Chi Kung & Emotional Lyposuction lecture by Nei Kung Master Gary J. Clyman

[Green Tiger]

I experienced some healing just watching this video.

 

Edited April 7, 2012 by Green Tiger

[Wells]

I cant say for sure if John Chang is actually legit but if he is then he is light years beyond Gary.

There's a clear and obvious difference between the 2.

 

The thing that needs to be understood about this is that

 

1) Gary was removed from the Temple Style school. Not on his own will. He was thrown out.

2) Gary didnt finish the training. He may tell you he did but he didnt. If you bring up certain aspects of real Tao Gong training, which is beyond neikung, he doesnt have a clue as to what you're talking about.

3) If you train exactly like Gary teaches, be it chikung or neikung, there's a good chance that you'll develop the kind of mentality, ego, that Gary has. Has anyone noticed that Liao Sifu isnt like this??

 

I've seen Gary's supposed "jing" videos and none of his videos are impressive to me. The only fah jing I've ever experienced felt like I was in a car wreck. The force was such that my ears rang and my mind fell out and I had a temporary amnesia, forgetting where I was and what I was doing then an actual fear for once because I've never experienced such power and the funny thing is that my sifu has nowhere near the power that Liao Sifu has.

 

I'm sure Gary has juice but I'd guarantee you that he is nowhere as powerful as any of the actual "Ordained" Masters in the temple style system, and I could careless if he sucks and explodes and vibrates and ups and downs etc etc for hours and hours a day for 50 yrs. That doesnt matter if you dont ever actually touch upon the tao within.

 

peace

Yeah? I think it's strange that Liao did teach in the 70's exactly what Gary teaches today...according to Liao's first book tai chi classsics! This martial teaching produced Liao's old school students that have all incredible Martial Arts abilities (as far as I read in the net)! Today, Liao and his master students who teach in his branch schools (like supposedly your master and the master of dwai) teach only these so called "tao gong" exercises. I have some of these tao gong exercises on DVD like drain, compress and charge. These are exercises that I found almost exactly the same in several other tai chi books including Mantak Chia! Show me ONE student who got the Jing with only these exercises by himself WITHOUT Liao charging his dantian up (as he did to Gregory James. Edit: According to what I read on Gregory's own wbsite!). According to these tao gong DVD's it seems to me that you have always to be neuroticly scared that your energy gets polluted through your environment...then you have to clean quickly your energy with these exercises. Sounds to me as if your energy gets more and more fragile and not more solid through these tao gong stuff! Gary told me that he doesn't understand how someone as good as Liao does produce such bad DVD's.

I found in forums similar opinions like mine. One guy said that that all the old school guys learned the true stuff and that they all got great martial arts ability and that today's student's of Liao seem "to live in a fairy land" as he called it and that they don't have these martial abilities!

I found it again, read here comment #229 :

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67552&page=16

I have met at least a dozen or more of Liaos's students including those who have been practicing for over 30 years. It looks like this to me:

20 years ago or more he was teaching good stuff. I haven't seen any students who have been with him for less than 10-15 years who have in significant skill. Some of the older guys are really good and really nice. I know the training is very different than it used to be, because the older guys told me so.

The newer students seem to be way way off in some fantasy land. The older ones seem to have some base in reality. I don't think Liao actually teaches any Taichi anymore. If he does, just barely. It's all student teaching.

 

I think anyone with a solid six months of Jiujitsu could take out virtually any of the students who have less than ten years of taichi practice under there belts.

 

Even the guys who have been with him for over 20 years still say he hasn't given them everything which is very interesting since Liao himself was in training for less than 10.

 

I have touched hands in a teaching environment with Liao about half a dozen times. He is really really good! And, yes soft like a willow. Truely amazing. Very powerful.

 

To Liao, from his mouth, as I understood him say it, the purpose of taichi is to purify and return to the Mother, the Dao itself. I believe that is true.

