............

[Protector]

If I thought you were serious I might.

 

Does this look like a link to you?

[Ya Mu]

Does this look like a link to you?

No, does it look like one to you?

 

Were you referring to this question and answer?

Sinfest, on 01 April 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Ya Mu, what makes nerves grow?

"Here, let me do that for you, what makes nerves grow

 

I started to answer, from a physiology viewpoint, "protein". But If yours is a serious question I will say, from an energetic viewpoint, we have seen in clinic regeneration of nerves with medical qigong. Nerves grow slowly but the process can be speed-ed up/enhanced by medical qigong"

[Protector]

I was referring to the 5 elements, so help me help you by telling me what you meant

 

What about the whole "5E" application? Can't recall off bat, but something like anger(wood) is controlled/quited by earth (which I can't recall)?

 

Aaron & I don't believe in that stuff

 

[Green Tiger]

As an aside, I'd hardly consider that an article from an unbiased source, Tom Rogers is the president and CEO of the Qigong Institute, the people that run the website it appears on.

 

In regards to your back pain, I'm not a doctor or Medical Qigong practicioner, so I wont give you medical or energy advice, but what I will say is that from my understanding they've linked lower back pain to stress and anxiety for a long time now. Making that connection was quite brilliant in my opinion, many people fail to realize it. Good luck with your future treatments, I hope everything works out for you.

 

 

 

Aaron

 

 

Thanks. I'm sure it will work itself out eventually.

 

The healing I've experienced goes much deeper than simply spinal health and stress relief, though. It has effected me in ways that I never expected, and wouldn't have thought possible.

 

I can totally understand why someone would be skeptical though. Chi, or whatever you want to call it, is very mysterious and elusive, and before I felt it I wasn't sure if it were real or not. I used to think it was just a metaphor for uniting many complex and disintegrated functions of the body.

 

Tom Rogers is not an unbiased source, but he makes a very strong, well referenced, point (IMO) about the difficulties many researchers have had when trying to nail down and accurately define this 'spooky' energy. That doesn't change the fact that many people with a variety of backgrounds have documented the effects of a mysterious force. Obviously, it hasn't been identified and classified to the satisfaction of the scientific community. Maybe it can't be. Maybe it (the energy) prefers it that way. Mystery makes life more exciting.

 

I only interjected because I assumed you were also interested in investigating this mystery. After reading more thoroughly, it appears that perhaps you are not, which I find somewhat puzzling. I can't imagine someone could be a frequent contributor to this forum and not be intrigued by the preponderance of people here who claim to have a relationship with this mystery. That alone would have spurred me into an intense investigation.

[Ya Mu]

I was referring to the 5 elements, so help me help you by telling me what you meant

Can you please rephrase this into your question you wish to ask, I don't quite understand what you are asking about the 5 elements. Or are you asking or just trying to tell me I don't understand (Help me to help you)?

 

edit: sp

Edited April 4, 2012 by Ya Mu

[Ya Mu]

Thanks. I'm sure it will work itself out eventually.

 

The healing I've experienced goes much deeper than simply spinal health and stress relief, though. It has effected me in ways that I never expected, and wouldn't have thought possible.

 

I can totally understand why someone would be skeptical though. Chi, or whatever you want to call it, is very mysterious and elusive, and before I felt it I wasn't sure if it were real or not. I used to think it was just a metaphor for uniting many complex and disintegrated functions of the body.

 

Tom Rogers is not an unbiased source, but he makes a very strong, well referenced, point (IMO) about the difficulties many researchers have had when trying to nail down and accurately define this 'spooky' energy. That doesn't change the fact that many people with a variety of backgrounds have documented the effects of a mysterious force. Obviously, it hasn't been identified and classified to the satisfaction of the scientific community. Maybe it can't be. Maybe it (the energy) prefers it that way. Mystery makes life more exciting.

 

I only interjected because I assumed you were also interested in investigating this mystery. After reading more thoroughly, it appears that perhaps you are not, which I find somewhat puzzling. I can't imagine someone could be a frequent contributor to this forum and not be intrigued by the preponderance of people here who claim to have a relationship with this mystery. That alone would have spurred me into an intense investigation.

It is puzzling to me as well. The only way ignorance can be overcome is to investigate.

