Advance Energy Techniques

[Sonhoffman]

Download the mp3 I posted above, and use headphones, sit in a recliner and make yourself comfortable, use a sleep mask or a mindfold, focus on breathing deeply and slowly with your abdomen, and relax and go as deep as you can. It isn't as hard as it sounds at all.

 

Thanks.

 

Since my practice nowadays is Stillness-Movement, a recliner is not really the right way to sit for it doesnt allow for the movement part. I do fall into a trance-like state every now and then, with my body buzzing with the energy. So far I haven't been able to go deeper than that or to stay in the state of powerful energetics for very long, some distracting thought activity usually manifests before I even realise it.. I don't mean to sound negative, I know these are beneficial practices even at my level of accomplishment.

 

I do like to use singing bowls and other meditative soundscapes. Spring Forest Qigong meditation CD's have been in heavy use for a couple of years now. I just bought me an indoor fountain made of stone which I like a lot. It even has a mist-producing device with a cool red light

[Thunder_Gooch]

Remember that energy techniques only work if you have chi to work with before hand, and you only accumulate and store chi via deep meditation.

 

Meditation is the base practice for nearly all schools, because you are accumulating chi to use for active exercises.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Since my practice nowadays is Stillness-Movement, a recliner is not really the right way to sit for it doesnt allow for the movement part. I do fall into a trance-like state every now and then, with my body buzzing with the energy. So far I haven't been able to go deeper than that or to stay in the state of powerful energetics for very long, some distracting thought activity usually manifests before I even realise it.. I don't mean to sound negative, I know these are beneficial practices even at my level of accomplishment.

 

I do like to use singing bowls and other meditative soundscapes. Spring Forest Qigong meditation CD's have been in heavy use for a couple of years now. I just bought me an indoor fountain made of stone which I like a lot. It even has a mist-producing device with a cool red light

[Ya Mu]

Remember that energy techniques only work if you have chi to work with before hand, and you only accumulate and store chi via deep meditation.

 

Meditation is the base practice for nearly all schools, because you are accumulating chi to use for active exercises.

Most neigong is meditative technique but not necessarily what one could call simple "meditation". There is also neigong that is movement based as well. Both can generate much Qi. Best combination is both movement and meditative.

Stillness-Movement goes really deep in meditation but it is not like "zen" based meditations. The attuned energetics move the body. I have posted this before but somewhere you can find details of a Japanese study where they monitored brain waves of both Qigong guys and Zen guys in meditation. Both calmed the brainwaves but the qigong guys stimulated creative centers of the brain whereas the Zen guys didn't.

Stillness-Movement generates lots of Qi. Inside a short period of time most practitioners can perform wai qi liao fa.

[Thunder_Gooch]

All I know is what I've studied, about the most famous systems like Buddhist tummo (inner fire), Mo Pai, and Longmen Pai.

 

All start with deep meditation, all focus on filling the lower dan tein via meditation.

 

Also from my own personal experience and observation it isn't possible to gather qi and store it in your body unless in a deep trance state.

 

Of course every system has different goals, and it may not be necessary to fill the LDT in your system. I've never invested much time researching stillness movement qigong.

 

 

Most neigong is meditative technique but not necessarily what one could call simple "meditation". There is also neigong that is movement based as well. Both can generate much Qi. Best combination is both movement and meditative.

Stillness-Movement goes really deep in meditation but it is not like "zen" based meditations. The attuned energetics move the body. I have posted this before but somewhere you can find details of a Japanese study where they monitored brain waves of both Qigong guys and Zen guys in meditation. Both calmed the brainwaves but the qigong guys stimulated creative centers of the brain whereas the Zen guys didn't.

Stillness-Movement generates lots of Qi. Inside a short period of time most practitioners can perform wai qi liao fa.

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ya Mu]

All I know is what I've studied, about the most famous systems like Buddhist tummo (inner fire), Mo Pai, and Longmen Pai.

 

All start with deep meditation, all focus on filling the lower dan tein via meditation.

 

Also from my own personal experience and observation it isn't possible to gather qi and store it in your body unless in a deep trance state.

 

Of course every system has different goals, and it may not be necessary to fill the LDT in your system. I've never invested much time researching stillness movement qigong.

I agree that if one does not build a lower dan tian they have no foundation for inner alchemy. Also agree that the more reliable & valid systems do that. We certainly do in Stillness-Movement. In Stillness-Movement seers see it as first the dan tian starts glowing brighter and brighter, the energy gets denser and denser until it rises up through the body and opens each energy center in a natural unforced manner, then pops out the top of the head connecting one with the universe. Of course as this happens energy naturally circulates through all the channels and all the orbits, again without forcing.

