Had a profound! one-consciousness-like experience with ayahuasca

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yeah, for some reason I didn't form thoughts like that. I simply tried to handle the fear. But to some degree I entered the experiences with questions and aims, but didn't get any message. The only communication were the visions with the frightening implications. I guess at that point I was too scared to form questions.

 

I do remember one account of an aya experience I read some time ago... these two forces... one of light and one of dark... the dark was trying to "get them" bring them down etc into their world? the light side was telling her not to give into fear etc and to rise with them

 

easier said then done I guess

 

are these things you? aspects of... of subconscious thought forms?

 

I have had one experience where I became quite in touch with my thoughts and the effects... in terms of negative thoughts... i was like binding myself with razor wire tighter and tighter... constricting myself

[eye_of_the_storm]

@ Owledge

 

I have found a strange passage:

 

They became troubled because Adam had recovered from all the trials. They assembled and laid plans, and they said, "Behold Adam! He has come to be like one of us, so that he knows the difference between the light and the darkness. Now perhaps he will be deceived, as in the case of the Tree of Knowledge, and also will come to the Tree of Life and eat from it, and become immortal, and become lord, and despise us and disdain us and all our glory! Then he will denounce us along with our universe. Come, let us expel him from Paradise, down to the land from which he was taken, so that henceforth he might not be able to recognize anything better than we can." And so they expelled Adam from Paradise, along with his wife. And this deed that they had done was not enough for them. Rather, they were afraid.

They went in to the Tree of Life and surrounded it with great fearful things, fiery living creatures called "Cheroubin", and they put a flaming sword in their midst, fearfully twirling at all times, so that no earthly being might ever enter that place.

 

The Tree of Life? hmm

Edited May 3, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Protector]

Nothing strange, this is one of the mentions of chakras in the bible

[Rishi Das]

Thanks for posting this Owledge, sounds like a great experience!

 

And do you think if I had managed to totally give in to the oneness experience and not freak out, I might have transcended suffering and become an enlightened being like the buddha? Was it even an option? I don't know. But maybe I had a choice between strengthening my affirmation of life or my transcendence of life and chose the former one. Which in a way probably was what I wanted in the first place. I am not ready to transcend it, I want to dive into it.

 

I really enjoyed this part, brings me back to that time I ate one to many mushrooms. There definitely comes that point of transcendence, whether or not it would really happen is neither here nor there, regardless the feelings and thoughts at the time allow it to crystallize in the mind as being quite real. While it really doesn't matter, and I really don't know, I have always pondered that that might be what the last big push is like, the final leap into the abyss, truly letting go and letting god; one would need to be in a state of pure open surrender to the fact that what will be will be, which would be followed by that final destruction of mind, nirvikalpa samadhi and the end of maya, enlightenment.

 

Every time I have gotten to that point I refuse to surrender, everything tenses, the fear runs deeper than deep, and my ability to say yes completely vanishes. To me, spiritual practice truly is a way to open up, to understand the concept of surrender and truly bring yourself to a point where you can say yes to everything that arises; to really sit in those places that scare you most.

 

Either way we are where we are so I think that last sentence really shows a lot of courage on your part; absolute acceptance on where you stand which is something I truly admire. I'd be interested to hear an update on your thoughts/feelings about this in a couple months (provided you don't use again for awhile); each time experiences like that have lead me to that state of "diving into life," after awhile however, that pull for freedom always returns.

 

 

Another profound thing I am trying to wrap my head around: Couldn't it be that the oneness was the illusion and the normal reality the more profound state? That all the time, it was my mind playing with itself in self-importance and showing me how if the mind doesn't let the heart steer the ship, it would end up in madness?

 

I also really enjoyed this piece and see it as having a strong connection with your thoughts above. When one truly surrenders to the heart space does the mind totally vanish, does wu wei then take over, does the end of illusion fade altogether and the abidance in pure emptiness, absolute stillness remain?

 

Well i'm done rambling, because in reality I don't really know so it's just a bunch of mind chatter. That being said it's always fun to have the conversation and ponder over what could be. Anyways I really enjoyed the post and appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with everyone!

 

EDIT: Just realized that this post is kind of old!