 

It is also a nice excuse for students who don't want to face reality. They can just pretend that their taichi is good because they are "returning to the Dao." When someone puts them on the ground or into the wall they can respond with "That was really physical," or "Taichi is not a martial art," or any other nonsense that will help them justify the fact that they don't have anything to show for their training. I feel really sad for them. Especially because Liao is so good.

 

So, it's quite obvious that your teacher most likely got his power from the Nei Kung stuff...the same stuff that gave Gary his power...THE SAME STUFF THAT MOST LIKELY GAVE LIAO HIS POWER (+ he got "powered up" by his Master's force as new head of the Tai Chi Tao Temple!)!!!

 

The Nei Kung is the highest teaching, not the Tao Kung! That's beginners stuff that even Mantak Chia teaches in his books!

Let's say I was "quite surprised" when I found the "highest" Tao Kung charge Up exercise almost identical in this Mantak Chia book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Inner-Structure-Tai-Chi/dp/1594770581/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1333814270&sr=8-3

So Mantak chia charged up his TE already...? He is surely known for his abilities, ha!

 

The big question is: Why isn't Liao teaching the true Nei Kung anymore, but only this beginners stuff?

 

I tell you something, friend, you will be quite surprised when you have in fact the "right personality" that will bring you through the whole system so your teacher doesn't stop to give you step by step the better stuff then you will be quite surprised to get as big finish the Nei Kung stuff at the very end, that Gary teaches in the very beginning!!!

Maybe he was thrown out because he didn't play by the rules and teaches the true stuff to anyone even if he didn't go through the whole beginners tai chi and tao gong stuff...?

 

Edit: Your obvious opinion that you get "the real stuff" in the very beginning in a CHINESE temple school is RIDICOULOUS! In the 70's, the school hd not the inflow of people that it has NOW in the USA.

Now they have to be more careful who to give the true good stuff! Read page 46 of Liao's Tai Chi Classics and you know WHY he is going this way TODAY:

T'ai Chi Masters traditionally taught their students to use meditative practice to develop chi awareness. Such a training program would require a longer period of time to complete than other methods; in this way the master would have time to observe the student's attitude and personality and determine whether or not to continue the program of instruction. Otherwise, the student could develop ch'i awareness for unacceptable reasons, such as poor attitude, ego, or wanting to be stronger than others. If such motivations emerged, the teacher would discontinue instruction without giving the student such key techniques as condensing breathing, which is the main process used to convert ch'i into internal power.

Voila, the words of the master himself! What does that mean? You don't need a genius level IQ (which I have) to understand these words: When Liao came in young years to the USA he firstly broke with the tradition and taught the highest Nei Kung stuff rather quickly and even wrote a book (tai chi classics) about the TRUE principles in his system. NOW, he returned out of reasons that only he knows (I already said my opinion why) to this TRADITIONAL way of teaching...where the true Nei Kung stuff comes last! Edited April 9, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Owledge]

The Nei Kung is the highest teaching, not the Tao Kung! That's beginners stuff that even Mantak Chia teaches in his books!

...

The big question is: Why isn't Liao teaching the true Nei Kung anymore, but only this beginners stuff?

...

I tell you something, friend, you will be quite surprised when you have in fact the "right personality" that will bring you through the whole system so your teacher doesn't stop to give you step by step the better stuff then you will be quite surprised to get as big finish the Nei Kung stuff at the very end, that Gary teaches in the very beginning!!!

Maybe he was thrown out because he didn't play by the rules and teaches the true stuff to anyone even if he didn't go through the whole beginners tai chi and tao gong stuff...?

Very apparent approach here. Calling the Tao Kung beginner stuff and the Nei Kung "true". I can imagine why Liao changed his approach. Maybe because of the way his old students developed. It is almost common wisdom that in order to responsibly handle raw power, you first have to cultivate character. Yang and Yin are equal. You are basically calling Yang true and Yin beginner stuff. That is very immature, but totally understandable in our society. You are right that students might resort to excuses when they are 'beaten', but that shows that they have the same holes in understanding.

So when Liao teaches the Nei Kung at the very end, that sounds very responsible or rightfully careful to me.

