............

[Ya Mu]

My experience with myself on the organ/emotion correspondences is that, say, the liver must become active for anger manifest in the present moment; in some sense anger comes through the liver. But the source does not have to have anything to do with the liver. Similar with worry-spleen, fear-kidneys, etc.

Yes, this is similar to what I see with this particular issue.

My point is really that these things are so deeply involved with everything else that to attempt a direct association, while possibly true on the surface, ignores the many other interactions and possibilities. For a therapist this direct association "knowledge" is kinda like walking down the road with blinders on, like a harnessed horse. Always best for a therapist to approach with no preconceived ideas leaving them open to finding and helping with the real issue and not just attempting to help a part of the whole.

[Birch]

Cleaned up what? The fact that he reacted in a juvenile way? How was he even able to change the title of the thread? Only a mod can do that. I didn't ask for my posts in response to his to be removed, but they were. I think it was an attempt to save him some face, since he seems to think of himself as a master and I don't know many masters that would behave like that. My question is, if he can have it done, can anyone go into a thread where they've behaved like a jack ass and just have all history of it removed?

 

Aaron

 

I've edited my own posts before and yes, I think I can edit the title of the topic I started. I don't know about editing or removing other people's.

Yes, I think I would want to be able to do that, remove my own jackass posts. I've got rid of a bunch in the personal forum.

[Ya Mu]

Cleaned up what? The fact that he reacted in a juvenile way? How was he even able to change the title of the thread? Only a mod can do that. I didn't ask for my posts in response to his to be removed, but they were. I think it was an attempt to save him some face, since he seems to think of himself as a master and I don't know many masters that would behave like that. My question is, if he can have it done, can anyone go into a thread where they've behaved like a jack ass and just have all history of it removed?

 

Aaron

Please stay on topic of pain. And please quit your personal insults. No one wishes to come on a thread and read deliberate attempts to add personal insults, attack a person's character, and to derail a thread because you have a previous personal dislike for someone.

 

If you wish to post on the thread try speaking on-topic and not behaving like a person who would much rather insult someone else than post about a topic. And please try to address the topic of the thread which is Pain. Your continued attempts to take the thread off-topic through character attacks are annoying to the group as a whole and, to my understanding, is against forum rules. Many of us wish to seriously address these issues of Pain, a subject where not much is really known.

And, instead of complaining about not knowing how to edit your own posts I do believe if you simply asked someone they would gladly inform you.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Ya Mu

[gendao]

NO WAIT - according to some of those above I need to let you hold onto the pain for a while so you can learn from it. Now - how long do I wait until you have learned a really good lesson.

I concur. I think the lesson of pain is generally to figure out whatever is causing it and FIX IT (if at all possible)! So, why waste ANY TIME with that???

[Ya Mu]

I concur. I think the lesson of pain is generally to figure out whatever is causing it and FIX IT (if at all possible)! So, why waste ANY TIME with that???

Yeah, it is difficult for me to see why anyone wishes to hurt. Pain often goes far beyond just "hurting" to the point that it totally disrupts people's lives and can cause extraordinary amounts of suffering.

[Aaron]

You know at 1st examination I thought that a valid point had been made regarding Pain and if we had experienced it we may be more compassionate to the person that is experiencing pain.

 

However, upon reflection , it is more sympathy and less compassion. For instance, the persons thumb hurts because they hit it with a hammer and yes I have hit my thumb with a hammer so I know what it felt like to me when it happened. Wait you hit it with a sledge hammer - oooh, that must of hurt, now let me use Medical Qigong on it to try to relieve the swelling, discoloration, and intense pain you are having.

 

NO WAIT - according to some of those above I need to let you hold onto the pain for a while so you can learn from it. Now - how long do I wait until you have learned a really good lesson.

 

Waiting, waiting, waiting....

 

 

 

I would love for you to point out where anyone said you must wait and suffer from the pain in order to learn a lesson. The message was that pain is meant to teach us that something is wrong, that if we accept it as such then our attitude about pain can be different, rather than always seeing it as a harmful thing, we can accept it as being beneficial, which it is.