Edited May 3, 2012 by don_vedo

[Owledge]

Thank you for your contribution, Don Vedo. I am hesitant to write extensively on this now, since it glosses things over with intellectualism. But judging from certain unmistakeable signs I received, I have to assume that this huge fear-barrier is just sending out bullshit in order to preserve itself. (If not, then it would mean that I was confronted with some extremely worrying truths about reality that would make anybody sick in their guts for all eternity.) I'm quite sure now that crossing that barrier will only leave me better off and will not remove any part of me that I might miss, that goes against those aims in my life that I know are 'good'. Or maybe not, haha. Maybe what happened is exactly what I wanted to happen. - Anyways, I had a vague feeling that what that frightening threshold is related to is a huge blockage in the area of my lower dan tien. Too big of a chunk to be relased in one piece. Almost felt like some kind of anchoring to normal reality, but as I said, at the same time there was a very vague suspicion that this is just a defense of a deep fear, and that was in parts because it felt as if my head needed work in order to release that. As if there is a program in my mind that creates that blockage in the abdomen. (Could be self-preservation itself though. I guess if the ayahuasca spirit senses that there's an opening for 'complete awakening', it won't see any reason to consider that undesirable.)

 

Ah... you see... still no idea. It is a tiny bit frustrating that I couldn't find anybody to talk to who has passed that kind of barrier.

 

I had four psychedelic ayahuasca experiences now, and I touched that or a similar barrier each time and shied away. I would have preferred either a much more fierce approach that doesn't leave me a choice or a more gentle one that enables me to get used to the feeling and slowly erode the fear.

Nevertheless, all experiences were helpful, healing. The ayahuasca spirit surely is a wise one (if not ultimately wise) and when you think you failed, you have no idea. It feels as if ayahuasca's wise circumventing of control issues is already a kind of healing. I experienced that if I tried to prepare for breaking that barrier in order to be more successful next time, that, too, is a control issue of the mind and ayahuasca sent me in another direction towards the same target, and again I was relatively unprepared and freaked out.

I will heed the advice of one of my teachers and try not to be greedy.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Owledge

[Rishi Das]

Well said.

 

I will heed the advice of one of my teachers and try not to be greedy.

 

And good advice!

[eye_of_the_storm]

Nothing strange, this is one of the mentions of chakras in the bible

 

The strange part is kind of missed because the text is long and Ive only given a small portion - but basically a dark group / jealous, hateful beings wanted to keep Man in slavery and ignorance of his divinity + ultimate freedom so placed at the Tree of Knowledge an elaborate illusion? to scare him away from attaining THAT.

 

perhaps what Owledge may be describing this fear barrier thing?

 

maybe I am taking things too literally?

Edited May 4, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[hagar]

Thank you for your contribution, Don Vedo. I am hesitant to write extensively on this now, since it glosses things over with intellectualism. But judging from certain unmistakeable signs I received, I have to assume that this huge fear-barrier is just sending out bullshit in order to preserve itself. (If not, then it would mean that I was confronted with some extremely worrying truths about reality that would make anybody sick in their guts for all eternity.) I'm quite sure now that crossing that barrier will only leave me better off and will not remove any part of me that I might miss, that goes against those aims in my life that I know are 'good'. Or maybe not, haha. Maybe what happened is exactly what I wanted to happen. - Anyways, I had a vague feeling that what that frightening threshold is related to is a huge blockage in the area of my lower dan tien. Too big of a chunk to be relased in one piece. Almost felt like some kind of anchoring to normal reality, but as I said, at the same time there was a very vague suspicion that this is just a defense of a deep fear, and that was in parts because it felt as if my head needed work in order to release that. As if there is a program in my mind that creates that blockage in the abdomen. (Could be self-preservation itself though. I guess if the ayahuasca spirit senses that there's an opening for 'complete awakening', it won't see any reason to consider that undesirable.)

 

Ah... you see... still no idea. It is a tiny bit frustrating that I couldn't find anybody to talk to who has passed that kind of barrier.

 

I had four psychedelic ayahuasca experiences now, and I touched that or a similar barrier each time and shied away. I would have preferred either a much more fierce approach that doesn't leave me a choice or a more gentle one that enables me to get used to the feeling and slowly erode the fear.

