Hello....question about qigong and kungfu practice

[kentucker4]

First off.....greetings everyone...i am a 30-year-old from the US living in Taiwan. I have meditated to hypnosis and binaural beats for about 5 years now nightly to help fall asleep or just to meditate.

 

I recently took up kungfu about 3 months ago under an instructor who has studied for over 18 years here under his master who has studied for over 40 years. Part of the kungfu is daily qigong practice.

 

I have some questions about qigong sensations after practice..i just started the qigong practice last week. Sometimes after practice i feel great but this past Saturday I practiced for about 45 minutes or so and felt like i was a little high in a bad way all day long and even kind of negative the folowing day...like my mind was thinking wayyy too much about everything like an obsessive circle and things looked a little depersonalized...like everything felt uncomfortable and things looked a little distorted.

 

These feelings acre me as I recently quit a prescription medication knows as a benzo...a very powerful drug that messes up brain and gaba receptors up...the things in your brain that make you feel good....i quit this drug by slowly tapering down off it after daily usage for a year just 4 months ago and still feel weak from it...like i get panicky feeling and that horrible paranouid feeling like after you smoked too much weed or something and even recently i had this feeling like everyhting was breaking...my mind...felt like i was going crazy this was from a bad a reaction to a medication a doctor hear recently gave me....i take no meds on a regular basis here...just tried it for sleep one night.

 

Anyways...my goal with kungfu and qigong is to simply feel normal and mentally healthy once again....is qigong safe for me to practice in my current situation or should i wait until my body and brain recover more from the meds that i were on?

 

Many thanks for your insight......also, I practice the horse stance everyday just once a day which is supposed to cultivate chi as well and can feel it pulling me down sometimes and my sleep has improved greatly from it......but i also have strange sensations after doing it from time to time.

Edited April 9, 2012 by kentucker4

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Is there a specific name of the style of qi gong you're doing? Different styles generally have different effects. I think the medical styles are especially calming, while martial styles might rev you up more. Do you practice sitting meditation? This can have different effects on different people as well, but it can help to sort of metabolize everything, in my experience, so long as you follow the Taoist principles of Wu Wei or abiding in stillness and harmony while not forcing them, enjoying the silent awareness when possible.

[kentucker4]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[kentucker4]

If there isn't a warm up and closing to the set you could use the ones from this link. Smoothing the qi at the end is very helpful, and opening the channels in the beginning to avoid stagnation on blockages is advisable. The opening and closing in the video above are pretty safe and non-specific, other than that the closing stores qi in the dantien which is pretty standard.

 

The bending back and forth in the 2nd one might put a lot of qi in your head so the close might help bring it back down to the dantien. Its generally good to circulate the chi back down the front to the dantien if it is being directed up the back to the head. Some yogis will mess around with filling the head with prana or chi but its not something to mess around with without building a really stable foundation since it can be very ungrounding to be too much in your head and not grounded properly.

 

I'm no expert, but sounds like maybe the 2nd one brings chi to the upper dantien, the 3rd one to the middle dantien (chest area) and the 1st to the lower dantien. A closing routine might be better in your situation to bring it back to the dantien following the rest of the routine. You could talk to your teacher about this too as he might have a different suggestion that works more along the lines of what he is teaching.

 

Possibly, some martial styles might even value a bit of craziness as it pushes you to a more warrior-like mentality versus a healer's mentality, but that is purely speculation with no knowledge of your teacher or the goals of his lineage. A bit of warrior mentality can be good just for determination and focus, so that isn't necessarily a violent mentality though you may want to smooth it out a bit for yourself.

 

 

Thanks.

 

The purpose of the 2nd one is to help feel your dantien with air or chi for beginners....if it gets chi stuck in your head than no thanks...i will avoid that one like the plague.....that is the last thing that I want...2 years of smoking weed already did that..........i just want to learn qigong that makes me feel very calm and like my old happy self.

[kentucker4]

We already do those movements in Kungfu naturally for the opening one in some of the basic actions first learned...but the closing one looks useful....how does that get rid of chi stuck in your head, though? I am really worried about getting chi stuck in my head. Should I just skip the second qigong technique that he taught me???? I don't want any stuck in my head.

