Normal Breathing vs. Reverse Breathing

[Southern Mantis]

I'm curious as to what member's thoughts are on reverse breathing vs. normal breathing during Taoist Alchemy practices. I've been practicing a form of Taoist meditation that concentrates specifically on storing chi in the dantien w/out circulation..using only reverse breathing. I feel as if there are quite a few conflicting schools of thought on this particular type of energy cultivation. One being that reverse breathing isn't healthy for you and doesn't accumulate more chi than deep diaphragmatic breathing. The other that believes that it does. I've read more books than I can remember on Taoist Alchemy, qigong, and neigong, and have heard many different theories...some of which conflict w/ each other. Alot of it seems to center around reverse breathing vs. normal breathing and refraining from meditative alchemical practice for 36hrs after ejaculation. I've even heard that you can tear your dan tien if you practice before 36hrs. Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Also..does anyone know what type of breathing techniques were used in Liping's Dragon's Gate training?

 

Thanks!

[Sifu ReL]

I'm curious as to what member's thoughts are on reverse breathing vs. normal breathing during Taoist Alchemy practices. I've been practicing a form of Taoist meditation that concentrates specifically on storing chi in the dantien w/out circulation..using only reverse breathing. I feel as if there are quite a few conflicting schools of thought on this particular type of energy cultivation. One being that reverse breathing isn't healthy for you and doesn't accumulate more chi than deep diaphragmatic breathing. The other that believes that it does. I've read more books than I can remember on Taoist Alchemy, qigong, and neigong, and have heard many different theories...some of which conflict w/ each other. Alot of it seems to center around reverse breathing vs. normal breathing and refraining from meditative alchemical practice for 36hrs after ejaculation. I've even heard that you can tear your dan tien if you practice before 36hrs. Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Also..does anyone know what type of breathing techniques were used in Liping's Dragon's Gate training?

 

Thanks!

 

 

you need to practice reverse breathing for your Yin chi....astral/obe/visions

not too much practice and it has to be a deep chi kung breath. your breath per minute should decrease.

then go back to normal breath to even out your chi...you'll feal the difference.

 

as for any pains...you dont have to wait after ejaculation but its like start from the begining , because it drains your yang chi. and always drink plenty of water before meditating to cool your organs.

[sea-dog]

I'm no expert, but since my tan tien doesn't seem to be "torn" I'm pretty sure the 36 hour thing is not true.

...if it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you know.

 

I'm no expert, but for me I find abdominal breathing more useful for accumulating and storing chi and reverse breathing more useful for directing chi.

[Mokona]

The issue is when talking Chi gathering you have to step into biology. Everyone is made a little different. Reverse breathing vs deep belly breathing is an individual's assignment in practice to find which works best for that particular person.

 

I started learning how to build chi at first by deep Belly+Chest breathing. Learn your body, see what happens. Spend 15 minutes Belly breathing, watch behind your eyelids for what changes, then switch to reverse breathing, watch the effects.

 

EXPERIMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNT! I like the "n" sound the most.

[joeblast]

I'm curious as to what member's thoughts are on reverse breathing vs. normal breathing during Taoist Alchemy practices. I've been practicing a form of Taoist meditation that concentrates specifically on storing chi in the dantien w/out circulation..using only reverse breathing. I feel as if there are quite a few conflicting schools of thought on this particular type of energy cultivation. One being that reverse breathing isn't healthy for you and doesn't accumulate more chi than deep diaphragmatic breathing. The other that believes that it does. I've read more books than I can remember on Taoist Alchemy, qigong, and neigong, and have heard many different theories...some of which conflict w/ each other. Alot of it seems to center around reverse breathing vs. normal breathing and refraining from meditative alchemical practice for 36hrs after ejaculation. I've even heard that you can tear your dan tien if you practice before 36hrs. Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Also..does anyone know what type of breathing techniques were used in Liping's Dragon's Gate training?

 

Thanks!

Not up for retyping everything I put here...at least not right now Read my posts there...I'd even copy 'em and link back over here if I felt so inclined.

 

But in a nutshell, if you do not integrate the psoas motion in well with the diaphragm motion, it becomes too easy to focus on the front of the abdomen during reverse breathing, leading to that "unnatural feeling" that you referenced some people speaking out. (iotw, yes, doing it in an unnatural and incorrect fashion is...unnatural, and incorrect.)

Edited March 27, 2012 by joeblast

[寒月 Hanyue]

I'm curious as to what member's thoughts are on reverse breathing vs. normal breathing during Taoist Alchemy practices. I've been practicing a form of Taoist meditation that concentrates specifically on storing chi in the dantien w/out circulation..using only reverse breathing. I feel as if there are quite a few conflicting schools of thought on this particular type of energy cultivation.