Nevertheless, all experiences were helpful, healing. The ayahuasca spirit surely is a wise one (if not ultimately wise) and when you think you failed, you have no idea. It feels as if ayahuasca's wise circumventing of control issues is already a kind of healing. I experienced that if I tried to prepare for breaking that barrier in order to be more successful next time, that, too, is a control issue of the mind and ayahuasca sent me in another direction towards the same target, and again I was relatively unprepared and freaked out.

I will heed the advice of one of my teachers and try not to be greedy.

 

Listen to something that probbly is very close to your case of experiencing a blockage or barrier, with our without a substance inducing the experience.

 

I've had some similar experiences as you, and these issues of precieved "blocks" and making sense of the inability to pass them is actually a profound teaching. My experience was not involving any drugs or external stimuli. Yet there may be some overlap to what you describe about how to make sense of it in retrosepct.

 

The experience was induced in a healing session in a five animals retreat, connecting to the spirit of the animal. It was shamanistic in nature, yet not a psychedelic experience. It was induced by opening to the chi. Instead of making me "empowered", it shattered me, making me ill, nauseous, and pretty much breaking down. I lied on the floor unable to get up.

 

The second session was completely different, involving tuning into a special talisman that he asked us to respond to.The following hour involved visions, uncontrollable bodily reactions and auditory and sensory hallucinations. From my conventional mind it shattered my entire concept of the world.

It felt life changing, yet in hindsight, I held onto the experience. It was only an experience. I still walked around thinking that this was happening "to me".

 

For me the significance of the experience was this: The process doesn't care what sense you make of it, or lack there of. What the personal you is able to recieve or deem problematic has nothing to do with what is actually unfolding. There is only a percieved problem, and blockages does only exist in reference to a personal "you", wich is always experienced in retrospect. Its a simplistic comment, yet it's honing in to the important issue: Stop focusing the experience as something to make sense of. It only refers to something not making sense, i.e that there is a belief or hope that the ego can utilize the insights into its framework. It does not work.

 

No worry, tough. The healing takes place with or without your consent.

 

I tried to convey my earth-shattering experience to my teacher, desperately wanting him to help me make sense of them, since they were so unique and magical. His reply was dissappointing, yet probably the greatest teaching I've recieved so far. Answering my prolonged and flaming account he said; "It's quite normal".

 

h

Edited May 4, 2012 by hagar

[manitou]

The following was basically a struggle to not lose my mind. (Maybe that's a very accurate way of saying it, but I have no idea until I can examine several viewpoints on the experience.) In the brief moments of 'reality' I'd think: "If I give into it, I will go insane. I will never come back to experiencing reality with a sane mind."

 

 

My guess is that you're pretty familiry with Carlos Castaneda. Don Juan Mateus would say that a shaman truly struggles with his sanity. Those of us with these tendencies truly struggle to stay in the layer between one reality and the other. How to get through the day with one foot in one 'reality', the other in another 'reality?' Obviously this makes for no 'reality' at all.....

[Owledge]

@hagar

Thank you so much! That video describes, explains and clarifies the barrier I experienced, and I remember very well now how I have been shown that message. I kept making myself miserable, and ayahuasca allowed it. I could vomit on command. Whenever I believed that there is something I have to purge, there would be, and I felt miserable. And that repetition and misery wore down my defenses, my mind's will, and I became sick of feeling sick and gave up the empowering of the problem-perception. Now I practice not giving energy to that mindset.

[hagar]

@hagar

Thank you so much! That video describes, explains and clarifies the barrier I experienced, and I remember very well now how I have been shown that message. I kept making myself miserable, and ayahuasca allowed it. I could vomit on command. Whenever I believed that there is something I have to purge, there would be, and I felt miserable. And that repetition and misery wore down my defenses, my mind's will, and I became sick of feeling sick and gave up the empowering of the problem-perception. Now I practice not giving energy to that mindset.

 

Great! Enjoyed your post alot. Funny, but I've been stumbling over many videos on Ayahuasca experiences lately, before I read your report.

We all make ourselves miserable btw! Who else? There is no good or bad outside your thougths.

