Censorship in the pain thread...

[Owledge]

I reckon a lot of it comes from people's own (misguided?) ideas about what 'high-level' people are supposed to be like. I know that TTB's has really changed that for me. And I don't think it's a 'bad' thing.

Be aware that my actions were not motivated by that view. I would have made the same recommendations to anybody else who acted that way. The fact that Ya Mu's behavior coincides with him being an energy healer simply added to the curiosity of the whole situation. He is presenting his profession and making claims that then, in interpersonal relations, apparently don't hold water. If you advertise stuff, you have to expect public scrutiny. I can understand why he is on that quest against adversity in the first place, if his behavior in the pain thread is the way he deals with critics elsewhere. Also, I am not out on a mission, but merely tried to help someone eliminate a source of stress to the best of my understanding, and the response was provocative and practically asking for trouble. If someone can't see themselves in the mirror and keep pounding on it, don't blame the mirror. Sometimes people will eventually recognize their own picture in it, sometimes not. Sometimes the denial is so elaborate that it looks like I was able to help, and then of course my following actions based on that deception/misunderstanding cause further dissonance.

 

P.S.: Still no info on the advertising question.

"Pain Killer Sales Soar - Why not try Medical Qigong - Medical Qigong instead of Narcotics" is clearly an advertising thread. We should have a right to know whether 'covert' advertising schemes are being supported by the forum.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Owledge

[Apech]

...

 

P.S.: Still no info on the advertising question.

"Pain Killer Sales Soar - Why not try Medical Qigong - Medical Qigong instead of Narcotics" is clearly an advertising thread. We should have a right to know whether 'covert' advertising schemes are being supported by the forum.

 

That thread is quoting a newspaper article and then just poses questions about the promotion of medical qi gong. It seems to me to be a reasonable topic for debate. It is not spam or a direct commercial approach to people. There is paid advertising on this site but if like me you have adblocker or similar you will not see it. Apart from that people are free to link to or promote within reasonable discussion their particular practice or school etc. in fact links are one of the more useful things about TBs.

 

There are no covert advertising schemes on TBs. None. OK?

[Aetherous]

It's nice to have teachers and students of various schools come here and share info. What else should we discuss at this forum if not our practice? It's a great way for new people to see that something is happening, and get moving forward with their path...rather than just discussing eachother's egos or whatever.

[Friend]

 

P.S.: Still no info on the advertising question.

"Pain Killer Sales Soar - Why not try Medical Qigong - Medical Qigong instead of Narcotics" is clearly an advertising thread. We should have a right to know whether 'covert' advertising schemes are being supported by the forum.

 

Indeed, still it is not for a particular school.

You still have others like those by Jerry Alan Johnson, Chunyi Lin, Guo Bingsen etc,

and not only Michael Lomax and Kempomaster.

 

Again anyone who comes from a lineage, school or teaching will talk about theirs

and say what they are good at. It is unlikely to hear what is worse.

So the Buddhist will advertise their ways on their ways quoting the buddhist sutras

the medical qigong their cases as they do something with healing others.

 

It is very human thing to want other to do the same because one like it whatever reasons it is. Each one want his "Pai" to expand. You always sell something even it is not money one gain.

 

An ethical one do this without attacking other schools. We know the old story about

to kick out the other schools when one do Wushu. "My master is better than yours"

and this is in Vietnam normal 40 years ago that two shops fight each other in the shops with knife and staff and 5 on 1. So as long you not bully someone to an extend to cause defamation then it is OK in my opinion.

[Birch]

Be aware that my actions were not motivated by that view. I would have made the same recommendations to anybody else who acted that way. The fact that Ya Mu's behavior coincides with him being an energy healer simply added to the curiosity of the whole situation. He is presenting his profession and making claims that then, in interpersonal relations, apparently don't hold water. If you advertise stuff, you have to expect public scrutiny. I can understand why he is on that quest against adversity in the first place, if his behavior in the pain thread is the way he deals with critics elsewhere. Also, I am not out on a mission, but merely tried to help someone eliminate a source of stress to the best of my understanding, and the response was provocative and practically asking for trouble. If someone can't see themselves in the mirror and keep pounding on it, don't blame the mirror. Sometimes people will eventually recognize their own picture in it, sometimes not. Sometimes the denial is so elaborate that it looks like I was able to help, and then of course my following actions based on that deception/misunderstanding cause further dissonance.