 

 

Also, a lot of kungfu...the foundation really is static stances....and in my form we do them low to the ground such as the horse stance we are taught to put the thighs paralel to the ground..knees bent at 90 degree angle back straight relaxed...ect. We do 6 static stances...i do them Monday through Friday...hold the horse for 2 minutes about to go up to 2 and a half minutes and then transition into the rest of the stances one after another holding each for a minute or 30 seconds...depending on the stance....at first i hated this but now i kind of like it because i link them and that though a lot tougher on your muscles at first saves time and takes your mind off anyhting bad you are thinking.........but i feel as if these stances are very very important based on things i have heard and felt from them...at first i was feeling sick and bad from them but now i usually feel better after a set of them......and i can feel myself sticking to the ground in the horse and another stance in particular if i am focused in the right way. How powerful are these stances for building chi????

Edited April 9, 2012 by kentucker4

[Harmonious Emptiness]

We already do those movements in Kungfu naturally for the opening one in some of the basic actions first learned...but the closing one looks useful....how does that get rid of chi stuck in your head, though? I am really worried about getting chi stuck in my head. Should I just skip the second qigong technique that he taught me???? I don't want any stuck in my head.

 

The shaking especially and meridian slapping in the beginning loosen up stuck chi which could block the flow. They also let out negative chi which can also be negative emotional energies.

 

The close helps direct the chi to flow from the hands and feet as needed rather than sticking in one area, then it directs the chi down to the dantien and stores it there. That set is quite balanced but also has a great part for the middle dantien. Since your set ends with focus on the middle dantien, it could help to brush the chi back down to the lower dantien. You might even want to add the final grounding movement from it before the close as this is excellent for grounding.

 

I don't know for sure that your second movement will bring the chi up to the head. just picturing it sounds like some that do, bending forward or down and then sending the head back with a big breath. That might not be what you're doing though. Either way, if you follow that with middle dantien focus and then do the grounding movement and closing you should be fine, especially if you're doing the good opening to allow an easy flow and transition.

 

 

How powerful are these stances for building chi????

 

I've heard different things about their use as a chi gong, but I know they are very very important in Shaolin kung fu, and probably help a lot for grounding and rooting a la Tai Chi. If you want to make them more chi gong oriented you could just hold the chi ball in front of dantien, but I don't know where your teacher is going with them so you might check with him about doing this. You don't want him to think your "cup is too full" and that you're modifying everything he says, iykwim. Holding the chi ball like this can be very helpful though to center you and take your mind off your thighs, while directing the energy coming up through the ground, in my experience.

[ChiDragon]

 

I have some questions about qigong sensations after practice..i just started the qigong practice last week. Sometimes after practice i feel great but this past Saturday I practiced for about 45 minutes or so and felt like i was a little high in a bad way all day long and even kind of negative the folowing day...like my mind was thinking wayyy too much about everything like an obsessive circle and things looked a little depersonalized...like everything felt uncomfortable and things looked a little distorted.

 

These feelings acre me as I recently quit a prescription medication knows as a benzo...a very powerful drug that messes up brain and gaba receptors up...the things in your brain that make you feel good....i quit this drug by slowly tapering down off it after daily usage for a year just 4 months ago and still feel weak from it...like i get panicky feeling and that horrible paranouid feeling like after you smoked too much weed or something and even recently i had this feeling like everyhting was breaking...my mind...felt like i was going crazy this was from a bad a reaction to a medication a doctor hear recently gave me....i take no meds on a regular basis here...just tried it for sleep one night.

 

Anyways...my goal with kungfu and qigong is to simply feel normal and mentally healthy once again....is qigong safe for me to practice in my current situation or should i wait until my body and brain recover more from the meds that i were on?

Many thanks for your insight......also, I practice the horse stance everyday just once a day which is supposed to cultivate chi as well and can feel it pulling me down sometimes and my sleep has improved greatly from it......but i also have strange sensations after doing it from time to time.

 

QiGong does miracle. If the practitioner has a problem inside the body, QiGong will go through a cleansing process to help you to get rid of all the impurities. After the cleansing process, it will resume your body back to normalcy. However, during the cleansing process, your body will be going through some changes. Hence, you will had all kinds of different strange feelings that you've never had before. It is completely normal; and it was an indication that QiGong is working for you. So, don't worry but just continue with your practice....

Edited April 9, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

We already do those movements in Kungfu naturally for the opening one in some of the basic actions first learned...but the closing one looks useful....how does that get rid of chi stuck in your head, though? I am really worried about getting chi stuck in my head. Should I just skip the second qigong technique that he taught me???? I don't want any stuck in my head.

