Recently I got to speak with an enlightened master and ask what enlightenment is.

[RiverSnake]

All my experiences with meditation has taught me that Emptiness is a good thing and brings greater clarity into ones life...thus emptiness meditation.

 

Whether he is enlightened or not i think he is onto something.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Owledge]

Believing that someone has achieved Enlightenment is not enough, we have to work to achieve that state, meditate, transmute and remove your own obscurations.

May I recommend that you replace "Enlightenment" with "full enlightenment"? Otherwise you might cultivate a thought process that disregards all progress on the path of (not to) enlightenment and makes reaching the final state impossible.

[FieryWind]

Owledge: Sure, you could definitely use that wording, no problem.

 

Although without any sort of rudeness I wish to point out that; if you read my wording further, you will note that I did mention the progress that you are speaking of, only in other words.

Edited April 16, 2012 by FieryWind

[Owledge]

And that progress is enlightenment.

If you argued that there's a final state, you'd have trouble really being sure you reached it, or defining when you reached it. Apparently there's a lot of disagreement about it.

 

Imagine you finally reach enlightenment, but don't realize it and thus continue working towards it. Or you think you reached it, but didn't, and stop working towards it too early.

Does all that matter?

[Thunder_Gooch]

[Sunya]

Guys, I'm not a mod or anything, but if you post in the Buddhism forum could you please learn to use Buddhist terms correctly? Emptiness means dependent arising, as in no-self, conditional, relative, causally linked, etc. In this thread alone I see people constantly using the term incorrectly. Things don't arise from emptiness because Buddhist emptiness is not nothingness; it's not a formless source of everything. Emptiness is not an 'it' at all. Emptiness is simply a description. Don't reify it to be something. That's totally missing the point.

 

It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?" The Buddha replied, "Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ānanda, that the world is empty. - Suñña Sutta

 

 

What I got out of my talks with him was that emptiness is actually fullness, and completeness.

 

The emptiness is the thing dreaming, and observing the dream, according to him.

 

It came from emptiness, sustained briefly then dissolved back into emptiness

 

None of this makes any sense from a Buddhist pov.

 

Voidness does not mean nothingness, but rather that all things lack intrinsic reality, intrinsic objectivity, intrinsic identity or intrinsic referentiality. Lacking such static essence or substance does not make them not exist —- it makes them thoroughly relative.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81

Edited April 19, 2012 by Sunya

[XieJia]

would like to second Mr Sunya's

 

enlightenments liberates delusions

 

nothing and something is mutual

Edited April 19, 2012 by XieJia

[三江源]

.

Edited March 24, 2015 by 三江源

[Thunder_Gooch]

Yes I realize there are traditional Buddhist terms.

 

What he told me verbatim, was that the void of outer-space isn't empty, and matter isn't solid.

 

This "physical" reality is a literal dream, and our "physical" bodies and minds are not the thing dreaming it.

 

It's a 180* shift in thinking.

 

Whether he is really enlightened or not I don't know.

 

I do know all the zen koans I've ever heard about make sense now after having him explain the answers to me.

 

Who knows what he is, maybe he's just another nutcase. He was smart as a whip and pretty darn interesting to me though.

 

 

 

Guys, I'm not a mod or anything, but if you post in the Buddhism forum could you please learn to use Buddhist terms correctly? Emptiness means dependent arising, as in no-self, conditional, relative, causally linked, etc. In this thread alone I see people constantly using the term incorrectly. Things don't arise from emptiness because Buddhist emptiness is not nothingness; it's not a formless source of everything. Emptiness is not an 'it' at all. Emptiness is simply a description. Don't reify it to be something. That's totally missing the point.

 

It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?" The Buddha replied, "Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ānanda, that the world is empty. - Suñña Sutta

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

None of this makes any sense from a Buddhist pov.

 

Voidness does not mean nothingness, but rather that all things lack intrinsic reality, intrinsic objectivity, intrinsic identity or intrinsic referentiality. Lacking such static essence or substance does not make them not exist —- it makes them thoroughly relative.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81

Edited April 19, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[mYTHmAKER]

 

I do know all the zen koans I've ever heard about make sense now after having him explain the answers to me.

 

 

One cannot make sense of zen koans through explanations. Explanations are from the mind.

The answers to the koans are beyond mind and must be experienced.

[Thunder_Gooch]

One cannot make sense of zen koans through explanations. Explanations are from the mind.

The answers to the koans are beyond mind and must be experienced.

 

The answers he gave me clicked, and I experienced what he was talking about, that's why I posted this here, because it clicked in more than just an intellectual sense.

 

I think it's the exact same thing Norquist is talking about. I don't see how a shift in perception like that can change the content of the dream though, and that's what I am seeking.

 

So even if this is enlightenment, it does nothing to help me with what I seek.