My own biggest "aha" was when I realized that instead of trying to modify and manipulate my experience, the juice is in stopping and letting everything emerge by itself. This included all my misery and strategies...

Trying to bypass that will keep you in a holding pattern for decades.

That is when one starts to "reek" of Daoism and "stink" of Buddhism. )

 

h

[Owledge]

@hagar

One thing I wanted to add: In the Adyashanti video, did you notice the eerie moments of silence? (e.g. around 4:30-4:50 and 9:50-10:10) To me it feels eerie, because that's when the whole mind process suddenly stops. It is as if at that moment the realization is lived that the 'message' can not be captured intellectually, but only felt once the mind is silent. Almost like being in another zone. And that's also the crucial difference between the mind stilling itself and being stilled without having any choice about it.

During my more recent ayahuasca experiences, I had the state where I couldn't finish thoughts or answer questions. I hit a brick wall, talking seemed very complicated, and that might have been the helpful process of stopping the intellect from working, to give me a break.

 

Best quote from the video:

"Every once in a while sometimes that isn't there, and then .... ah .... *sigh*"

Edited May 6, 2012 by Owledge

[Owledge]

I feel compelled to spontaneously add this comment:

It is curious how despite the fact that usually one forgets a lot about a DMT/ayahuasca experience, when I am watching videos or pictures about the matter and wrapping my thoughts around it, bit by bit memories and feelings of the trips are coming back.

Just now I remembered how during the first major trip, I was connected to/united with reality, how it felt as if my whole body was wired into the fabric of reality. I also remembered the feeling of how my breath would speed up and slow down the process of reality-manifestation, as if everything that happened originated from my intention and was manifested through my breathing. I remember how I was made omnipotent in that way and how I couldn't handle that, because it made any kind of purpose void; my mind needed a purpose. I remember how I would close my eyes then in order to separate myself from that experience, but that would cause even my body to stop being a body and I would become 'all that'. As if my closing my eyes was connected to the idea of stopping what I see from happening - which was what happened in a way, because of my omnipotence. And I think that was where I saw that dreamer-buddha that freaked me out most. I was trying to escape from omnipotence and stumbled into the eternal void, so to speak.

I suppose you can see why an experience like that has a massive life-embracing effect on the mind.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Owledge

[Owledge]

Also, during that state of mind or being, there is no onjective truth, for all 'truth' is merely ideas manifest and defined to be true. (I remember one somewhat more distinct moment where even some profound buddhist wisdoms about the nature of the universe felt like merely 'added for flavor', since there is no universe to begin with.) Even the 'source' of every idea I perceived was there because I wanted everything that happens to stop, or to escape from that realm, that layer of manifestation of consciousness. That feeling of being trapped in eternity, I think that had to do with the perception that I was looking for the root, the core, the origin, but I was walking in circles. I couldn't really find it, because there was none.

Maybe this is still a limited perception, and I don't remember stuff that clearly, but the most troubling state for me was that there was no reference point. Everything of reality was relative to everything else, without any fixed point. Moving away from something would at the same time bring me closer to it.

 

Think about those fractal pictures where you zoom in and everything is made of the same form that those forms form. But now try to imagine how it feels with DMT: there is no number of forms. The forms that seem to create the shape of that bigger form are that same form. See a snow flake with four points, and each point consisting of that snowflake shape? They are all the same shape. And when you realize that, you realize that then there cannot even be one shape. They are all no shape at all. The very idea of a shape requires separation, a space in which it can exist. Without that space, there can be no shape.

Sorry, impossible to describe. If you had an experience like that, you probably couldn't even come up with appropriate curse words for your feelings. You'd end up with silence as the infinitely powerful ultimate curse word.

 

I'm kinda excited in anticipation of how much more I might remember that I have forgotten. There's really no telling. There might be no limit to what I could 'remember', if I really had been shown everything.

Haha, try to wrap your head around that.

It also feels as if my character development, the amount of fears I have, determins how much I am allowed to remember, for I will only remember stuff that my current state of mind can handle.

