'New' Enlightened Master On The Scene?

[flowing hands]

What is your definition of an immortal?

 

And if an "immortal" reincarnates and can lose his immortality, was it immortality to begin with?

 

 

During a mortal life, one can cultivate oneself so that when the body dies the spirit or energy inside each cell is set free. Having cultivated wisdom and to the level of true enlightenment the 'spirit' is then realized as 'Immortal' in respects that it remains as a powerful spirit for eternity. If an Immortal reincarnates it is for a very good reason. They give up a life of endless bliss to help the world by becoming mortal again.

[Aaron]

Lets get our facts right I have never said that I was Immortal, but I have said that I was an Immortal in my last life, that's where I get my spiritual name from. A huge difference!!!

 

A reincarnated God is the spirit or energy of that God that is reborn again to a mortal life.

 

Oh wow. You left bliss for me? Have you heard of Jesus, he left heaven to do the same thing. I guess I should be thankful that you would sacrifice so much to save us unworthy unappreciative souls. I mean how often do I get the chance to actually talk to a savior, I guess I should be more respectful, because you wouldn't lie about such a thing. <---- Sarcasm to show how absurd your claims are.

 

I would suggest that you need to examine your life and the reason why you feel you need to be more than just a normal person. If you examine your motivations and trace them back to their roots, I think you'll find that at some point you didn't receive enough attention and now you're trying to make up for that in an exaggerated fashion. I don't blame you for believing what you do, but I would recommend some serious introspection, because it can't be helping you in the long run, nor will duping others into believing your delusions help them.

 

 

Aaron

[flowing hands]

Oh wow. You left bliss for me? Have you heard of Jesus, he left heaven to do the same thing. I guess I should be thankful that you would sacrifice so much to save us unworthy unappreciative souls. I mean how often do I get the chance to actually talk to a savior, I guess I should be more respectful, because you wouldn't lie about such a thing. <---- Sarcasm to show how absurd your claims are.

 

I would suggest that you need to examine your life and the reason why you feel you need to be more than just a normal person. If you examine your motivations and trace them back to their roots, I think you'll find that at some point you didn't receive enough attention and now you're trying to make up for that in an exaggerated fashion. I don't blame you for believing what you do, but I would recommend some serious introspection, because it can't be helping you in the long run, nor will duping others into believing your delusions help them.

 

 

Aaron

 

Get a life; you can't even face the facts that you have been wrong in your words what hope is there for you? On this thread so many people have have tried to tell you what you are like. But not the biggest hint has even moved your mountainous ego. I have been a Holyman for 28 years, practicing on my own and never telling anyone or involving them. 24 years ago I was shown what was to come of the world. I care about all life and so I have decided as the time is drawing near to do my best to prevent this happening. Frankly, I couldn't give a toss what you think, because what you think doesn't count for anything, it is because I care for all life not just for humans that I am talking to an i...t (fill in the gaps for yourself)like you, but you are doing a great job of showing what an i...t you are on this thread by keep going on about how wonderful and all knowing you are about everything and that I'm just a deluded fraudster. For your information I have been shown many things that have then come true. This is why I am making the effort, your attempts to derail whatever I say will not go down very well with the Immortal masters. Through me they are trying to save life, think about it. Any body with even the slightest bit of knowledge would not say the things you are saying. The Immortal masters can see what is to come, you can't even see yourself.

[C T]

Get a life; you can't even face the facts that you have been wrong in your words what hope is there for you? On this thread so many people have have tried to tell you what you are like. But not the biggest hint has even moved your mountainous ego. I have been a Holyman for 28 years, practicing on my own and never telling anyone or involving them. 24 years ago I was shown what was to come of the world. I care about all life and so I have decided as the time is drawing near to do my best to prevent this happening. Frankly, I couldn't give a toss what you think, because what you think doesn't count for anything, it is because I care for all life not just for humans that I am talking to an i...t (fill in the gaps for yourself)like you, but you are doing a great job of showing what an i...t you are on this thread by keep going on about how wonderful and all knowing you are about everything and that I'm just a deluded fraudster. For your information I have been shown many things that have then come true. This is why I am making the effort, your attempts to derail whatever I say will not go down very well with the Immortal masters. Through me they are trying to save life, think about it. Any body with even the slightest bit of knowledge would not say the things you are saying. The Immortal masters can see what is to come, you can't even see yourself.