So there's a lack of basic understanding of the eastern approach - about balance. You don't purify by building resistance against impurity. You do it by not needing any resistance, because that which is impure cannot enter that which is pure.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Owledge

[Wells]

Very apparent approach here. Calling the Tao Kung beginner stuff and the Nei Kung "true". I can imagine why Liao changed his approach. Maybe because of the way his old students developed. It is almost common wisdom that in order to responsibly handle raw power, you first have to cultivate character.

So it's all Gary's fault!!!!

Haha, but at least you STILL can get the true stuff from HIM (but no more in the US brach schools of the taichi tao temple).

[h.uriahr]

Very interesting to hear. Can you please provide all further info you have on this (details, sources, dates)?

If I remember correctly, Gary talked about how, in his Tai Chi school, he was the most ambitious student and thus was eventually given responsibility over the school in some way. Not sure about details here.

 

 

We have a very apparent example in this thread.

 

 

Speaking of Waysun Liao, in case it's interesting, here is what Gary said during the seminar I attended: He badmouthed Liao, saying something about someone invited him to the USA and then he'd give students nearly nothing, stalling, taking a lot of money and artificially prolonging the process of study, and contrasted it to his teachings, where he supposedly reveals everthing right away. This impression was confirmed by one seminar attendee who apparently is a great fan of Gary. It might be correct that Liao's behavior at least appeared like that. Maybe Liao knew what he was doing, or maybe some students weren't good material (greedy, unbalanced, whatever?) and thus didn't get much from Liao. I can't provide more on the matter. I can only emphasize that Gary has an I-am-better-than-Liao standpoint and borderline-tells people that Liao is scamming students for their money.

 

 

He did that fa jin thing with pushing someone against the fence while our group was outside. I cannot say for certain, but it felt a lot like he had no intention of demonstrating it on anybody else except that one select person, who was a fan of Gary and thus personally biased. Seemed strange to me that he had a seminar group of maybe 6-8 people there and then would pick only one person to demonstrate his skills on.

 

Little nitpicky detail: I found it weird that he charges $1000 for a seminar where he contributes relatively little effort, and then he dictates where we all were going to have lunch (it practically was part of the seminar schedule), which turned out to be a very expensive chinese restaurant where he knew the owner's family or something, and then that was not included in the price. That's somewhat bad style.

 

 

I didnt ask for dates or anything like that. When I met with my Sifu I asked him if he had heard of Gary Clyman and he said yes. He said he kicked him out of his class. He said that Gary was bounced to a few teachers in the system and then when he got to him he threw him out. Gary was in the system for something like 2-3 years if I remember correctly. I'd really rather not go into the details of how or why. My Sifu isnt hard to find if you google search Waysun Liao on google images. You'll find my Sifu's website I'm sure. Here's a hint, he was the first named Master by Liao here in the US.

 

He also said that alot of his material is bullshit. Not that it wasnt effective but that it's not the end all and that it's easy to get stuck in martial ability. Clyman reached the neikung portion of his training I'm sure of that. He didnt reach the real core of tai chi however.

 

If you read Gary's site he says that "He had many sessions with Liao and that he always answered his questions". He didnt say that "he always gave me proper corrections and advice". Gary's head is too large for this forum. I thought about attending a seminar but then decided to delve deeper into the temple style system itself and do some research. For the average everyday guy, Gary is fine but if you want a deep spiritual path then forget it. Find an actual Ordained Master.

 

Gary is missing a few things.

1) Gary doesnt get you involved in flow training. Flow your chi to grow your chi. That's very very important.

2) Gary cant give you real Tao Gong. I've ran through his dvd about 30 times thinking that I missed something (Dorian black said I did so I looked) and I've found nothing. Unless Dorian is thinking his hyper speed MCO or Left Right vibration is Tao work then I guess if GARY wants to call it Tao Gong then by all means, but it's not really Tao Gong.

 

About the jing. I'm sure Gary can push really far and that's great and everything but real fah jing, from the spirit, is devestating.

[h.uriahr]

So it's all Gary's fault!!!!