 

Tom is honestly attempting to help people here. The website is a not-for-profit website developed by Dr Ken Sancier; Dr Sancier, himself, is an impeccable and impeccably credentialed scientist, probably the nicest person and most knowledgeable person I have met that understands the scientific implications of medical qigong while stating that as of now, we can only measure components of Qi but not the full spectrum. His qigong database, which I keep referring people here to, but it appears most are usually too damn lazy to look at, represents years of hard work.

[Protector]

I almost did a backflip in my chair after reading that bit, it's like hearing Jesus say that he doesn't believe in God. It's like you said that you don't practice Chinese medicine at all. Is there some reason you don't believe/apply five elements or you just misspoke somehow?

[Ya Mu]

I almost did a backflip in my chair after reading that bit, it's like hearing Jesus say that he doesn't believe in God. It's like you said that you don't practice Chinese medicine at all. Is there some reason you don't believe/apply five elements or you just misspoke somehow?

That's because Jesus had God within, not as an external man in the sky, and he was trying to tell you that you do too!

 

But, finally I do understand your question.

I learned and practiced this a very long time ago. It is a form of mid-level medicine. Remember low level = physical, mid level = mental added, high level = one goal, help a person find & fulfill their Destiny.

 

What I found is that while it can tell a practitioner things about their patient, it is an analysis that virtually has no meaning in high level medicine as high-level is not concerned with the linear.

 

Certainly not attempting to prove anything here, but one time a very long time ago I did ask, at a convention, some of the teachers and authors to do this analysis on me. 5 of them. Each answer was different, 2 were total opposites, 2 suggested prescriptions whose herbs contraindicated each other, and none even came close to what my problem was. Same thing in China with 3 well known doctors of Chinese medicine. One of them actually arrived at the correct diagnosis. He was the one I chose to study with.

 

So no. I do not practice it. Gave it up somewhere around 1985. I have a friend who does and obtains a fair amount of success with it. What I practice is medical qigong & Chinese Taoist Medicine, neither of which adhear to linear TCM theory. And no, I am not the only one who understands the terms low level, mid-level, high level Chinese medicine. But I do know many don't. Many don't understand that Chinese medicine encompasses a much broader field than what is known as TCM. And many that graduate in China today don't understand that actual TCM encompasses a much broader compass than today's "Communist TCM".

 

-----------------------------

PAIN is the subject. Please folks, how about asking or telling about pain.

[Owledge]

From what I read here he doesn't think it can be done at all, much less distance wise, except by one in a million.

That would amount to roughtly 6000 very powerful energy healers on the planet. Sounds realistic to me, if not exaggerated. So what's the problem with the one-in-a-million statement? I thought Twinner doesn't believe it's possible at all (unless he sees for himself), not that it is rare.

 

By the way, Ya Mu, you believe Twinner wouldn't believe it even if he witnessed it, even willing to bet on that. Are you still denying that your ego is massively involved?

 

Followup question: Are you willing to feel compassion for Twinner's probably sincere scepticism/confusion? Maybe he really would believe it once he witnessed it in a certain way, we should not apply rigid convictions. I would consider it an act of mercy and compassion to alleviate Twinner's pain and confusion by demonstrating it to him. Maybe his behavior is simply rooted in a longing for the wonders of the world that has been stunted by disappointing experiences in the past. Ya Mu, since it is a fact that you have impressive healing abilities that cannot simply be debated away if demonstrated, can you put your ego aside and try to help Twinner experience those wonders despite your current aversion for him? And even if he did still deny it as you so strongly believe (and I hope you don't send energy into that idea anymore), what do you have to lose?

This suggested approach is in the same spirit that your healing is, too. That people don't necessarily have to be taught a lesson, go through a hard trial, before they are allowed to experience relief, but that simple, plain action can mercifully help others not having to go through that.

Even someone who has a challenging attitude is in a way showing their despair and pain and disappointment. I find it skillful to not engage 'haunting' thought patterns (inner demons) of someone, but to totally circumnavigate them with compassionate action, and you are lucky that you have the means for that if you want to.

Your strong belief that Twinner would deny it nevertheless encourages the pain in him; you are actually inviting him to raise his degree of scepticism/denial. You are hurting/boosting his ego even more, and that makes it increasingly difficult for him to accept the truth of a powerful healing effect, because that admission would cause a lot of discomfort for him. Try to reduce that discomfort by forgetting all dispute that has come before.

