Advance Energy Techniques

[Friend]

as if a high level technique is easy grasped without the foundation of the specific system even the principles rule in every system but used different.

 

They are beyond imagination and visualisation and hidden in each a traditional technique

also some can be found in New Age and the Youtube where it became the "tenthousand things" with masters over masters presenting their methods which some has brought to high level.

 

Because it is nota secret it does not mean it is not high level and just ordinary because you can buy the scripts openly for some bucks or some people just post it with a snickering or just with good intention that someones not only see but recognize and do.

This world is a world for practioners and on is measured by ones own developement.

If you are not share the same reality like a practioner you will just listen behind closed doors.

 

 

And making people to work 10-15 hours working on inner level of a particular method is not a good intention, if I would tell something. You have better things to do like horsestance, posting in forums,eating french fries or flirt.

 

Mostly the high level prevents itself from getting known by the unabillity to recocnize - even it is front of your nose or having preparation to unlock them and some are hidden by veils between the material area of perception and those of others.

Cast pearls before swine is the ignorance of the swine and the recklessness of the giver. You say something and they do not believe it.

 

Goldworth knowledge is like good wine is for those who know about wine

and taste and smell the difference and maybe even by look can say where the wine has grown, sunny, the weather and read the whole story and creation of the art in front.

 

For others its just bitter or to dull the senses.

 

While on high level the distance caused by causality between manifestation and intent is shortend and here it is a matter of energy and concentration. So 5 min empty mind became high level when you can do this 4 hours. You think and it happens.

What is created will last. And such "High Level Technique" is avoided on all circumstances.

[konchog uma]

How much experience do I get?

 

the purpose of this thread is the end boss of the game dude

 

mabu FTW

 

chaotic good level 54 thread-destroyer!

[joeblast]

Why dont you just suspend down from the crown point. Then you can stand long and not get drained, tired, aches and pains will also disappear. When you suspend from crown point your body automatically relaxes...so you aren't straining your muscles that much.

 

Although I don't see the point of standing in horse stance for hours...why do you do it?

 

Here are my teacher's notes on how to find the suspension point --

 

http://gbolarts.com/pages/notes_archive/notes_001.html

I love the suspension point! My preferred method is to circle then wave, heh, baihui is unambiguous and tells you where straight up is.

 

 

Here's my friend doing it, it's different from other horse stances and there are some visualizations you need to do that would be more distracting then the tongue thing, but after a while even they are not enough to keep my mind occupied

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2urE9bFzY

 

What it did so far is clean out all the blockages even in my heart, increased recovery time for everything and I don't get sick lately at all, but let's not jinx it, I get very frequent synchronization things where what I say goes, I say this will happen and it happens. And I hear it builds up more chi

I was really tempted to post up some swedish chef, because that's what this dude's voice reminded me of in a way That stance is imho missing a good pelvic connection, which requires good psoas connection, which requires good reverse breath with good psoas connection...

 

If you have back issues or come from a long line of bad backs, I'd advise against the way the stance is in that vid.

 

How's about this - begin in a more upright zhan zhuang and slowly work your way down, but keep your lumbar spine perpendicular...the spine in general, but you can focus a little more on the lumbosacral junction and keeping that perpendicular to the ground, as you work your way downward. Spine a la the "tiger squat" portion of xing shen zhuang for those of you familiar with it, I'm unsure if that name correlates to other systems.

 

Pay attention to the pelvic socket for the head of the femur after proper alignment has been done and you have assumed your general stance. Draw a big black single mental arrow flowing from the sacrum outward through the pelvic bones and into the femur, down through the legs...from lumbosacral spine to psoas major to minor to iliacus, ilium, ischium, femur...

 

 

Use that as a fulcrum with the psoas solidly supporting the lumbar spine, the rest of the spine piled up neatly upon one another like a great pyramid, suspend from the baihui or if you have the sensitivity the chakra above the crown, relax the ankles, relax the epigastrum, smile and let the hear center shine. The line will help on the exhale of the reverse breath

 

Roooooooooooooot

[dwai]

I love the suspension point! My preferred method is to circle then wave, heh, baihui is unambiguous and tells you where straight up is.