Haha, but at least you STILL can get the true stuff from HIM (but no more in the US brach schools of the taichi tao temple).

 

Do you have any of Liao Sifu's Private Invitation material?

[Wells]

Do you have any of Liao Sifu's Private Invitation material?

It's nice how you simply chose to ignore my post before that one..

Too unpleasing for you to deal with what I said there, eh?

 

 

No, I have none of the Private invitation material! I think I am the kind of guy who would get "kicked out" even faster than Gary because of my big demanding ego...what only means that my own interests come BEFORE any school! Gary even encourages his students to develop your ego and personality and that you get what you want! Great guy!

But I know all the descriptions of the private invitation DVD's on Liao's website....it's NO Nei Kung stuff and therefore not of interest if you already have all the highest temple style stuff from Gary! Certainly, it depends on what is "the highest stuff" in one's opinion. In my opinion it's the stuff that helps me to make my energy stronger, denser it's vibration faster, getting it under my control, making it so strong that it will survive death! Developing personal power! Than Gary's stuff is the best!

If you have the opinion that concentrating ("feeling") into the cosmos and letting Earth suck "unclean" energy out of you that you are to weak to deal with it yourself and letting your "TE" control yourself and believing that your energy belongs to the Tao, your TE, God or whatever and that you have give your self up...then the stuff YOU are promoting is best!

Good luck for you with your stuff...!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[dwai]

http://www.ourmanly.com.au/Business/Edward_De_Bono_Thinking_Club.aspx

 

 

 

http://www.edwdebono.com/cort.htm

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_de_Bono

 

Nice points. I often run into type A++ personalities with oversized egos from their high iqs...what they often lack is the ability to empathize...emotional intelligence. What good is pure IQ if you cant understand another person's perspective? Having been a teacher if professional training in the past, first thing i pearnt is to leave my iq outside the class...i had to get myself to the iq of the students...and often to that of the weakest student. Life is also like that isnt it? How can we make meaningful interactions if we talk down to each ther all the time?

[dwai]

I cant say for sure if John Chang is actually legit but if he is then he is light years beyond Gary.

There's a clear and obvious difference between the 2.

 

The thing that needs to be understood about this is that

 

1) Gary was removed from the Temple Style school. Not on his own will. He was thrown out.

2) Gary didnt finish the training. He may tell you he did but he didnt. If you bring up certain aspects of real Tao Gong training, which is beyond neikung, he doesnt have a clue as to what you're talking about.

3) If you train exactly like Gary teaches, be it chikung or neikung, there's a good chance that you'll develop the kind of mentality, ego, that Gary has. Has anyone noticed that Liao Sifu isnt like this??

 

I've seen Gary's supposed "jing" videos and none of his videos are impressive to me. The only fah jing I've ever experienced felt like I was in a car wreck. The force was such that my ears rang and my mind fell out and I had a temporary amnesia, forgetting where I was and what I was doing then an actual fear for once because I've never experienced such power and the funny thing is that my sifu has nowhere near the power that Liao Sifu has.

 

I'm sure Gary has juice but I'd guarantee you that he is nowhere as powerful as any of the actual "Ordained" Masters in the temple style system, and I could careless if he sucks and explodes and vibrates and ups and downs etc etc for hours and hours a day for 50 yrs. That doesnt matter if you dont ever actually touch upon the tao within.

 

peace

 

Being a student master liao's lineage, i can agree with you. My teacher is the most understated man i ave met and he is very compassionate...teaches us to cook the energy ourselves instead of jolting us with blasts....its all about nourishing the qi...finding the Te. And there are no shortcuts...what we invest in training will determine what we get back.

 

Tai chi, tao gong is about self discovery...self refinement. How can we gt there without doing it ourselves?

[h.uriahr]

It's nice how you simply chose to ignore my post before that one..

Too unpleasing for you to deal with what I said there, eh?

 

 

No, I have none of the Private invitation material! I think I am the kind of guy who would get "kicked out" even faster than Gary because of my big demanding ego...what only means that my own interests come BEFORE any school! Gary even encourages his students to develop your ego and personality and that you get what you want! Great guy!