[Simple_Jack]

[JustARandomPanda]

This "physical" reality is a literal dream, and our "physical" bodies and minds are not the thing dreaming it.

 

It's a 180* shift in thinking.

 

I have actually walked around for one day off and on doing exactly as VMarco often posts - consider everything like it's an honest-to-god dream. After a while...well...it's kinda weird. I started to wonder..."I wonder if what VMarco says is really true? Good Lord...I'm just a dream?! Does that mean if I 'treat everything as a dream' long enough the Dream will 'pop'? What happens if it does?"

 

Man..it gets pretty weird thinking that cause after a while I kinda fell into a state where I was just watching *everything* I thought and did with the curious attitude of 'I wonder what's gonna be my next thought?" and "I wonder what I'm gonna do next?"

 

It *was* interesting to test VMarco's advice out as an actual daily 'awareness' exercise.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The term Buddha means "Awakened".

 

When it clicked for me, I popped out of existence.

 

I was no where to be found anywhere, there just was stuff there without me in any of it.

 

It's quite possible that is just further into a state of delusion.

 

It's also possible I misunderstood what this guy was saying and put my own mental filters into it.

 

It's also quite possible he is just insane.

 

Or all the above.

 

His advice to me though was that we didn't come here to be enlightened, we came here to enjoy ourselves and help others enjoy themselves. This is vacation time, meant to be enjoyed.

 

Sincerely pursuing enlightenment was the stupidest thing you could possibly do, as it annihilates you in the process of finding it, if you ever find it you cease to exist and never return.

 

Or so he told me.

 

Maybe I really seek a better delusion than I do truth. I just don't want to be reborn, and continue on as a mind like I am now.

 

 

 

Here is a poem I really dig by an author who seems similar to Norquist and the guy I spoke with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have actually walked around for one day off and on doing exactly as VMarco often posts - consider everything like it's an honest-to-god dream. After a while...well...it's kinda weird. I started to wonder..."I wonder if what VMarco says is really true? Good Lord...I'm just a dream?! Does that mean if I 'treat everything as a dream' long enough the Dream will 'pop'? What happens if it does?"

 

Man..it gets pretty weird thinking that cause after a while I kinda fell into a state where I was just watching *everything* I thought and did with the curious attitude of 'I wonder what's gonna be my next thought?" and "I wonder what I'm gonna do next?"

 

It *was* interesting to test VMarco's advice out as an actual daily 'awareness' exercise.

Edited April 21, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[flowing hands]

[forum_jedi]

If I am just a dream and each of you are just a dream, and there is no, I, self, that, etc. What is the point of our search, or anything? Why do we search when there is nothing to be found?

 

What happens when the emptiness wakes up? Do we all wink out of existence and return to the void? If this is so, is there really anything to find for us, the characters of the dream?

[Thunder_Gooch]

If I am just a dream and each of you are just a dream, and there is no, I, self, that, etc. What is the point of our search, or anything? Why do we search when there is nothing to be found?

 

What happens when the emptiness wakes up? Do we all wink out of existence and return to the void? If this is so, is there really anything to find for us, the characters of the dream?

 

 

Well each of our paths are different.

 

To be honest this idea of enlightenment may not be what enlightenment really is.

 

There is a good chance this guy and others like him are just nutty butters, that have flipped their lids.

 

I don't think this version of enlightenment is what I want at all.

 

I just want to end rebirth and continue meditating for eternity, that's my idea of heaven and that's what I seek.

 

I just like to explore new ideas and concepts and teachings.

 

Philosophy like this usually doesn't do much for me, I just found it thought provoking.

 

Even in a worst case scenario, whatever happens isn't up to us so there is no use worrying about it. We might as well enjoy life and be good people no matter what. I can stub my toe and know that suffering still exists irregardless of if it is illusory or not, so working together to lessen the suffering of others is still a noble goal no matter what the ultimate reality of the situation may be or not be.

 

Basically I am saying whatever is already is, so it shouldn't effect how you live your life or what you choose to do with it.

Edited April 21, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Fū Yue]

If I am just a dream and each of you are just a dream, and there is no, I, self, that, etc. What is the point of our search, or anything? Why do we search when there is nothing to be found?

 

Freedom of being. We're all, in some form or another, searching for freedom. To be, or not to be... that is the question. It's an oxymoron though, because 'not being' is just another form of being.

 

What happens when the emptiness wakes up? Do we all wink out of existence and return to the void? If this is so, is there really anything to find for us, the characters of the dream?

 

Even the void can be seen through. There is no difference between this dream and that dream, so when, during your ordinary life, the edges of your car wind into an eternity revealing endless sentient beings and their dramas, the profoundly far-reaching effects of this very moment may be a little more... self-evident? Perhaps it will serve as an inspiration to become a bodhisattva and end suffering.