 

 

 

I was really tempted to post up some swedish chef, because that's what this dude's voice reminded me of in a way That stance is imho missing a good pelvic connection, which requires good psoas connection, which requires good reverse breath with good psoas connection...

 

If you have back issues or come from a long line of bad backs, I'd advise against the way the stance is in that vid.

 

How's about this - begin in a more upright zhan zhuang and slowly work your way down, but keep your lumbar spine perpendicular...the spine in general, but you can focus a little more on the lumbosacral junction and keeping that perpendicular to the ground, as you work your way downward. Spine a la the "tiger squat" portion of xing shen zhuang for those of you familiar with it, I'm unsure if that name correlates to other systems.

 

Pay attention to the pelvic socket for the head of the femur after proper alignment has been done and you have assumed your general stance. Draw a big black single mental arrow flowing from the sacrum outward through the pelvic bones and into the femur, down through the legs...from lumbosacral spine to psoas major to minor to iliacus, ilium, ischium, femur...

 

 

Use that as a fulcrum with the psoas solidly supporting the lumbar spine, the rest of the spine piled up neatly upon one another like a great pyramid, suspend from the baihui or if you have the sensitivity the chakra above the crown, relax the ankles, relax the epigastrum, smile and let the hear center shine. The line will help on the exhale of the reverse breath

 

Roooooooooooooot

 

When i first started learning from my teacher, i used to wonder how normal human beings could stand so long without moving and he kept saying suspend up, suspend up. One day at home, i started feeling a little tornado whirling above my crown point. Then i realized that suspension is not just physical alignment...it is an energetic connection to sky energy...

 

So then over the years we learnt that to balance out suspension, we drop our tailbone a bit and the vertebrae gently float between heaven and earth...like a bunch of pearls on a string....not too tight, not too loose

[Jamyang Dorje]

The "tongue thing" is actually a good addition to stance training and zhan zhuang, and has a very specific purpose that will become obvious in time. Don't stop doing it.

 

Like others have said, learn to use Bai Hui to suspend from, and cultivate the skill to hold it in a relaxed manner higher up before worrying about low 90 degree Ma Bu. Gradually practice relaxing into a lower stance and really melting into the earth, "sitting on your legs" so to speak.

 

The mental game can be tougher than the physical challenges, but keep on keeping on. It pays huge dividends if you can learn to relax into it.

 

-jd

 

 

Here's my friend doing it, it's different from other horse stances and there are some visualizations you need to do that would be more distracting then the tongue thing, but after a while even they are not enough to keep my mind occupied

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2urE9bFzY

 

What it did so far is clean out all the blockages even in my heart, increased recovery time for everything and I don't get sick lately at all, but let's not jinx it, I get very frequent synchronization things where what I say goes, I say this will happen and it happens. And I hear it builds up more chi

[mYTHmAKER]

Here's my friend doing it, it's different from other horse stances and there are some visualizations you need to do that would be more distracting then the tongue thing, but after a while even they are not enough to keep my mind occupied

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ZD2urE9bFzY

 

What it did so far is clean out all the blockages even in my heart, increased recovery time for everything and I don't get sick lately at all, but let's not jinx it, I get very frequent synchronization things where what I say goes, I say this will happen and it happens. And I hear it builds up more chi

 

Your friends back is curved in a concave manner - his back should be flat to convex

[mYTHmAKER]

The "tongue thing" is actually a good addition to stance training and zhan zhuang, and has a very specific purpose that will become obvious in time. Don't stop doing it.

 

Like others have said, learn to use Bai Hui to suspend from, and cultivate the skill to hold it in a relaxed manner higher up before worrying about low 90 degree Ma Bu. Gradually practice relaxing into a lower stance and really melting into the earth, "sitting on your legs" so to speak.

 

The mental game can be tougher than the physical challenges, but keep on keeping on. It pays huge dividends if you can learn to relax into it.

 

-jd

 

i don't suspend from the Bai Hui i find it too stiff.

I was taught to suspend from the V notch right below my neck.

This allows my head to be free and float up.