 

Do you see how we are manifesting our beliefs in the outer world?

 

P.S.: I heard what you said about non-convention and energetics behind the surface behavior. I'm still learning, observing, exchanging ideas, maybe hoping to get feedback that clicks with me. Recently I've had experiences pretty much like yours here, also not caring what other think, but one was about me receiving help and the other one a dispute. In both cases, those who had strong adverse opinions were only strengthened in them. One did little more than imitate me and showered me with blames that he himself showed to an extreme degree.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Owledge

[Mokona]

IMO about 5 elements,

 

The type being reffered to, as a cycle, wood leading to metal, to water... on and on.

(Incorrect statements, i'm just pinpointing the correct 5 elemental info)

 

I don't see why it would be required once you can feel feedback from the patient. I used to practice a form of distance healing that used projection/OBE and Reiki(and Chi kung experimentation), and from what I found is while I couldn't make out everything about a person(at that point) but I could feel areas they felt pain in my own body, and work on the effected area.

 

I can't see how any set process would be more effective than direct psychic feedback?

 

(That's sorta what is being discussed when "Listening" is mentioned?) Curious and just asking for clarification.

[Owledge]

@Mokona

I agree. From my experience, taking Ba Zi (chinese astrology based on 5E) as an example, this system is relatively easily verifiable. It is very accurate and helpful, but it can be very much replaced once you can sense those energy interactions. Very sensual people will, when examined 5E style, look like they are designing their whole life around the 5E knowledge, when in fact they might not even know what that is. They might not even be interested in spirituality.

 

So in a way, it has an amusingly ironic touch to see how Twinner doesn't believe in Ya Mu's energy healing abilities and Ya Mu doesn't believe in the 5E system. We all have our blind spots. Open-mindedness, like all character traits, are not a yes/no question, but very much case-dependant.

(A guy could totally believe that there are pink elephants all around us on a different plane of existence, but laugh his ass off when he hears someone believing in Santa Claus.)

Edited April 4, 2012 by Owledge

[Ya Mu]

That would amount to roughtly 6000 very powerful energy healers on the planet. Sounds realistic to me, if not exaggerated. So what's the problem with the one-in-a-million statement? I thought Twinner doesn't believe it's possible at all (unless he sees for himself), not that it is rare.

 

By the way, Ya Mu, you believe Twinner wouldn't believe it even if he witnessed it, even willing to bet on that. Are you still denying that your ego is massively involved?

 

Followup question: Are you willing to feel compassion for Twinner's probably sincere scepticism/confusion? Maybe he really would believe it once he witnessed it in a certain way, we should not apply rigid convictions. I would consider it an act of mercy and compassion to alleviate Twinner's pain and confusion by demonstrating it to him. Maybe his behavior is simply rooted in a longing for the wonders of the world that has been stunted by disappointing experiences in the past. Ya Mu, since it is a fact that you have impressive healing abilities that cannot simply be debated away if demonstrated, can you put your ego aside and try to help Twinner experience those wonders despite your current aversion for him? And even if he did still deny it as you so strongly believe (and I hope you don't send energy into that idea anymore), what do you have to lose?

This suggested approach is in the same spirit that your healing is, too. That people don't necessarily have to be taught a lesson, go through a hard trial, before they are allowed to experience relief, but that simple, plain action can mercifully help others not having to go through that.

Even someone who has a challenging attitude is in a way showing their despair and pain and disappointment. I find it skillful to not engage 'haunting' thought patterns (inner demons) of someone, but to totally circumnavigate them with compassionate action, and you are lucky that you have the means for that if you want to.

Your strong belief that Twinner would deny it nevertheless encourages the pain in him; you are actually inviting him to raise his degree of scepticism/denial. You are hurting/boosting his ego even more, and that makes it increasingly difficult for him to accept the truth of a powerful healing effect, because that admission would cause a lot of discomfort for him. Try to reduce that discomfort by forgetting all dispute that has come before.

 

Do you see how we are manifesting our beliefs in the outer world?

It would be a great idea here for you to read the thread and not jump to these wild conclusions.

 

So what's the problem with the one-in-a-million statement? I thought Twinner doesn't believe it's possible at all (unless he sees for himself), not that it is rare.