 

The notion about "chi get stuck in your head" was only a myth, IMO. QiGong will overcome anything in the body if one practice it diligently...

[kentucker4]

QiGong does miracle. If the practitioner has a problem inside the body, QiGong will go through a cleansing process to help you to get rid of all the impurities. After the cleansing process, it will resume your body back to normalcy. However, during the cleansing process, your body will be going through some changes. Hence, you will had all kinds of different strange feelings that you've never had before. It is completely normal; and it was an indication that QiGong is working for you. So, don't worry but just continue with your practice....

 

 

I had a flu like illness last week with a high fever and puking some....this was just several days after I began qigong....could this have been a healing crisis?

 

Also, I feel pretty good so far today after my kungfu and qigong practice...finished about 10 minutes ago only, though.....feel a slight euphoric and warm feeling in my lower back and stomach area.....and feel much higher spirited than yesterday and when i first woke up this morning. Maybe this stuff isn't so bad afterall.

 

Also, i am naturally OCD...i have obessessive worrie and thoughts at times and sometimes thing negative thoughts while doing chigong like am i forcing myself to breath too deeply? Am I doing it right? Will this hinder or runin my practice...sometimes i am able to feel great and concentrated while practicing others... i start worrying about every little detail.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I had a flu like illness last week with a high fever and puking some....this was just several days after I began qigong....could this have been a healing crisis?

 

Also, I feel pretty good so far today after my kungfu and qigong practice...finished about 10 minutes ago only, though.....feel a slight euphoric and warm feeling in my lower back and stomach area.....and feel much higher spirited than yesterday and when i first woke up this morning. Maybe this stuff isn't so bad afterall.

 

Also, i am naturally OCD...i have obessessive worrie and thoughts at times and sometimes thing negative thoughts while doing chigong like am i forcing myself to breath too deeply? Am I doing it right? Will this hinder or runin my practice...sometimes i am able to feel great and concentrated while practicing others... i start worrying about every little detail.

 

What Chi Dragon said is true as well, that the body will adapt. It's just that there are ways to avoid these symptoms too, though the transformation could be more gradual. I would venture and unprofessional guess that the illness could have been a purging set on by the qi gong. It's like when people start eating healthy food some get sick first since the food purges toxins and then they decide it's bad for them which may not really be the case.

 

Sounds like the qi gong is working powerfully, likely supported by the kung fu and good instruction, and that you already did some serious purging so it's probably uphill from here.

 

Don't worry too much about worrying too much in the beginning. Just keep practicing. Nobody becomes a master in a week. Do it with feeling, like Master Aretha Franklin , and stay relaxed to let the chi flow through the joints (you remember what it's like when the joints were too tight ?).

[Green Tiger]

OH GOOD . . . this is your first topic. That is a relief. Thought you were putting the cart before the horse with that semen retention thread.

 

As to your question about an unpleasant feeling: I agree that a good closing practice is important for smoothing the qi before going back to daily life. One of my favorites is a posture that Lee Holden uses at the end of many of his qigong routines: "Bamboo sways in the breeze"

 

You simply stand with your feet together and your hands over the lower dantien, right over left. He hooks the thumbs, but that is probably optional. Just stand in a way that is comfortable, concentrate on the lower dantien, and breathe deeply for 3-10 breaths.

[ChiDragon]

1. I had a flu like illness last week with a high fever and puking some....this was just several days after I began qigong....could this have been a healing crisis?

2. Also, I feel pretty good so far today after my kungfu and qigong practice...finished about 10 minutes ago only, though.....feel a slight euphoric and warm feeling in my lower back and stomach area.....and feel much higher spirited than yesterday and when i first woke up this morning. Maybe this stuff isn't so bad afterall.

3. Also, i am naturally OCD...i have obessessive worrie and thoughts at times and sometimes thing negative thoughts while doing chigong like am i forcing myself to breath too deeply? Am I doing it right? Will this hinder or runin my practice...sometimes i am able to feel great and concentrated while practicing others... i start worrying about every little detail.

 

1. You might call it the healing crisis or the worse nightmare at the beginning of Chi Kung practice due to the cleansing process. The frequency of the occurrence depends upon the health conditions of your body. If your body has something else, then there will be other symptoms.