[konchog uma]

i don't suspend from the Bai Hui i find it too stiff.

I was taught to suspend from the V notch right below my neck.

This allows my head to be free and float up.

 

the v notch in the front, where the throat meets the sternum?

 

i like that idea but i don't understand exactly what you mean

 

i am suspending from the C7 vertebrae and letting my head float up and i like it! cool idea

[thelerner]

Every time I do horse stance I stop because of the pain and sometimes I even get sore

I want to recover from soreness faster and to never stop the horse stance

A trick runners do (its also in the book Chi Running) is after a run lay on there backs with there legs up and against the wall, ie they look like an L; laying down with legs resting straight up on a wall. This tends to 'detox' and drain the leg. My wife does it and it seems to help.

 

 

P.S. I assumed you were doing 4 or 5 hours of horse stance a day .

Edited March 29, 2012 by thelerner

[Protector]

hours

 

Any comment for legs falling asleep?

[mYTHmAKER]

the v notch in the front, where the throat meets the sternum?

 

i like that idea but i don't understand exactly what you mean

 

i am suspending from the C7 vertebrae and letting my head float up and i like it! cool idea

 

See diagram below - right between the clavicles.

Knees are slightly bent - spine drops - hangs down from between the clavicles and your spine elongates.

If you suspend from the top of the head you move too stiffly especially if you are doing a form.

You can practice this anytime as much as possible all the time - sitting or just walking around.

 

[konchog uma]

See diagram below - right between the clavicles.

 

thats a great technique, thanks for sharing!

[dwai]

See diagram below - right between the clavicles.

Knees are slightly bent - spine drops - hangs down from between the clavicles and your spine elongates.

If you suspend from the top of the head you move too stiffly especially if you are doing a form.

You can practice this anytime as much as possible all the time - sitting or just walking around.

 

 

If you are suspended correctly from the crown point it won't result in moving stiffly. Being suspended doesn't mean holding the neck stiffly. It just means developing an energetic connection from the crown point....and the physical structure varies from person to person. The energetic connection is what is most important...

 

 

 

 

[suninmyeyes]

I agree. Perhaps most people hold the neck a bit stiff without even realizing it. (Awareness of this constant neck holding, for me, has been unsettling/unnerving. I'm just trying to let go of my physical holdings as well as the thoughts/feelings I have about this deeper revelation.)

 

Anyone suspend from the occiput? (With relaxed jaw?)

 

Some really good insights in this thread.

Neck is difficult one and most peolple do hold it stiff without realising it. When the stomach really starts to open and feel very pleasent and relaxed neck opens up too in my expirience so far. This is going above emotions and wordliness , different area of being.

It is when neck opens that one starts feeling real bliss/melting.

I do pay attention to medulla oblongata and sort myself out there a lot and watch connection with heart and lower dantian, whilst relaxing my jaw, holding stillness on top of the head . Sounds difficult maybe but it is faster to do than a thought.

 

(edit to add: while relaxing a jaw making sure that back teeth touch each other lightly and are in the right position helps a lot)

Edited March 30, 2012 by suninmyeyes

[suninmyeyes]

 

When lying down during a body scan before a Hanna Somatics session, I noticed, for the first time, a real connection from head to rest of spine. A decidedly different sensation. Can't say I've touched that sensation before.

Rainbow ,yeah the connection from head to the rest of the spine is luminous ,when I found out about it it gave such sense of security and lots of courage.

[mYTHmAKER]

If you are suspended correctly from the crown point it won't result in moving stiffly. Being suspended doesn't mean holding the neck stiffly. It just means developing an energetic connection from the crown point....and the physical structure varies from person to person. The energetic connection is what is most important...

 

Have you tried what I suggested

If not do so and compare and let me know what you think

[joeblast]

All this talk of spine movement made me think of the method of swallowing saliva. Remember crane neck? Utilize that to swallow. After swashing with the tongue, extend the head upwards from baihui, curl the motion upward and forward, coinciding the swallow with the extension, feel as if your esophagus goes straight to the dantien, , subtly roll back to the starting position, dont need to bring the chin all the way to the chest as if one was only doing the crane neck. It gurgles down there if done properly

[spiraltao]

Is this to potentially turn the saliva into jing?

