............

[Ya Mu]

Well, now it's clear that you certainly love that "passive-aggressiveness" and "belittling" you mentioned. And in case you felt I started it, then, as I mentioned before, it's still unwise to counter with the same stuff you crizicize.

I assure you it was serious and not passive-aggressiveness. I was/am alarmed of your use of those terms. Didn't really pick up on it until today while re-reading the posts; sometimes I am as dense as anyone else. Still wish you the best and hope that healing always comes your way whenever your higher-level self needs it for your journey. My apology was/is sincere.

[Aaron]

Aaron, you should quit making false claims - you started insulting me - I didn't insult you - and you damn well know it. Do we need to repost what was said?

 

Changing the name of the thread was practical because it no longer was a thread about pain - only a very few posts were coming through about pain - they were all by people wanting to derail the thread so no continuity could be continued - after one post about pain there were far too many about pure bullshit - and you know this as well. I can edit anything I want in what I post and it isn't up to you to make judements of or to me about it - or childishly whine about it. It sounds like what happened here is you thought I had left the thread and had to get that final bullshit out of your mouth so as to "prove your superiority", and came back with an over-the-top post when I said something about it.

 

No one forced your hand on this issue - you chose to post your nonsense.

 

I was referring to the thread derailing where it seemed impossible to have any continuity due to people that kept on and on about nothing to do with the topic. Nothing was said about you.

 

uh, "hissy fit"?, I am not even sure what that is, but since you came up with it perhaps it has meaning to you. Perhaps this is what you just had.

 

Ya Mu,

 

You're passive aggressive method may have worked on 5ET, but it wont on me. I am not going to flip out and insult you to the point I get banned. I am instead going to say, "tsk", "tsk", and walk away. This argument isn't worth the energy it's taking to keep it going.

 

In closing, I disagree with you, so I must be, evil, ignorant, stupid, robotic, and the list goes on. And I would recommend you read the thread again to see who was insulting who. I made statements regarding my opinion, you disagreed in a vehement way. Have a nice life.

 

Aaron

 

 

[Owledge]

I assure you it was serious and not passive-aggressiveness. I was/am alarmed of your use of those terms. Didn't really pick up on it until today while re-reading the posts; sometimes I am as dense as anyone else. Still wish you the best and hope that healing always comes your way whenever your higher-level self needs it for your journey. My apology was/is sincere.

Haha, you call that an apology?

You might still be fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. It's still your ego doing self-preservation. I've had enough experience with my own ego creating layer upon layer of strategy and deception and adaptation in order to wiggle its way through, but I had a teacher that is above the human mind, and it broke through that process.

Stop fighting other people, look at yourself! You are seeing all those problems (threats) on the outside, because your egoic mind is trying to distract you from dealing with the internal issues. Unless you surrender to your heart, it's only going to get worse.

[Mokona]

Haha, you call that an apology?

You might still be fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. It's still your ego doing self-preservation. I've had enough experience with my own ego creating layer upon layer of strategy and deception and adaptation in order to wiggle its way through, but I had a teacher that is above the human mind, and it broke through that process.

Stop fighting other people, look at yourself! You are seeing all those problems (threats) on the outside, because your egoic mind is trying to distract you from dealing with the internal issues. Unless you surrender to your heart, it's only going to get worse.

 

As a 3rd person observer - I really think this is an exaggerated response. By gones should be by gones.

 

I mean, really? Bless your hearts for at least believing yourselves to be the forum police on manners and ego but this has gotta be itchin the straw man in all of us at this point.

[Ya Mu]

Haha, you call that an apology?

You might still be fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. It's still your ego doing self-preservation. I've had enough experience with my own ego creating layer upon layer of strategy and deception and adaptation in order to wiggle its way through, but I had a teacher that is above the human mind, and it broke through that process.

Stop fighting other people, look at yourself! You are seeing all those problems (threats) on the outside, because your egoic mind is trying to distract you from dealing with the internal issues. Unless you surrender to your heart, it's only going to get worse.

