Normal Breathing vs. Reverse Breathing

[joeblast]

Thanks for your input joeblast. What is your opinion on practicing chigong or neigong after having sex and ejaculating? Do you believe the dantien is in a weakened state and vulnerable to damage if energy cultivation practices are ensued immediately after?

It really depends on what exactly it is you are doing. In general the idea is be natural and do not abuse your resources, but there are practices that require "all of the juice you can muster" for lack of a better descriptor, like in doing true alchemy practices and not just building foundations. People toss around the notions of qigong and neigong so much, unless I have some knowledge of the person and their practices then I cant say specifically. Most references would fall more under building foundations than actual internal alchemy - so to answer the question, if you are really doing taoist alchemy practices then you should already have built up enough of a foundation and cultivated gongfu of internal vision (nei shi gongfu) to enough of an extent that you can relatively accurately feel these things internally and be able to ascertain for oneself the veritable dip in resource. In that vein, if you're asking, then you should be doing foundational practices and not jumping ahead and trying to go straight to the alchemy practices. There's much to learn while doing foundational practices, absolutely nothing wrong with having that be the primary focus of your training for a good while.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'm no expert, but since my tan tien doesn't seem to be "torn" I'm pretty sure the 36 hour thing is not true.

...if it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you know.

 

I'm no expert, but for me I find abdominal breathing more useful for accumulating and storing chi and reverse breathing more useful for directing chi.

 

My current understanding is that reverse breathing squeezes and compresses chi into the dan tein, there are other exercises which continue to fill it and compress it till it literally can hold not one drop more and the thing will bulge out of your abdomen where you can physically see it.

 

If you fill your dan tein to the brim, and continue to pack it full and compress it, it will detonate if weakened by ejaculation if you keep pushing it. This isn't a concern because most people will never get that far, but the warning is absolutely true from my understanding.

 

It is best to work with the middle dan tein at the solar plexus if you cannot go a week without ejaculation.

Edited April 9, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Prince...]

 

Also..does anyone know what type of breathing techniques were used in Liping's Dragon's Gate training?

 

 

It depends on what exercise you're doing. I tell everyone considering studying Master Wang's material to learn to sit and breathe naturally. If you can't do that, you really won't get much out of the other stuff. That bears repeating numerous times on this board for just about every practice worth doing.

 

I assume that you study Southern Preying Mantis? I did Jook Lum for a little while-- there is a lot of reverse breathing for power generation in this style. All the "suck & spit" stuff, developing the mantis body requires reverse breathing. It would make sense to me to practice this every chance I got... when I was doing Southern Mantis, my Qigong, my sitting practice, my standing practice--everything was done using reverse breathing.

 

If you just picked the name for no other reason, then my bad.

[multiarms]

 

If you fill your dan tein to the brim, and continue to pack it full and compress it, it will detonate if weakened by ejaculation if you keep pushing it. This isn't a concern because most people will never get that far, but the warning is absolutely true from my understanding.

 

 

..............

[astralc]

Southern mantis, may I suggest that you listen to Sifu Rel, he is talking from experience. Reverse breathing comes quite naturally once you get used to it, and it takes practice like anything else you want to learn that is of any value. I prefer to use this method to initiate astral travel and OOB, once you learn to do it it opens you up to whats out there.

 

And may I comment on your concerns about your dan tien being torn when practicing after ejeculation, thats cods wollop, you will find that you will do less ejeculating and more orgasming thru dedicated practice of your taoist meditations and Reverse breathing. Its all about practice, do the hard work first and a lot of your concerns will disappear.

 

And if you pack chi into your dan tien too much it will generally leak out before you explode your guts all over the place

Edited April 23, 2012 by astralc

[ChiDragon]

dan tien being torn when practicing after ejaculation,

 

And if you pack chi into your dan tien too much it will generally leak out before you explode your guts all over the place

 

What kind of stuff have you guys been drinking....???...... .... ......

[astralc]

What kind of stuff have you guys been drinking....???...... .... ......