Honestly, i think you are heavily deluded as well, but i could be wrong.

 

Its always good when someone strives with determination to help ease others' afflictions. A noble aspiration worthy of encouragement and respect.

 

I'd be interested to know what are some of the projects you have undertaken, in an altruistic sense, so that we may better gauge with more accuracy your self-labelled 'holy' status? Which lineage are you affiliated with? (If any - Please verify clearly).

 

Example, I have friends who volunteer their holidays each year to work with charities in Sudan and other parts of Africa where they help to build houses etc for the disadvantaged folks there. But they dont consider themselves any holier than anyone else. I also have friends who work with the dying and bereavement counseling, yet they dont claim to be any more spiritual than others. And still others who work with disadvantaged and troubled teens, being on call 24/7 due to the nature of the work, yet they dont think they are any more elevated than others. On the contrary, with these people, when you talk to them or get more connected with them, one sees that their humility is actually quite palpable.

 

There is cause for some reservations and doubts, Flowing Hands... your words somehow does not seem to fit the image. There are many many slicks out there, all with notorious/selfish motives, so its always good to be careful and retain a degree of skepticism. So, what is it that you have done/achieved that sets you apart? After all, 'holy man' is not a title to be taken lightly nor bestowed without consequence.

Edited April 29, 2012 by C T

[C T]

.dbl post/

Edited April 29, 2012 by C T

[Aetherous]

Flowing Hands,

 

Please make your own thread to discuss yourself.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Oh wow. You left bliss for me? Have you heard of Jesus, he left heaven to do the same thing. I guess I should be thankful that you would sacrifice so much to save us unworthy unappreciative souls. I mean how often do I get the chance to actually talk to a savior, I guess I should be more respectful, because you wouldn't lie about such a thing. <---- Sarcasm to show how absurd your claims are.

 

I would suggest that you need to examine your life and the reason why you feel you need to be more than just a normal person. If you examine your motivations and trace them back to their roots, I think you'll find that at some point you didn't receive enough attention and now you're trying to make up for that in an exaggerated fashion. I don't blame you for believing what you do, but I would recommend some serious introspection, because it can't be helping you in the long run, nor will duping others into believing your delusions help them.

 

 

Aaron

 

Aaron,

 

If someone signs in on TTB and says they are a Christian pastor, would you immediately assume that they are trying to misrepresent themselves in order to receive misguided respect from people?

 

Consider that what you know, believe, or understand about the complex varieties of Taoism may not be as complete and comprehensive as the many traditions which exist around the world. For you to claim a superiority of knowledge of the matter is, for me, far less reasonable than the metaphysical views of an initiate about the nature of re-incarnation and Taoist Immortality (a relationship which does exist, btw. I would have to find it, but there is mention in an early scripture about Immortals being able to choose reincarnation in our mortal world if they are so compelled).

 

To question the validity of complex metaphysical views is up to you, but being opinionated about anything so far beyond mere intellectual comprehension, and so far removed from your actual knowledge or experience, really doesn't seem like a strategic approach to finding any truth.

[Protector]

Flowing Hands,

 

Please make your own thread to discuss yourself.

 

There are already two threads like that

keep count

[Aaron]

Get a life; you can't even face the facts that you have been wrong in your words what hope is there for you? On this thread so many people have have tried to tell you what you are like. But not the biggest hint has even moved your mountainous ego. I have been a Holyman for 28 years, practicing on my own and never telling anyone or involving them. 24 years ago I was shown what was to come of the world. I care about all life and so I have decided as the time is drawing near to do my best to prevent this happening. Frankly, I couldn't give a toss what you think, because what you think doesn't count for anything, it is because I care for all life not just for humans that I am talking to an i...t (fill in the gaps for yourself)like you, but you are doing a great job of showing what an i...t you are on this thread by keep going on about how wonderful and all knowing you are about everything and that I'm just a deluded fraudster. For your information I have been shown many things that have then come true. This is why I am making the effort, your attempts to derail whatever I say will not go down very well with the Immortal masters. Through me they are trying to save life, think about it. Any body with even the slightest bit of knowledge would not say the things you are saying. The Immortal masters can see what is to come, you can't even see yourself.