 

If you had of read the thread..., but here I will do it for you:

... I don't think it's possible, except for the greatest of practitioners, as in one in a million have this ability.

 

Do I have a problem with his own personal belief? Absolutely not. No one understands anything until they have studied it, and he hasn't. So I wouldn't expect him to understand. What I have a problem with is someone stating nonsense as fact when they have not studied the subject.

Do I have a problem with the one in a million? Why yes, because it isn't true. Now if you want to know why it isn't true you can ask me in a respectful manner and I will answer. If you wish to continue with your bullshit insults, I am not interested in giving you any information.

 

By the way, Ya Mu, you believe Twinner wouldn't believe it even if he witnessed it, even willing to bet on that. Are you still denying that your ego is massively involved?

 

What is involved here is your passive aggressive manner bordering on aggressive manner of insult. Please stop this nonsense and stick to the thread about pain.

I would bet on it because I have seen it over and over for more years than you are alive.

 

The rest of your post, meh. You use your "psychoanalysis skills" to attempt to apply linear and mental to something that goes far beyond this. It doesn't work that way. As far as to what you suggest would help twinner, it wouldn't work. He will come to conclusions at his pace, not yours or mine. This is as it should be. Again, I have no problems with his own personal conclusions as long as he keeps it as opinion without making broad generalizations to a field of study that he has never involved himself in.

 

Do try to keep to the thread subject.

[Ya Mu]

IMO about 5 elements,

 

The type being reffered to, as a cycle, wood leading to metal, to water... on and on.

(Incorrect statements, i'm just pinpointing the correct 5 elemental info)

 

I don't see why it would be required once you can feel feedback from the patient. I used to practice a form of distance healing that used projection/OBE and Reiki(and Chi kung experimentation), and from what I found is while I couldn't make out everything about a person(at that point) but I could feel areas they felt pain in my own body, and work on the effected area.

 

I can't see how any set process would be more effective than direct psychic feedback?

 

(That's sorta what is being discussed when "Listening" is mentioned?) Curious and just asking for clarification.

Ah, finally, understanding is actual! Very good!

 

What I think you are referring to is indeed an aspect of Listening but doesn't encompass the whole of what Listening is. But yeah, certainly can be and usually is a part.

I do suggest though, if you ever wish to continue your healing practice, to go past the empathy feeling in your own body to direct sensing in their body. The reason being is that with the method you are mentioning, it could be quite easy to absorb sick qi.

But you do have talents here and I encourage you to follow them.

[Aaron]

Okay...now we have a baseline. So your argument is that while you accept that there is qi and it can be manipulated, manipulation over long distance is not acceptable to you...right?

 

Some further clarifying questions:

 

A) do you agree that this can be (qi) be manipulated by another person in close proximity? Tat it can be projected/made to iduce movement in another individual?

B ) do you accept that it can be manipulated either by touch or without physical contact from close proximity?

Or

C) do you hold that only an individual can manipulate his own qi but not influence others?

 

Until I see evidence otherwise, I hold to C. I think it's possible for someone to manipulate another person's qi, but I think they're one in a million practitioners.

 

Aaron

[Protector]

Knowing 5 elements system in TCM is knowing how the human body is made.

In 5 elements, 5 is the the total number of basic components in any one item.

In human body there are 5 sets of pairs of major vital organs.

If only I was more knowledgeable in medicine, I could bind 5E with the pain topic better

[Ya Mu]

Knowing 5 elements system in TCM is knowing how the human body is made.

In 5 elements, 5 is the the total number of basic components in any one item.

In human body there are 5 sets of pairs of major vital organs.

If only I was more knowledgeable in medicine, I could bind 5E with the pain topic better

Well, I think you did ok. But do know there are other methods that transcend this linear aspect.

[dwai]

Until I see evidence otherwise, I hold to C. I think it's possible for someone to manipulate another person's qi, but I think they're one in a million practitioners.

 

Aaron

Have you ever done taiji chuan two person /push hands with an advanced practitioner? If you have, then you wont have any doubts about A or even B...of course that which projects out is a manifestation of qi, ie jin. We do it all the time in my teacher's school...it is very real...but of course you dont have to take my word on it.