 

ROFL, yeah, thats the best I have ever read, and it beats blowing chi winds out the back end

[Wizz]

Southern mantis, may I suggest that you listen to Sifu Rel, he is talking from experience. Reverse breathing comes quite naturally once you get used to it, and it takes practice like anything else you want to learn that is of any value. I prefer to use this method to initiate astral travel and OOB, once you learn to do it it opens you up to whats out there.

 

And may I comment on your concerns about your dan tien being torn when practicing after ejeculation, thats cods wollop, you will find that you will do less ejeculating and more orgasming thru dedicated practice of your taoist meditations and Reverse breathing. Its all about practice, do the hard work first and a lot of your concerns will disappear.

 

And if you pack chi into your dan tien too much it will generally leak out before you explode your guts all over the place

 

How do you use this method to initiate astral travel could you please explain in more depth? I can do reverse breathing but is there anything else I should know or apply it to like should I focus on root chakra work etc?

[Isimsiz Biri]

I can suggest Reverse Breathing only for martial art applications.

 

For mediatation purposes, normal breathing is advised.

[ChiDragon]

I agreed. That is a general rule anyway. However, I would say that to a Chinese Taoist.

[joeblast]

I didnt find reverse & deep meditation helpful...until I really figured out how do reverse breath and decipher what structures are important - and that didnt happen for me until I got deep enough with natural breathing that I was able to objectively look at what was going on. Every time I see "tighten the abdomen" I facepalm When the breath is integrated well enough that it "externally disappears," then you see right there that the front of the abdomen is not a fundamental breath structure

 

Natural vs reverse, are you lifting the perineum as the diaphragm relaxes, or are you lifting the perineum as the diaphragm contracts? No need to pay attention to the front of the abdomen in the least if it is a meditative implementation.

[Ratatosk]

Reverse breathing is good for moving energy up, and generate more energy from all the organs, especially the kidneys. It's got more of a fire quality to it. Lock your root on the outbreath to prevent it from leaking.

 

Normal breathing is for moving energy down, like in the water path.

[Ratatosk]

Natural vs reverse, are you lifting the perineum as the diaphragm relaxes, or are you lifting the perineum as the diaphragm contracts? No need to pay attention to the front of the abdomen in the least if it is a meditative implementation.

 

If you lift the perineum as you breathe in, and contract the diaphragm/stomach, you create a vacuum in the lower dan tien.

As you relax and exhale this vacuum will fill up, pulling energy up from the perineum/earth/sexual organs.

[joeblast]

If you lift the perineum as you breathe in, and contract the diaphragm/stomach, you create a vacuum in the lower dan tien.

As you relax and exhale this vacuum will fill up, pulling energy up from the perineum/earth/sexual organs.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23060-normal-breathing-vs-reverse-breathing/page__st__32#entry379069

[Taomeow]

Reverse breathing IS normal breathing. What we use and think of as normal breathing is abnormal. We do it defensively because they cut our umbilical cord the moment we are born. It's imprinting. Shallow breathing without moving the abdominal area the natural way (in on the inbreath, just like before birth) becomes the imprint for protecting oneself from trauma and pain because it is what transpires as the very first learning experience: "breathing normally means pain." We breathe the way we do in response to this lesson for the rest of our lives -- imprinting is systemic learning and the developmental window for it taking place is extremely narrow (in dogs it is thirty minutes -- if the mom is prevented from licking the newborn puppies within this period, they die, because they never learn to breathe normally. The licking is the kind of signaling stimulation their species requires to start functioning. The non-cutting of the umbilical cord is the kind ours requires, but we don't die from not getting it, we just get damaged for life.) It also has to do with the natural blood flow that is disrupted when the umbilical cord is cut abruptly and too soon (under original normal human conditions, anywhere from a few hours to a few days was the norm before it was severed, and in many tribes this wasn't practiced at all -- it was supposed to dry up in about a week and fall off by itself.) The change from in-utero blood flow pattern through the umbilical cord to relegating the task to the newborn baby's heart pumping blood is, under normal conditions, gradual -- the unsevered cord pulses still pumping blood for hours after birth. The shock of switching abruptly is another thing that throws off a lot of normal metabolic patterns in our modern kind. This shock is invariably accompanied by oxygen starvation, and breathing abnormally (in the way we think of as our "normal") is also a defense against drawing nothing via normal umbilical breath pattern.