 

Some change how they are physically breathing without really changing anything energetically. Then there is no real difference. Listen not to the body but what is happening energetically and in the dantian, what difference do you feel?

 

That should tell you a lot.

 

Best,

[findley]

dont believe anything you ever read in wang lipings 'biography'.

 

do this: read the Dao De Jing, and then cmopare the wisdom of Lao Tzu with the lipings 'masters'

 

yeah big difference isnt there?

 

You know, in my experience, a deep breath is a deep breath. Also, I think controlling your breathing is counter-productive-- the breath isnt meant to be controlled. if it becomes deep, it is as a -side effect- and not because you made it happen. If you control it, its not natural.

 

read the Secret of the Golden Flower for its comment on it. it says DON'T control your breathing.

 

I dont think the 'dan tien' is real either. dont worry about it.

 

I think sifu Rel is delusional.

 

in my experience the only real development you can hope for, lies in building up your electromagnetic field via qigong practice. like embracing the tree.

 

experiment with embracing the tree (dont make the practice sucky and painful, put your arms down when you are tired,) for several hours every day. that is the only thing that is going to bring you real benefit. not any of these primitive daoist mystical lies about breathing and dan tiens and whatever.

 

....trust me.

[Mokona]

Actually, after following KAP I can feel that area.

 

dont believe anything you ever read in wang lipings 'biography'.

 

do this: read the Dao De Jing, and then cmopare the wisdom of Lao Tzu with the lipings 'masters'

 

yeah big difference isnt there?

 

You know, in my experience, a deep breath is a deep breath. Also, I think controlling your breathing is counter-productive-- the breath isnt meant to be controlled. if it becomes deep, it is as a -side effect- and not because you made it happen. If you control it, its not natural.

 

read the Secret of the Golden Flower for its comment on it. it says DON'T control your breathing.

 

I dont think the 'dan tien' is real either. dont worry about it.

 

I think sifu Rel is delusional.

 

in my experience the only real development you can hope for, lies in building up your electromagnetic field via qigong practice. like embracing the tree.

 

experiment with embracing the tree (dont make the practice sucky and painful, put your arms down when you are tired,) for several hours every day. that is the only thing that is going to bring you real benefit. not any of these primitive daoist mystical lies about breathing and dan tiens and whatever.

 

....trust me.

[Aetherous]

....trust me.

 

Why would I ever put trust in a lack of experience?

[dwai]

I'm curious as to what member's thoughts are on reverse breathing vs. normal breathing during Taoist Alchemy practices. I've been practicing a form of Taoist meditation that concentrates specifically on storing chi in the dantien w/out circulation..using only reverse breathing. I feel as if there are quite a few conflicting schools of thought on this particular type of energy cultivation. One being that reverse breathing isn't healthy for you and doesn't accumulate more chi than deep diaphragmatic breathing. The other that believes that it does. I've read more books than I can remember on Taoist Alchemy, qigong, and neigong, and have heard many different theories...some of which conflict w/ each other. Alot of it seems to center around reverse breathing vs. normal breathing and refraining from meditative alchemical practice for 36hrs after ejaculation. I've even heard that you can tear your dan tien if you practice before 36hrs. Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Also..does anyone know what type of breathing techniques were used in Liping's Dragon's Gate training?

 

Thanks!

What my teacher has told me about rb is that it generates heat in the ldt. so it is not normal to do it all the time. There are certain types of meditation where we do rb...but we rb into the entire length of the spine simultaneously...

 

And the dt are real...they spin and move around....they dont stay locked in a particular location...but in a general area. And no you wont rip the dt if you rb. Your meridians might go out of whack if you generate too much heat and dont know what to do with that however...imho.

[joeblast]

A deep breath isnt just a deep breath, and there are a great many benefits - energetic optimization by regulating structures so that minimal consumption and maximal production is achieved. Minute+ long breaths arent "natural"? Sure not unless you train it, and when you train it, you discover...you experience the ton of extra energy you find out you have when you're not constantly manifesting with it.

 

Good point on the additional energy dwai - integrate in supreme utter stillness.

[Sifu ReL]

FROM A TRUE SIFU.

 

 

 

this years in experience thing makes no sense in logic.

other then the fact that if it take you 10 years to feel and direct your chi then you were doing it wrong for 9 years.

babys are born belly breathers and its only when they get scared as they get older do they start chest breathing.

so everyones born with this gift but the modern world made chest breathers ignorant.

i guess in the womb , all we had was our inner self becuase there didnt exist anything else.

if you understand your body and know yourself, you can learn to direct (Yin..outward breath/ reverse breath/ KYO ,Navel chakra) and (Yang...Inward breath/normal breath/ Rin /Base chakra & Peniglan ) . and to also connect your yin & yang for your CHI/ inner Energy.