[Owledge]

@Ya Mu

I hear you and I realize that my approach is quite intellectual.

Can you please clarify what you mean and how you perceive it (the process behind it) when you say I am insulting you? I mean, it's not like I am stating facts, in case it sounded like it, it was not my intention. I am posting ideas, suggestions, and yes, it might not apply because I don't know you that well, but do you have a problem with that?

 

Also, regarding:

 

It would be a great idea here for you to read the thread and not jump to these wild conclusions.

"So what's the problem with the one-in-a-million statement? I thought Twinner doesn't believe it's possible at all (unless he sees for himself), not that it is rare."

If you had of read the thread..., but here I will do it for you:

 

"Twinner, on 03 April 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

... I don't think it's possible, except for the greatest of practitioners, as in one in a million have this ability."

 

I am just confused because it is not really clear what Twinner's issue is; what he expects from you or anybody:

 

quote Twinner:

"I'm not an entire skeptic mind you, I just don't see any evidence, personal or otherwise, to say that someone has the ability to alter the chi in someone else or from a distance. I don't think it's possible, except for the greatest of practitioners, as in one in a million have this ability. There are far too many people claiming they have supernatural abilities, but not many that can actually show them to be true, that's my issue.

 

Were there men who could heal others by laying a hand on them, possibly, but I will hold to my skepticism til I see it for myself, which I haven't yet."

 

These two paragraphs are somewhat in conflict with each other it seems. So Twinner believes it is possible, but rare, then he says he doesn't believe it can be done. You replied:

 

"Aaron,

I would be willing to bet that even if you did see it you would come up with some nonsense as to why it wasn't valid."

 

This last statement is why I asked you to clarify. What would he see and presumably not believe to be valid? Many more people than one in a million doing it? And how could that be practically demonstrated in the first place?

[Aaron]

That would amount to roughtly 6000 very powerful energy healers on the planet. Sounds realistic to me, if not exaggerated. So what's the problem with the one-in-a-million statement? I thought Twinner doesn't believe it's possible at all (unless he sees for himself), not that it is rare.

 

By the way, Ya Mu, you believe Twinner wouldn't believe it even if he witnessed it, even willing to bet on that. Are you still denying that your ego is massively involved?

 

I believe people should be open to experiences that might be outside their comfort zone and that we should never accept absolutes, because that denies us the chance to experience change if it occurs at a later time, however I also believe that there needs to sufficient evidence before one should make a decision and that even if something sounds logical, it doesn't necessary mean it's true, science has proven this again and again, by the way.

 

Followup question: Are you willing to feel compassion for Twinner's probably sincere scepticism/confusion? Maybe he really would believe it once he witnessed it in a certain way, we should not apply rigid convictions. I would consider it an act of mercy and compassion to alleviate Twinner's pain and confusion by demonstrating it to him. Maybe his behavior is simply rooted in a longing for the wonders of the world that has been stunted by disappointing experiences in the past. Ya Mu, since it is a fact that you have impressive healing abilities that cannot simply be debated away if demonstrated, can you put your ego aside and try to help Twinner experience those wonders despite your current aversion for him? And even if he did still deny it as you so strongly believe (and I hope you don't send energy into that idea anymore), what do you have to lose?

This suggested approach is in the same spirit that your healing is, too. That people don't necessarily have to be taught a lesson, go through a hard trial, before they are allowed to experience relief, but that simple, plain action can mercifully help others not having to go through that.

Even someone who has a challenging attitude is in a way showing their despair and pain and disappointment. I find it skillful to not engage 'haunting' thought patterns (inner demons) of someone, but to totally circumnavigate them with compassionate action, and you are lucky that you have the means for that if you want to.

Your strong belief that Twinner would deny it nevertheless encourages the pain in him; you are actually inviting him to raise his degree of scepticism/denial. You are hurting/boosting his ego even more, and that makes it increasingly difficult for him to accept the truth of a powerful healing effect, because that admission would cause a lot of discomfort for him. Try to reduce that discomfort by forgetting all dispute that has come before.

 

Do you see how we are manifesting our beliefs in the outer world?