But I know all the descriptions of the private invitation DVD's on Liao's website....it's NO Nei Kung stuff and therefore not of interest if you already have all the highest temple style stuff from Gary! Certainly, it depends on what is "the highest stuff" in one's opinion. In my opinion it's the stuff that helps me to make my energy stronger, denser it's vibration faster, getting it under my control, making it so strong that it will survive death! Developing personal power! Than Gary's stuff is the best!

If you have the opinion that concentrating ("feeling") into the cosmos and letting Earth suck "unclean" energy out of you that you are to weak to deal with it yourself and letting your "TE" control yourself and believing that your energy belongs to the Tao, your TE, God or whatever and that you have give your self up...then the stuff YOU are promoting is best!

Good luck for you with your stuff...!

My point about the DVDs was that there are a few of them that give real Tao gong meds. The only reference you have is what Gary has fed you. Good luck with your practice.

[Wells]

My point about the DVDs was that there are a few of them that give real Tao gong meds. The only reference you have is what Gary has fed you. Good luck with your practice.

Not true! I have several of Liao's DVD's that are available to anyone, for example the How to Restore Your Life Energy - 2 Disc Set. The charge up form that YOUR teachers fed YOU (I know MORE people from your lineage, you know!) that it's the original exercise to regrow your TE until it's so big that it's an aura of 3 feet around you.

Dude, without developing your OWN inner power through Nei Kung, how will you be able to reach out, to communicate with the cosmos and bring that energy into your self? Answer: You CAN'T! You can't reach out without having developed jing! It's ridicolous! Go on, play with your tai chi ball (that does only exist in your imagination) and let it fill the whole universe! You don't have an energy all between your hands that can fill the whole universe to communicate with it! That's only imagination!

It's beyond me why you don't get that!

[h.uriahr]

Not true! I have several of Liao's DVD's that are available to anyone, for example the How to Restore Your Life Energy - 2 Disc Set. The charge up form that YOUR teachers fed YOU (I know MORE people from your lineage, you know!) that it's the original exercise to regrow your TE until it's so big that it's an aura of 3 feet around you.

Dude, without developing your OWN inner power through Nei Kung, how will you be able to reach out, to communicate with the cosmos and bring that energy into your self? Answer: You CAN'T! You can't reach out without having developed jing! It's ridicolous! Go on, play with your tai chi ball (that does only exist in your imagination) and let it fill the whole universe! You don't have an energy all between your hands that can fill the whole universe to communicate with it! That's only imagination!

It's beyond me why you don't get that!

Atleast one of us has it figured out

[Wells]

Atleast one of us has it figured out

Have you already developed jing through your Tao Gong and without the Nei Kung exercises?

One of your buddies maybe?

[Owledge]

Certainly, it depends on what is "the highest stuff" in one's opinion. In my opinion it's the stuff that helps me to make my energy stronger, denser it's vibration faster, getting it under my control, making it so strong that it will survive death!

It might seem like that, but maybe you are adapting your personality out of desire for power, and that makes the power control you. You will become an instrument of power. (And most hopelessly enslaved are those who falsely believe they are free.)

Strange concept... the energy surviving death. Or are you confusing the energy with a part of yourself? Your ego won't survive death, so why bother? Power will be the laughing winner and the slave dies. Power translates into control. Desire for control is rooted in fear. Fear is a function of the egoic mind.

More influence in the physical realm might be useful for your life, but as things go for you right now, when you die your personality will be so much attached to and dependant on power that it will freak out and shatter. (Your identity will die if it believes it has died because there is nothing left.) If you really want to practice for making a part of you prevail after death, you should practice for that moment. There are means for inducing fake death experiences (purely in your head). You will totally freak out, be scared shitless. Keep practicing until that doesn't happen anymore. Will be tough, though, because it requires surrender - Tao Gong, haha.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Owledge

[Wells]

He also said that alot of his material is bullshit.

When you campare Liao's Tai Chi Classics book to Gary's Nei Kung system, you'll find that both systems are exactly the same.