 

P.S.: Still no info on the advertising question.

"Pain Killer Sales Soar - Why not try Medical Qigong - Medical Qigong instead of Narcotics" is clearly an advertising thread. We should have a right to know whether 'covert' advertising schemes are being supported by the forum.

 

I stated what my motivation was in the original thread.

I came up with the idea I posted today about it after mulling it over and discussing it with someone else some time later.

[Aaron]

I wanted to voice my disappointment as someone who only reads on this forum and usually doesnt contribute. It is a real shame to see so many threads getting off topic because different members have to play out their own little mind games. I know how tempting it is to "just" say what you think and that is your right, its just sad that a lot of teachers, who are only human, stop posting here because of that. We might say: look this teacher is getting angry, how can he be a spiritual person. just because we think we know how a spiritual person should behave. I also know how hard it is to find ones own way amidst such powerful teachers as their realizations might intimidate us and in an attempt to find our own way without being influenced we push them away. And I experienced that not in the comfortable position behind my computer screen on an internet forum but in a monastery in the chinese mountains and believe me the monks there were much less forgiving for such an attitude than Michael is here for example. That doesnt mean they hold any power over you, but you might have pissed off a teacher that you could have learnt a lot from and if not you, maybe someone else. And I think the teachers that are still here have a really great tolerance to continue contributing amidst such butting of heads.

 

I don't think people should be discouraged from asking questions, just because someone has status. In fact a person's demeanor is one of the things I examine before I accept them as a teacher. I have never claimed to be a teacher, but I am by far not a novice either. I have been practicing meditation and hypnosis for over 20 years and I have taught it in the past. Many people aren't interested in my form of practice because the only thing I can honestly offer someone is peace, contentment, and a greater awareness from my method. I don't promise special powers, nor do I promise they will live longer or be able to heal other people. I also don't charge anything for my lessons, they've always been free.

 

I led a weekly class on meditation and self-hypnosis for a year and never got paid a dime for it, nor did I ask for any money, for me it was a form of service and giving back what I've learned to others. If someone is paid for their teaching, that's fine, but I wasn't in need of money at the time and didn't see it as a career choice, so I chose to be altruistic.

 

Now with that said, I don't go around seeking students either, because when a student is ready, they will present themselves, more often than not. When people have needed my help, I've always been happy to help them. I am not, by the way, a master, nor do I consider myself a master, I'm just simply making a point that many of the people here could be teachers, and that simply because someone claims to be a teacher should not garner them any more respect then anyone else. People need to earn respect.

 

Anyways, I understand what you're saying. I sometimes feel sorry that we lost 5E, he was a font of knowledge and because of petty bickering about lineage, was lost. Anyways, no use crying over the past, we still have many great people here and I don't see them leaving anytime soon.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

People need to earn respect.

 

The kind of 'earn it' idea you just suggested makes it very easy to justify not giving respect to other people. Of course no-one is saying you, Twinner, 'have to' respect people, but that would be your call to kick off with. In which case, no justification required. Given I'm a contrary animal, I'd probably jump through your 'earn it' hoops backwards not to do it

[Marblehead]

Yes we certainly know that you folks do not personally like me.

Well, I like you, damn it!, and don't you ever forget it!!!

[Marblehead]

Love to all in here.

Same back at cha' Scotty!

[Marblehead]

 

4. I bashed my thumb with a hammer yesterday ...

 

That was dumb. (No, I am not going to tell you how many times I have done the same thing.)

[Marblehead]

Given I'm a contrary animal, I'd probably jump through your 'earn it' hoops backwards not to do it

Hehehe. There is no doubt in my mind that that is a truth.

[Taomeow]

By the way, advertizing that relates to the subject matter of this forum is allowed without having to be paid for. The mods were told by the owner it's cool to let people advertize their (or someone else's) schools, systems, masters, services, etc. -- and therefore have neither the authority nor the reason to disallow it. Just FYI.

[Ya Mu]

Be aware that my actions were not motivated by that view. I would have made the same recommendations to anybody else who acted that way. The fact that Ya Mu's behavior coincides with him being an energy healer simply added to the curiosity of the whole situation. He is presenting his profession and making claims that then, in interpersonal relations, apparently don't hold water. If you advertise stuff, you have to expect public scrutiny. I can understand why he is on that quest against adversity in the first place, if his behavior in the pain thread is the way he deals with critics elsewhere. Also, I am not out on a mission, but merely tried to help someone eliminate a source of stress to the best of my understanding, and the response was provocative and practically asking for trouble. If someone can't see themselves in the mirror and keep pounding on it, don't blame the mirror. Sometimes people will eventually recognize their own picture in it, sometimes not. Sometimes the denial is so elaborate that it looks like I was able to help, and then of course my following actions based on that deception/misunderstanding cause further dissonance.

