Compassion

[Marblehead]

I am always impressed as to how adults regress to childish responses.

Funny. I was just laughing about that after thinking that the "compassion" thread has become totally void of any compassion.

[Owledge]

When Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth," he was pointing the same thing as the Buddhists.

How can the realm of the mind, in which the concept of true/false is created, be called untrue in contrast to a so-called higher realm in which there is no mind and thus no truth or falsehood?

 

My very personal insight/view that I gained from my ayahuasca experiences is that this so-called illusion we are living in is a divine realm, so to speak. It emerges from the Oneness, and if it didn't have a purpose, it would not exist. So by emerging from the source, the illusion is as true as the source itself. In fact, ironically, while the mind is devalued in spiritual traditions as creating the illusion, of erring in some way, it is instead part of the divine manifestation. You could say, the mind is an agent of God's will, as is everything else, since the source of everything is regarded as divine.

 

Did you ever wonder whether spiritual fish regard the sea as an illusion and the land as the true realm? Maybe fish jumping out of the water are spiritual seekers who are using special swimming techniques in order to reunite with the higher realms.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I am always impressed as to how adults regress to childish responses.

I know I'm pretty childish at times.

[xabir2005]

What is buddhist term for compassion...either sanskrit or pali please...

Karuna

[rex]

At a simple level compassion is the wish for everyone to be free from suffering while love is the wish for everyone to be happy. This thread has the potential for people of different traditions to share the ontological status of compassion in their respective systems and the ways it is utilised in spiritual and worldly life.

[thelerner]

semantically dissecting compassion has its problems. The question is what can we do to get 'there'.

 

I like the Secret Smile from KAP, a relative of Healing Tao's Inner Smile. You can search for the practice on the bums. In short its running relaxation, confidence, laughter, love, and sexual energy through the microcosmic orbit. It only takes a few minutes. When I'm good I'll do it every washroom break and it lifts the spirit. When I'm bad (most of the time) I'll ignore the practice months at a time.

 

Simple 'karma yoga'. Service to others. Situations pop every day where we can lend others a hand. Or at least sending a smile other peoples way.

[C T]

compassion? putting a warm cupcake in your mouth and wishing that your siblings were around...

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[ralis]

"Impressed?" Really?

 

Cultivate a sense of humor, my friend!

 

 

I was being sarcastic.

[Aaron]

I think it's clear from everyone's responses, that no one hear understands exactly what compassion is. There are two forms of compassion, high and low, as Lao Tzu calls them. High Compassion stems from an act that is selfless, it's purpose is only to ease the suffering of others. Low compassion stems from morality and ego, it is never done selflessly, but rather to gain something in return, eternal life, status, or simply to feel better about one's self. When you can perform an act of compassion without asking anything in return, simply performing it because it needed to be done to benefit someone else, then you have performed compassion as it was described by the sages and Buddha. Without understanding one's connection to the one, you will never be able to perform this kind of act. Without transcending the ego, you can never understand exactly why you NEED to do this. And it is a need that is ingrained within us all, perhaps the emptiness we feel that compels us to seek salvation come's from this need, yet there is no need to be saved to find this highest of virtues, simply give yourself to everything that is you and ask nothing in return.

 

Aaron

Edited April 12, 2012 by Twinner

[Vmarco]

Edited April 12, 2012 by Vmarco

[三江源]

So if I look for compassion in the posts in this thread, will I see compassion in action?

 

If we looked at each individual post, would we see a different facet of compassion in each statement?

 

Is compassion operative in any sense as a receptive perception,as well as a projective intent or effect of inner light?

[Marblehead]

So if I look for compassion in the posts in this thread, will I see compassion in action?

 

If we looked at each individual post, would we see a different facet of compassion in each statement?

 

Is compassion operative in any sense as a receptive perception,as well as a projective intent or effect of inner light?

Tough questions to answer Cat.

 

I suggest that it would not be fair to judge anyone's ability for feeling and displaying compassion in 'real life' based on what we see of the words typed on any internet forum. We are actually 'removed from reality' here on the internet. In our 'real life' we are in direct contact with reality.

 

This is not to suggest that we are not being honest here on the internet, just that in the most part we are not emotionally involved. (Ego involved, Yes!)

 

I do agree with Twinner's above post but need to say that there is much more to the concept than he said in that one post.

