Who are the top people out there?

[Cameron]

Also, I don't really think of him in those terms, but Adyashanti. A modern awakened teacher. Don't beleive me? Go to one of his satsangs and see for yourself.

[Sunya]

i am reading my first book by him, Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light

 

awesome...that's a great book for dream practice. I would recommend also getting Crystal and Way of Light

[konchog uma]

awesome...that's a great book for dream practice. I would recommend also getting Crystal and Way of Light

 

Thanks Sunya!

 

i have been meaning to start practicing dreaming again for so long and now i am reading the book i mentioned, and Tenzin Wangyal's The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. so when i finish with those i will check out the Crystal and the Way of Light! I'm just into the introductions and im reading a couple other books, so i don't know when i will actually start dreaming, but when i get some foundation to talk about, maybe i will start a thread for the dreamers here! that would be cool

 

do you know of any other books from the tibetan perspective on "lucid dreaming"? you can PM me if you don't want to derail the thread

[Cat Pillar]

Hehe, yes but Max is such a cool person I don't even think of him in those terms anymore.

 

He's like my eccentric Bodhisattva friend

 

Hehe, fair enough!

 

I'm so excited for this seminar I can barely contain myself. ^.^

[Aetherous]

Hehe, yes but Max is such a cool person I don't even think of him in those terms anymore.

 

He's like my eccentric Bodhisattva friend

 

I consider him to definitely be a great teacher and healer.

 

I don't know him well enough to say that he's like a saint...and I probably don't have the capability to judge that in someone else.

[Trunk]

In addition to people I mention all the time,

Mother Meera is someone who is on my short list.

Though I've not physically met her, the vibe is deep and people I've talked to who've met her .. have changed due to that meeting. She's in Germany, btw.

 

~ edit ~

p.s.

Hidden Journey by Andrew Harvey is the account of his interaction w/ Meera. Easy read. Excellent intro to what meeting a Blazing Being is like.

[Cameron]

I consider him to definitely be a great teacher and healer.

 

I don't know him well enough to say that he's like a saint...and I probably don't have the capability to judge that in someone else.

 

 

Saint, eh, Christian terminolgy.

 

Max is said to be the reincarnation of a well known ancient Egyptian Master. I experienced enough with him to believe it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Cameron

[Cameron]

It's hard to take someone so seriously that says "I know it sucks but smile anyway". And "If you have serious intent in Kunlun, you won't accomplish anything".

 

But to me it's this quality that is great.

[Aetherous]

Saint, eh, Christian terminolgy.

 

Max is said to be the reincarnation of a well known ancient Egyptian Master. I experienced enough with him to believe it.

 

Saint is one of the things that this thread was asking for.

[Cameron]

Ok

 

Yeah, Max has told me too many wild stories to think of him in terms of being a saint lol.

 

In modern times I would say Ramana Maharshi. I believe Kan San went to India and hung out at Ramana's mountain Aranchala.

 

If he was still alive I would for sure try to go to India to see him.

[Vmarco]

Saint is one of the things that this thread was asking for.

 

Exactly,...and why I named several Living Saints in post #16.

 

As a saint is standardly defined as one of God's chosen,..one officially recognized especially through canonization as preeminent for holiness,...there would be such person as a Buddhist or Taoist saint, except in the minds of Westerners indoctrinated in Christianity. Saint is a French word from the Latin sanctus.

 

No serious mystic would have anything to do with a saint. Serious mystics usually transcend the God meme and theistic points of view.

 

A saint is an ignorant person who outwardly manifests the finest qualities of the ignorant.

 

V

[Aetherous]

Ok

 

Yeah, Max has told me too many wild stories to think of him in terms of being a saint lol.

 

In modern times I would say Ramana Maharshi. I believe Kan San went to India and hung out at Ramana's mountain Aranchala.

 

If he was still alive I would for sure try to go to India to see him.

 

Totally, I was reeeeaalllllly big into Ramana previously. Still read his 'forty verses on reality' from time to time...to try and understand.

 

As a saint is standardly defined as one of God's chosen,..one officially recognized especially through canonization as preeminent for holiness,...there would be such person as a Buddhist or Taoist saint, except in the minds of Westerners indoctrinated in Christianity. Saint is a French word from the Latin sanctus.

 

No serious mystic would have anything to do with a saint. Serious mystics usually transcend the God meme and theistic points of view.

 

A saint is an ignorant person who outwardly manifests the finest qualities of the ignorant.

 

Once again, you are quite extreme in your viewpoints, Vmarco.

[Vmarco]

[konchog uma]

saints are just spiritually attained people. Nobody said anything about morality until you used it to support your claim that saints are ignorant. Saintliness and morality don't have anything more to do with each other than saintliness and ignorance.

[Cameron]

Sifu Jenny was very clear when I met her that the goal of Yigong is non duality.

 

Ramana is a modern teacher that is said to have "attained" that.

 

She said her own teacher, who she learned Yigong from, has not yet attained it.

[Vmarco]

saints are just spiritually attained people.

 

Actually,...saints are not in any way spiritual. Spirituality is a quite often misused and misunderstood word.

 

Absolutely no theist is spiritual,...theism and spirituality are two totally different things. Theism is a direct barrier to spirituality. Theism is 100% in the head. Spirituality is accessed through Heart-Mind.