 

Umm... two people becomes so many? Maybe it's not so many, so much as a few who want everyone to hug and hand out flowers and giggle and love each other.

 

My mind isn't that closed, rather I see your interpretation of Tao as being flawed and created to validate your own distorted view of the world, which I see as dangerous, since anyone who follows your ideas is probably in for a world of confusion. Even with that said, I left you alone out of respect, because I saw it as only minimally dangerous and also realized most people would see through your BS right away. However, when you come on here and start criticizing me and deciding to teach me the values of virtue, when you bicker just as easily as anyone else on this forum, I had to laugh and step up and give you a bit of a reality check.

 

Also I don't believe that anyone that transcends this world can or would come back, there is no reason to. Nothing you do or I do can save someone else, because they DON'T NEED TO BE SAVED! That's your ego believing you are somehow special and that your involvement in their life will help them.

 

Here's a little biology lesson, the ego being that is you, resides within the brain cells of your body. When you die you can't take them with you to the next body, hence the reason people don't remember their previous lives. The energy that makes you up, Chi, whatever you want to call it, well that has no memory in it, just the life force/spirit that is you. So you were never an immortal in a previous life, nor did you make a conscious decision to come back, because outside of your body that kind of consciousness doesn't exist, rather you were a source of energy that invested itself within a human shell upon conception. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

I hope that clarifies things.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Aaron,

 

If someone signs in on TTB and says they are a Christian pastor, would you immediately assume that they are trying to misrepresent themselves in order to receive misguided respect from people?

 

Consider that what you know, believe, or understand about the complex varieties of Taoism may not be as complete and comprehensive as the many traditions which exist around the world. For you to claim a superiority of knowledge of the matter is, for me, far less reasonable than the metaphysical views of an initiate about the nature of re-incarnation and Taoist Immortality (a relationship which does exist, btw. I would have to find it, but there is mention in an early scripture about Immortals being able to choose reincarnation in our mortal world if they are so compelled).

 

To question the validity of complex metaphysical views is up to you, but being opinionated about anything so far beyond mere intellectual comprehension, and so far removed from your actual knowledge or experience, really doesn't seem like a strategic approach to finding any truth.

 

I not only claim, but I am confident I have a much better understanding of the Tao Te Ching than Flowing Hands. I read his translation, I've read his discussions, and I think most ten year olds that read his interpretation would see it for what it is. It's not that complex really, I just see someone who has decided to translate something to support his own agenda, for whatever reason. Maybe he wanted to be an instructor and he thinks this whole "immortal returned to save the world" routine will get him more students, either way, I'm not falling for it, nor am I going to sit back and let him lecture me on virtue.

 

If you've noticed, I didn't make any comments about this until he felt the need to come and enter this discussion. I left him alone and was very happy to be in a harmonious existence, he's stirred the pot and I'm just working to stop the pot from stirring, which may require me to stir it in the opposite direction.

 

I have no more animosity towards him than I do a five year old that comes by and picks one of the flowers in my yard because they think it's pretty. I may not have wanted it to be picked, but the child was only doing what they thought was right, however that doesn't stop me from educating that child in regards to why I don't want them picking my flowers.

 

Aaron

Edited April 29, 2012 by Twinner

[Edward M]

Just came back on the forum to request the mods to do a member cleanup or issue some more warnings... this thread has become a joke and i'm starting to feel this forum as a whole is becoming a joke.. sorry to be harsh.

 

Surely as spiritual practitioners we should be practicing tolerance and patience.

 

Here is a thought for you: there are two streams of karma and action, both going in opposite directions. One stream goes left and is action that brings bad karma to the doer and to the receiver. The other stream goes to the right and is action that brings good karma to the doer and to the receiver.

Which type of archetypal beings belong to which stream? i'm talking demons and angels, tyrants and saints etc the list goes on... you can argue all you want about non-duality etc, but you have a choice: which stream are you going to follow?