 

Ya Mu did nothing wrong, per se, he is only acting as his conscience tells him to. He might have been emotionally invested in the discussion, but why not? He has been practicing Qigong and TCM for several decades and I'm sure anyone would be upset if someone stated that what they believe and have dedicated their life to is false. I'm not offended by this in the least, nor am I in need of compassion in this regard. Believe me, I am not some lost lamb that has failed to find the flock, rather I have decided the flock isn't for me just yet. If at some point in the future, through meditation and practice I find things to be different, then so be it, but I am absolutely not saying people should not practice TCM, but rather they should do it responsibly. Don't believe something just because it sounds logical or it's deemed to be true, trust your own experiences and allow the truth to arise on its own.

 

A quick point, no one can make you feel emotionally anything you don't choose to feel. Every decision you make is your responsibility, so if I did suffer as a result of Ya Mu's comments, that's on me, not him.

 

Aaron

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2012 by Twinner

[Owledge]

Thank you for clarification. Sounds reasonable. I also agree that our feelings are our responsibility, and reflecting on the choices we make regarding what to feel, insight can be gained.

[Ya Mu]

@Ya Mu

I hear you and I realize that my approach is quite intellectual.

Can you please clarify what you mean and how you perceive it (the process behind it) when you say I am insulting you? I mean, it's not like I am stating facts, in case it sounded like it, it was not my intention. I am posting ideas, suggestions, and yes, it might not apply because I don't know you that well, but do you have a problem with that?

 

Also, regarding:

 

 

 

I am just confused because it is not really clear what Twinner's issue is; what he expects from you or anybody:

 

quote Twinner:

"I'm not an entire skeptic mind you, I just don't see any evidence, personal or otherwise, to say that someone has the ability to alter the chi in someone else or from a distance. I don't think it's possible, except for the greatest of practitioners, as in one in a million have this ability. There are far too many people claiming they have supernatural abilities, but not many that can actually show them to be true, that's my issue.

 

Were there men who could heal others by laying a hand on them, possibly, but I will hold to my skepticism til I see it for myself, which I haven't yet."

 

These two paragraphs are somewhat in conflict with each other it seems. So Twinner believes it is possible, but rare, then he says he doesn't believe it can be done. You replied:

 

"Aaron,

I would be willing to bet that even if you did see it you would come up with some nonsense as to why it wasn't valid."

 

This last statement is why I asked you to clarify. What would he see and presumably not believe to be valid? Many more people than one in a million doing it? And how could that be practically demonstrated in the first place?

I really hate to repeat myself as I have already answered most of this.

Your insulting manner is a method of posting, quite common on TTB and other forums, where a passive aggressive/sometimes aggressive statement about "ego" is a classical "debate" method of ignoring the real issues and attempting to negatively put any particular poster on the defensive. It is usually used when the person doing it has nothing of value to add and wishes to attempt to belittle the person it is used on. Now you slightly do it again here with this post "Do you have a problem with that?" I am not interested in this type of stuff, am not here to debate and when it is a question, will only respond when asked in a respectful manner. You know, like if you were really talking to a person instead of having the internet as a buffer. And no, I don't wish to "debate" this. Go debate someone who cares about nonsense if that is what you want to do.

 

I did ask you to attempt to get back to the topic.

The only question you asked me in this post that I have not already answered, is this:

"Many more people than one in a million doing it? And how could that be practically demonstrated in the first place?"

Pretty easy. At my workshops and you will see every single person there, including total beginners, after only 3 days, able to get an average 80% to 100% result rate of eliminating pain utilizing medical qigong. Consistently.

You asked. Now if you wish to argue about this go argue with someone that wants to argue.

 

And, can we get back to the topic of Pain?

[Mokona]

Until I see evidence otherwise, I hold to C. I think it's possible for someone to manipulate another person's qi, but I think they're one in a million practitioners.

 

Aaron

I've met in person more people who can do that than I have fingers. My favorite was a scientist that worked in Iowa City. He started getting into wierd stuff and went off track but hey, we are only human.

 

In retrospect - why do we consider our healers and energy workers to be pedestal worthy? Some people with strong energy abilities are straight jerks, or wierdos. I had one guy that started going nuts as he got better, and wanted to sex my energy or something. We stopped communicating.

[Mokona]

Thank you for clarification. Sounds reasonable. I also agree that our feelings are our responsibility, and reflecting on the choices we make regarding what to feel, insight can be gained.

I forgot to post the OWL petting video, I'll PM you in a few hours. Do with it what you will.

