Summary of 14 years of Taoist Discussions

[Cameron]

I would like to leave something of potential value here so am going to take some time to write this. I am finished writing on Tao Bums after this. I won't answer PM's either so please don't write them.

 

I began my search 18 years ago. My path started with martial arts. After that I got into Zen. I saw my "true face" relatively early when I was 19. That was interesting. What I found out though was seeing your true nature is just the beginning of the path. The 'Ox hearding pictures' of Zen portray this very well.

 

After I got interested in Qigong I started to do online searches for "more". In retrospect it may have been better to simply practice all that I had been given at the age of 20 and be quiet about it. But the Taoist chat rooms drew me in.

 

Right from the getgo drama was a big part of this. Michael Winn and Eric Yudelove had their respective "systems" each approaching Taoist alchemy in a different way. But essentially following the same foundational work.

 

Eric's work looked very interesting but I found the behavior of the teacher made it impossible for me to really get into the system. Winn was a nice guy. Very easy going and friendly. I was an impressionable young guy in my 20's. So it was all good I suppose.

 

When the first online Taoist wars started way back then I became attracted to the drama. It was fun. Here was one super high level Tao practitioner critisizing another super high level Tao practitioner.

 

The actual differences in the systems and what the real issues were God only knows. I was a 23 year old clueless qigong lover and just found it interesting. Qigong Masters have ego's? Weeeeeeeeeee

 

It got to the point when too much had been said, too much mudslinging and confusion around Mantak Chias system. His two most Senior American students seemed to be saying different things. So I mostly ditched the practices all together.

 

I just returned to my qigong roots: Ken Cohen. He's as solid, down to Earth and approachable teacher as your ever going to meet. Friendly, no ego, intelligent. Ken is a real Qigong and Chinese Medicine ambassador. He stays out of online discussions entirely. A testament to his wisdom.

 

Later, I became interested in modern Advaita style teachers. Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle etc. I found there stuff to be great. But I still needed my Taoist fix! LOL

 

Enter my old friend Smile telling me on the phone 4 years ago " There is this amazing teacher named Sifu Max. He has attained Rainbow Body. I would definetly check him out."

 

I was quite happy with the path I was on. But you only live once. So I decided to go. I think it goes without saying we were all pretty clueless on who Max was and what we would learn. Chris entered the Tao Bums almost immedietly after my post and it sounded like Kunlun was the best thing ever. Like the Ben and Jerry's of cultivation paths!

 

From my first encounter with Max and Kan my feeling was I was now on a different path. Almost like everything I had done before was kind of a warm up. I doubt I was prepared for what I was given. I think Max just believed in me. I remember after recieving transmission from Max walking around the room in an almost completely different awareness. Max put his arm around my shoulder and told me " You are a martial artist, you can handle it."

 

It was intense but I made it. I couldn't with any honesty admit I would feel comfortable for others to experience what I did. To say the months after meeting Max were intense would be an understatement. It felt like I was being rewired by the universe or something.

 

Anyway, where this left me then and continues to leave me is in a permenent state of I DON'T KNOW. Not that I think I don't know. But I really, really don't know. The whole path as others have said seems to be one of surrender.

 

The path of no more learning. Very simple, blissful direct pointing to emptiness.

 

What is most useful in my view now is not engaging in discussions with other students. It doesn't matter what system we are each talking about. I don't care if your doing Healing Tao, BK Frantzis,, Spring Forest Qigong, Jenny Lamb, Michael Lomax, Tibetan Buddhism, Zen or whatever. As far as I can tell everyone basically has the same or very similar goals. We are just following different approaches.

 

Within that understanding I see respect and respecting eachothers path as especially important.

 

We are each complex creatures. With complex and emotional blocks, traumas, different challanges and struggling to find our way. I don't think it is fair to ourselves or our friends to put that struggle on other students. As far as I can tell most others on Tao Bums are also students struggling to find our way.

 

One thing I never tried to do is put any burden on other Tao Bums to help me spiritually. I was always very clear in myself the distinction between authentic spiritual teachers and online Taoist newbs full of ego.

 

I would say most people on here acting like teachers arent. They are doing more bad then good and would be better service to the community by simply stating that they have an ego, aren't actually verified as being enlightened by any lineage or given permission to teach on enlightenment by any lineage.

 

It's a disservice. Your not Englightened yet. Enlightened people have englightened teachers who verify there enlightenment. To pretend that your somebody your not on an internet chatroom is pure ego. We all know who Buddha and Lao Tzu are. No one is Buddha and Lao Tzu's representative here. Get a grip.

 

As a final note, If you are genunely interested in cultivation I sincerely and with all my heart hope you can connect with a living lineage and practice it. There are a few good ones, several being represented on Tao Bums. And I know this won't sit well with many people but if you really want to do this I think the best thing is to shut up and just follow what your teacher tells you until your enlightened.

 

My teacher in Japan I feel is a living example of a modern awakened person. He says very, very little and when he does say something as far as I can tell it is always helpful.

 

My teachers in China are the same way. Very much is communicated saying very little. I find these discussions can degenerate into very little good being communicated saying too much.

 

May your path lead you to your goal,

 

Cameron

Edited April 21, 2012 by Cameron

[Birch]

Bye Cam

[Marblehead]

May your journey be filled with love. (Don't forget to take a side-path now and then - there can be much beauty found there.)

[Apech]

Thank you for saying this.

 

Best wishes to you.

[de_paradise]

Yet another last post by Cam.