[forum_jedi]

 

Even in a worst case scenario, whatever happens isn't up to us so there is no use worrying about it. We might as well enjoy life and be good people no matter what. I can stub my toe and know that suffering still exists irregardless of if it is illusory or not, so working together to lessen the suffering of others is still a noble goal no matter what the ultimate reality of the situation may be or not be.

 

Basically I am saying whatever is already is, so it shouldn't effect how you live your life or what you choose to do with it.

 

Well, if what happens isn't up to us, and whatever is already is, why do we bother searching, investigating, or seeking? Why even bother working to lesson suffering?

 

If this is actually the case, I should just sit around eating chocolate and watching tv, reading, and playing video games because, if that is the truth, I bear no responsibility for my actions and my fate is already decided.

[forum_jedi]

Freedom of being. We're all, in some form or another, searching for freedom. To be, or not to be... that is the question. It's an oxymoron though, because 'not being' is just another form of being.

 

 

 

Even the void can be seen through. There is no difference between this dream and that dream, so when, during your ordinary life, the edges of your car wind into an eternity revealing endless sentient beings and their dramas, the profoundly far-reaching effects of this very moment may be a little more... self-evident? Perhaps it will serve as an inspiration to become a bodhisattva and end suffering.

 

How can not being be another form of being? If I am not a lion, does that make me another form of a lion?

 

How can there come to exist sentiment beings when there is no existence just the dreams of emptiness?

[Owledge]

If this is actually the case, I should just sit around eating chocolate and watching tv, reading, and playing video games because, if that is the truth, I bear no responsibility for my actions and my fate is already decided.

How about: Your fate is already decided and you bear full responsibility for your actions.

 

How can there come to exist sentiment beings when there is no existence just the dreams of emptiness?

How can you see stuff in your dreams when you are unconscious?

Edited April 21, 2012 by Owledge

[C T]

Well, if what happens isn't up to us, and whatever is already is, why do we bother searching, investigating, or seeking? Why even bother working to lesson suffering?

 

If this is actually the case, I should just sit around eating chocolate and watching tv, reading, and playing video games because, if that is the truth, I bear no responsibility for my actions and my fate is already decided.

Nothing wrong with sitting around eating chocolate and all the rest of the fun stuff as long as one is not expecting to gain any profound insights from such practices. There is, however, a fraction of a chance that the impossible could happen. It could be that one is fully prepped in a previous instance (or lifetime, whichever applies) -- one could arrive at complete enlightenment from doing any or all of the above, simultaneously... B A N G! There you are... right where you were meant to be, doing exactly THAT which you were meant to do. What happens then?

[Fū Yue]

How can not being be another form of being? If I am not a lion, does that make me another form of a lion?

 

How can there come to exist sentiment beings when there is no existence just the dreams of emptiness?

 

Non-existence or existence, both are just an awareness of an arrangement of light misconstrued as such a state. You are not a lion, as far as you can tell, you are a human. So your awareness identifies with what you are conscious of, that of 'being human'. But really, what does that entail? What is a human? Being is always becoming, and impermanence is inevitable. What would make non-existence exempt from this rule? It, too, is a concept born from an impermanent mind. But what is it that this impermanent mind rests upon, always?

 

We cannot be seperated from this hard light, but we can soften our view. These dreams are a radiant life, incarnate... a living aesop fable. Within this fey and impossible world, dreams are reality. Our thoughts echo on planes unseen and these ripples are themselves beings, just like you or I. A mind within a mind within a mind, never seperate from the source for even a second!

 

So, what of this self-imposed exile? Empty is the universe, it is full to the brim with hidden potential.

[C T]

Non-existence or existence, both are just an awareness of an arrangement of light misconstrued as such a state. You are not a lion, as far as you can tell, you are a human. So your awareness identifies with what you are conscious of, that of 'being human'. But really, what does that entail? What is a human? Being is always becoming, and impermanence is inevitable. What would make non-existence exempt from this rule? It, too, is a concept born from an impermanent mind. But what is it that this impermanent mind rests upon, always?

 

We cannot be seperated from this hard light, but we can soften our view. These dreams are a radiant life, incarnate... a living aesop fable. Within this fey and impossible world, dreams are reality. Our thoughts echo on planes unseen and these ripples are themselves beings, just like you or I. A mind within a mind within a mind, never seperate from the source for even a second!

 

So, what of this self-imposed exile? Empty is the universe, it is full to the brim with hidden potential.

Me likey much..

[JustARandomPanda]

Sincerely pursuing enlightenment was the stupidest thing you could possibly do, as it annihilates you in the process of finding it, if you ever find it you cease to exist and never return.

 

I was under the impression this was a Wrong View in Buddhism! Is this incorrect?