 

Sometimes at night, when I'm in bed, merely focusing on my third eye + crown chakra gives me an eerie feeling and then I try to focus on the lower dan tien to feel comfortable again. It's a bit like being torn between fear and curiosity/playfulness.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Owledge

[eye_of_the_storm]

Also, during that state of mind or being, there is no onjective truth, for all 'truth' is merely ideas manifest and defined to be true. (I remember one somewhat more distinct moment where even some profound buddhist wisdoms about the nature of the universe felt like merely 'added for flavor', since there is no universe to begin with.) Even the 'source' of every idea I perceived was there because I wanted everything that happens to stop, or to escape from that realm, that layer of manifestation of consciousness. That feeling of being trapped in eternity, I think that had to do with the perception that I was looking for the root, the core, the origin, but I was walking in circles. I couldn't really find it, because there was none.

Maybe this is still a limited perception, and I don't remember stuff that clearly, but the most troubling state for me was that there was no reference point. Everything of reality was relative to everything else, without any fixed point. Moving away from something would at the same time bring me closer to it.

 

Think about those fractal pictures where you zomm in and everything is made of the same form that those forms form. But now try to imagine how it feels with DMT: there is no number of forms. The forms that seem to create the shape of that bigger form are that same form. See a snow flake with four points, and each point consisting of that snowflake shape? They are all the same shape. And when you realize that, you realize that then there cannot even be one shape. They are all no shape at all. The very idea of a shape requires separation, a space in which it can exist. Without that space, there can be no shape.

Sorry, impossible to describe. If you had an experience like that, you probably couldn't even come up with appropriate curse words for your feelings. You'd end up with silence as the infinitely powerful ultimate curse word.

 

I'm kinda excited in anticipation of how much more I might remember that I have forgotten. There's really no telling. There might be no limit to what I could 'remember', if I really had been shown everything.

Haha, try to wrap your head around that.

It also feels as if my character development, the amount of fears I have, determins how much I am allowed to remember, for I will only remember stuff that my current state of mind can handle.

 

Sometimes at night, when I'm in bed, merely focusing on my third eye + crown chakra gives me an eerie feeling and then I try to focus on the lower dan tien to feel comfortable again. It's a bit like being torn between fear and curiosity/playfulness.

 

 

coool kinda exciting really - the center of the universe is everywhere?

[hagar]

@hagar

One thing I wanted to add: In the Adyashanti video, did you notice the eerie moments of silence? (e.g. around 4:30-4:50 and 9:50-10:10) To me it feels eerie, because that's when the whole mind process suddenly stops. It is as if at that moment the realization is lived that the 'message' can not be captured intellectually, but only felt once the mind is silent. Almost like being in another zone. And that's also the crucial difference between the mind stilling itself and being stilled without having any choice about it.

During my more recent ayahuasca experiences, I had the state where I couldn't finish thoughts or answer questions. I hit a brick wall, talking seemed very complicated, and that might have been the helpful process of stopping the intellect from working, to give me a break.

 

Best quote from the video:

"Every once in a while sometimes that isn't there, and then .... ah .... *sigh*"

 

I understand what you are getting at regarding the Adya clip. The silence, from my experienc, always comes or emerges when the thinking mind is silenced by three situations. My experience is that they have their own inner quality, and energy, yet they are conceptual. The man in the clip experienced at least two of them.

These discursive situations are paradox, contradiction and tautology (a circle is round, a stopping is standing still etc). Theses occurences seem to chase us out into the "big mind", or true nature. Most egos don't like that so they freak out =) or the thinking mind relaxes. And this is experienced as silence. The mind stilling itself is mostly the mind realizing the futility of finding solace in the solution to something outside of itself. The forceful stopping, in my experience, is the mind exhausting itself, or failing. But I don't know about how this works with DMT.

 

My own experiences regarding these stoppings were induced by the energy and presence of the master. Stepping into the chi field, the mind stops from the inside out. The energy body is nourished, and a sense of seeking or wanting stops. Often, in Q and A sessions, we "share" and some ask questions. Before such sessions, I have many questions, yet I forget them when I step into this field. I lose my ability to speak. But strangely, sometimes something else takes over, and the energy compells me to speak. In the beginning, the transmission forced my mind into drowsiness, so that the energy could get through. Now I just sit, yet my mind stops working. The great task is to realize this stopping outside the field of the teacher or a plant medicine.