So Liao was teaching bullshit in the 70's???

 

Not that it wasnt effective but that it's not the end all and that it's easy to get stuck in martial ability.

"stuck"? If your Tao Gong is so much better then I guees everybody of you guys achieves the Jing already in the first year of Tao Gong, n'est-ce pas?

How many of your student buddies already got it?

 

 

Gary is missing a few things.

1) Gary doesnt get you involved in flow training. Flow your chi to grow your chi. That's very very important.

1) According to Liao's book "Chi: Discovering Your Life Energy" you develop through the tai chi forms flow training chi awareness. Your chi awareness grows, not the chi itself. Liao even states HIMSELF in the Tai Chi Classics book that chi awareness can be developed much faster through belly breathing exercises and that "flow" training through moving meditation isn't as effective as the breathing exercises! Read the EDIT of the post of mine that you keep ignoring!

 

2) I've heard guys from your school that "flowing through tao" would actually BUILD UP chi. If that's really possible through such a passive exercise then it's logic that active SUCKING IN of energy "from the Tao" (=your surroundings) builds up even much more chi. Gary teaches Condensing Breathing as FIRST exercise....how about your Tao Gong Course? Did you learn that exercise there already...?

 

 

 

Gary cant give you real Tao Gong. I've ran through his dvd about 30 times thinking that I missed something (Dorian black said I did so I looked) and I've found nothing.

True...if you call Tao Gong what I've seen on Liao's DVD's.

In my opinion, active heaven and earth breathing and condensing breathing deserve much more the name Tao Gong (reason: see above!)

 

Unless Dorian is thinking his hyper speed MCO or Left Right vibration is Tao work then I guess if GARY wants to call it Tao Gong then by all means, but it's not really Tao Gong.

Speeding up the frequenzy of the vibration that you create inside yourself through Nei Kung to the "speed of light"....TO THE FREQUENZY OF THE TAO ITSELF! Hmmm...what could happen if you match your own vibration with that of the tao...? It seems your teachers haven't taught you all of the highest secrets, young Jedi, eh?

Real Tao Gong? Yes!

 

About the jing. I'm sure Gary can push really far and that's great and everything but real fah jing, from the spirit, is devestating.

What you call from the spirit is "distance power". Liao states in Tai Chi Classics that you can develop distance power (=broadcast Jing through space) by refining your vibratuion enough. As the book is about Temple Style Nei Kung, it suggests that you can develop distance power through the outlined methods, which means through Gary's methods. As far as I know, Gary hasn't developed that yet...but according to Liao it can be developed through Nei Kung what means through Gary's system.

 

I read several times in forums in the net that Gary's long time students CAN discharge jing AND have Golden Bell.

How many long time tao gong students have that...?

Edited April 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[dwai]

Not true! I have several of Liao's DVD's that are available to anyone, for example the How to Restore Your Life Energy - 2 Disc Set. The charge up form that YOUR teachers fed YOU (I know MORE people from your lineage, you know!) that it's the original exercise to regrow your TE until it's so big that it's an aura of 3 feet around you.

Dude, without developing your OWN inner power through Nei Kung, how will you be able to reach out, to communicate with the cosmos and bring that energy into your self? Answer: You CAN'T! You can't reach out without having developed jing! It's ridicolous! Go on, play with your tai chi ball (that does only exist in your imagination) and let it fill the whole universe! You don't have an energy all between your hands that can fill the whole universe to communicate with it! That's only imagination!

It's beyond me why you don't get that!

 

 

There are so many layers to this onion that each layer you peel back take you back to the beginning...first you focus on form...then generate a tai chi ball....that also helps build your chi...feel it inside and outside. You also develop your sensitvity and your dan tien. Then your dan tien moves you...and the tai chi ball...then you refine...it is slow and imo,ime it is a result of us setting barriers by imagining and expecting some "state" but the memnt we fixate we lose the "real" thing...

 

The secret to learning tai chi as a martial art is in the tai chi ball...compressing the ball condenses your energy...expanding it expands your energy. It becomes your radar...helps you feel outside andi inside...change in energies...shifts, movements...