 

The amount of people playing the guessing game when no sense of them self is pointless so ill spill the beans to who ever wants to learn. just contact me.

 

you ppl with inexperience put doubt on the hearts of those who need to learn this for there own sake.

 

P.S. if you think yang is push and yin is pull your wrong. yin is white dot, yang is black dot on the symbol.

[Sifu ReL]

dont believe anything you ever read in wang lipings 'biography'.

 

do this: read the Dao De Jing, and then cmopare the wisdom of Lao Tzu with the lipings 'masters'

 

yeah big difference isnt there?

 

You know, in my experience, a deep breath is a deep breath. Also, I think controlling your breathing is counter-productive-- the breath isnt meant to be controlled. if it becomes deep, it is as a -side effect- and not because you made it happen. If you control it, its not natural.

 

read the Secret of the Golden Flower for its comment on it. it says DON'T control your breathing.

 

I dont think the 'dan tien' is real either. dont worry about it.

 

I think sifu Rel is delusional.

 

in my experience the only real development you can hope for, lies in building up your electromagnetic field via qigong practice. like embracing the tree.

 

experiment with embracing the tree (dont make the practice sucky and painful, put your arms down when you are tired,) for several hours every day. that is the only thing that is going to bring you real benefit. not any of these primitive daoist mystical lies about breathing and dan tiens and whatever.

 

....trust me.

 

you have no experience yourself, you sound like someones misguided student when you talk. you can tree hug all you want, but its not going to help you in life or death. the thing i speak aint just teachings of daoist sages, its teachings of human life passed down from generation till ppl like you (tree huggers) turn it into something ppl turn away from.

 

QiGONG means energy work....and you said put your arm down when your tired of hugging a tree??

 

and when you give ppl advice you dont tell them to go read someones else book. cuz then it seems like you didnt even read the book.

and as for the words dan tian navel chi energy ....there all just human words use to discribe areas or presence.... to say you dont believe in the area below you bellybutton makes you really trust worthy.

 

ITS A GOOD THING YOU LACK EXPERIENCE BREATHING!

[Sifu ReL]

I'm no expert, but since my tan tien doesn't seem to be "torn" I'm pretty sure the 36 hour thing is not true.

...if it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you know.

 

I'm no expert, but for me I find abdominal breathing more useful for accumulating and storing chi and reverse breathing more useful for directing chi.

 

 

RIGHT!

[thelerner]

What technique do you use for reverse breath? As I recall the healing tao method was pretty literal, the stomach sucks in as you breath in. On meditations I have from Master Chen at Wudangtao he has a simpler method. He just has you tighten the anus a bit and get a feeling of the universe rushing into the dantien. Little or no emphasis on sucking in the stomach. Ofcourse this might not be his full on reverse breathing, but just the breath style he wants for this particular meditation.

[Sifu ReL]

What technique do you use for reverse breath? As I recall the healing tao method was pretty literal, the stomach sucks in as you breath in. On meditations I have from Master Chen at Wudangtao he has a simpler method. He just has you tighten the anus a bit and get a feeling of the universe rushing into the dantien. Little or no emphasis on sucking in the stomach. Ofcourse this might not be his full on reverse breathing, but just the breath style he wants for this particular meditation.

 

 

here's the formula to answer your question.

 

build chi>>>Tighten the anus>>>while holding anus>>>Reverse breath with a straight back. and push you stomach out while breathing out.

 

Technique - ?name? idk

 

but the effect of the technique is of course you controling your chi.

i use this technique to SHOCK PPL. acuppressure ect....

[joeblast]

What technique do you use for reverse breath? As I recall the healing tao method was pretty literal, the stomach sucks in as you breath in. On meditations I have from Master Chen at Wudangtao he has a simpler method. He just has you tighten the anus a bit and get a feeling of the universe rushing into the dantien. Little or no emphasis on sucking in the stomach. Ofcourse this might not be his full on reverse breathing, but just the breath style he wants for this particular meditation.

Wise words from Master Chen. That's one point I was trying to make in the reverse breathing thread - any misconceptions of it being dangerous are from a misinterpreted focus on the front of the abdomen. Need to keep the focus on the important part - psoas-diaphragm-perineum.

 

I like dwai's relating of the entire spine to it, probably for that reason, though my own interpretation was superiorly, because I've already focused inferiorly - teh psoas

[ChiDragon]

What is the purpose of RB...???

Can it be performed by any individual at any time...???