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

h

[hagar]

I feel compelled to spontaneously add this comment:

It is curious how despite the fact that usually one forgets a lot about a DMT/ayahuasca experience, when I am watching videos or pictures about the matter and wrapping my thoughts around it, bit by bit memories and feelings of the trips are coming back.

Just now I remembered how during the first major trip, I was connected to/united with reality, how it felt as if my whole body was wired into the fabric of reality. I also remembered the feeling of how my breath would speed up and slow down the process of reality-manifestation, as if everything that happened originated from my intention and was manifested through my breathing. I remember how I was made omnipotent in that way and how I couldn't handle that, because it made any kind of purpose void; my mind needed a purpose. I remember how I would close my eyes then in order to separate myself from that experience, but that would cause even my body to stop being a body and I would become 'all that'. As if my closing my eyes was connected to the idea of stopping what I see from happening - which was what happened in a way, because of my omnipotence. And I think that was where I saw that dreamer-buddha that freaked me out most. I was trying to escape from omnipotence and stumbled into the eternal void, so to speak.

I suppose you can see why an experience like that has a massive life-embracing effect on the mind.

 

Thank you for sharing. Fascinating stuff. I can totally understand how that would have a radical effect on your mind and how life is experienced! I've beem watching a few documentaries on Ayahuasca ceremonies now, and it seems like most of what you describe is very common. The voidness is what freaks most people out. Even more than the monsters and demons. So it's as if we are most afraid of ourselves, or our innermost nature. Adyashanty says this is like "treading water on the void". I like his take on that alot.

 

In my own experience, most of the great "trips" as you say, are forgotten, yet is remembered if some energetic component which was present during the experience is triggered again. I held on to my visions and experiences for a long time, thinking that they were the pinnacle of my practice. One time I felt an entire mountain transmitted it's "heart" into mine. It knocked me to the ground. Another time, I had a vision with my eyes open of ascending the same mountain again and again endlessly. It was as a vivid awake dream. Another time I opened my eyes in a meditation with my teacher and my third eye pulsed like a physical heart. I pounded my forehead from within. Another time I opened my eyes and all I could see was light and mist. Another time I felt complete oneness with my surroundings, and everything was HD. I it was like my eyes were looking at stuff as a microscope, and everything was part of my eyes, and all sensations were extremely comfortable. At the same time, I was as "drunk" as I ever had been. It was like I was taken to the earth for the first time, with no prior memory.

 

Such experiences are easy to hold onto and identify with. Only later did I realize that I needed to let them go, and that these aspects of reality are here now, within this moment. They can really be stumbling blocks, because they keep us "in time". My own practice suffered from this for years. Only recently have I "died" abit and suddenly the energy comes from all directions. =)

 

Yet the most important part of what you describe is, as I also feel, is that we really don't have a clue what is happening and why....

 

Ken Wilber has a great explanation of this here:

 

 

h

Edited May 8, 2012 by hagar

[manitou]

Owledge - your posts on the stuff you are remembering post-trip are FANTASTIC. As soon as I read your recent posts of you remembering the non-fixated nature of what you perceived as Reality - that reality is only one big web of inter-relations and relative positioning - this was the very point that don Juan Mateus (Castaneda's nagual) called the Web of Awareness. One big web of interrelatedness, that's all.

 

Holy mother of god, it's all in our minds. We are the Thinker, the Creator, the Vomiter.

[三江源]

 

Answering my prolonged and flaming account he said; "It's quite normal".

 

h

 

 

 

so apart from the demystification and the sense of perspective and your normality including stuff often called non - ordinary, another thing is..

 

it's great to be deeply moved by what is quite normal.

 

It's quite normal to love your child and at the same time its the deep magic of your daily life.

 

ha ha ha about the reeking and stinking, a few posts back.

[Owledge]

coool kinda exciting really - the center of the universe is everywhere?

Only a finite space can have a center.

[hagar]

 

 

so apart from the demystification and the sense of perspective and your normality including stuff often called non - ordinary, another thing is..

 

it's great to be deeply moved by what is quite normal.

