'New' Enlightened Master On The Scene?

[flowing hands]

I am so glad you are no longer associated with this shoddy little 'school'. Back when you were teaching they must have been sort of authentic.

 

http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/news/7989269.Martial_arts_guru_jailed_for_an_insurance_scam/

 

 

Thanks for the 'setting free' offer, but no thanks. Maybe some other time..

Good work! I knew this guy what a shocker and I suspected that something was up and I moved over back in 1999, to the BCCMA who were better organised.

[flowing hands]

Corrective note: The 63K plus members do not belong to the BNMAA - This guy set up the BNMAA, according to the report, from his home, and targeted the Derby-based Amateur Martial Association's members, apparently that number of them, to sell them compulsory fight insurance, but the circumstances seem to suggest that he had already plotted the whole con job well ahead, and for the plan to work, he had to appear 'legit' which explains setting up the BNMAA. I doubt this 'association' even has members, or maybe were selling false accreditations to unsuspecting idiots. (sorry, flowing hands).

 

The first thing which struck me as odd and aroused my suspicion when i viewed the cert was the use of the non-existent word 'creditation', which prompted me to dig further. Lesson: Never trust any cert which uses suspect words that dont exist! HA!

Paul Griffin did actually start out legit and he took on board a lot of schools. At the time when I started teaching in the early 90's, insurance was very difficult to get as a traditional independent Chinese school. The BCCMA were so elitist that you had to pay them a huge fee to demonstrate your art and then they would decide whether they wanted you or not, whether or not you were any good or not. Thankfully it has been all change, so when I joined they already knew of me and ratified me straightaway. I actually became so well known and respected that when I walked into the national championships as a spectator they asked me to do some judging! I still get people ring me up even after ten years or so, asking whether I would teach them!

So one was left with the AMA, Combat sports worlwide, BNMAA, and BACMA who were an off shoot of Comabt sports worldwide for Chinese martial arts. Paul Griffin appears to have dissolved CSW and replaced it with BNMAA. At the time before moving over to the BCCMA, I had to take insurance for my students from what seemed to be a well organised and genuine body, who issued genuine certificates of insurance from a contactable insurance company. At that time, I wanted to teach my students archery and we needed to be covered for that. Paul Griffin gave me the insurance brokers name and number which I spoke to, who were a genuine insurance company like Sun Life. I think he obviously became corrupt after this period and that's a great shame because he was a genuine martial artist. I know that we were covered by genuine insurance at that time, because I communicated with the company.

I cannot find my certificate from the BCCMA, who ratify me as 'Master' Level and I can't really ask the Monkey God to do a certificate really, just to satisfy your curiosity!! At some point I will put on a video of myself, practicing the Monkey God's arts, but I am not turning that which is sacred into a circus just to satisfy your disbelief!

 

Now just because Paul Griffin has become corrupt it doesn't mean that all the genuine schools that took insurance and took their grades with him are also corrupt and not genuine. Even worse than this. There was a local man who started up a Karate school. Had a huge amount of students, made claim to lots of things, took peoples money for lessons and insurance and after many years it was found out that he had once had a Karate lesson but nothing else and had fooled all those people into believing in him. I once met him and thought straight away, 'he's no martial artist', but he claimed to be a champion. When I told him that I ran a school of traditional Chinese martial arts and would be interested in coming to see what he did he made excuses why I couldn't come. I read later that he had been sent to prison for fraud and dishonesty. But all those hundreds of genuine people were left in disbelief who had spent their time and cash on this person.

Paul Griffin accredited my Master title as he did to all of the instructors under his association to what ever grade they were at. We as instructors were not aware that he would then in subsequent years turn out to be fraudulent.

Edited April 25, 2012 by flowing hands

[C T]

It appears things have not changed much in the martial world since ancestral times.

 

Not saying thats good or bad.

[Aaron]

Looking back at the posts it would seem that you started the agro between the both of you. You were provocative I guess because of previous encounters. From what you have written here you seem to think you know far more than anyone else and take it on board that you are all wise to dish out the dirt on someone else.

 

The compassionate hammer... new style of Buddhism according to Twinner. Not heard of this style before what's the new sutra?

 

"I will hammer in sense into this person and if they don't get it before I have destroyed them, well its bad luck" Repeat as many times to cultivate this new compassion.

 

I'm not a Buddhist. Compassion is easing someone else's suffering. That may require allowing someone to suffer first or even causing suffering, so that in the grand scheme they might be free of what is causing them to suffer. Sometimes if someone else is causing others to suffer, then you have to decide what to do with them. I'm making a compassionate decision based on these things. Lacking the teaching of the monkey god, I have to behave as a normal person who has simply grown up in one life time would.

