Chi Kung & Emotional Lyposuction lecture by Nei Kung Master Gary J. Clyman

[Wells]

As I tried to point out, the sternum point was crucial and a tough nut to crack, and he didn't crack it.

Gary states in comments on youtube that he doesn't feel ANYTHING when he sucks the shit out of someone. So he can't "feel" into someone and stops when the pain of the costumer is gone. Therefore he checks the points again after the procedure to test if the pain is gone. With which reason didn't he continue the treatment when you still felt pain on that point at the end?

BTW even if Gary didn't crack it that doesn't mean that he couldn't. Gary's Jing is so strong that he could literally smash your whole chi and destroy you instantly. He only uses a very small percentage of his vibration for the Emo-Lipo and surely there is the possibility that you are the exception who would have needed more time or more of his power to get the stuff burnt out. Nobody (even Gary) could exclude that possibility.

 

OK, maybe you are not aware of this profound wisdom: In order to really know people, you have to challenge them. Of course Gary can be all-confident as long as he is within his own comfort zone. Only when things don't go as expected, then observe how people deal with it. And it happens so often that they lose their composure, which indicates an emotional vulnerability, an attachment, inner demon, whatever you want to call it. It's not healthy.

According to Gary (and my friend who attended that seminar and who is now convinced of Gary's high quality in any way) he challenges the people and their beliefs on his seminars to get into conflict with them and trigger insight and healing. That's contrary to your statement.

 

Words can be deceiving. It is more important to look at the "how" than at the "what". (Just as people-readers will tell you that a liar's body-language will speak the truth.)

...IF you are good at it. In the other case you will fool and delude yourself also.

Do many other people share your opinion about yourself that you can see right into people?

 

(..in my case, they do! )

 

It might seem to you like strong projections, but it's psychoanalysis mixed with many other disciplines for verification and deepening. You don't have to believe anything of course, but please consider the possibility. I am still heavily questioning me all the time and refining, and I would be honored if you kept an open mind.

If you allow me to continue using my skills here: Your perception is shooting over the goal because of an emotional attachment (after all you posted a kind of advertising thread, not an inquiring one) when you ask how I generalize my impression. Because I didn't generalize. I never doubted that Gary's method works in almost all cases. I simply pointed out that he cannot handle well that his method doesn't have 100% success rate and that he becomes ugly when it fails. If he didn't have an inner issue connected to that, he could be relaxed about it. (There's a German saying that goes in the direction of what I mean, maybe you know it: 'The one who shouts is wrong.')

Good to hear that you agree that Gary's treatment works on most people. I certainly won't claim that 100% of all people on earth would be cured with one of Gary's treatments. No method works on 100%. Therefore the scientific saying: "The exception confirms the rule." Maybe you would have needed a longer or more treatments or that Gary would have used more of his Jing or maybe the shit is out and you are imagining things, I don't know.

But excuse me, I think it's unlikely that someone who achieved that power over chi, that money, that fan base of excited costumers and students, that LIFE Gary has achieved all by himself through hard work without achieving an adamantine self-confidence that simply can't be shaken!

[Wells]

[Owledge]

With which reason didn't he continue the treatment when you still felt pain on that point at the end?

Why are you asking me again? I just stated my thoughts on it, did you overread again? He didn't tell me that anything was wrong or that I might need more treatments. Maybe he stopped because my skin was bleeding already. But as I mentioned (do I have to repeat myself all the time?), he fully expected me to feel unburdened. In his perception (and his statements in later e-mail correspondence), he did nothing wrong and everything went as intended.

 

he challenges the people and their beliefs on his seminars to get into conflict with them and trigger insight and healing. That's contrary to your statement.

That was actually very lazy-ass. He let us fill out a short questionnaire, heard our answers, then gave us 'better' affirmations that we should repeat while doing some energy practices. That and playing his videos on the TV for $1000. Easy job.

 

BTW even if Gary didn't crack it that doesn't mean that he couldn't. Gary's Jing is so strong that he could literally smash your whole chi and destroy you instantly.