 

It's quite normal to love your child and at the same time its the deep magic of your daily life.

 

ha ha ha about the reeking and stinking, a few posts back.

 

As far as non-ordinariness is concerned, the experience was "super-ordinary" and not "extra-ordinary", yet at the same time, definately makes a part of me want to experience it again, really bad.

 

Wonderful line you wrote about children. I can only confirm this; The ordinary is the extraordinary. I remember having one question readily on my lips the first years of my son's life: Where do you come from? Where were you before you were born? I also remember being "nuked" by my son when he was an infant. Basically the same quality as a qigong class.

 

 

h

[Owledge]

Another time I opened my eyes in a meditation with my teacher and my third eye pulsed like a physical heart. I pounded my forehead from within.

There was a guy at the shaman's who did shaolin kung fu, and for him that is a technique - synchronizing the pulse of the heart with that of the third eye.

 

Only later did I realize that I needed to let them go, and that these aspects of reality are here now, within this moment.

Well, I had one of those moments where it seems like I am talking to myself, expressing my feelings in words. I was thinking about my ayahuasca experience/sensations and then it was like: "Why are you coming back to this again? Still searching for something? You have already found it, don't you remember? You already are awakened. You chose to forget. Make up your mind."

Not on a rational basis, like a command to do anything. Trying to go back there in my mind is all part of the play and still a useful and interesting process, but it felt as if it was telling me that that 'other world' is, as you said, there, here, all the time. I'm simply phased out of it with my perception. But that other state is 'awakened'. So in a way, that coveted state of awakening or enlightenment or whatever people call it, that is not a state to reach or find, but a state of a mind accepting to stay in that realm while ordinary life is going on. It's all about how much reality you can handle.

(These are just vague thoughts I am moved by. No claim of accuracy.)

Edited May 9, 2012 by Owledge

[三江源]

As far as non-ordinariness is concerned, the experience was "super-ordinary" and not "extra-ordinary", yet at the same time, definately makes a part of me want to experience it again, really bad.

 

Wonderful line you wrote about children. I can only confirm this; The ordinary is the extraordinary. I remember having one question readily on my lips the first years of my son's life: Where do you come from? Where were you before you were born? I also remember being "nuked" by my son when he was an infant. Basically the same quality as a qigong class.

 

 

h

 

mm, yeh. When I was doing a vision quest, one of the things that happened was that the spirit of the deer revealed itself as etched into the landscape.. no distinction between the land and the deer.. I saw a huge deer was a huge earth mound. My heart was ablaze with love and water streamed out of my eyes to be able to be priveleged enough to be able to see, to be shared with by such a phenomenon. I want to be back in that green territory with the spirit of the deer.. and I am. Cos I'm telling you. It's part of me. Now it's part of you.

x

[hagar]

mm, yeh. When I was doing a vision quest, one of the things that happened was that the spirit of the deer revealed itself as etched into the landscape.. no distinction between the land and the deer.. I saw a huge deer was a huge earth mound. My heart was ablaze with love and water streamed out of my eyes to be able to be priveleged enough to be able to see, to be shared with by such a phenomenon. I want to be back in that green territory with the spirit of the deer.. and I am. Cos I'm telling you. It's part of me. Now it's part of you.

x

 

Thank you for sharing that Cat.

 

Deep communion with nature and animals, interestingly, is deeply dependent on surrender. Without exception, all the times these experiences has occured in my life, I was either exhausted, sick, content, or just lacking a degree of self-consciousness.

It is as if nature waits for us until we are "meek in spirit".

 

Even in Christian mysticism this understanding exist. I think it was St.John of the Cross who, after experiencing union with God wrote "If you come into the possesion of the All, you must own it without wanting anything".

 

h

[doc benway]

 

Deep communion with nature and animals, interestingly, is deeply dependent on surrender. Without exception, all the times these experiences has occured in my life, I was either exhausted, sick, content, or just lacking a degree of self-consciousness.

It is as if nature waits for us until we are "meek in spirit".

 

Or could it be that it's not nature waiting, but us?

She is already there for us, we just need to be ready to accept.

We need to let go of everything that is in the way and look with fresh eyes and an open heart.