The movements do assist in building Dan Tian and raising the vibrational frequency of the energy body. Most poeple who do the movements feel this. This raising of the vibrational frequency is necessary for true inner alchemy and is one of the things that happens with transmutation of dan tian inside Stillness-Movement. I can't really comment on the systems you mention but would think they should do similar process for creating then filling dan tian. One of the things that differentiates Stillness-Movement is that the teacher creates dan tian for the students; this can significantly decrease the time involved; the student doesn't have to do this from scratch. But no substitute for time&effort. We still have to do 3 - 5 hours a day if we wish to project qi in clinic for 8 hours a day.

No one actually has a dan tian until it is created through time&effort. They have a place but not a field.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I guess maybe we are comparing apples to oranges, tummo/mo pai/longmen pai are different practices from stillness movement. All I know is what I've been taught and what I myself have observed and experienced.

 

According to my research and observation, it is not possible to fill the lower dan tein without a lot of deep meditation and focus. If you can't go deep into meditation it could take several years of daily practice even.

 

If the end goal is not to fill up the LDT then it doesn't really matter, but there is no other way to do it that I am aware of.

 

 

“You know how in meditation we slow down our breathing and our pulse? It’s because we move more and more into our yin consciousness.”

 

"I will enter total meditation—like the borderline between sleep and waking, okay?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“What is Level One exactly?” I asked. “You’ve shown me the training method, but we’ve never talked about what I’m supposed to be doing,” “In Level One you fill up your dantien with yang ch’i. You must be in actual meditation to achieve this, and it is time dependent. In Level Two we shape the yang ch’i to our specifications so that the practitioner can push it out of his body. This is what neikung is, really.” “What about Level Three?” “We can talk about that when the time comes. I will tell you this: In Level Four you bring your yin and yang ch’i together and begin to become as I am.” “How many different levels are there?” “Seventy-two.” “What?!” John smiled. “No one said it was easy. The levels correspond to the number of chakras in the human body. You know what a chakra is? An energy center?” “These days everybody does.” “Perhaps. The last chakra to open, Level Seventy-Two, is at the very top of your head.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John took a sip of tea. “It was at that time,” he said, “that I began to realize what my teacher was. He made me promise I would meditate and train diligently to obtain this power, and I agreed readily, of course.”

 

 

 

 

 

We moved over to a table and John began to jot down notes for me. “Look,” he said, “I have already told you that Level One is simply to fill up your dantien with yang ch’i, right? That requires eighty-one hours of absolute meditation. Now, a beginning student cannot hold his concentration for long. Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually in meditation for 1.3 minutes. That means he is meditating only 2.2 percent of the time, which means that if he sits for one hour a day, he needs ten years of training to get his eighty-one hours of meditation.” “What is actual meditation like?” I asked. “There are no thoughts and there is no sense of time. If you are thinking, you are not in meditation. If you are aware of yourself, you are also not in meditation. You must become like a baby in the womb, there and yet not there. Meditation is like the borderline between sleep and waking, between consciousness and unconsciousness.” “Very difficult.” “Not so difficult, Kosta. You stayed in meditation for long periods when you were an embryo and a baby, and you pass through it now each time you drift off to sleep. You just have to remember how.”

 

 

I agree that if one does not build a lower dan tian they have no foundation for inner alchemy. Also agree that the more reliable & valid systems do that. We certainly do in Stillness-Movement. In Stillness-Movement seers see it as first the dan tian starts glowing brighter and brighter, the energy gets denser and denser until it rises up through the body and opens each energy center in a natural unforced manner, then pops out the top of the head connecting one with the universe. Of course as this happens energy naturally circulates through all the channels and all the orbits, again without forcing.

The movements do assist in building Dan Tian and raising the vibrational frequency of the energy body. Most poeple who do the movements feel this. This raising of the vibrational frequency is necessary for true inner alchemy and is one of the things that happens with transmutation of dan tian inside Stillness-Movement. I can't really comment on the systems you mention but would think they should do similar process for creating then filling dan tian. One of the things that differentiates Stillness-Movement is that the teacher creates dan tian for the students; this can significantly decrease the time involved; the student doesn't have to do this from scratch. But no substitute for time&effort. We still have to do 3 - 5 hours a day if we wish to project qi in clinic for 8 hours a day.

No one actually has a dan tian until it is created through time&effort. They have a place but not a field.