 

...

 

According to Gary (and my friend who attended that seminar and who is now convinced of Gary's high quality in any way)

 

...

 

Do many other people share your opinion about yourself that you can see right into people?

 

(..in my case, they do! )

 

...

 

But excuse me, I think it's unlikely that someone who achieved that power over chi, that money, that fan base of excited costumers and students, that LIFE Gary has achieved all by himself through hard work without achieving an adamantine self-confidence that simply can't be shaken!

That's why I called you a fanboy. Not as an empty insult, but because you're not even trying to hide it. You still have to learn that people of status can still be fools and that nobody is perfect. Furthermore, I am not defining myself through other people's opinions of me. I am seeking the truth in my own heart. It's more empowering. This is a spiritual forum. Learn the basics.

[Wells]

That was actually very lazy-ass. He let us fill out a short questionnaire, heard our answers, then gave us 'better' affirmations that we should repeat while doing some energy practices. That and playing his videos on the TV for $1000. Easy job.

My buddy thought it was GREAT (as can be read here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19500-master-clymans-ppt-workshop/)...

Some energy practices...?

 

That's why I called you a fanboy. Not as an empty insult, but because you're not even trying to hide it. You still have to learn that people of status can still be fools and that nobody is perfect. Furthermore, I am not defining myself through other people's opinions of me. I am seeking the truth in my own heart. It's more empowering. This is a spiritual forum. Learn the basics.

You are saying that I have to learn the basics (which means that you think that I know nothing) and that you know what I should learn.

You imply that you are not interested in validating your own opinion with reality by saying that other people's opinion isn't of worth for you and you "seek truth in your own heart". Allright!

You know, I value the opinion of my buddy and of myself higher than yours...because we both have genius level IQ's. Mine was scientificly proven through the the APM test, still the best to test the general intelligence g. That means my insight in anything I deal with is higher than the insight of 99.7% of the world's poulation would be. It's scientificly proven, I don't need to hide from reality "in my own heart" or something like that. So maybe you should trust science and therefore trust our judgment.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Birch]

Oh man, Santo Daime, here I come...

 

---only half kidding opinion alert---

[Owledge]

You are saying that I have to learn the basics (which means that you think that I know nothing) and that you know what I should learn.

You imply that you are not interested in validating your own opinion with reality by saying that other people's opinion isn't of worth for you and you "seek truth in your own heart". Allright!

I am already aware that you are happily distorting things. Not that I expect you will learn, but let me correct:

- "Learn the basics" doesn't necessarily imply that you know none. But you haven't demonstrated some so far. Very insecure reaction that you feel so belittled. It will continue to happen until you regain your spiritual independance. The battle to be fought is on the inside, with yourself, with sincerity.

- I don't claim I know what you should learn, I merely made a suggestion.

- I don't attempt to validate my opinions with other people's opinions, but with observation, verification, comparison, pondering, insight and many other means until a big consistent picture emerges.

Very telling that, in your above statement, you equal other people's opinions with reality. This is pop-culture thinking. And that's why I suggested you learn the basics of spirituality.

 

Since you are so dependant on other people's opinions, it is also no surprise that you take my suggestions so seriously and exaggerate them and thus their meaning for your life. But the interpretation of things said is your responsibility. As long as your emotional makeup maintains a perceptual filter like that, you will imagine outer threats that are just a manifestation of your inner state.

 

You know, I value the opinion of my buddy and of myself higher than yours...because we both have genius level IQ's. Mine was scientificly proven through the the APM test, still the best to test the general intelligence g. That means my insight in anything I deal with is higher than the insight of 99.7% of the world's poulation would be. It's scientificly proven, I don't need to hide from reality "in my own heart" or something like that. So maybe you should trust science and therefore trust our judgment.

You have a long journey ahead of you.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Owledge

[Protector]

wait wait

I ran out of popcorn, be right back

somebody press pause

[Wells]

wait wait

I ran out of popcorn, be right back

somebody press pause

No need for that! Owledge/Hardyg already exposed in this thread the flaws of Emo-Lipo: Gary is at least unable to suck out napoleonism...