 

2. Indeed, not bad at all.

 

3. It is wise not to force yourself to breathe too deep but breathe slowly as deep as you can. Eventually, from your daily practice, you breath will reach down to your dan tian(abdomen) progressively. There is no need to worry about every little detail but concentrate on your breathing. Breathing is the key to Chi Kung practice. Remember, just breathe slowly and deeply as your natural breathing routine.

[GreytoWhite]

Regarding relaxing your shoulders whilst doing the movement a helpful hint I learned was to think as if your shoulder blades are inserted into your back pockets.

[kentucker4]

Thanks so much everyone for your help and replies.

 

I woke up this morning and upon walking outside realized i feel horribly sluggish and spcaey headed to day...each day i wake up lately i always have this strong hangover feeling like i got drunk the night before or something......am am going to practice kungfu and qigong with my instructor though and will drink some noni juice...so hoepfully i will feel good by the time work rolls around...

 

How long will this cleansing process last? It's like a roller coaster ride.

[ChiDragon]

How long will this cleansing process last? It's like a roller coaster ride.

 

It all depends how serious whatever you have in your body system. You said that you are having some drugs in your system which are giving you some side effects. Hopefully, all the drugs will be cleared out of your system soon.

[kentucker4]

It all depends how serious whatever you have in your body system. You said that you are having some drugs in your system which are giving you some side effects. Hopefully, all the drugs will be cleared out of your system soon.

 

I quit the drugs 4 months ago. They are long gone from my system. But my gaba receptors in my brain (the things that release chemicals to make you calm and relaxed) are not working at full power so to speak. I was getting better but i decided to drink alcohol again on the weekends and alcohol also makes the gaba receptors weaker if they are already weakened....so i am back to feeling withdrawal symptoms and sometimes the kungfu and qigong makes those symptoms feel worse.

 

Today i had a rather intense kungfu practice....grueling stance work..followed by qigong. I have felt very very disorientated all day today at work after and felt spacey headed and nervous. How long should I expect this to last at the longest??? I could barely do my job today.

 

Also, i visited a chinese doctor today and he said the problem is that my chi is not flowing smoothly. He gave me some accupunture on my neck and a massage on neck and shoulders and gave me some herbal medicine. Perhaps I should slow down the kungfu and qigong practice???

[ChiDragon]

1. I quit the drugs 4 months ago. They are long gone from my system. But my gaba receptors in my brain (the things that release chemicals to make you calm and relaxed) are not working at full power so to speak. I was getting better but i decided to drink alcohol again on the weekends and alcohol also makes the gaba receptors weaker if they are already weakened....so i am back to feeling withdrawal symptoms and sometimes the kungfu and qigong makes those symptoms feel worse.

 

2. Today i had a rather intense kungfu practice....grueling stance work..followed by qigong. I have felt very very disorientated all day today at work after and felt spacey headed and nervous. How long should I expect this to last at the longest??? I could barely do my job today.

 

3. Also, i visited a chinese doctor today and he said the problem is that my chi is not flowing smoothly. He gave me some accupunture on my neck and a massage on neck and shoulders and gave me some herbal medicine. Perhaps I should slow down the kungfu and qigong practice???

 

1. I see this is a personal problem has to be resolved by yourself.

 

2. There something that you should be aware of which is that Kung Fu is an external practice; and Qi Gong is an internal. It seems to me you had indicated that you had done them in the reverse order. Since Qi Gong builds up energy and Kung Fu consumes energy, therefore, you should practice Qi Gong first then do the Kung Fu practice. My suggestion to you is just do the Qi Gong for awhile without doing the Kung Fu. It is because it will help you to heal the internal problems if there are any. You need to build up more energy in the body instead of consuming it. Indeed, Qi Gong with slow movements is a very good combination of exercising your breathing(internal) and physical body(external). Another words, it is equivalent to both Qi Gong and Kung Fu at the same time. That will kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

 

3. I think you knew your problem is in the gaba receptors. It is a biological problem. I don't know if any external treatment would help it or not. However, Qi Gong is very effective in internal healing. If you continue with the practice, it might help you with other organs in the body and balance everything out holistically....

Edited April 11, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Harmonious Emptiness]

To reiterate then, and add some more (in italics)

The shaking especially and meridian slapping in the beginning loosen up stuck chi which could block the flow. They also let out negative chi which can also be negative emotional energies.