 

P.S.: Still no info on the advertising question.

"Pain Killer Sales Soar - Why not try Medical Qigong - Medical Qigong instead of Narcotics" is clearly an advertising thread. We should have a right to know whether 'covert' advertising schemes are being supported by the forum.

And you still don't seem to understand that what I was referring to was your insistence on diagnosing, telling a person what is wrong with them, then giving unsolicited advice on how to treat the "perceived in your own mind" problem. Especially when there is no problem and it is some type of twisted thing you come up with in your own mind.

Unsolicited diagnosis and treatment suggestions is unprofessional in any medical field and is certainly not appropriate on a forum, whether you are a licensed professional or not.

 

From the mods answer to you, they felt the same way. You just have no right to do that unless you are a licensed professional and a person comes to you in private. And then you should keep it private. This is not "Oh I just want to help", it is something that certainly borders on practicing medicine without a license. It is also a thing which could be dangerous to a person with little life experience or who has genuine psychological problems that actually takes your ill-informed, made up in your own head, advice. And what you are practicing has no bearing on anything but what you apparently self admitted to making up in your own mind based on theories of psychology. The correct buzzwords but no real education in psychology doesn't give you the right to do this. If I am wrong about that fact and you are indeed a professional psychologist, then you should be reported to your professional association as someone coming on forums and giving out unsolicited psychological advice.

 

And to clear up something else you said:

 

He said he energetically led the discussion so that Twinner would behave properly

 

Please do not post any more twists or lies here about what was said as this was not what I said.

 

I said that, from a (simplistic) energetic viewpoint, all I did was reflect back to him what he was projecting to me. This is not "energetically led the discussion so that Twinner would behave properly". And I only told you that because you kept on and on and on and on asking me about it in an attempt to derail the thread and add insults. Did I learn a lesson? One that I have learned over and over but admittedly do seem to forget; don't answer questions from disrespectful people that are only attempting to get ammunition for an argument. And for the record, I have NEVER EVER attempted any energy manipulation on ANYONE on this forum for any reason whatsoever. If they privately asked for my help would be the only reason I would consider doing so.

 

I don't ask anything from anyone here but what is generally referred to as common courtesy; and I do give anyone else here the same thing if they show it. You have already said yourself that you, instead of extending this common courtesy, prefer to challenge people so as to make judgments about them, as that is a part of your made up "psychological system". Why not consider approaching others with respect and see if they don't respond to you in the same manner?

 

... I sometimes feel sorry that we lost 5E, he was a font of knowledge and because of petty bickering about lineage, was lost. ...

To clear the air here about something else said, once on the other thread twinner referred to me running off a forum member. In the other thread he said "5ET". Now in this thread he has mentioned 5ET and I am not sure if he is still referring to me about "running him off". Twinner, I did not "run off" anyone, much less 5 ET, who I thought the forum was very lucky to have as a member. I also considered him then and still do, as an extremely knowledgeable friend. But yes, I have seen all of the personal insults that a few people here like to throw around giving several teachers here pause about posting at all and mostly removing themselves from the board or disgustedly leaving. Such a shame, really.

--------------------------------------

In general

 

This board has such great potential but receives constant setbacks from the personal insults. Many times these insults are veiled by very smart people so that, under forum rules, they are not considered personal insults but nonetheless are as they are usually personal and the person receiving them is insulted.

 

This would not happen if we all simply spoke to each other like we would standing in person speaking. Respect to others is not something that should have to be earned but something that should be a common ground for everyone to use so as to explore the deep mysteries without the type of thing reflected in this thread happening. It is also my understanding that to constantly attempt to derail a thread is against forum rules, and of course a mod would have to be the one to say if that is true or not. WHY NOT allow a thread to maintain continuity without the constant interruptions? Again, this would be simple common courtesy.

[Ya Mu]

Well, I like you, damn it!, and don't you ever forget it!!!

HA HA! Well, I like you too!

I was only referring to the three people who posted originally.