I still wish you the very best. Can do no more.

[Owledge]

You can do less, for a start.

[Jetsun]

So if, lets say, I have a very emotionally traumatic experience involving intense fear, even though I was not physically injured in any way, this could manifest as a physical pain or injury? Possibly a misalignment of the spine or something like that?

 

 

Yes this is even being recognised my mainstream trauma experts now, the theory is that when a trauma is overwhelming or we don't want to deal with it our muscles and fascia contract to block off conscious awareness to the energy of the event so it is stored in our body in order to be deal with at a later time or controlled so we don't express it at the time. So it is not the trauma itself which causes the physical symptoms rather it is our reaction to try to control or deny the trauma which can cause our body to contract around it which can cause pain long term.

 

I don't think there is one place where trauma is stored, I know of one person who was having bodywork on their legs and it brought up a traumatic episode from their childhood when they had to run away, another person had the traumatic memory of being slapped by their mother in their cheek (and could release it using Taoist methods).

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu,

 

You're passive aggressive method may have worked on 5ET, but it wont on me. I am not going to flip out and insult you to the point I get banned. I am instead going to say, "tsk", "tsk", and walk away. This argument isn't worth the energy it's taking to keep it going.

 

In closing, I disagree with you, so I must be, evil, ignorant, stupid, robotic, and the list goes on. And I would recommend you read the thread again to see who was insulting who. I made statements regarding my opinion, you disagreed in a vehement way. Have a nice life.

 

Aaron

Well Aaron, you have a nice life too!

I only said you were ignorant about medical qigong, as in you hadn't studied it. Just like I am ignorant in the subject "chemistry" as in I haven't studied it. It would be entirely ignorant and uninformed for me to post about chemistry as if I knew about it. I think you are most probably a very smart person. Me, I am usually dumb as a 9 year old boy in Sunday School that wants to get out of church to go fishin.

[Ya Mu]

You can do less, for a start.

Thank you. Good Point!

[Owledge]

Me, I am usually dumb as a 9 year old boy in Sunday School that wants to get out of church to go fishin.

That's not dumb. That's the divine childlike nature that is so much worth cultivating. The other stuff is just put on top by the messed up adult world.

[Ya Mu]

That's not dumb. That's the divine childlike nature that is so much worth cultivating. The other stuff is just put on top by the messed up adult world.

agree, it is just an expression, a local saying I grew up with

[三江源]

Haha, you call that an apology?

You might still be fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. It's still your ego doing self-preservation. I've had enough experience with my own ego creating layer upon layer of strategy and deception and adaptation in order to wiggle its way through, but I had a teacher that is above the human mind, and it broke through that process.

Stop fighting other people, look at yourself! You are seeing all those problems (threats) on the outside, because your egoic mind is trying to distract you from dealing with the internal issues. Unless you surrender to your heart, it's only going to get worse.

 

Owledge, you are barking up entirely the wrong tree. Lots of us here have met YaMu and are aware on what level of consciousness he operates. Nobody who has such knowledge of him would agree with your hypothesis.

[doc benway]

Yes this is even being recognised my mainstream trauma experts now, the theory is that when a trauma is overwhelming or we don't want to deal with it our muscles and fascia contract to block off conscious awareness to the energy of the event so it is stored in our body in order to be deal with at a later time or controlled so we don't express it at the time. So it is not the trauma itself which causes the physical symptoms rather it is our reaction to try to control or deny the trauma which can cause our body to contract around it which can cause pain long term.

 

I don't think there is one place where trauma is stored, I know of one person who was having bodywork on their legs and it brought up a traumatic episode from their childhood when they had to run away, another person had the traumatic memory of being slapped by their mother in their cheek (and could release it using Taoist methods).

I've worked with some trauma release methods and I think they have some real value.

In terms of storing trauma, I agree with you.