[C T]

I think it's clear from everyone's responses, that no one hear understands exactly what compassion is. There are two forms of compassion, high and low, as Lao Tzu calls them. High Compassion stems from an act that is selfless, it's purpose is only to ease the suffering of others. Low compassion stems from morality and ego, it is never done selflessly, but rather to gain something in return, eternal life, status, or simply to feel better about one's self. When you can perform an act of compassion without asking anything in return, simply performing it because it needed to be done to benefit someone else, then you have performed compassion as it was described by the sages and Buddha. Without understanding one's connection to the one, you will never be able to perform this kind of act. Without transcending the ego, you can never understand exactly why you NEED to do this. And it is a need that is ingrained within us all, perhaps the emptiness we feel that compels us to seek salvation come's from this need, yet there is no need to be saved to find this highest of virtues, simply give yourself to everything that is you and ask nothing in return.

 

Aaron

This is only one of several ways to understand 'compassion' from the Eastern perspective.

 

Compassion is much more than a mere mental status which one trains to develop and then direct towards altruistic motives and actions. In Buddhist tantra, it is said that Compassion is the primordial energy that supports and evolute the whole of existence, and if one wishes to align one's life with the aim for balance and harmony, then all of one's thoughts, words and deeds could/should be observed moment to moment (developing the practice of mind, whereafter one merges (in the heart) or dissolves back into this universal energetic field. There, one may have access to all the joyful states one wishes, be it bliss, deep peace, strength of spirit, empathy, boundless energy to do good and feeding off the positive returns of one's actions, always having the wish to relief the misfortunes of others, and last but not least, even after performing the highest virtues, realizes that not one deed has been done, nothing has been achieved, and nothing has been lost.

 

Understandably, this is also one of a few very basic views pertaining to a very vast subject.

[dwai]

This is only one of several ways to understand 'compassion' from the Eastern perspective.

 

Compassion is much more than a mere mental status which one trains to develop and then direct towards altruistic motives and actions. In Buddhist tantra, it is said that Compassion is the primordial energy that supports and evolute the whole of existence, and if one wishes to align one's life with the aim for balance and harmony, then all of one's thoughts, words and deeds could/should be observed moment to moment (developing the practice of mind, whereafter one merges (in the heart) or dissolves back into this universal energetic field. There, one may have access to all the joyful states one wishes, be it bliss, deep peace, strength of spirit, empathy, boundless energy to do good and feeding off the positive returns of one's actions, always having the wish to relief the misfortunes of others, and last but not least, even after performing the highest virtues, realizes that not one deed has been done, nothing has been achieved, and nothing has been lost.

 

Understandably, this is also one of a few very basic views pertaining to a very vast subject.

Vmarco didnt answer my question, im assuming because he doesnt know. So here goes -

 

The buddhist and hindu (indian in general) term for compassion is karuna (both sanskrit and pali). Karuna is translated as the action of feeling pain of another's suffering and the desire to eliminate the pain. The word is also used as a synonym for mercy...

 

If you dont understand the word being used in the original tradition you dont understand the concept..

[三江源]

Tough questions to answer Cat.

 

I suggest that it would not be fair to judge anyone's ability for feeling and displaying compassion in 'real life' based on what we see of the words typed on any internet forum. We are actually 'removed from reality' here on the internet. In our 'real life' we are in direct contact with reality.

This is not to suggest that we are not being honest here on the internet, just that in the most part we are not emotionally involved. (Ego involved, Yes!)

 

I do agree with Twinner's above post but need to say that there is much more to the concept than he said in that one post.

 

Hello Marblehead. thanks for responding. I'm unsure about this issue of the internet and our reality, and the separating out of the two. Because spending time on the internet is a significant part of our everyday reality, and a way of conversing about things that matter to us, which we may not be be able to do with those that are physically present in our corporeal reality. I think the division of reality into compartments might be an illlusion of convenience that conspires against integrity.

[Vmarco]

So if I look for compassion in the posts in this thread, will I see compassion in action?

 

If we looked at each individual post, would we see a different facet of compassion in each statement?

 

Is compassion operative in any sense as a receptive perception,as well as a projective intent or effect of inner light?

 

Many today are media-ted to believe that the truth can be spoken in few words,...perhaps,...but in the world of ignorance, it takes many more words to point to truth, than to point to the beliefs that make ego palatable.