[Owledge]

@Mokona

Yes, abilities and character can be on very different levels of development, if you can quantify that, that is. You know what I mean. You can have a total asshole who is still helping many people with his skills. Not even sure whether being stuck in an imbalance like that is any problems for the person. Probably only if you assume they have to grow spiritually, which would apply your expectations onto them. Then again, we can always try in a detached way.

( Thanks for intending to send me the owl video link. I think I'll use it in my plans for world domination. )

 

@Ya Mu

I am aware that you would like to get back on the 'pain' topic, but trying to control a Tao Bums thread is not something that will make you happy.

Assume responsibility for what you manifest instead of avoiding discomfort. You want to strongly combat false accusations about medical qi gong and then you deny that you want to debate. Bluntly speaking, and while I respect all that is good in you (maybe exactly because of that) I've had enough experience with this kind of behavior to sense that 'something is odd'. And let me tell you that it is part of the spiritual path to work on our fears and overcome them, and I don't fear any outcome of this. When you cannot deal with something in a relaxed way, either some kind of fear is involved or you are playing an act, aiming to create a certain effect, but in the latter case, I don't know how avoidance gives that a suitable finish.

 

In your last reply you made a lot of assumptions about other people, and those shape your perception of the world. You might be right in certain cases, and it is good to have awareness about possibilities, but every case is different. You repeatedly mention passive-aggressive and insults. What about

"It is usually used when the person doing it has nothing of value to add and wishes to attempt to belittle the person it is used on"

That is clearly passive-aggressive, no? Did you apply that assumption to me, or am I, in your view, somewhat of an exception when you say "usually"?

I don't wanto to belittle you. I am sharing my views and insights, hoping for new insights in the process. If I wanted to belittle you, I would use the rhetoric that you are using, including emotionally loaded terms like "nonsense".

 

Usually when things don't go easy, an important lesson knocks on the door, so please don't shy away from the opportunity. Welcome whatever happens, don't try to control things too much.

 

Quoting you again:

"You know, like if you were really talking to a person instead of having the internet as a buffer."

This is the same belittling that you think you see in others. Making your case using accusations about means that you yourself employ is what I meant ... manifesting internal stuff on the outside. (While all the time I am aware how I am also manifesting this, but I don't have (immediate) fears connected to it, so I have no problem.)

Maybe you didn't consider that I might have talked to you in pretty much the same way if this thread's conversation had happened in personal contact. Making this assumptive distinction reeks of self-importance, and that's what can happen if character development lags behind development of abilities. It's actually something that is relatively common in external martial arts people I think.

 

I want to emphasize though that I don't disrespect any fears you might have based on the great investment you took for attaining your healing skills. I am simply trying to point out that there might be something internal that's worth looking at.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Owledge

[Ya Mu]

...

And this shit is what I get for attempting to answer your questions. It is obvious that you weren't interested in any answers after I waste my time answering your non-topic question. Gee thanks.

Such a great work of psychobabble and false direction (another common internet "debate technique"), attempting to throw your very own insults back to being my fault and attempting to psychoanalytically translate things I have said to your false and misleading interpretations of what you want to think I said and what you think the world is like. Neither the world nor I conform to your specifications and strange ideas.

I have no need or want for your unsolicited ill-conceived advice as to how to do anything. Just as twinner didn't have need of that type of ignorant advice.

zzzzz, not interesting

 

One day you will learn that psychobabble, insults, & mis-direction will only get you so far in life. "Winning" a debate and insulting me seems like what you are most interested in here, instead of learning, which could help you a great deal. Please don't continue this line of insult that you are using. This COULD have been a really good thread. (All your post above is your ego talking. This smacks of arrogance. How old are you? Isn't it time for you to do your homework? Does your Mother know you are posting?) - Just kidding, because you could very well be a newly minted psychologist or perhaps just another newagey person. Or a high school kid.

I have not hurled the same insults as you and you well know it. So cut the bullshit.

 

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In general,

 

I guess none is interested in talking about pain on this thread anymore... I know, I can start a new thread, put the real posts about pain by respectful and honest people on it and ask that this one be used to hurl insults at me and all the other bullshit... but then some people acting like people who no one would invite to their house would come on that thread and start up there so it probably wouldn't work.