The thing to be aware of is that all tissues and organs in our body are intimately integrated and in constant communication with each other through mutliple mechanisms (hormonal, neurological, fascial, vascular, energetic, etc...). So I thinks it's a bit misleading to try too hard to isolate or localize problems too much. Certainly there is value there - if I break my tibia, it needs to be fixed. But that experience, moving forward will be captured and "remembered" in many other organ systems and aspects of my being, beyond just my tibia.

[Aetherous]

Lots of us here have met YaMu and are aware on what level of consciousness he operates.

 

But are you aware of what level of consciousness Owledge operates on?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Scotty

[Marblehead]

 

Is there a specific way that certain emotional traumas might manifest in the body? Does anyone know?

I say "Yes!" but I have no data to back it up with. I have seen it happen many times in 'real' life.

[Birch]

There are hordes of books on that stuff.

Personally, I've found TCM to be a pretty good set for it. I've also experienced some of the more 'out there' healing modalities that aren't as 'systemic' in their association of meaning to any given 'symptom'. I was going to say they were 'holographic' but that's probably too trendy a concept right now.

 

Steve says it very well IMO.

 

What I have personally discovered through some of this stuff (includes practice) is that the less 'dismembered' I am i.e.the less I 'separate' whatever aspect of myself from some other aspect is bothering. An easy example is 'my gut-feeling' which for some reason I have grown up ignoring as 'something other' from myself until I figured it was actually 'just me' albeit in a different mode of expression. You know if my thoughts say one thing and my gut says another, why do I ignore one and believe the other? That kind of thing.

[Owledge]

@Green Tiger

Cancer can be a manifestation of emotional trauma. There can be other contributing factors, but there's quite conclusive research that the emotional can be the trigger, and that cancer is one of those physical reactions that don't match reality, because the body tries to (over)react to something purely emotional. But it might also be a weakening of an organ, which would be more according to chinese medicine wisdom. In both cases, it would be like when you cannot 'stomach' a shocking experience/problem and then get stomach cancer.

(Anyway, the doctor who did the research was hunt down and died in prison. One of those cases where someone challenges power structures I guess.)

[doc benway]

So if, lets say, I have a very emotionally traumatic experience involving intense fear, even though I was not physically injured in any way, this could manifest as a physical pain or injury? Possibly a misalignment of the spine or something like that?

 

Is there a specific way that certain emotional traumas might manifest in the body? Does anyone know?

 

For instance, if I have a verbally abusive person in my life who expresses a lot of anger toward me, would that emotional trauma manifest differently than the intense fear? Perhaps I'm attempting to split hairs.

 

What I would like to understand is: Do specific emotions relate to specific areas of the body? Does stress ALWAYS manifest as lower back pain, in everyone, or is it more subjective? Maybe my stress manifests as shoulder tension and her stress manifests as hip tension, but TYPICALLY it manifests as lower back pain? Or maybe there is no typical way for it to manifest at all. Maybe it is totally subjective.

Yes - emotional trauma is a very common cause of physical symptoms. Often it exaggerates symptoms associated with an otherwise minor (or more serious) issue. Sometimes it causes symptoms to occur in the absence of any physical malady.

 

A few common physical illnesses that are deeply rooted in emotional trauma - chronic pain (especially neck, back, shoulder, knees, elbows), asthma, chronic diarrhea, carpal tunnel syndrome, reflux, migraines, chest pain, tremors, and the list goes on. And this does not include the more distinct group of conversion disorders and somatization, which are psychiatric illnesses in which emotional factors cause abnormalities to develop that have no basis in any anatomic or physiologic disturbance (such as clenched fist syndrome or Munchausen's syndrome).

 

Do specific emotions target specific areas? I wouldn't say consistently so, but I do think there are some patterns which are highly variable and yet recognizable. For example, anger and rage are very frequently associated with chronic back pain.