 

The top post is quite explicit,...stop seeking compassion,...for until you understand from which it arises, your seeking is useless.

 

CT correctly wrote above:

 

In Buddhist tantra, it is said that Compassion is the primordial energy that supports and evolute the whole of existence...

 

Ihis is what the 9 sources in the top post were pointing to,...real or absolute compassion (vs relative compassion) is a primordial energy, thus arises from the consciousness we had before we were born,...not filtered through the 6 senses, and based on the delusions of ego, and ego's dictionary.

 

The compassion of a Bodhisattva does have its tells or fragrance,...for example, the compassion of a Bodhisattva is always intolerant of anything that steps between a sentient being and their direct experience. As such, authentic Bodhisattvas are seldom accepted within a society-at-large that goes to great effort in protecting the beliefs that step between sentient beings and their liberation.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "the trap of duality is tenacious. Bound, rigid and trapped, you cannot experience liberation. Through dual cultivation it is possible to unravel the net, soften the rigidity, dismantle the trap"

 

Unfortunately, very few cultivate such dual awareness,...their idea of the feminine is founded by the patriarchy to sustain the patriarchy, and is not the real feminine. The feminine is only grasped through emptiness.

http://www.thetaobum..._1entry287298

[Vmarco]

Vmarco didnt answer my question, im assuming because he doesnt know. So here goes -

 

The buddhist and hindu (indian in general) term for compassion is karuna (both sanskrit and pali). Karuna is translated as the action of feeling pain of another's suffering and the desire to eliminate the pain. Thr word is also used as a synonym for mercy...

 

If you dont understand the word being used in the original tradition you dont understand the concept..

 

VMarco does not attempt to respond to petty questions easily accessible from Wiki. However, now that you "discovered" that karuna is the sanskrit for compassion, and continue to be confused, let's look at it in context of the top post.

 

To "feel another's suffering and the desire to eliminate the pain" on the level of absolute compassion means to understand that all suffering arises from the 6 senses, and thus to liberate such suffering is to point to the reality of those 6 senses. However, one cannot truly "feel" the suffering in another, until they recognize the suffering in themselves, which, according to the 9 sources in the top post, is impossible, without the gnowledge of emptiness.

 

So, let's simplify it,....again, in the context of the MESSAGE within the 9 sources of the top post,...Your understanding of compassion is useless (and always false) until you understand Who is Who in duality.

 

Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things."

 

The Tao is NOT One,...it merely gave birth to One. However, to understand compassion, you must understand One, because absolute compassion arises through the primordial energy of One. To understand One, you must realize Yin and Yang. Unfortunately, most are absorbed in Yang (form), and thus understand neither.

 

The Lingam is not a phallus, but is Form,...likewise, yoni is not a vagina, but is Emptiness. When the ignorant view a representation of a yoni, they describe it by what is around it, they do not describe the yoni itself.

 

Visualize a keyhole for a moment, one of those slotted holes that can be peeped through, as in old Colonial and Victorian houses. Now, describe that hole. Some may say that it has the shape of a circle with a rectangle whose width is smaller than the diameter of the circle aligned on the bottom; others could respond that the hole is surrounded by a brass plate that is attached to the door, which is connected to the wall, etc. Perhaps the hole could be looked through, so one could remark about what is seen on the other side. However, none of that actually describes the hole; all of the preceding descriptions are narratives about what is around or can be seen through the hole. Nevertheless, that is how most persons, especially Westerners and scientists, perceive their own wholeness: by what is around it.

 

To understand absolute compassion, as per the 9 sources in the top post, you must realize that wholeness is not what's around it, which is Form, and yet there is no Form without the Empty of the Wholeness.

 

Realizing that Form is Empty, and Empty is Form, uncovers Oneness,...neither of which is the Tao. The Tao contains no primordial energy.

"the Tao doesn't come and go."

[三江源]

Many today are media-ted to believe that the truth can be spoken in few words,...perhaps,...but in the world of ignorance, it takes many more words to point to truth, than to point to the beliefs that make ego palatable.

 

The top post is quite explicit,...stop seeking compassion,...for until you understand from which it arises, your seeking is useless.

 

 

 

OK, thanks, VMarco.