 

Also, I think your grasp of Taoism is rudimentary. You have an understanding, but only those things that remain on the surface. Perhaps in certain circles you impress people, but you don't impress me. Again, I haven't spoken up about this or your claims of being an immortal because I didn't feel it was necessary, but since you are attacking my own understanding, I think it's important to make clear that you may have yourself fooled, but that doesn't mean you're fooling anyone else.

 

There are many people on here I would be willing to learn from, you however aren't one of them. You're brand of Taoism strays from the authentic teachings. Of course since you've been ordained by the Gods I suppose you have a right. If you want to continue to push, I will be more than willing to push back, but I don't think this is a fight you'll win, so I would suggest you go back to your corner and talk with those people who find you fashionably quaint.

 

Aaron

Edited April 26, 2012 by Twinner

[三江源]

Do you guys actually get off on bickering?

 

 

 

also.. another Pisces Moon here.

[konchog uma]

Do you guys actually get off on bickering?

also.. another Pisces Moon here.

 

has anyone else noticed that every post that has any substance here gets to about 50 posts *at most* of actual discussion and then descends into petty bickering!?

 

it really detracts from the quality of TTB. I guess i noticed it when i would read posts before i was a poster myself, but now that i am actually involved in discussions, its more annoying.

 

how hard is it to respect your fellow human beings even if you don't agree with them, like them, believe them, etc?! For all the criticism of religion and buddhism in general, this sort of infantile behavior doesn't happen 1/20th as often on buddhist forums. hahaha Just Sayin

 

nothin personal twinner, its everywhere, its not just you

[flowing hands]

I'm not a Buddhist. Compassion is easing someone else's suffering. That may require allowing someone to suffer first or even causing suffering, so that in the grand scheme they might be free of what is causing them to suffer. Sometimes if someone else is causing others to suffer, then you have to decide what to do with them. I'm making a compassionate decision based on these things. Lacking the teaching of the monkey god, I have to behave as a normal person who has simply grown up in one life time would.

 

Also, I think your grasp of Taoism is rudimentary. You have an understanding, but only those things that remain on the surface. Perhaps in certain circles you impress people, but you don't impress me. Again, I haven't spoken up about this or your claims of being an immortal because I didn't feel it was necessary, but since you are attacking my own understanding, I think it's important to make clear that you may have yourself fooled, but that doesn't mean you're fooling anyone else.

 

There are many people on here I would be willing to learn from, you however aren't one of them. You're brand of Taoism strays from the authentic teachings. Of course since you've been ordained by the Gods I suppose you have a right. If you want to continue to push, I will be more than willing to push back, but I don't think this is a fight you'll win, so I would suggest you go back to your corner and talk with those people who find you fashionably quaint.

 

Aaron

Well I'm not going to argue with you, you obviously know all there is to know your piece here speaks volumes about yourself! My rudimentary understanding thought, (as yet I have not gone any deeper than what has been thrown up)that to be a follower of the Tao one had to be completely open and able, not arrogant and dismissive, underhand, insulting and aggressive. My limited understanding showed me that it was the soft and the yielding that overcame the hard and the strong, something you don't appear to have grasped. but as you say what do I know about the Tao?

[C T]

Well I'm not going to argue with you, you obviously know all there is to know your piece here speaks volumes about yourself! My rudimentary understanding thought, (as yet I have not gone any deeper than what has been thrown up)that to be a follower of the Tao one had to be completely open and able, not arrogant and dismissive, underhand, insulting and aggressive. My limited understanding showed me that it was the soft and the yielding that overcame the hard and the strong, something you don't appear to have grasped. but as you say what do I know about the Tao?

If not for the hard and the strong, of what use is the soft and the yielding?

[Stosh]

My limited understanding showed me that it was the soft and the yielding that overcame the hard and the strong, something you don't appear to have grasped. but as you say what do I know about the Tao?

My even MORE limited understanding of Tao says that the tao doesnt take sides, has no bias for either the soft or the hard, It doesnt care if a man is harsh or mild, its benevolence is equally spread. It is only the bias of men that makes one approach things such as they do,and makes us defend what we see as good and revile what we see as bad , ALL ILLUSIONS, that is TRUE! But so what! if the very deluded nature of man is his basis of virtue.

[Aaron]

has anyone else noticed that every post that has any substance here gets to about 50 posts *at most* of actual discussion and then descends into petty bickering!?