[ChiDragon]

Is this to potentially turn the saliva into jing?

No...!!!

[Sifu ReL]

hours

 

Any comment for legs falling asleep?

 

 

Stretch your LEGS

[joeblast]

Is this to potentially turn the saliva into jing?

I lol'd energy conservation, extraction, transformation. so in some odd esoteric sense, yes, but naturally how well the JQS transmutes is part of the individual's accomplishment in practice. for the most part, dont bother thinking of JQS physically.

[寒月 Hanyue]

i don't suspend from the Bai Hui i find it too stiff.

I was taught to suspend from the V notch right below my neck.

This allows my head to be free and float up.

 

Mythmaker, you make a good point. However, IME this is a misunderstanding of sorts.

 

The head floating up, IS "suspending" from the head.

 

"suspended from" means a sense of connection down the whole length and a 'sense of the throughness of the vertical'. Which it sounds like your getting.

 

There is a misconception though that the lengthened spine maintains the same sense of pull throughout its length.

 

This appears to come from people treating it like a rope and trying to lengthen or stretch it out? As I have been taught:

 

The head, from Dazhui (C7) lifts and floats with bahui having a sensation of being drawn upwards lightly. There is a pivot point, and the front sinks releases downwards through the throat with space behind the notch.

 

The spine from mingmen rises, babei, drawn upwards this is a stronger sensation. This is the expansion of the bones, the tissues will feel as though they melt downwards. The sternum has TWO directions, outside it sinks down, inside is rises up. In effect it hardly moves, NO collapsing of the chest.

 

From mingmen down the spine sinks. This allows the weight of the tailbone to open the spine. There is much more but I'll leave it here. There should be no 'pull' or stiffness, just expansion and floating.

 

There is also a big difference between the relationship of the head lifting and the feet in neigong to martial arts as I have been taught, due to the different emphasis in rooting. This was only cleared up for me recently.

 

The 'pushing' the head up, which can cause stiffness, is a different method used primarily in martial arts to train different things and is a yang approach to developing the spine into a single bow 弓 (gong) from the two it usually is.

 

Best,

[Thunder_Gooch]

My masters told me the most powerful is usually the simplest. Many Qigong exercises are too complicated and cloaked with mystery.

 

It seems to me most people overlook the most basic thing about ALL energy work techniques. None of them work at all without first achieving a deep trance state via meditation. That's the key! And almost everyone everywhere misses it. It's so simple it hurts. Every system talks about this as the first step, but almost no one gets it, why is that?

 

 

If you read the Magus of Java where chang talks about meditation:

 

 

 

“You know how in meditation we slow down our breathing and our pulse? It’s because we move more and more into our yin consciousness.”

 

I will enter total meditation—like the borderline between sleep and waking, okay?

 

That's the state you are trying to achieve, a deep trance state the in between waking and sleeping state.

 

If you can't see with your eyelids closed you aren't deep enough keep going.

 

Energy can't be worked with in any other state. No one gets anywhere with anything because they aren't first in a deep trance state.

 

Every system from Spring Forest Qigong, to Mo Pai and Long Men Pai teach this, but no one seems to get it and it's the most important and fundamental thing upon which all else is built.

 

The saying "Energy Flows Where Attention Goes" is true in a literal sense, You focus your attention like a laser at one spot to heat it up and fill it with energy.

 

Next energy is felt, not visualized. You feel it, you don't visualize it. You won't have to guess if something is happening or not or if you are working with qi or not, you will know you are, or are not.

 

Next you CAN permanently damage your lower dan tein (and end all future development) by working with it if you don't follow precautions. Do not work with it if have ejaculated within a week. Females aren't supposed to work with it during menstruation. Work with the middle dan tein at the solar plexus during these times.