 

 

[Aaron]

The original question was this, "....compassion and I was wondering if you could point me in the direction of some good source material? I would like to examine it from a multicultural perspective..."

 

There is a saying, "Don't seek for love, but seek and find all the barriers you have built against it."

 

The 9 source materials, in the top post, regarding compassion, are suggesting the same thing,...if you desire to understand compassion as 1. HH Dalai Lama, 2. Shantideva, 3. Lojong, 4. Robert Thurman, 5. Chögyam Trungpa, 6. Sakyamuni, 7. Sogyal Rinpoche, 8. Sharon Salzberg, 9. Kenchen Thrangu Rinpoche understand it, then seek and find that which will enable you to understand it beyond the relative, or 6 senses.

 

The 9 sources pointed to in the top post are considered non-religious. As this is a Tao forum, neither common, nor Christian, Muslem, or Hindu definitions were included.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "...religions are desperate, clever, human inventions; the Intregal Way is a deep expression of the whole...religions rely on hypnotic manipulation of undeveloped minds; the Intregal Way is founded on the free transmission of immutable truth."

To conclude,...because you do not appreciate what the 9 sources in the top post are pointing to, you believe (as per your above post) it is clear that 1. HH Dalai Lama, 2. Shantideva, 3. Lojong, 4. Robert Thurman, 5. Chögyam Trungpa, 6. Sakyamuni, 7. Sogyal Rinpoche, 8. Sharon Salzberg, 9. Kenchen Thrangu Rinpoche have no understanding of compassion. For me on the other hand, what is clear, is the outright avoidance of the message of the top post.

 

Actually I wasn't making a comment regarding the sources you pointed at, but rather the responses made by people in regards to them. I particularly appreciate Sharon Salzberg's description of compassion, but it still is only a half truth in regards to compassion, because compassion, in its highest form does not see injustice, nor justice, for those are moral obligations that have no sway over high virtue. High virtue is not an intellectual action based on morality, but rather simply an action derived, not from sentimentality, but rather empathy derived from an innate understanding of one's connection to the One, Source, Tao, Emptiness, or whatever you choose to call it. High virtue is an impulse that stems from an awareness of the actuality of who you are and what you are, the one, so when one acts in this way, it is not to prove someone wrong or another right, it is not to say, "you are killing others and need to punished", but rather it is the action that prevents others from causing harm or eases the suffering of others. To say that you acted compassionately in order to end injustice, is essentially saying that you did it for a moral reason and thus the act came from the ego and not the Source or one's awareness of their being the Source.

 

Aaron

 

edit- You also quoted me out of context, I stated that I was intending to write a book about compassion. I intend to examine it from the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Taoist, and Muslim view, but the book isn't about the ideal, but the idea of what Compassion actually is and how we choose to describe it. In every religion the Creator is always compassionate, yet man places moral qualities on the act of compassion, which essentially means those acts are compassionate in a humanistic sense, but ultimately fall short of the actuality of compassion as it arises from our original nature.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Twinner

[Aaron]

This is only one of several ways to understand 'compassion' from the Eastern perspective.

 

Compassion is much more than a mere mental status which one trains to develop and then direct towards altruistic motives and actions. In Buddhist tantra, it is said that Compassion is the primordial energy that supports and evolute the whole of existence, and if one wishes to align one's life with the aim for balance and harmony, then all of one's thoughts, words and deeds could/should be observed moment to moment (developing the practice of mind, whereafter one merges (in the heart) or dissolves back into this universal energetic field. There, one may have access to all the joyful states one wishes, be it bliss, deep peace, strength of spirit, empathy, boundless energy to do good and feeding off the positive returns of one's actions, always having the wish to relief the misfortunes of others, and last but not least, even after performing the highest virtues, realizes that not one deed has been done, nothing has been achieved, and nothing has been lost.

 

Understandably, this is also one of a few very basic views pertaining to a very vast subject.

 

I would say my explanation of compassion is the actual reality of compassion, in the sense of delineating the actual source of compassion from the act of compassion as it is viewed by the ego and self. Compassion cannot be trained or cultivated in the sense that it is something that is taught, rather it is something that is awakened through an understanding of one's connection to the One, Source, etc. We have the capacity for High Compassion within us, in fact we come into this world as human beings with the knowledge, yet it is the creation of the ego and the rationalization of our existence as being separate from the whole that causes us to forget that it is still there.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

[Aaron]

You were quoted, word for word, C&P, within the context appropriate for a personal message. It would have been inappropriate to include your intent to write a book.