 

it really detracts from the quality of TTB. I guess i noticed it when i would read posts before i was a poster myself, but now that i am actually involved in discussions, its more annoying.

 

how hard is it to respect your fellow human beings even if you don't agree with them, like them, believe them, etc?! For all the criticism of religion and buddhism in general, this sort of infantile behavior doesn't happen 1/20th as often on buddhist forums. hahaha Just Sayin

 

nothin personal twinner, its everywhere, its not just you

 

 

I guess I don't take people spouting off truths without examining them to be truths. A lot of people seem to appreciate what I do, so the few detractors should be aware that without conflict there can be no peace. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it all, there just is, everything else is something we've placed a value to. You value your peace, but is it really even peace?

 

I'm particularly annoyed by people who know the truth, since every truth is a lie. So they spout their truth, but what good is it doing? I am merely sharing my understanding of the Tao, and I have yet to see anyone that's disproved my interpretations. If you want peace, so be it, If you want me to go, just say the word. I am not going to stay someplace where I am not wanted, there's so much to do and not do and my purpose here isn't to breed conflict or bicker, but call people on what I see as baseless accusations, prophecies, and beliefs, especially ones that might cause people harm.

 

Belief is the real problem here. Stop believing and just start doing and I think you'll find peace will find it's way, but of course you need to understand that beneath that peace there will always be conflict. You can't have one without the other.

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2012 by Twinner

[Aaron]

Well I'm not going to argue with you, you obviously know all there is to know your piece here speaks volumes about yourself! My rudimentary understanding thought, (as yet I have not gone any deeper than what has been thrown up)that to be a follower of the Tao one had to be completely open and able, not arrogant and dismissive, underhand, insulting and aggressive. My limited understanding showed me that it was the soft and the yielding that overcame the hard and the strong, something you don't appear to have grasped. but as you say what do I know about the Tao?

 

That's your first problem, you're trying to follow the Tao, but it can't be followed. When you understand what this means, then you'll start to understand what Lao Tzu was talking about. Or maybe the monkey god can explain it to you, that might be easier.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

That's your first problem, you're trying to follow the Tao, but it can't be followed. When you understand what this means, then you'll start to understand what Lao Tzu was talking about. Or maybe the monkey god can explain it to you, that might be easier.

 

Aaron

 

Many would say that this is cerebral, or at the least being too picky with words. However, the words needed to discuss Heart-Mind, which itself is ultimately a phenomena of Conscious Oneness, is more specific then the languages of law, biology, and physics combined.

 

And yet,...although people been media-ted to believe that to be a lawyer, one must be proficient in law,...to be a physicist, one must be proficient in physics,...but for some reason, many believe the subject of Who they are needs no proficiency, and can be answered and discussed with the vocabulary of the 6 senses.

[konchog uma]

You value your peace, but is it really even peace?

 

hahaha as surely as your "necessary conflict" is what it is

 

Belief is the real problem here.

 

no petty self importance is the problem. Lets not get carried away.

 

you can write a lot of logically contorted verbage about how you have every right to behave pettily because others are [fill in the blank]. You've chosen to um believe that others believe... and that gives you, who see yourself above such beliefs, the right to speak to them in whatever way your ego sees fit. But at the end of the day youre still a bad example of how to treat others, and all your doing is blaming everyone but yourself for your behavior.

 

I just figured you might appreciate that, since you seem to champion calling spades spades. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that as clever as your words are, they still don't excuse lack of integrity or virtue. So spin it all you want, convince yourself that its necessary (only for your ego), but in the final analysis treating people poorly is still treating people poorly.

 

I really wasn't making any personal remarks against you, and i'm not going to write more than that about it. again, Just Sayin. All the bickering really ruins this forum sometimes. I can see exactly why cameron left 25 times.

[Aaron]

hahaha as surely as your "necessary conflict" is what it is

 

 

 

no petty self importance is the problem. Lets not get carried away.

 

you can write a lot of logically contorted verbage about how you have every right to behave pettily because others are [fill in the blank]. You've chosen to um believe that others believe... and that gives you, who see yourself above such beliefs, the right to speak to them in whatever way your ego sees fit. But at the end of the day youre still a bad example of how to treat others, and all your doing is blaming everyone but yourself for your behavior.

 

I just figured you might appreciate that, since you seem to champion calling spades spades. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that as clever as your words are, they still don't excuse lack of integrity or virtue. So spin it all you want, convince yourself that its necessary (only for your ego), but in the final analysis treating people poorly is still treating people poorly.