[Wells]

You have a long journey ahead of you.

 

True...at least concerning my Nei Kung training.

 

I read in your posts that you even wanted to instruct your psychotherapist how he should do his work! Maybe I should feel better now, haha. I guess you are a hopeless case and I will ignore your comments from now on. But nevertheless I hope you will find what you seek as I hope it for every human on earth.

[mjjbecker]

[Green Tiger]

I'm still sceptical most of the videos come from his own camera straight after the he's done the technique, has anyone here had it done and can testify to this miracle technique?

 

I went through a period of seeing many healers and straight after the sessions sometimes I would feel great and like a weight lifted off my shoulders, sometimes even weeks later I would feel good until a stress happens and a the old issues flare up again. After one Zero Balancing session I felt the most grounded I had ever felt in my life, but all the benefits proved to be temporary. Many healers know what points to press to temporarily remove stress and even faith healers can generate the healing effect just from placebo and through the force of their personality.

 

A good healer can release a lot of physical problems in one session but to wipe you emotionally clean no chance, maybe i'm just cynical but my bullshit detector goes off around Clyman.

 

I concur. I have also had some major breakthrough healing sessions, only to wake up the next morning feeling approximately the same as I did before. Healing seems to be two steps forward--one step back.

 

I've heard of Clyman, never met him. From what I've heard, I suspect he may be capable of doing what he claims, but I still wouldn't let him touch me.

[Owledge]

If IQ is the innate horsepower of a car then thinking skill is the equivalent to driving skill.

And wisdom is knowing where you're going.

[Birch]

I've had the '24 hour healing' effect with Reiki. Why? Because for some reason I wanted to believe that someone else could miraculously resolve one or more of my problems in short order with no real effort (except for showing up) on my part. Same goes with multiple other methods/transmissions/reading.

[Moonbar]

Hes just digging people in the ribs, i can make someone skwirm like that.

[Wells]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Gary is all about brute force. That's mostly true and the reason for that is that Gary HAS the amount of force that 99.9% of all the others DON'T have. Therefore Gary can suck out the crap from you like a surgeon can cut out a tumor. Therefore his treatment is so effective. 99.9% of the others simply don't have the power to do that. They only do weak (excuse me: gentle ) energetic procedures because they only CAN do these because their energy isn't powerful enough to do more drastic measures! Gary's Jing can cut through your chi like a hot knife through butter...or like a surgeon's knife through your body tissue!

Ever seen in the famous John Cang videos on youtube how the little boy screams when Chang treats him with his Jing...? BECAUSE IT WORKS DRASTICALLY...as Gary's does!

Think about that!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Owledge]

Hes just digging people in the ribs, i can make someone skwirm like that.

Right on the sternum?

I can't inflict nearly that amount of pain on myself even if I use my fingernail. And as I said, in my case, that level of pain was relatively mild. It also felt a bit like going deep, like an inch - it was not superficial pain. Another guy was pretty shocked, yelling "Jesus Christ!" and THAT was still nothing compared to the pig-like squealing that a woman made. Sounded like she was being burned alive. Of course, these differences could be due to different pain tolerance, but maybe pain tolerance is a relevant variable in the whole process. Because I suspect that pain tolerance might have to do with inner resistance or self-torture - that it is emotionally based.

Who knows. ... Gary doesn't.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Owledge

[Jetsun]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Gary is all about brute force. That's mostly true and the reason for that is that Gary HAS the amount of force that 99.9% of all the others DON'T have. Therefore Gary can suck out the crap from you like a surgeon can cut out a tumor. Therefore his treatment is so effective. 99.9% of the others simply don't have the power to do that. They only do weak (excuse me: gentle ) energetic procedures because they only CAN do these because their energy isn't powerful enough to do more drastic measures! Gary's Jing can cut through your chi like a hot knife through butter...or like a surgeon's knife through your body tissue!

Ever seen in the famous John Cang videos on youtube how the little boy screams when Chang treats him with his Jing...? BECAUSE IT WORKS DRASTICALLY...as Gary's does!