 

In regards to compassion, how can one be compassionate if they do not even know that someone is suffering? How can someone know someone is suffering if they haven't experienced it for themselves? Pretty hard to explain, don't you think?

 

 

Aaron

[Mokona]

I would love for you to point out where anyone said you must wait and suffer from the pain in order to learn a lesson. The message was that pain is meant to teach us that something is wrong, that if we accept it as such then our attitude about pain can be different, rather than always seeing it as a harmful thing, we can accept it as being beneficial, which it is.

 

In regards to compassion, how can one be compassionate if they do not even know that someone is suffering? How can someone know someone is suffering if they haven't experienced it for themselves? Pretty hard to explain, don't you think?

 

 

Aaron

IMO

Pain is only beneficial if it is perceived to be so, the same with negative outlooks. Of course pain normally indicates a problem. As an example, i've been stuck in the old man bent over position at work, and i'm only 25. my supervisor wanted me to stay, thank her boss squashed that crap. But the point is the pain was an indication of injury, but I had.no need to become emotionally involved. That's how I see it anyway.

[Birch]

Ever wince when you see someone else hurt themselves?

Or even if they tell you about something that hurt?

 

I don't know exactly what that is, but it would seem that there's a communication of some kind.

[Aaron]

IMO

Pain is only beneficial if it is perceived to be so, the same with negative outlooks. Of course pain normally indicates a problem. As an example, i've been stuck in the old man bent over position at work, and i'm only 25. my supervisor wanted me to stay, thank her boss squashed that crap. But the point is the pain was an indication of injury, but I had.no need to become emotionally involved. That's how I see it anyway.

 

Again, I agree, there is no need to get emotionally involved when one is suffering physical pain, in fact it's better to have a clear head, but in the same way, if you do feel panic or anxiety, oftentimes that's indicative of the severity of the situation and that should be taken into account too. My point is that pain should be examined, rather than just treated and dismissed. One can learn a great deal from their own pain and suffering, if they are willing to examine it honestly.

 

Aaron

[Kempomaster]

How can we understand what a persons pain is to them? If we haven't felt that pain?

 

Good God nobody would be able to deal with anybody else issues, Doctors couldn't treat patients - no I haven't had Parkinsons yet, psychologists couldn't treat manic/depressive - no I see spirits , but, don't have wild mood swings -- Wait let me go out and get in a train wreck so I can understand how you feel... of course these are dramatic examples but you get my point. We don't have to physically experience the issue to have an understanding of the problem.

 

No you dont have to have had the identical experience at all. You gentle reader, should actually attend a Medical Qigong seminar and begin to learn about healing. The more Healing work you do..the more time and effort you put into practice..you don't have to have had the same hammer hit my toe so now I know how it feels to have compassion and understanding for a persons pain or other dis-ease state.

 

When we become Talented Energetic Healers our knowledge of each situation develops - as I have said before - such that we can feel what the person is feeling -- even at a much deeper level than my toe is throbbing -- we feel their hopes, fears, etc so we know we are treating more than just a painful shoulder or whatever may be hurting. Many times our path to pain wasn't just a simple I dropped the heavy crate on my foot and as such I have pain - but that can be the case.

 

So as a healer we develop a deeper understanding of these issues and as such - treat the whole person -- mind, body, spirit!

 

Kempomaster

[Green Tiger]

This may be a bit off topic, but I posted this video in another thread and I was curious what those reading this thread might think of it. Does it look like Mr. Clyman is curing or causing pain? Does anyone have any experience with this method of healing or something similar?

 

 

[Moderator team]

Ok, well, okee-dokey.

I'm here to moderate and, yes, this is our new snappy "Moderator Team" member that we'll be using at least occasionally. I like it. Makes it super clear that it's moderation.

 

Regarding this thread specifically, right now.

1. This thread, thus far, is declared "a draw" as far as moderation issues go. All parties argued vigorously, so what do you expect other than vigorous arguement? That means everything to 'here' is a non-mod issue. Hence forth in this thread or anywhere, if there are personal attacks/insults, use the 'report' button.