 

I really wasn't making any personal remarks against you, and i'm not going to write more than that about it. again, Just Sayin. All the bickering really ruins this forum sometimes. I can see exactly why cameron left 25 times.

 

 

Hahaha... I actually wrote a longer explanation before I decided to just point out that you should examine your own responses to others. I'm not going to do it for you, but you're not so clad in white either my friend. Heh... And I'm rarely every insulting or rude, I just point out what I believe needs to be pointed out. Tulku is harmful to himself and others. Flowing Hands is, in my opinion, not an immortal. I didn't even bother talking to Flowing Hands about that, until he came on and admonished me for my misunderstanding of Taoism.

 

I don't just randomly pick people to admonish, they have to do something I feel is harmful to get my attention. If you hang around long enough you'll see that.

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2012 by Twinner

[konchog uma]

you can turn it back on me, but my points still stand, even if they are unaddressed.

 

flowing hands never said he was immortal.

 

im done talking to you about this.

[C T]

 

flowing hands never said he was immortal.

 

Ha! but he did make some pretty s e r i o u s claims in post 63.

 

If they be true, hmm.. we could be on to the next dorje chang buddha the 4th.

 

Suddenly, they seem to be popping up all over the place...

[flowing hands]

Ha! but he did make some pretty s e r i o u s claims in post 63.

 

If they be true, hmm.. we could be on to the next dorje chang buddha the 4th.

 

Suddenly, they seem to be popping up all over the place...

You are a misguided person! There are many holymen and women who practice silently and are the followers of various Immortals and Buddha's, but unlike me they don't put themselves forward on the internet to talk to others and share what they have been taught. Most people have to earn that right by proving themselves worthy. Have you proved yourself worthy to openly question whether I am the student of Immortals? It seems to me you have very limited experience and understanding. With that said I would personally stop trying to find holes and weaknesses and start opening your limited mind to possibilities. I am also done with talking to you!

Edited April 27, 2012 by flowing hands

[Apech]

*** Moderator Message ***

 

Could you please ease up on the bickering.

 

Be nice. Stay calm. Love is all around.

 

Many people read these threads (guests and so on) with genuine interest but they don't give a damn who wins an argument.

 

Thank you ... carry on.

 

*** Mod Message ends ***

[C T]

You are a misguided person! There are many holymen and women who practice silently and are the followers of various Immortals and Buddha's, but unlike me they don't put themselves forward on the internet to talk to others and share what they have been taught. Most people have to earn that right by proving themselves worthy. Have you proved yourself worthy to openly question whether I am the student of Immortals? It seems to me you have very limited experience and understanding. With that said I would personally stop trying to find holes and weaknesses and start opening your limited mind to possibilities.

Yes, i agree... seeing 'me' thru your eyes, i would say the exact same thing.

 

Having said right from the outset that your truth is my prison, I have not attempted, in any of my posts since, to be disingenuous and/or hypocritical by insinuating in any way, shape or form that i am more realized than you. What i dont understand is why do you still see the need to be defensive, when in truth, i have not attempted to undermine your claims at all? I merely stated that you had made some far-out declarations in said post, and have as yet to verify the accuracy of said claims.

 

Its natural for claims to be questioned. Its always good to maintain a relatively splendid acumen which one can use to question and learn about things.

 

This is an internet forum. The only qualification one needs to pose questions, as far as i can tell, is to register as a user and say a few words in the lobby.

 

Phat!

Edited April 27, 2012 by C T

[Aaron]

you can turn it back on me, but my points still stand, even if they are unaddressed.

 

flowing hands never said he was immortal.

 

im done talking to you about this.

 

Thank you!

 

Aaron

 

edit- Oh and Flowing Hands has said in other threads that he is or has been an immortal. I don't just make this stuff up you know.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Twinner

[Vmarco]

[Aetherous]

What in God's holy name are you guys blathering about?

[C T]

What in God's holy name are you guys blathering about?

Not everyone drinks beer.

 

 

[Aetherous]

They're out of their element.

[flowing hands]

Thank you!

 

Aaron

 

edit- Oh and Flowing Hands has said in other threads that he is or has been an immortal. I don't just make this stuff up you know.

Lets get our facts right I have never said that I was Immortal, but I have said that I was an Immortal in my last life, that's where I get my spiritual name from. A huge difference!!!

 

A reincarnated God is the spirit or energy of that God that is reborn again to a mortal life.

Edited April 29, 2012 by flowing hands