 

A system that does not take the above into consideration is either old enough and intact enough to never having anticipated hospital births and mass/universal abnormal breathing patterns, so when it says "breathe naturally" it means what we call reverse breathing by default; or else is mired in clueless interpretations of what older systems meant when they said "natural breath."

[Isimsiz Biri]

Throughout the years, I found Koichi Tohei's Ki Breath is the most useful for human health and blood/qi circulation. I can recommend it to every body.

 

http://www.shinichitohei.com/english/specialki_breathing/index.html

[ShenLung]

Throughout the years, I found Koichi Tohei's Ki Breath is the most useful for human health and blood/qi circulation. I can recommend it to every body.

 

http://www.shinichit...hing/index.html

 

I've seen several books for sale that contain less usefull information than this site .. good link

[Isimsiz Biri]

I've seen several books for sale that contain less usefull information than this site .. good link

 

Dear Shenlung,

 

I strongly recommend the following three books:

 

1. "Ki in Daily Life" by Koichi Tohei (http://www.amazon.com/Ki-Daily-Life-Koichi-Tohei/dp/4889960716/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355818952&sr=1-1&keywords=ki+in+daily+life)

 

2. "KI: A Practical Guide for Westerners" by William Reed. (http://www.amazon.com/KI-Practical-Westerners-William-Reed/dp/087040640X/ref=la_B000APQX6U_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1355818990&sr=1-2)

 

3. "KI --A Road That Anyone Can Walk" by William Reed (http://www.amazon.com/Road-That-Anyone-Can-Walk/dp/0870407996/ref=la_B000APQX6U_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355818990&sr=1-1)

[Isimsiz Biri]

I copied a very useful passage from (http://www.shinichit...eathing-by.html)

 

 

"Ki Breathing" by Koichi Tohei Sensei (18)&(19)

 

 

 

.....We all have such a magic pot in the one point in the lower abdomen. This is an infinitely small point which can engulf anything.

For example, if someone spreads false rumors about you, you could lose your temper when you tell this to your brain. By throwing it away into your one point, you need not become upset. To repress it would only result in this anger coming out later. This is not good for your health either.

Just throw away everything in your one point and always smile.

If you live this way, even though lightning strikes beside you, you will not be shaken up by the sound and the flash of light. They will be instantly absorbed into the one point and disappear. If you do this, you can enjoy tea even when you have lightning strike near you. You do not have to be shaken up by it.

As one tries to keep his one point in daily life, one should be able to maintain a perpetually relaxed state of mind and body. One will develop a mind which is immovable even when the world around collapses, and a mind which is as vast as the ocean which can engulf everything and remain unpolluted.

People in the world usually believe that relaxation means loss of power. That is why they cannot relax in an emergency. They tense their body instead.

You will realize the importance of relaxation in an emergency for the first time when you realize that relaxation is the most natural and stable state.

Most of modern diseases are caused by nervous problems. Stress, irritations, anger and depression make the fine veins contract and disturb the manifestation of the living power causing various diseases.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Fū Yue]

Thanks for sharing those books and the excerpt Recep, looks good.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, might this trauma any reason why some folks might have some issues, or phobias, about their bellybuttons?

 

Definitely. These issues are not just in the head. I googled "bellybutton sickness" and got 438,000 results. Either without any provocation, or in response to any kind of stress, whether physical or emotional, some people's bellybuttons get sensitive, painful, itchy, oozing, inflamed, infected, herniated, cause fits of nausea when touched, and on and on. The body remembers what the thinking mind does not -- because the body was there when the neocortex wasn't.

[Birch]

" The body remembers what the thinking mind does not "

 

I wanted to underscore this one.

[joeblast]

Thanks TM. Good to know I'm not unique. But, it is sobering to know that these types of early experiences DO leave their imprint.

odd concept to me since mine is fine with just about anything short of sharp objects. a good buddy of mine & wife are having a kid soon, I'll have to hit 'em with this whole concept. tx, tm