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[JohnC]

 

According to my research and observation, it is not possible to fill the lower dan tein without a lot of deep meditation and focus. If you can't go deep into meditation it could take several thousands of hours even.

 

 

Dude it doesn't sound like apples to oranges. It sounds more like you think it should be very difficult. All the quotes you've posted are in line with what Lomax has posted. And as he's said you do fill the LDT.

 

In stillness movement, it develops the lower dantien very quickly, in my experience, faster than any system I've experienced.

 

And the practice itself takes you very deep very quickly. Not forced, but definitely facilitated. I'll be practicing, and an hour will fly by. Like I'll come to with a jerk, look at the clock and realize I've hit my hour of practice.

 

It sounds to me like you think it should be really hard. And if it isn't difficult it isn't doing anything? Which also sounds like it is getting in the way of your practice, which surprised me in reading some of your posts, that you don't practice that much even though you occur very diligent in learning about all this.

 

But also in my experience, hard doesn't necessarily mean more effective.

 

John

[Thunder_Gooch]

I never said it should be difficult.

 

It becomes difficult for most people because they do not understand the state they are trying to get to in meditation, so they are just stuck spinning their wheels in the mud thinking they are moving forward.

 

I won't argue about it further, I only know what I've been taught and what I've experienced for myself.

 

If you are convinced what you are doing is working, then by all means keep doing it. I am not here to stop you, or tell you that you're are doing it wrong.

 

 

 

 

Dude it doesn't sound like apples to oranges. It sounds more like you think it should be very difficult. All the quotes you've posted are in line with what Lomax has posted. And as he's said you do fill the LDT.

 

In stillness movement, it develops the lower dantien very quickly, in my experience, faster than any system I've experienced.

 

And the practice itself takes you very deep very quickly. Not forced, but definitely facilitated. I'll be practicing, and an hour will fly by. Like I'll come to with a jerk, look at the clock and realize I've hit my hour of practice.

 

It sounds to me like you think it should be really hard. And if it isn't difficult it isn't doing anything? Which also sounds like it is getting in the way of your practice, which surprised me in reading some of your posts, that you don't practice that much even though you occur very diligent in learning about all this.

 

But also in my experience, hard doesn't necessarily mean more effective.

 

John

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ya Mu]

I guess maybe we are comparing apples to oranges, tummo/mo pai/longmen pai are different practices from stillness movement. All I know is what I've been taught and what I myself have observed and experienced.

 

According to my research and observation, it is not possible to fill the lower dan tein without a lot of deep meditation and focus. If you can't go deep into meditation it could take several years of daily practice even.

 

If the end goal is not to fill up the LDT then it doesn't really matter, but there is no other way to do it that I am aware of.

MPG - I am agreeing with you - not arguing with you. Only saying in addition that moving meditative practices based on neigong are also extremely helpful. A person that doesn't wish to project qi to others can progress in as little as an hour a day, especially once the dan tian has been created. If a person wishes to gain enough to perform wai qi liao fa on a regular basis it is advisable to do 3 to 5 hrs of practice a day in the Jing Dong Gong system.

[Thunder_Gooch]

MPG - I am agreeing with you - not arguing with you. Only saying in addition that moving meditative practices based on neigong are also extremely helpful. A person that doesn't wish to project qi to others can progress in as little as an hour a day, especially once the dan tian has been created. If a person wishes to gain enough to perform wai qi liao fa on a regular basis it is advisable to do 3 to 5 hrs of practice a day in the Jing Dong Gong system.

 

Sure active exercises are also very much part of the equation too, as they counterbalance meditation.

 

The way I see it both are equally important. If you wish to become stronger you must eat right to feed your body, after that you must do the correct exercises till tired, and then rest deeply to recover, and repeat.

Doing this builds momentum, just like rocking on a swing, higher and higher. For every action there must be an opposite and equal reaction.

 

Both meditation and active exercise must be in a good balance if you wish to move forward.

 

 

Maybe Jing Dong Gong blends meditation and movement, I don't know as I haven't practiced it.

 

 

I want to experiment with trying to gain control of my physical body while deep enough in trance to see with my eyes closed. If I can integrate both states into one state I may be able to be in both worlds at the same time, and get some interesting results.

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Mokona]

I want to experiment with trying to gain control of my physical body while deep enough in trance to see with my eyes closed. If I can integrate both states into one state I may be able to be in both worlds at the same time, and get some interesting results.