 

Peace

Ed

[Aaron]

Just came back on the forum to request the mods to do a member cleanup or issue some more warnings... this thread has become a joke and i'm starting to feel this forum as a whole is becoming a joke.. sorry to be harsh.

 

Surely as spiritual practitioners we should be practicing tolerance and patience.

 

Here is a thought for you: there are two streams of karma and action, both going in opposite directions. One stream goes left and is action that brings bad karma to the doer and to the receiver. The other stream goes to the right and is action that brings good karma to the doer and to the receiver.

Which type of archetypal beings belong to which stream? i'm talking demons and angels, tyrants and saints etc the list goes on... you can argue all you want about non-duality etc, but you have a choice: which stream are you going to follow?

 

Peace

Ed

 

You're absolutely right, a member clean up, or banning of members that don't agree with other members, regardless of whether they've violated the terms of service is... completely irresponsible and ridiculous. Nothing has happened in this thread that's any more significant than any other thread in the past. People just need to chill out and not take this so seriously. So I disagree with Flowing Hands and his representation of who he is, I have that right. So Tulku believes sex is preventing people from becoming enlightened or evolving spiritually, he has that right. Flowing Hands has the right to believe he's the chosen one of the immortals as well, and apparently to threaten that they will be coming after me for interfering in their plans. I'm not holding my breath, but regardless there is nothing wrong with any of us, we have a right to disagree and state whatever we want within the limits of the terms of service.

 

Tolerance and patience only go so far. If someone is running around murdering people, do we have tolerance and patience for them? Sometimes action is required to prevent others from being harmed. If I see someone's teaching as being potentially harmful and do nothing about it, then what kind of compassionate being am I?

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also I don't believe in karma or dharma, rather I believe in striving for harmonious living as much as possible. Karma and Dharma are essentially the methods of controlling people's actions in Buddhism and Hinduism, just like sin helps to dictate people's actions in Christianity.

 

Also keep in mind if Flowing Hands just quit responding to what's being said, then I wouldn't be continuing the conversation. As the emissary of immortals, I'd think he'd have the wisdom to see that little bit of Tao.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Twinner

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I not only claim, but I am confident I have a much better understanding of the Tao Te Ching than Flowing Hands.

 

Well, I am confident that his understanding of Taoism goes far beyond the the words of the Tao Te Ching. You might also benefit from expanding your knowledge of Taoism beyond this resource.

[Aaron]

Well, I am confident that his understanding of Taoism goes far beyond the the words of the Tao Te Ching. You might also benefit from expanding your knowledge of Taoism beyond this resource.

 

I'm certain he is following Taoism as a religion, what I'm talking about is Taoism as it was taught by Lao Tzu. I think anyone that understands the history of Taoism in China realizes that there are numerous traditions that teach varying beliefs regarding what is Taoism and what is not. In Flowing Hands case, he is not really a member of any of these traditions it seems, but rather he claims to be from a secret sect directed by immortals and that he came back to this world after achieving enlightenment and nirvana/bliss, all to save humanity. He also claims to have been taught by the monkey god and immortals, and yet he wants us to accept this on faith.

 

I have very little time for faith and I don't see any reason to believe that his translation of the Tao Te Ching or his comments regarding Taoism are accurate, even to the many different sects of Taoism. Rather he comes here believing that every Westerner is ignorant and that he can say something and we'll automatically accept it in our ignorance. I'm calling him out and asking him to prove what he has to say, to walk the walk, and not just talk.

 

I am more than willing to walk the walk. Ask anyone who interacts with me at work or my daily life whether I would be considered a compassionate person, and I doubt anyone would say no. I strive to be compassionate, but that doesn't mean I have to be naive or not defend myself and others against baseless claims.

 

Aaron

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Well, I don't see any reason to assume that he expects anything of you, or is doing anything more than stating his point of view as he sees it. Isn't that why we're here at TTB? to share and learn from all these different points of view?

 

Perhaps you might be projecting your own underlying con-ster before making a clear judgement about who he is..? I don't know. I just know that I'm wasting time that could be spent in the real world rather than publishing all my baseless conjectures about you in cyber space.