Think about that!

 

It's the modern Western mindset that you can just blast out your emotional problems with brute force, which is why Western medicine tries to attack and cut out problems rather than understand and naturally heal them with compassion; if you have a personal problem attack it and destroy it, if there is a problem in the world drop bombs on it to try get rid of it, there is no subtlety involved and unsurprisingly it usually causes more problems than it solves. It's like using a big blunt instrument to try to deal with a very sensitive, complex, subtle problem.

 

The best healers do have power and force and can give people tough love and pain, but they also have great sensitivity and softness when required, like Lao Tzu said "The softest things in the world overcome the hardest" "Water overcomes stone".

[Wells]

It's the modern Western mindset that you can just blast out your emotional problems with brute force, which is why Western medicine tries to attack and cut out problems rather than understand and naturally heal them with compassion; if you have a personal problem attack it and destroy it, if there is a problem in the world drop bombs on it to try get rid of it, there is no subtlety involved and unsurprisingly it usually causes more problems than it solves. It's like using a big blunt instrument to try to deal with a very sensitive, complex, subtle problem.

 

The best healers do have power and force and can give people tough love and pain, but they also have great sensitivity and softness when required, like Lao Tzu said "The softest things in the world overcome the hardest" "Water overcomes stone".

You didn't say anything to the similar pain that John Chang's treatments cause!

The little boy screaming like hell, the "powerful electric shocks" as one of the Blair brothers said.

John and Gary use both the same "hard energy" it seems to cause drastic changes and therefore quick and full healing success.

According to your argumentation you think that John Chang is not one of the best healers also...?

BTW in Kosta's book he writes that John Chang has quite a western mindset...

[Jetsun]

You didn't say anything to the similar pain that John Chang's treatments cause!

The little boy screaming like hell, the "powerful electric shocks" as one of the Blair brothers said.

John and Gary use both the same "hard energy" it seems to cause drastic changes and therefore quick and full healing success.

According to your argumentation you think that John Chang is not one of the best healers also...?

BTW in Kosta's book he writes that John Chang has quite a western mindset...

 

Do you have a link to the video? There is a big difference between treating some physical problems and emotional problems, with physical issues you may be required to cause dramatic physical realignments in the body which may cause an enormous amount of pain and require a great deal of force from the healer, but you can't automatically take that same mindset and force when dealing with emotional problems.

[Wells]

Do you have a link to the video? There is a big difference between treating some physical problems and emotional problems, with physical issues you may be required to cause dramatic physical realignments in the body which may cause an enormous amount of pain and require a great deal of force from the healer, but you can't automatically take that same mindset and force when dealing with emotional problems.

1:09 "I was really getting powerful electric shocks!"

4:11 boy screaming like hell!

 

Are you a successful healer as Clyman as you believe to be able to judge what kind of energy is best for healing emotional problems...? BTW some patients of Clyman believe that in fact THE TRAUMA ITSELF COMING OUT causes the pain, not Clyman's Jing. That belief could get backed up by the statements that if there isn't a trauma, then Clyman's touch doesn't hurt!

That would reveal the whole matter in a different light, huh?

[Owledge]

That belief could get backed up by the statements that if there isn't a trauma, then Clyman's touch doesn't hurt!

Same thing with my (but not exclusively my) interaction with Gary. If there was no emotional issue being touched, he'd have no reason to act like an asshole or an insecure child.

There are many ways to do healing. The less conventional ones (no power-ranger show&shine) are easily overlooked.

[h.uriahr]

I cant say for sure if John Chang is actually legit but if he is then he is light years beyond Gary.

There's a clear and obvious difference between the 2.

 

The thing that needs to be understood about this is that

 

1) Gary was removed from the Temple Style school. Not on his own will. He was thrown out.

2) Gary didnt finish the training. He may tell you he did but he didnt. If you bring up certain aspects of real Tao Gong training, which is beyond neikung, he doesnt have a clue as to what you're talking about.