 

The close helps direct the chi to flow from the hands and feet as needed rather than sticking in one area, then it directs the chi down to the dantien and stores it there. That set is quite balanced but also has a great part for the middle dantien. Since your set ends with focus on the middle dantien, it could help to brush the chi back down to the lower dantien. You might even want to add the final grounding movement from it before the close as this is excellent for grounding.

 

I don't know for sure that your second movement will bring the chi up to the head. just picturing it sounds like some that do, bending forward or down and then sending the head back with a big breath. That might not be what you're doing though. Either way, if you follow that [upper dantien] with middle dantien focus [where your current set finishes] then do the grounding movement and [or at least] closing you should be fine, especially if you're doing the good opening to allow an easy flow and transition [of chi between the dantiens].

 

 

 

 

I've heard different things about their use as a chi gong, but I know they are very very important in Shaolin kung fu, and probably help a lot for grounding and rooting a la Tai Chi. If you want to make them more chi gong oriented you could just hold the chi ball in front of dantien, but I don't know where your teacher is going with them so you might check with him about doing this. You don't want him to think your "cup is too full" and that you're modifying everything he says, iykwim. Holding the chi ball like this can be very helpful though to center you and take your mind off your thighs, while directing the energy coming up through the ground, in my experience [you also want to ground the chi at the lower dantien where it can go as needed to places that draw from it. If your building up lots of energy, you could also focus it merely by intent through MCO so that it is moving and not static. See the recent Compassion thread where thelerner describes "running relaxation, confidence, laughter, love, and sexual energy through the microcosmic orbit." But like electricity, there should be some ground for the energy, and the lower dantien is associated as the Earth, the middle as Humanity, and the upper as Heaven. Our pre-natal qi goes in through the navel and sinks into the dantien, so sink into your earth with your horse stance. Holding left hand above the dantien and right below it, both palms up, is good for building energy. Or face left palm down and right up to embrace the dantien for more grounding.].

Edited April 11, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[kentucker4]

To reiterate then, and add some more (in italics)

 

Once again...thanks for all the help guys. I am scared to do the chigong before kungfu because i know will feel rushed to finished it quickly and won't able to relax.. kungfu takes at least an hiur and a half and i like to knock it out first.....will just try qhigog today with no kungfu.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Once again...thanks for all the help guys. I am scared to do the chigong before kungfu because i know will feel rushed to finished it quickly and won't able to relax.. kungfu takes at least an hiur and a half and i like to knock it out first.....will just try qhigog today with no kungfu.

 

Maybe taking a couple days off wouldn't hurt to let your body catch up. It could also be that you're just be taking in a lot more air than your used to and that has made you feel light headed.

 

I would disagree somewhat with the suggestion not to do kung fu before the qi gong, especially if your instructor has said to do it this way. You warm up, then do kung fu, then do qi gong to settle down and regenerate qi before going about your day.

 

A lot of kung fu is sort of qi gong in disguise anyways. You might want to try the whole set from the video I linked earlier if you haven't tried moving qi gong, just to get a feel for moving qi gong, and then you might see how to apply it to the movements in kung fu, aligning your whole body, mind, intent, breath, and chi with the movements, alternating between gathering and releasing in a way that cleanses the body. Then close with qi gong to gather positive chi which will also calm you down and allow better for better flow through the day.

[ChiDragon]

Kung Fu is external and Chi Kung is internal. Internal(Nei Kung) is aiding the external while the external has a cancelling effect for the Internal for beginners. It is wise to practice the internal first for few years to have the body to build up the jin for external practice. There is no rush for the external practice unless you are preparing to fight somebody in a hurry. It is a rule of thumb not to practice both a the same time.

Edited May 19, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

You have Kung-fu and your Qigong forms. As I have not done Kung-fu before I was wondering if doing Kung-fu forms (at least some if done a certain way) could be considered a type of qigong? Do kung-fu forms build jing? help the meridians?

[ChiDragon]

The practice of Kung Fu requires to consume energy. Thus by the time you are finished, you will be exhausted due to the lactate build up in the muscles. Until you rested up and pay back the oxygen debt to the muscles, then your body will be recuperated and back to normal condition. Since all the energy were used up during practice, there was no more energy left over to build the Jing.

In Chi Kung practice, you will breathe more oxygen into the body and the slow movements do not consume energy but built more than you can handle. That is why all Chi Kung practitioners are so energetic all the time.

Any form of Kung Fu may not be considered as Chi Kung. They are independent of each other. That is why we have two different names given to them.


Note: There is a difference between Jing(精) and Jin(勁).