 

Passe une bonne soiree

[Aetherous]

Just came back on the forum to request the mods to do a member cleanup or issue some more warnings... this thread has become a joke and i'm starting to feel this forum as a whole is becoming a joke.. sorry to be harsh.

 

Surely as spiritual practitioners we should be practicing tolerance and patience.

 

I agree completely.

 

This thread has been absolutely derailed (it was originally about Francois Lepine, pages ago), and it wasn't merely the natural flow of discussion sort of veering off topic.

 

In other areas of the forum, you have people making multiple threads on exactly the same topic (political ones, or ALL of the tulku-threads).

 

Spring cleaning anyone???

[Protector]

[Apech]

*** Moderator Message ***

 

This is an open forum and the free flow of discussion is allowed. What is not allowed are personal attacks, insults and the deliberate hijacking or derailing of threads. When you guys descend to bickering and trying to have the last word ... well I just think you should consider how that looks to an outside audience (i.e. 100s of guest viewers) who are interested in what Taoism or other forms of spirituality can do for their lives.

 

Just in case you were wondering calling someone an i***t instead of just saying idiot is not ok. Whether you are mortal or immortal please do not do this kind of thing ... if it happens again I will be forced to take some kind of action.

 

I am impressed that people actually want 'spring cleaning' but do you really want the moderation team to start restructuring threads? I think we will only do this when it gets ridiculously confused.

 

The original subject has been lost. But how many threads could you say that of???

 

Please stop the bickering eh?

 

Thank you.

 

*** Apech for Mod Team ***

[三江源]

.

 

Also keep in mind if Flowing Hands just quit responding to what's being said, then I wouldn't be continuing the conversation.

 

Please explain how this is different from saying YOU NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP< BECAUSE I WONT.

[Aetherous]

The original subject has been lost. But how many threads could you say that of???

 

Well, this is at least the second one lately. The other being the red phoenix thread. How many more examples are needed til the mod team does something about the derailment issue?

 

And please don't try to say it's not an issue in this thread...that will just completely blow my mind to smithereens.

[Apech]

Well, this is at least the second one lately. The other being the red phoenix thread. How many more examples are needed til the mod team does something about the derailment issue?

 

And please don't try to say it's not an issue in this thread...that will just completely blow my mind to smithereens.

 

So I take it that you want us to step in each time a thread gets off topic ... interesting I will discuss with other mods your suggestion.

[Protector]

DERAILMENT IS NOT AN ISSUE, THAT'S HOW FORUMS WORK!

You can't make a new thread for no reason, you need to be moved to do that

When a thread is having a heated discussion people go up against each other and new issues that could not be thought about get brought up

Derailment should not be an issue on a Taoist forum, Tao that could be spoken in a forum is not an eternal Tao

Words are not truth, they are a tool that gets us closer.

LET THEM RUN FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

IN THE NAME OF ALL THE DERAILERS OUT THERE, I DERAIL THIS THREAD INTO A THREAD ABOUT DERAILMENT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aetherous]

Well, looking at this thread, with the exception of two posts by myself and anamatva, the discussion ended literally on page 1. And the pointlessness continued on to page 9, and here we are at 10. That is crazy to me.

 

For people who are interested in Francois Lepine (what this thread is supposed to be about), they have to wade through ALL of that to try and find relevant info. It's absolutely disrespectful and useless on behalf of the people that were involved here.

 

What happened is a lot different from an acceptable natural flow of discussion, which we can all recognize and differentiate from this (I assume). From my point of view, these people should have been told to make a new thread to continue whatever their little back and forth was about.

 

So it's not about increasing moderation and making sure all threads stay exactly on topic. I just wonder why there isn't effective moderation.

[Aetherous]

Consider...when a thread is having a heated discussion that's going way off topic, having to make a new thread will break it up a little, and those involved will not have the same momentum...then the moderators don't have to come in and babysit everyone so often, by saying "stop bickering, you're supposed to be spiritual" which is meaningless to anyone that's actually involved in the argument.

 

And this forum is unlike the other useless forums on the internet, so thread derailment should not be allowed or encouraged. My view.

 

And I'm right!

[Protector]

 

And I'm right!

 

You're wrong because I'm right!

 

 

(see, this forum is like other forums )