 

It is also the scret to learning healing...no point talking about tao gong before that...

[Wells]

It might seem like that, but maybe you are adapting your personality out of desire for power, and that makes the power control you. You will become an instrument of power. (And most hopelessly enslaved are those who falsely believe they are free.)

Hmmm...? That's philosophy, not reality!

 

Strange concept... the energy surviving death. Or are you confusing the energy with a part of yourself?

According to Liao's DVD "TE" your energy creates your Yi/mind/personality. If your energy/chi burns out, your personality ceases to exist. That's what happens when you die. The TE in your dantian is the source of your chi. So fill up your dantian again and again through condensing outside energy into your spine or dantian and it doesn't burn out! Liao states that in his relatively new book "Nine Nights with the Taoist Master". That's what you are doing through condensing breathing. Wait a minute, if that exercise is of such an incredible importance, why doesn't he teach it in his Tao Gong? Strange strange, more unanswered questions for h.uriahr (or any other Tao Gong guy)!!! :lol:

 

Your ego won't survive death, so why bother?

Because you are only your Ego/mind/self/yi! At least it's my opinion and I stated this already 100 times in this forum!

 

 

Power will be the laughing winner and the slave dies. Power translates into control. Desire for control is rooted in fear. Fear is a function of the egoic mind.

Sure, fear is my drive! I'm well aware how I tick and not ashamed of that! All you need is a strong drive to endure the demanding training day after day. It doesn't matter what that is. The Tao Gong guys certainly have another opinion...I mean they LEARNED another opinion!

...but we all know what Yoda said to Anakin concerning fear, right?

 

 

More influence in the physical realm might be useful for your life, but as things go for you right now, when you die your personality will be so much attached to and dependant on power that it will freak out and shatter. (Your identity will die if it believes it has died because there is nothing left.) If you really want to practice for making a part of you prevail after death, you should practice for that moment. There are means for inducing fake death experiences (purely in your head). You will totally freak out, be scared shitless. Keep practicing until that doesn't happen anymore. Will be tough, though, because it requires surrender - Tao Gong, haha.

I died already 1.000 times in my mind. I know how it supposedly will feel when my personality will shatter.

[Protector]

Sometimes... I just like to sit here... and just listen you guys tell me how actually strong I am

[Owledge]

According to Liao's DVD "TE" your energy creates your Yi/mind/personality. If your energy/chi burns out, your personality ceases to exist. That's what happens when you die. The TE in your dantian is the source of your chi. So fill up your dantian again and again through condensing outside energy into your spine or dantian and it doesn't burn out! Liao states that in his relatively new book "Nine Nights with the Taoist Master". That's what you are doing through condensing breathing. Wait a minute, if that exercise is of such an incredible importance, why doesn't he teach it in his Tao Gong? Strange strange, more unanswered questions for h.uriahr (or any other Tao Gong guy)!!! :lol:

From these very words, nothing implies that cultivating that energy will make you prevail after death. It says that you will prolong your life. Like: If your energy burns out, you die. If you cultivate it more, you live longer.

 

I died already 1.000 times in my mind. I know how it supposedly will feel when my personality will shatter.

Can you give a correct instead of a made up figure about that? What method(s) did you use to make that experience?

[Wells]

 

There are so many layers to this onion that each layer you peel back take you back to the beginning...first you focus on form...then generate a tai chi ball....that also helps build your chi...feel it inside and outside. You also develop your sensitvity and your dan tien. Then your dan tien moves you...and the tai chi ball...then you refine...it is slow and imo,ime it is a result of us setting barriers by imagining and expecting some "state" but the memnt we fixate we lose the "real" thing...

 

The secret to learning tai chi as a martial art is in the tai chi ball...compressing the ball condenses your energy...expanding it expands your energy. It becomes your radar...helps you feel outside andi inside...change in energies...shifts, movements...

 

It is also the scret to learning healing...no point talking about tao gong before that...