 

Here are some more tips from Chunyi Lin of Spring Forest Qigong:

 

Three Secrets of Practicing Qigong Effectively

 

1) Go into the emptiness

 

Countless different Qigong and meditation exercises exist. All teach the basic idea of using consciousness to go into the emptiness where thoughts ultimately cease or greatly diminish and sensory connections to our bodies fade. We and everything in our world are all from the emptiness and will go back to the emptiness. It is a state of pure energy where we are one with the universe. Our bodies naturally direct us to the emptiness. When we get sick, for example, the first place we go is not to the hospital, but to bed. When we sleep, we feel relaxed and peaceful. We bring our mind and body into the emptiness. Everybody does this automatic meditation without noticing it during sleep and periods of deep relaxation. Most of our daily

energy blockages are opened and resolved in this way The deeper you go into the emptiness, the faster your body will heal. By practicing Qigong we go into the emptiness where we effortlessly balance the Yin and Yang, the female and male energy. As the balance of energy comes back, the body heals.

 

2) Keep it simple

 

My masters told me the most powerful is usually the simplest.

Many Qigong exercises are too complicated and cloaked with mystery. Qigong, in its fundamental form, is very simple. For instance, it is very easy to open energy channels. When you open your fingers, all the energy channels in the hands open. When you move your heels up and down, you open all six energy channels in the feet. It is not necessary to learn complicated movements to open channels and release blocks.

 

3) Use your consciousness

 

When doing Qigong exercise, we use sensation of the body to feel the moving Qi. How we use our mind influences the flow of Qi. Positive thoughts, for example, encourage you to gain back your health and instantaneously direct Qi in optimal ways. Negative thoughts, on the other hand, discourage you from fulfilling your task, block energy, and create sickness. These mental activities as well as prayer and willpower belong to consciousness. Mental power is more powerful than physical power.

 

 

Deep and long breathing has always been vital in all forms of Qigong.

 

 

 

That's the most powerful and most advanced advice I have for you.

 

Best wishes with your practice.

Edited April 2, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[mYTHmAKER]

Mythmaker, you make a good point. However, IME this is a misunderstanding of sorts.

 

The head floating up, IS "suspending" from the head.

 

"suspended from" means a sense of connection down the whole length and a 'sense of the throughness of the vertical'. Which it sounds like your getting.

 

There is a misconception though that the lengthened spine maintains the same sense of pull throughout its length.

 

This appears to come from people treating it like a rope and trying to lengthen or stretch it out? As I have been taught:

 

The head, from Dazhui (C7) lifts and floats with bahui having a sensation of being drawn upwards lightly. There is a pivot point, and the front sinks releases downwards through the throat with space behind the notch.

 

The spine from mingmen rises, babei, drawn upwards this is a stronger sensation. This is the expansion of the bones, the tissues will feel as though they melt downwards. The sternum has TWO directions, outside it sinks down, inside is rises up. In effect it hardly moves, NO collapsing of the chest.

 

From mingmen down the spine sinks. This allows the weight of the tailbone to open the spine. There is much more but I'll leave it here. There should be no 'pull' or stiffness, just expansion and floating.

 

There is also a big difference between the relationship of the head lifting and the feet in neigong to martial arts as I have been taught, due to the different emphasis in rooting. This was only cleared up for me recently.

 

The 'pushing' the head up, which can cause stiffness, is a different method used primarily in martial arts to train different things and is a yang approach to developing the spine into a single bow 弓 (gong) from the two it usually is.

 

Best,

 

Being open and of sound mind and body and at the risk of losing face LOL i revisited the issue. i asked my present teacher, a Chen stylist, and he said to suspend from the top of the head. My old teacher - no longer available told me from the v notch. So I will be suspending from the top from now on. One observation is that i think it is easier when first learning to feel and be able to suspend from the notch rather from the top of the head.

 

"suspended from" means a sense of connection down the whole length and a 'sense of the throughness of the vertical'. Which it sounds like your getting." Yes I am

[GeoBall]

I mean Advanced Energy Techniques would be nice, if this topic had any such thing. How ever it does not, and further more there isn't any proof that there is indeed "Advanced Energy Techniques"

 

If someone wants to prove me wrong, please post a video of you yourself doing a advanced energy technique, with spectators, and scientific equipment to measure and observe what we can from the occurrence. If you can't do this I am sorry.