 

Theism, of which ALL saints by definition are attached to, is a condition that cannot access the Unconditionality of spirituality. Only those emancipated from the God meme can taste spirituality.

 

Unfortunately, most people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless.

 

V

[Vmarco]

Saintliness and morality don't have anything more to do with each other than saintliness and ignorance.

 

On the contrary,...all saints are ignorant,....saintliness and ignorance are synonymous.

 

V

[Cameron]

I think Vmarco has some interesting points.

 

But perhaps his writing style makes for some misunderstanding(I think I get what he is trying to say)

 

I know I praise him repeatedly, but I don't think that there is any modern teacher who points to the matter as elequently, simply and well..helpful to people actually "getting it" like Adyashanti.

 

It's like some "spiritual people" use their knowledge to confuse you further and lead you down and endless road of not finding the truth in yourself.

 

Adyashanti, and the awakened Zen Master I know in Korea do the opposite. Simple, compassionate, straight to the heart of the matter.

[C T]

I think Vmarco has some interesting points.

 

Being observant, one learns even from those who are mired in fixated views... in truth, one could learn ever more so!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

late edit for mistype.

Edited March 26, 2012 by C T

[konchog uma]

Actually,...saints are not in any way spiritual. Spirituality is a quite often misused and misunderstood word.

 

Absolutely no theist is spiritual,...theism and spirituality are two totally different things. Theism is a direct barrier to spirituality. Theism is 100% in the head. Spirituality is accessed through Heart-Mind.

 

Theism, of which ALL saints by definition are attached to, is a condition that cannot access the Unconditionality of spirituality. Only those emancipated from the God meme can taste spirituality.

 

Unfortunately, most people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless.

 

V

 

there are more paths than yours to liberation, and im glad that the world isn't a lot of cardboard cutouts of vmarco. The spirit doesn't discriminate against theists like you do. It avails itself to all equally. I have met theists who are spiritually achieved, and thats where my contribution to this socalled conversation ends.

[Vmarco]

[RiverSnake]

Sifu Jenny was very clear when I met her that the goal of Yigong is non duality.

 

Ramana is a modern teacher that is said to have "attained" that.

 

She said her own teacher, who she learned Yigong from, has not yet attained it.

 

WOW

[C T]

All one can observe from fixated views are the comedy of fixated views,...phenomena desires to sustain phenomena,...beliefs seeking to cling to beliefs. It is why I often say, an experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. Such realization is quite frightening to phenomena or conditions, because neither phenomena nor condition can observe noumena or the unconditional.

 

Of course, those fearful of letting go of conditions will attack anything that threatens them,...thus nearly all teachers avoid what points to the truth, either by design or their own ignorance. People generally want their belief systems reinforced,...and such reinforcing coming from others is commonly called compassion.

 

Most people believe that compassion is the tolerance of conditions and beliefs that step between sentient beings and their direct experience. And most are drawn to such appeasors. Those who have had a direct experience are the enemies of sentient beings sentience.

 

Most people have a vested interest in their beliefs,..they are entrenched in them,...seeking to either harmonize all new accumulations with that beliefs, or kill that which is threatening it.

 

And yet, for many in the world, if you say name someone who is compassionate they might answer, Mother Teresa, Babak Larian, HH Dalai Lama, or Nelson Mandela. And each one would give a different definition of compassion.

 

For me, HH Dalai Lama's definition is the most intriguing, which comes from Shantideva,..."The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible."

 

While commentating on the Dalai Lama's The Four Noble Truth's, Robert Thurman reiterate the Dalai Lamas point of view by saying, "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible."

 

Ah! That is a very different definition of compassion,...one that points to something beyond beliefs and phenomenal fixations. Theravada Buddhists want nothing to do with it,...Western Buddhists scorn it,...the Abrahamic religions think it is total nonsense.

 

But what if compassion wasn't some avoidance or appeasement that keeps humanity asleep? What if compassion was a synonym of honesty? What would it look like if our "Top People" were honest?

 

Osho correctly said, “Start knowing what you really know, and stop believing what you really don’t know. Somebody asks you. “Is there a God?” and you say, “Yes, God is.” Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do. Say, “I don’t know.”. . . False knowing is the enemy of true knowledge. All beliefs are false knowledge.”

 

It doesn't matter who Osho was,...what matters is if this particular message is true.

 

V

The gist of this post appears to have described your personal philosophy most accurately. You seem very familiar with concerns as regards to where you are stuck.

 

 

 

And btw, quotes and messages only become true when reflected against the past. Such become weak and obsolete in the face of present observations. So, it often cause me to wonder why you are so fond of quoting those whom you do not even particularly care about with regards to their achievements as spiritual guides? Rather odd, dont you think?

Edited March 26, 2012 by C T

[Apech]

All one can observe from fixated views are the comedy of fixated views,...phenomena desires to sustain phenomena,...beliefs seeking to cling to beliefs. It is why I often say, an experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. Such realization is quite frightening to phenomena or conditions, because neither phenomena nor condition can observe noumena or the unconditional.

 

....

 

How often do you say this? Oh to be a fly on the wall of your living-room.

[Vmarco]

How often do you say this?

 

In case someone new and adventurous stops by,...as in, would be great if someday someone would be capable of responding to it,...that is to say, that an experience birthed in belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. So far there has not even been an inquiry as to what that could be pointing to, let alone what it points to.

 

V