 

My friend Matt had that happen accidently as he was doing KAP and meditation(seeing spirits). Since it was an accident, if I asked him what he was doing when that happened it might not be of interest, but if you want I'll inquire, then PM you the results.

[Thunder_Gooch]

My friend Matt had that happen accidently as he was doing KAP and meditation(seeing spirits). Since it was an accident, if I asked him what he was doing when that happened it might not be of interest, but if you want I'll inquire, then PM you the results.

 

Sounds interesting Thank you.

[Green Tiger]

Download the mp3 I posted above, and use headphones, sit in a recliner and make yourself comfortable, use a sleep mask or a mindfold, focus on breathing deeply and slowly with your abdomen, and relax and go as deep as you can. It isn't as hard as it sounds at all.

 

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to use ear plugs and just close my eyes. I would like to get a mindfold though, for moving practices where the temptation to open my eyes is greater. The cool thing about ear plugs, I've noticed, is that I can hear my breath better when I have them in. That way I can tell if how smooth, regular, ect.

 

Never been so deep that I could see the spirit world though.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Never been so deep that I could see the spirit world though.

 

I am not so sure it is the spirit world, looks exactly the same as real life, only in HD and more vibrant color.

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Creation]

Maybe Jing Dong Gong blends meditation and movement, I don't know as I haven't practiced it.

Hence the name.

 

"jing gong" = still qigong

"dong gong" = moving qigong

"Jing Dong Gong" = both simultaneously

 

I remembered last year when this was posted:

After more then a year I can say with confidence that Stillness movement builds immense energy and with dedicated practice you can fill the DT very quickly. Quicker then Mo Pai! lol... yes I can say that because I'm beyond level one MP .

I thought that all they guys who were interested in Mo Pai would be on the next flight to Missouri when they read this. I don't think that happened though. I've never read Magus of Java, but I get the feeling that Michael doesn't have the same mystique as John Chang. Or rather, he has a different type of mystique.

[mjjbecker]

Michael's 'problem' is that he isn't Chinese and doesn't attempt to make what he does mysterious (the mists of time BS, remote temples, etc. You know the drill) or exclusive (people love exclusive in particular-'I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!'). If he was Chinese and did follow this business model, lots more people would be chasing after him. Also, there isn't the martial arts element-people seek the 'ultimate' system to bolster their fears.

 

Should people seek out Michael to learn from? Honestly, not if what he does doesn't resonate with them. However, don't allow intellectual prejudice blind your judgement (been there, done that, many times). It is something you have to 'LISTEN' for.

 

What I can say is this. Anyone who does seek out Michael, learns what he does and then PRACTICES it, will not regret doing so. The same cannot be said for some other methods.

 

Bottom line. He's a lineage master of one of the foremost energetic and spiritual schools anyone is ever likely to come across.

[JohnC]

Michael's 'problem' is that he isn't Chinese and doesn't attempt to make what he does mysterious (the mists of time BS, remote temples, etc. You know the drill) or exclusive (people love exclusive in particular-'I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!'). If he was Chinese and did follow this business model, lots more people would be chasing after him. Also, there isn't the martial arts element-people seek the 'ultimate' system to bolster their fears.

 

 

Not for my seminar.

 

When he first walked in as he opened the doors to the inner sanctum of the Marriott training grounds ethereal mists cascaded past him into the room bathing everyone in an otherworldly light.

 

He approached us with an inscrutable look, masking the depth of knowledge within, stroking a long fu manchu in his oriental robes.

 

And then as we all waited on baited breath he said ' alright ya'll, were going to talk about nei gong now.'

 

 

 

But yea I totally agree.

 

The only masterly stuff he does is listen with a knowing smile, and not talk about the technical stuff, saying 'don't worry about that' if you ask, but teaches very straight forward, practical and down to earth.

 

Simply.

 

John

[JohnC]

Hence the name.

 

"jing gong" = still qigong

"dong gong" = moving qigong

"Jing Dong Gong" = both simultaneously

 

I remembered last year when this was posted:

After more then a year I can say with confidence that Stillness movement builds immense energy and with dedicated practice you can fill the DT very quickly. Quicker then Mo Pai! lol... yes I can say that because I'm beyond level one MP .

 

I thought that all they guys who were interested in Mo Pai would be on the next flight to Missouri when they read this. I don't think that happened though. I've never read Magus of Java, but I get the feeling that Michael doesn't have the same mystique as John Chang. Or rather, he has a different type of mystique.

 

This just deserves repeating.