3. I will go through the thread and "approve" (unhide) all of the posts that we hid while considering this matter. Thanks for your patience.

4. Ya Mu, if you would like a Personal Practice forum, please contact any of the moderators. You would have more control in that context (as does anyone in their own PPF). We could then copy this thread into your subforum and you could modify it as you like, there. The original would stay here as-is.

 

Some notes about TTBs environment in general, quoted for emphasis.

Notes for everyone:

 

GENERAL DISCUSSION SECTION (most sections, actually)

1. Principle: In General Discussion it's an OPEN INTERNET discussion forum. There's a variety of people here on a level conversational playing field. That's the context.

2. If you don't want to argue with someone, then don't. If you don't want want speech to be coarse, then keep your speech clear.

3. Simple harrassment, "trolling", is not tolerated - but widely diverse, even strongly opposed points of view are not only tolerated but valued. The challenge becomes to resolve, move on, ignore - to do whatever you do to keep your own part of the conversation clear and contributive. It's an unusually open social environment that often takes some getting used to.

3. If there are personal insults, ad hominem attacks, use the "report" button.

4. If you'd really just rather not see any of X's posts, the "ignore" feature is a too often overlooked little beauty of a feature.

 

PERSONAL PRACTICE SUBFORUMS

Each person has more security rights (authority) in their own subforum (if you request one to be made for you). Any one can delete posts (and some other stuff I think maybe etc) in their own subforum. If you want more control over some threads that you want to invest more in, in a certain way/s than you might not in the open format of the general discussion area, get your own subforum. A lot of the sweet spots of TTBs are in the personal practice forums.

 

- Trunk

Edited April 9, 2012 by Moderator team

[Aaron]

How can we understand what a persons pain is to them? If we haven't felt that pain?

 

Good God nobody would be able to deal with anybody else issues, Doctors couldn't treat patients - no I haven't had Parkinsons yet, psychologists couldn't treat manic/depressive - no I see spirits , but, don't have wild mood swings -- Wait let me go out and get in a train wreck so I can understand how you feel... of course these are dramatic examples but you get my point. We don't have to physically experience the issue to have an understanding of the problem.

 

No you dont have to have had the identical experience at all. You gentle reader, should actually attend a Medical Qigong seminar and begin to learn about healing. The more Healing work you do..the more time and effort you put into practice..you don't have to have had the same hammer hit my toe so now I know how it feels to have compassion and understanding for a persons pain or other dis-ease state.

 

When we become Talented Energetic Healers our knowledge of each situation develops - as I have said before - such that we can feel what the person is feeling -- even at a much deeper level than my toe is throbbing -- we feel their hopes, fears, etc so we know we are treating more than just a painful shoulder or whatever may be hurting. Many times our path to pain wasn't just a simple I dropped the heavy crate on my foot and as such I have pain - but that can be the case.

 

So as a healer we develop a deeper understanding of these issues and as such - treat the whole person -- mind, body, spirit!

 

Kempomaster

 

You don't need to be in a train wreck to know what physical pain feels like. You don't need to have parkinson's to understand that the lack of control over one's body can cause them to suffer. These kind of grandiose claims have no basis in disproving what I've said.

 

In order to empathize with others, we must first have suffered, not necessarily the same suffering, but something that allows us to know what they've felt. Remember back when you were a child, before you lost anyone close to you, how did you feel when one of your friends lost someone close to them, wasn't it hard to empathize with the loss, instead you empathized with their sadness. So no, you don't have to experience the same thing, but suffering is inherently a part of empathy and compassion.

 

If you say that you can sense another person's emotions, great, I wont say anything about that, but what I will say is that it's ingrained in each of us to understand people's emotions. Body signs, facial cues, etc., however much of this is culturally based, there are certain signs that are universal. In understanding these signs, one can understand the emotional state of the person we're talking to. Nothing mystical about it, just being observant. The highest level Buddhists in Tibet and Japan are well known for being able to do this and say it's akin to reading a book.

 

"Master, how did you know he was sad?"

 

"It was written in his face."

 

 

Aaron

Edited April 9, 2012 by Twinner