[Owledge]

I said that, from a (simplistic) energetic viewpoint, all I did was reflect back to him what he was projecting to me.

You seem so involved in your alleged projection-reflection that you don't recognize your own stuff anymore. Like there is none.

keyword: responsibility

 

And for the record, I have NEVER EVER attempted any energy manipulation on ANYONE on this forum for any reason whatsoever. If they privately asked for my help would be the only reason I would consider doing so.

I know that you probably mean your medical qi gong, but you should be aware that energy manipulation happens all the time during interaction between people.

keyword: responsibility

 

This would not happen if we all simply spoke to each other like we would standing in person speaking.

So you still entertain the convenient belief that it's the forum why people don't treat you the way you think you deserve to be treated.

keyword: responsibility

[mjjbecker]

 

People need to earn respect.

 

 

It isn't about earning respect. I'm sure plenty of people on this forum dislike other members and disagree with their views. Yet, they don't get involved in personal slanging matches.

 

It is about courtesy. What was lacking, or perceived lacking, was a lack of courtesy in responding to each other in said thread. I'm not singling you out beyond anyone else. At applies to all involved.

 

It has been pointed out many times before, writing on a forum does not allow for easy understanding of people's meaning and intent. There is no tone of voice or body language to guage. There are only the words, and how people react to them will vary, depending on how they perceive the intent of the message. Often that perception on forums is one of confrontation-I said something, he/she disagreed, therefore he/she was attacking me personally. From this tempers flare and things escalate.

 

Once again I will repeat what I've said before. Don't blame the moderators for doing their job. If people self moderated the moderators would not be needed. That doesn't come down to anyone having to respect another person or their views, but it does come down to everyone showing other people the courtesy that they themselves would like to be shown.

 

An example. Despite being a bitter opponent of appeasment, this is what Winston Churchill had to say on the news of the death of Neville Chamberlain. I've quoted the appropriate paragraph but you can read the full speach by following the link.

 

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/speeches-of-winston-churchill/104-neville-chamberlain

 

 

It fell to Neville Chamberlain in one of the supreme crises of the world to be contradicted by events, to be disappointed in his hopes, and to be deceived and cheated by a wicked man. But what were these hopes in which he was disappointed? What were these wishes in which he was frustrated? What was that faith that was abused? They were surely among the most noble and benevolent instincts of the human heart-the love of peace, the toil for peace, the strife for peace, the pursuit of peace, even at great peril, and certainly to the utter disdain of popularity or clamour. Whatever else history may or may not say about these terrible, tremendous years, we can be sure that Neville Chamberlain acted with perfect sincerity according to his lights and strove to the utmost of his capacity and authority, which were powerful, to save the world from the awful, devastating struggle in which we are now engaged. This alone will stand him in good stead as far as what is called the verdict of history is concerned.

 

Right or wrong, wise or misguided, the majority of people posting on this forum are sincere in their beliefs, perhaps seeking some help and often genuine in their wish to help others. We may not respect what they stand for, but perhaps we can debate and discuss those views by showing each other the courtesy we all would appreciate.

[Aaron]

The kind of 'earn it' idea you just suggested makes it very easy to justify not giving respect to other people. Of course no-one is saying you, Twinner, 'have to' respect people, but that would be your call to kick off with. In which case, no justification required. Given I'm a contrary animal, I'd probably jump through your 'earn it' hoops backwards not to do it

 

The kind of respect I'm talking about is the teacher-student respect, of course you treat everyone with respect, but if you want to be respected as a teacher, you do need to earn it.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

The kind of respect I'm talking about is the teacher-student respect, of course you treat everyone with respect, but if you want to be respected as a teacher, you do need to earn it.

 

Aaron

What's the difference?

[Aaron]

What's the difference?

 

Respect that's earned because you feel the person is sufficiently skilled to teach you the practice. For me that requires more than just a sign on a door.

 

Aaron

[Ya Mu]

You seem so involved in your alleged projection-reflection that you don't recognize your own stuff anymore. Like there is none.

keyword: responsibility

 

 

I know that you probably mean your medical qi gong, but you should be aware that energy manipulation happens all the time during interaction between people.

keyword: responsibility

 

 

So you still entertain the convenient belief that it's the forum why people don't treat you the way you think you deserve to be treated.

keyword: responsibility

keyword:

Ya Mu does not want, desire or need your diagnosis nor treatment based on your mental projections of the way you think things are. You didn't like my answers to your questions and since then have constantly been after me with your same nonsense of attempting to diagnose me and tell me my problems utilizing your version of twisted psychology.