3) If you train exactly like Gary teaches, be it chikung or neikung, there's a good chance that you'll develop the kind of mentality, ego, that Gary has. Has anyone noticed that Liao Sifu isnt like this??

 

I've seen Gary's supposed "jing" videos and none of his videos are impressive to me. The only fah jing I've ever experienced felt like I was in a car wreck. The force was such that my ears rang and my mind fell out and I had a temporary amnesia, forgetting where I was and what I was doing then an actual fear for once because I've never experienced such power and the funny thing is that my sifu has nowhere near the power that Liao Sifu has.

 

I'm sure Gary has juice but I'd guarantee you that he is nowhere as powerful as any of the actual "Ordained" Masters in the temple style system, and I could careless if he sucks and explodes and vibrates and ups and downs etc etc for hours and hours a day for 50 yrs. That doesnt matter if you dont ever actually touch upon the tao within.

 

peace

[Owledge]

1) Gary was removed from the Temple Style school. Not on his own will. He was thrown out.

Very interesting to hear. Can you please provide all further info you have on this (details, sources, dates)?

If I remember correctly, Gary talked about how, in his Tai Chi school, he was the most ambitious student and thus was eventually given responsibility over the school in some way. Not sure about details here.

 

3) If you train exactly like Gary teaches, be it chikung or neikung, there's a good chance that you'll develop the kind of mentality, ego, that Gary has.

We have a very apparent example in this thread.

 

Has anyone noticed that Liao Sifu isnt like this??

Speaking of Waysun Liao, in case it's interesting, here is what Gary said during the seminar I attended: He badmouthed Liao, saying something about someone invited him to the USA and then he'd give students nearly nothing, stalling, taking a lot of money and artificially prolonging the process of study, and contrasted it to his teachings, where he supposedly reveals everthing right away. This impression was confirmed by one seminar attendee who apparently is a great fan of Gary. It might be correct that Liao's behavior at least appeared like that. Maybe Liao knew what he was doing, or maybe some students weren't good material (greedy, unbalanced, whatever?) and thus didn't get much from Liao. I can't provide more on the matter. I can only emphasize that Gary has an I-am-better-than-Liao standpoint and borderline-tells people that Liao is scamming students for their money.

 

I've seen Gary's supposed "jing" videos and none of his videos are impressive to me.

He did that fa jin thing with pushing someone against the fence while our group was outside. I cannot say for certain, but it felt a lot like he had no intention of demonstrating it on anybody else except that one select person, who was a fan of Gary and thus personally biased. Seemed strange to me that he had a seminar group of maybe 6-8 people there and then would pick only one person to demonstrate his skills on.

 

Little nitpicky detail: I found it weird that he charges $1000 for a seminar where he contributes relatively little effort, and then he dictates where we all were going to have lunch (it practically was part of the seminar schedule), which turned out to be a very expensive chinese restaurant where he knew the owner's family or something, and then that was not included in the price. That's somewhat bad style.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Owledge

[Green Tiger]

Same thing with my (but not exclusively my) interaction with Gary. If there was no emotional issue being touched, he'd have no reason to act like an asshole or an insecure child.

There are many ways to do healing. The less conventional ones (no power-ranger show&shine) are easily overlooked.

 

Why does he have a reason to act like an asshole or insecure child? I'm not making the connection.

 

If Clyman is even near John Chang's level, that makes him even scarier. Chang reportedly killed someone while attempting to heal them of cancer. His teacher, who could have performed such a feat, was long gone and John wasn't capable of generating the sort of power required. To me, that says that this power not only requires one to spend a long time developing its strength, but it also requires one to refine its quality as you increase the amplitude.

 

In my opinion, from second-hand accounts, Clyman's energy is almost certainly less refined than John Chang's. I have no clue about the strength of his power.

 

edit: grammar

Edited April 7, 2012 by Green Tiger

[Owledge]

Why does he have a reason to act like an asshole or insecure child? I'm not making the connection.

It's in my comments at the end of the previously linked thread:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19500-master-clymans-ppt-workshop/