 

John

[joeblast]

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to use ear plugs and just close my eyes. I would like to get a mindfold though, for moving practices where the temptation to open my eyes is greater. The cool thing about ear plugs, I've noticed, is that I can hear my breath better when I have them in. That way I can tell if how smooth, regular, ect.

Of course one mustnt overuse some tools lest they become a crutch Why did earplugs lead me to the psoas Because I smoothed my breath until I couldnt hear it, then put in the earplugs, and smoothed until I once again couldnt hear it or even feel it - but mostly I dont use them these days, even -35db isnt acoustical isolation Use the tool and grasp the root, but once you've grasped the root, and different tool might be apropos...

[Thunder_Gooch]

I think your advice is extremely valuable mjjbecker. People should do what resonates with them.

 

I think before you invest any time in any school you should ask yourself, what is my end goal? What am I trying to accomplish?

 

You shouldn't waste your time with systems that don't match up with your goals for practice.

 

"Advanced" is in the eye of the practitioner, based on their goals for practice. One man's garbage is another man's treasure and vice versa.

 

 

 

Michael's 'problem' is that he isn't Chinese and doesn't attempt to make what he does mysterious (the mists of time BS, remote temples, etc. You know the drill) or exclusive (people love exclusive in particular-'I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!'). If he was Chinese and did follow this business model, lots more people would be chasing after him. Also, there isn't the martial arts element-people seek the 'ultimate' system to bolster their fears.

 

Should people seek out Michael to learn from? Honestly, not if what he does doesn't resonate with them. However, don't allow intellectual prejudice blind your judgement (been there, done that, many times). It is something you have to 'LISTEN' for.

 

What I can say is this. Anyone who does seek out Michael, learns what he does and then PRACTICES it, will not regret doing so. The same cannot be said for some other methods.

 

Bottom line. He's a lineage master of one of the foremost energetic and spiritual schools anyone is ever likely to come across.

Edited April 14, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[someone else]

Yet there is still so much the western world has yet to understand and just like how much I believe these phenomena are possible I believe the knowledge and training that is so guarded is simply limiting our race at this point. It may be naive of me to think so, but I also think/believe that it's a very racially and ethically, charged subject.

I think before you invest any time in any school you should ask yourself, what is my end goal? What am I trying to accomplish?

This also what Danaos say from before 12 year when he write second book. Also in interview. He believe everything physical and in Mind. Small mind and Mind. But is everythign in east and west all with politistic gift wrap and everyone have interest and try to protect for themselves. Like army security.

[astralc]

All I know is what I've studied, about the most famous systems like Buddhist tummo (inner fire), Mo Pai, and Longmen Pai.

 

All start with deep meditation, all focus on filling the lower dan tein via meditation.

 

Also from my own personal experience and observation it isn't possible to gather qi and store it in your body unless in a deep trance state.

 

Of course every system has different goals, and it may not be necessary to fill the LDT in your system. I've never invested much time researching stillness movement qigong.

 

From my understanding and experience filling the dan tien can be done by static meditation, nei gung, and dynamic, tai chi. You are right, the more chi you have the more you can do with it in a deep state trance.

[Cheshire Cat]

From my understanding and experience filling the dan tien can be done by static meditation, nei gung, and dynamic, tai chi. You are right, the more chi you have the more you can do with it in a deep state trance.

 

The Dan Tien formula is ok for certain guys, but not for everyone.

It's common to have a few "collateral effects" while working single-minded

on the dan tien spot.

If my memory is not cheating, there's a book out there that talks about this topic.

I think that the basic healty method to accumulate energy for meditation is

"celibacy" + "watching the thoughts" rather than cultivate dantien from the beginning...

[Practitioner]

Look, having experience with some tenaga dalam schools in Indonesia I will definitely testify that it is possible to gain large amounts of energy through standing breath compression exercises and little bits of meditation before and after. In the systems that I've trained in before the main focus was on the body rubbing and the breath compression.

 

I have done this to the point of being able to pass my teacher's tests such as hardening an incandescent lightbulb with my chi so that when it is thrown at cement it does not break but bounces.

 

I also know of the fiery heat that you get within deep meditation at the lower dantien, but not all systems work with it, and you dont have to actually have felt this to have energy to do some very wonderful things. Since I've experimented with different systems quite a bit so I speak from experience.

 

It all has to do with the way your system works; not all of them are the same, so I don't believe that it is so easy to lump and judge them all according to one specific category.

[Cheshire Cat]

Perhaps. Unless you have a proven practice that safely cultivates the dantien from the beginning...

 

This is the right place to share this practice

Thank you in advance.