 

I have already kindly asked you about 20 times now to cease this. Again, your diagnosis nor treatment is not wanted or needed by me. Why can't you get that through your head? I would say go practice on your dog but would feel guilty about the dog at making such a suggestion.

 

I already know I am not a perfect person, nor have I met one in my years here on this Earth, which most likely number about twice yours. So get used to it as you will most probably never meet one during the 2nd part of your life either. I do make one exception with that statement as there was one person I have met who did approach this.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

You seem so involved in your alleged projection-reflection that you don't recognize your own stuff anymore. Like there is none.

keyword: responsibility

 

 

I know that you probably mean your medical qi gong, but you should be aware that energy manipulation happens all the time during interaction between people.

keyword: responsibility

 

 

So you still entertain the convenient belief that it's the forum why people don't treat you the way you think you deserve to be treated.

keyword: responsibility

 

Owledge, with all your lofty perspective, do you not see how patronizing and condescending you sound? People try this, "I'm gonna be a jerk and see if this person a nicer than Mother Theresa, and if not I have a new punching bag with whom I can act like the mountain master of superior insight." Lots of people seem to love to do that here, and I spent too much time trying to be a street hero and step in for people that I eventually just quit trying to be a bodyguard for people who I percieve as having further to drop by getting into such interactions. This drop being enough for them to just leave.

 

I see a lot of people with very strong opinions about things they know nothing about and that is never a good path.

 

Twinner, if I said something like "being gay is xyz, and you can never prove otherwise (since you can't really)" don't you think you would be a little bit pissed off that I just offended you and so many other people you respect? Why assume Ya Mu should feel differently about his lineage? Why assume you can just attack it as an absurdity with no reaction to your insult?

 

 

And really, high spiritual masters are usually very disciplined and don't put up with childish BS and will punish some students severely. Ya Mu might not be a high spiritual master of the Himilayas, but he is a master of Taoist healing to the extent that he teaches other masters. He gets rid of evil entities with Taoist methods. Is it any wonder that his rather courteous and patient rebuttals have tried to turn back some of the BS being directed at him? Would he be an effective healer if he had no capacity for doing so?

 

Fyi, in the Shaolin Grandmasters text (published in the 90's or so by a Grandmaster Shaolin exile) it is said that monks will only send back the negative energy sent to them, which I think Ya Mu has no more than done.

[Moderator team]

Moderation action, quoted from original thread (below).

- Trunk

 

Ok, well, okee-dokey.

I'm here to moderate and, yes, this is our new snappy "Moderator Team" member that we'll be using at least occasionally. I like it. Makes it super clear that it's moderation.

 

Regarding this thread specifically, right now.

1. This thread, thus far, is declared "a draw" as far as moderation issues go. All parties argued vigorously, so what do you expect other than vigorous arguement? That means everything to 'here' is a non-mod issue. Hence forth in this thread or anywhere, if there are personal attacks/insults, use the 'report' button.

3. I will go through the thread and "approve" (unhide) all of the posts that we hid while considering this matter. Thanks for your patience.

4. Ya Mu, if you would like a Personal Practice forum, please contact any of the moderators. You would have more control in that context (as does anyone in their own PPF). We could then copy this thread into your subforum and you could modify it as you like, there. The original would stay here as-is.

 

Some notes about TTBs environment in general, quoted for emphasis.

Notes for everyone:

 

GENERAL DISCUSSION SECTION (most sections, actually)

1. Principle: In General Discussion it's an OPEN INTERNET discussion forum. There's a variety of people here on a level conversational playing field. That's the context.

2. If you don't want to argue with someone, then don't. If you don't want want speech to be coarse, then keep your speech clear.

3. Simple harrassment, "trolling", is not tolerated - but widely diverse, even strongly opposed points of view are not only tolerated but valued. The challenge becomes to resolve, move on, ignore - to do whatever you do to keep your own part of the conversation clear and contributive. It's an unusually open social environment that often takes some getting used to.

3. If there are personal insults, ad hominem attacks, use the "report" button.

4. If you'd really just rather not see any of X's posts, the "ignore" feature is a too often overlooked little beauty of a feature.