[Southern Mantis]

Thank you all for your feedback. It sounds to me like experimentation w/ several breathing styles may be conducive to achieving specific goals, depending on the individual. I'm starting to fair closer to learning how to develop a deep intuitive understanding of energy work in regards to me as an individual, as opposed to a rigid structured discipline for the masses.

 

I do believe that some things are universal, such as deep, slow, controlled belly breathing for energy cultivation and mind regulation...not to mention the benefit of daily practice. The more the better...within reason. My dilemma is my conditioned desire for a structured, well-versed, historical practice that I can use for an extended period of time, as opposed to just "wingin it". I've done Mantak Chia's stuff and wasn't a big fan. I've tried Mo Pai and...although I do believe it's very powerful, I feel it's not very multi-dimentional in it's benefits and calls for quite a bit of self-deprivation in the sexual activity department. Not very conducive for a man in search of a woman.

[Sifu ReL]

What is the purpose of RB...???

Can it be performed by any individual at any time...???

 

its not eh Reverse breath itself , its how you use it.

 

there are many...

one is to use both yin & yang chi

and another is to mold and condense chi.

or to even out your own chi.

[ChiDragon]

its not eh Reverse breath itself , its how you use it.

 

there are many...

one is to use both yin & yang chi

and another is to mold and condense chi.

or to even out your own chi.

 

Would you please put this in an comprehensible language....??? Thanks...

[Sifu ReL]

Would you please put this in an comprehensible language....??? Thanks...

 

 

in Lamens term: Normal Breath = pulling in energy....Reverse Breath = pushing out.

 

BUT YOU CANT DO THIS INLESS YOU HAVE TO CORRECT FORMULA TO MANIFEST YOUR ENERGY

[joeblast]

Thank you all for your feedback. It sounds to me like experimentation w/ several breathing styles may be conducive to achieving specific goals, depending on the individual. I'm starting to fair closer to learning how to develop a deep intuitive understanding of energy work in regards to me as an individual, as opposed to a rigid structured discipline for the masses.

 

I do believe that some things are universal, such as deep, slow, controlled belly breathing for energy cultivation and mind regulation...not to mention the benefit of daily practice. The more the better...within reason. My dilemma is my conditioned desire for a structured, well-versed, historical practice that I can use for an extended period of time, as opposed to just "wingin it". I've done Mantak Chia's stuff and wasn't a big fan. I've tried Mo Pai and...although I do believe it's very powerful, I feel it's not very multi-dimentional in it's benefits and calls for quite a bit of self-deprivation in the sexual activity department. Not very conducive for a man in search of a woman.

Some of us are able to go study with masters regularly...some of us, a few times...others, none. What exactly is it you're looking for? Let go of any notions of a schedule and let yourself be free to improve and evolve as you will. You wont do it any faster than that, really. Sometimes you will get points of confirmation on the path, but honestly most of the path is through benign woods that have no trail markers. So long as you've paid attention to past markers, take the tips of those you encounter along the way...dont be afraid to let the burden of obtaining accomplishment be yours.

 

Wrt the subtitle, which generates more power - looking at the yin and yang dynamics of the physical structures, you find natural breathing having a good balance of yin & yang - very stable, calming, harmonic; looking at reverse you see it differently, all yang inhale, all yin exhale. It allows for higher amplitudes.

 

It was funny, I was typing for a few here last night and J came down here and after a minute commented about the litter box smelling, I didnt even know I wasnt using my sinuses and I didnt smell it. Then I opened my sinuses and pow! Good god kitties, what you been eating!

[Southern Mantis]

Thanks for your input joeblast. What is your opinion on practicing chigong or neigong after having sex and ejaculating? Do you believe the dantien is in a weakened state and vulnerable to damage if energy cultivation practices are ensued immediately after?

[Chen]

Thanks for your input joeblast. What is your opinion on practicing chigong or neigong after having sex and ejaculating? Do you believe the dantien is in a weakened state and vulnerable to damage if energy cultivation practices are ensued immediately after?

Southern Mantis

Storing energy in Dan Tien as you mentioned a la Mo pai,and having sex or ejaculating has nothing to do with "tearing" the Dan Tien.. The 72 hours has to do with level 2 and not the preliminary stage of level one.although I am familiar with one case of a practinare that was peing blood because he was practicing reverse breathing with tension if you are practicing correct the exercise there is no fear.

From your previous posts I understood that you are mixing training.it's not for me to say but as a friendly advice mixing " mo pai " tehnics with others it doesn't sound good to me.

Not that I want to create a scary atmosphere ,but some systems are not compatible with the mo pai technics.

Both embryonic and reverse breathing are accepted in meditation but it's up to school that you are following.