 

Dude, you are a surely nice guy who wants to help and I wish you the best for your training progress!

 

I can only talk from my personal POW. When I trained with Gary's Nei Kung only for a short time, I woke up at night and felt one vibration jump between the bones of my left and of my right leg jumping back and forth and felt the microcosmic orbit or a vibration in my backbone jump up and down and actually felt it bumping against the crown point of my head. The vibration was quite hard, sharp and quick. I stood up and it all was still there. I heard a loud hum in my head also. It was around 2 at night, I stood up and emailed Gary because I was a little concerned. Gary wrote back IN 30 SECONDS (!!!) and told me that that's all normal, he had that too and I shouldn't be concerned and simply go on training!

Gary is a great guy, his system works, you have good progress from the beginning and therefore I'm absolutely enthusiastic about his system and his personality! Also, you get all at once and don't need to wait years to learn condensing breathing or so! This are MY PERSONAL GREAT EXPERIENCES with Gary and no matter what other people talk bad about him, I KNOW better! Just for the record!

Regularly, I feel and hear the vibration (I could go so far now that my vibration "is talking to me" ) and my dantian is hopping around during practice that it shakes my whole body.

So much to results with Clyman's great Nei Kung DVD's.

 

Concerning Liao's DVD's especially "How to restore your Life Energy" and it's so called important basic Tao Gong exercises: I tried them for weeks and felt nothing at all! Maybe a little trembling in dantian and the typical disturbed blood flow caused tingling in the arms during the charge up form for example. No vibration at all!

 

Excuse me, but these are my personal experiences and nobody can discuss that away!

 

If Tao Gong works for you then I wish you the best and further progress, but it didn't work for me!

 

.no point talking about tao gong before that...

I got that! But I have also many other DVD's from Liao and I trained already quite some time tai chi ball exercises from his "tai chi and martial arts seminar" DVD set (and felt nothing with that too!)! So at least SOMETHING could have happened IMO.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

From these very words, nothing implies that cultivating that energy will make you prevail after death. It says that you will prolong your life. Like: If your energy burns out, you die. If you cultivate it more, you live longer.

Liao is more clear about that in the book.

Also, you know what John Chang says about filling dantian and conserving personality after death...? If not, this forum is FULL of it!

 

Can you give a correct instead of a made up figure about that? What method(s) did you use to make that experience?

Just my intuition and imagination.

[Wells]

Sometimes... I just like to sit here... and just listen you guys tell me how actually strong I am

Good for you, go on then!

[Owledge]

I can only talk from my personal POW.

POV = point of view

POW = prisoner of war

Let him gooo!!!

 

I died already 1.000 times in my mind. I know how it supposedly will feel when my personality will shatter.

--->

Just my intuition and imagination.

O-keeeey ... Are you aware that imagining death and experiencing it is somewhat different? I don't mean dying in your mind, I mean your mind dying. If you don't feel reborn and changed afterwards, it's not the real thing and not preparation. It's like claiming you learned to play football by reading the results in the newspaper.

It really has some entertainment value to see those two quotes together.

Keep experimenting though. It's all part of life and we are learning in every moment.

[Wells]

POV = point of view

POW = prisoner of war

Let him gooo!!!

 

O-keeeey ... Are you aware that imagining death and experiencing it is somewhat different? I don't mean dying in your mind, I mean your mind dying. If you don't feel reborn and changed afterwards, it's not the real thing and not preparation. It's like claiming you learned to play football by reading the results in the newspaper.

It really has some entertainment value to see those two quotes together.

Keep experimenting though. It's all part of life and we are learning in every moment.

The mind dies everytime at night in deep sleep for some time. A long time ago I was some time into nothingness-meditation. One could say that the mind dies then too, if you are succesful.

Well, death means final end of my conscious mind existence and for me it's all about changing that. At least I get my ass up and maybe die trying instead of just fatalisticly waiting to die...and falsely believing myself strong because I simply can't understand death!

[h.uriahr]

I bowed out because this whole argument is going nowhere.

 

My last thought. Good luck on your journey and I wish you the best.