 

PERSONAL PRACTICE SUBFORUMS

Each person has more security rights (authority) in their own subforum (if you request one to be made for you). Any one can delete posts (and some other stuff I think maybe etc) in their own subforum. If you want more control over some threads that you want to invest more in, in a certain way/s than you might not in the open format of the general discussion area, get your own subforum. A lot of the sweet spots of TTBs are in the personal practice forums.

 

- Trunk

[Aetherous]

Fyi, in the Shaolin Grandmasters text (published in the 90's or so by a Grandmaster Shaolin exile) it is said that monks will only send back the negative energy sent to them, which I think Ya Mu has no more than done.

 

The way I am viewing this, everyone involved is trying to do the right things and help in their own way. When people are attacking egos in the spiritual community, they are trying to help each other grow.

 

But it becomes plain to see that reflecting another person's shit back at them isn't very helpful. Bob sees shit and reflects upon it, then Bill sees Bob's reflected shit and decides to reflect it back...so on and so forth. Just a bunch of shit. Just a bunch of mirrors rather than people.

 

What are you looking at?

 

We always have a choice on what we focus on. Shit is addicting. Using the mirror is addicting. But it's possible to simply drop it and live a life of pure serenity, remaining untouched, in the midst of a shit storm. It's just about where your focus is. It's about moving forward.

 

 

BTW, I say this totally as someone with much experience in diving into the shit storm as you all know. So despite this coming from the likes of Scotty...this is just sharing a helpful idea that I have been reflecting upon.

[Owledge]

Fyi, in the Shaolin Grandmasters text (published in the 90's or so by a Grandmaster Shaolin exile) it is said that monks will only send back the negative energy sent to them, which I think Ya Mu has no more than done.

Then why is it that the one who allegedly merely reflects back negative energy is the one getting all worked up?

I sense preconceptions here. Part of the problem or phenomenon is that Ya Mu automatically assumes superiority of his techniques. His statements in the pain thread (now made visible again) contain belittling stereotypes, but he never seems to actually care who the people he talks to are, since apparently if he doesn't like what they say, they must be amateurs.

I am surprised how little it is known in this Taoist forum that inner and outer state are connected. There is no freedom from responsibility about outer experiences. Still, various people keep trying to explain events as one-sided.

In case it is still not clear:

1) What happened would not have happened without my contribution to it.

2) What happened would not have happened without Ya Mu's contribution to it.

 

So do you blame me for not being polite enough? Then you also have to blame Ya Mu.

 

I am taking responsibility for my part. I won't take responsibility for Ya Mu's part. And that seems to be the problem. Because when I am rejecting his reponsibility, that causes dissonance. He expects the full burden to be shouldered by others. Same with the underlying theme of spreading medical qi gong in the western world. There's a lot of talk about resistances, disbelief, scepticism, rigid structures, medical qi gong being so much better. What about the other side of the coin? What about his desire to break through, to force stuff?

 

Ah, well, this seems to be too simple to be seen or whatever. Maybe looking right at the source is too scary. It's just very funny how people can talk about spiritual principles on this forum without end, but when they are asked to take a look at how they are applying them, suddenly there's upheaval.

 

In theory, the whole phenomenon is interesting, but in praxis, it gets boring. Guess when I sense illusions, I better leave people alone. It's just not interesting to shy away whenever I see more than people can handle, and usually it takes an initial testing to figure that out, and by that time, they're already heavily asking for feedback.

So this is a learning process of course. I will change with it. As I said earlier, I welcome all experiences as meaningful.

 

@mjjbecker

You quoted a war criminal there who ordered the killing of thousands of civilians in order to drag the USA into war.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Owledge

[Aaron]

I'm done. All I wanted was an answer, in lieu of that, I will let this go, because there is nothing to be gained from going forward.

 

Owledge,

 

I would suggest that you take to heart what others have said, it's not your place to diagnose and "save" people that don't want to be saved. If someone says, no, then listen to them. There is no compassion in continuing an exchange just to placate one's own ego, and I would suggest that you are being directed more by your own need to be right, than compassion right now.

 

Ya Mu,

 

I would suggest that you examine your own actions, as I have, even if you don't admit openly that you've done wrong, if you see someplace in your own interaction that you might've done something wrong, then take that to heart for the future. I will try very hard to not judge your practice in the future. For me this is an ethical question, one that involves how one should behave and as I said before, I'm not smelling of roses here.

 

Aaron

Edited April 9, 2012 by Twinner