. In fact...as I recall...the Buddha was reluctant at first to teach anything at all about the Alaya-vinyana for fear his students would mistakenly cling to it (aka think they had gotten clear of it - which I read as code for the words 'let go of' - when he knew they really hadn't). It was only many years later when they'd matured from the practices he taught that he saw they were ready for him to teach about it.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Something tells me deep down, that the top teachers aren't alive, but spirits.

[konchog uma]

My pick:

 

Amma.

Darshan with Amma is an experience of the heart.

So many people are/were deeply touched-young & old from every walk of life. She is extrodinary.

 

my girlfriend had darshan with amma, and said it changed her life.

[RiverSnake]

Something tells me deep down, that the top teachers aren't alive, but spirits.

 

If that's the case then that makes them even more accessible.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[mat black]

my girlfriend had darshan with amma, and said it changed her life.

Cool.

[Cat Pillar]

Something tells me deep down, that the top teachers aren't alive, but spirits.

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this were the case.

[eye_of_the_storm]

If you meet the Buddha, kill him!

[paulno]

I'm all about Thich Nhat Hanh. The man radiates love and compassion.