[Owledge]

(obsolete post)

Edited April 9, 2012 by Owledge

[Ya Mu]

So if, lets say, I have a very emotionally traumatic experience involving intense fear, even though I was not physically injured in any way, this could manifest as a physical pain or injury? Possibly a misalignment of the spine or something like that?

 

Is there a specific way that certain emotional traumas might manifest in the body? Does anyone know?

 

For instance, if I have a verbally abusive person in my life who expresses a lot of anger toward me, would that emotional trauma manifest differently than the intense fear? Perhaps I'm attempting to split hairs.

 

What I would like to understand is: Do specific emotions relate to specific areas of the body? Does stress ALWAYS manifest as lower back pain, in everyone, or is it more subjective? Maybe my stress manifests as shoulder tension and her stress manifests as hip tension, but TYPICALLY it manifests as lower back pain? Or maybe there is no typical way for it to manifest at all. Maybe it is totally subjective.

Yes, absolutely it could manifest as intense physical pain. In many and unpredictable ways. I have seen this many times in clinic. Same thing with a physical injury. It can manifest in many unpredictable ways. I have also seen this many times in clinic.

 

One curious thing I have seen is that people receive physical or emotional injuries as a child or teen and no symptoms manifest until age 30 or so. No, one can not tell exactly when this will occur. But time after time I have been working on someone who, when interviewed said they had no injuries as a child or teen. Then, as I am working on them BAM, memory comes back to the event of injury. Or I will start working on them and ask them when they injured one of the ankles where I palpate an old injury. And they will say they haven't. But when I release the stagnation of energy then all of a sudden "Oh yes, I DO remember injuring that ankle when I fell out of a tree when I was 7 years old" or some other specific.

 

Yes I think that "splitting hairs" will not manifest any particular truth about this.

 

No, I have not seen in clinic that specific emotions manifest in specific areas of the body. While I don't discount the old "liver anger" association, quite frankly I have seen this manifest in so dang many ways that the only thing I can definitely tell you is that one can not predict this. Better to not have any preconceived idea of a client or patient before working on them. See my preconceived notions versus Tao post in my blog.

[Ya Mu]

I went in for some weird pain last month. I was sitting at my desk and my neck started becoming stiffer and stiffer. it hurt nearly too much to drive to medical. when I arrived someone else from my command was in for the same thing, on my way out another guy had just gone in with the same symptoms. The doc didn't try to find out what was wrong with me, she prescribed heaps of muscle relaxers and sent me away. She just said " sometimes people feel pain."

It was crap.

I have heard this story over and over and have also personally experienced frustration with western medicine and pain knowledge.

[Aaron]

So what happened here? Ya Mu's rants have been removed and the fact I called him out on his BS was removed as well. I guess if you represent a major advertiser, you can rewrite anything you want, or am I wrong in this regard?

 

Aaron

[Birch]

Perhaps Ya Mu removed his himself? Then the mods cleaned up?

Thread is def not looking like it was before. I'd be interested in the whys.

[Creation]

No, I have not seen in clinic that specific emotions manifest in specific areas of the body. While I don't discount the old "liver anger" association, quite frankly I have seen this manifest in so dang many ways that the only thing I can definitely tell you is that one can not predict this.

My experience with myself on the organ/emotion correspondences is that, say, the liver must become active for anger manifest in the present moment; in some sense anger comes through the liver. But the source does not have to have anything to do with the liver. Similar with worry-spleen, fear-kidneys, etc.

[Aaron]

Perhaps Ya Mu removed his himself? Then the mods cleaned up?

Thread is def not looking like it was before. I'd be interested in the whys.

 

Cleaned up what? The fact that he reacted in a juvenile way? How was he even able to change the title of the thread? Only a mod can do that. I didn't ask for my posts in response to his to be removed, but they were. I think it was an attempt to save him some face, since he seems to think of himself as a master and I don't know many masters that would behave like that. My question is, if he can have it done, can anyone go into a thread where they've behaved like a jack ass and just have all history of it removed?

 

Aaron

Edited April 8, 2012 by Twinner