 

The words "One and Empty" should not be included in the same sentence as "Source and Tao." One and Empty are impermanent constructs, whereas Source and Tao have no connection with One and Empty, except that from Source and Tao they effect the illusion of their motion in space/time.

 

This point is being made because real compassion understands the relationship between the absolute and the relative. Thus, a truly compassionate person would not intermix the terms "One, Source, Tao, Emptiness, or whatever you choose to call it."

 

Any ego can write a view of compassion from ego's point of view,...but to write a view of compassion from compassions point of view would require your liberation from a 6 sense viewpoint.

 

As for the comment on morality,...a Tantric Buddhist said it well:

 

"Morality can only be imposed from without when we are asleep. It can only be pseudo, false, a façade, it cannot become your real being…morality is bound to be nothing but a deep suppression. You cannot do anything while asleep; you can only suppress. And through morality, you will become false. You will not be a person, but simply a "persona"—just a pseudo-entity. . . . Only a dishonest person can be moral."

 

A compassionate person would not write any of this... fact and point. A compassionate person would see the struggle of egos within this thread and steer clear. I think that's the real point here, everything being described and defined falls short, since high compassion is almost impossible to define, since it has no motivation based on ego, hence it does not strive for justice or injustice, it sees all things as equal and it's intent is for the benefit of the whole, not the parts of the whole. One who acts compassionately with the whole's benefit does not strive to end a war or start a war, to teach what is right or what is moral, rather it endeavors to ease the suffering of those that it can for the benefit of the whole. It does so because it is beneficial to the whole.

 

So those who lay down paths of conduct and ways of thinking have fallen short of high compassion and rather dwell in the realms of low compassion. Anytime you speak of high compassion in the context of justice, or right, or good and bad, then you have ceased to speak of it, for it is none of these things.

 

In regards to the sources, they were nice, but I was more interested in actual books about the topic, and not so much random quotes. I would like to understand the context of the discussion of compassion, rather than just the bits and pieces of those discussions. I do thank you for taking the time to post them and I am not unappreciative, rather I was explaining my own view as it conflicts with the view of the posts you've made.

 

Ironically, I think most of the Buddhists that you quoted would agree with me on the general principle. However since this forum is very much based on the ego constructs battling of wits, most seem to misunderstand the underlying nature of compassion, since they relate it very much to their ego self, rather than their whole self.

 

Also I said, Tao, Source, One, etc. in order to explain it in the context of various understandings of what people believe to be "it", rather than say, I know what "it" is and you don't.

 

Aaron

Edited April 12, 2012 by Twinner

[C T]

Hi Twinner,

 

Delighted to hear of your aspiration! May it bear fruit!!

 

Found this talk by a Buddhist monk on the subject. You may be able to gain an extra perspective to help you along the way:

 

[Owledge]

'Feeling compassion for someone who is not suffering, because you know in the future they are going to fall into suffering.' The monk only addressed this in one sentence, when he talked about having pity for what they are going through.

 

Are they suppressing their pain in order to avoid suffering? Or is that process still creating suffering on a deeper level? Even if not: Basing your compassion on the expectation that they will eventually suffer sounds weird to me. Maybe they will die without allowing themselves to 'suffer'.

 

Personally, if I had the strength and means to help someone who is considered "evil", then that would come from an understanding that if that person was helped and thus enabled to not suppress their pain any longer, they would be happier afterwards, and other people would not have to suffer under their behavior that is derived from suppression of pain. Helping one person to reduce their suffering has a ripple effect.

I am aware that this is somewhat more active than that passive state of non-cruelty, but here's a thought: Cruelty as used by that monk seems to mean malice, because you can also act in a way intended to help someone, and then that other person is choosing to suffer, is being cruel to themselves. So it's a 50/50 thing in those cases. Unintentional cruelty, if you will.

You know, pain is a sensation, suffering is a choice.

Apparently, from the monk's view, compassion is not rooted in the desire to reduce suffering, because that would be an agenda, and, well, a desire.

 

I totally agree with that monk regarding permanent compassion being a result of wisdom.