[RiverSnake]

Look forward to see how long this hiatus lasts....

 

------------------------------------

 

Edit: In addition i would like to add that many people on the forum seem to have the i am right your wrong, i am enlightened your not, my teacher is better than your teacher syndrome.

 

Such people whether highly cultivated or not obviously lack maturity. I feel that the only solution to those people is unconditional love, compassion....and the ignore post function: one of the most underused tools on the forum.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 22, 2012 by OldGreen

[Elliot]

Bye Cameron.

[baiqi]

道安 Peace in the Way!

[Friend]

[Aetherous]

.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Scotty

[joeblast]

Cam, I would happily drive following you around AZ with no worries these days You're a testament to sticking to it, brother Give me a shout next you visit sis and I'll swing down for some tea!

[gendao]

I began my search 18 years ago. My path started with martial arts. After that I got into Zen. I saw my "true face" relatively early when I was 19. That was interesting. What I found out though was seeing your true nature is just the beginning of the path. The 'Ox hearding pictures' of Zen portray this very well.

Fascinating! Could you explain what that experience was like??

After I got interested in Qigong I started to do online searches for "more".

 

Right from the getgo drama was a big part of this. Michael Winn and Eric Yudelove had their respective "systems" each approaching Taoist alchemy in a different way. But essentially following the same foundational work.

 

When the first online Taoist wars started way back then I became attracted to the drama.

 

I just returned to my qigong roots: Ken Cohen. He's as solid, down to Earth and approachable teacher as your ever going to meet. Friendly, no ego, intelligent.

 

But I still needed my Taoist fix! LOL

 

I was quite happy with the path I was on. But you only live once. So I decided to go.

 

It was intense but I made it. I couldn't with any honesty admit I would feel comfortable for others to experience what I did. To say the months after meeting Max were intense would be an understatement. It felt like I was being rewired by the universe or something.

 

Anyway, where this left me then and continues to leave me is in a permenent state of I DON'T KNOW. Not that I think I don't know. But I really, really don't know. The whole path as others have said seems to be one of surrender.

 

The path of no more learning. Very simple, blissful direct pointing to emptiness.

Awesome history, man! You are a living TB legend!

 

 

Anyhow, forgive me friend, but I couldn't resist but practice a little unsolicited psychoanalysis (or "triangulation") on this great personal essay of yours (keep in mind, the following could be totally wrong! ):

 

The common denominator to all our patterns is ourselves. There appears to be a pattern here of an inner conflict between seeking "more" and being content with "less." Hence, the ongoing vacillation between "grounded teachers of emptiness" and "dramatic showmen."

 

If so, leaving the "drama" here at TB won't resolve this - it will only follow you wherever you go, because you carry it within you.

 

The only way to resolve it, is to transcend the paradigm between "more" and "less." Kunlun was actually a step in this direction, because it was a "dramatic" path that promised both "more" (rainbow body, etc) and "less" ("very simple, blissful direct pointing to emptiness"). So, it sort of offered to combine both, in a slightly "schizophrenic" way.

 

But, so now you are at the stage of "I DON'T KNOW." Which I believe signifies an exasperated letting go of sticking to either or even straddling both paths - placing you at the cusp of piercing past that whole paradigm altogether.

 

 

 

Why limit yourself to "less" or "more?" Contemplate infinity.

 

For example, what is the difference between no frame of reference (Buddhist emptiness) and a frame of reference bounded by the boundless, non-existent boundary of infinity (all-encompassing Brahman)? If there is none, then does that mean that infinity transcends both of these concepts?

 

Well, hope to see you again soon, bro!

Edited April 22, 2012 by vortex

[Ish]

Yeah im off too, far too much time being wasted on the net in general.

Its time to make some progress.

 

best of luck with your path.

[Cameron]

Thanks guys!

 

Vortex,

 

I was practicing martial arts pretty seriously and got into Zen. Th Zen center I visited reccommended a book to me which I used as a guide. I basically did nothing but train martial arts and zazen for an entire summer when I was 19.

 

I don't like to conceptualize the experience, but the way I think about it now is it was my first contact with reality. Nothing special really. I presume others here have experienced the same or similar and it wasn't enlightenment, more like a small taste of enlightenment.

 

Now I just do Kunlun and not Zen. I had the honor of meeting with an authentic Zen Master while in Korea but it was pretty clear to me that Zen isn't my path anymore.

 

If I add anything else in now it will probably be internal martial arts or maybe yoga or something.

 

Anyway, th-th-th-th-that's all folks! Don't ask anymore questions here because I won't answer!

[Protector]

 

Anyway, th-th-th-th-that's all folks! Don't ask anymore questions here because I won't answer!

 

Haven't heard that one before

[Walker]

Haven't heard that one before

 

Haha, you know! I know rappers with longer retirements. Howzabout a new Cam'ron avatar for Cameron, with the perfect album title to match...

 

 

 

Dipset!

[RiverSnake]

Summary of 100 years of Taoist Discussion: http://everydayhealthtcm.blogspot.com/2009/11/at-age-of-100-xing-yi-master-wang-ji-wu.html

 

Its a great article i go back and read it regularly for inspiration.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Cameron]

I would say the Kunlun system itself was really the fruit of my online Tao search in America.

 

Now in Asia, I'll try to be receptive to what the Universe has to teach me. In China I have been given some special gifts. But I want to keep them for myself and my own journey and not blab all over the internet like I did the past few years.

 

It's a great adventure living here in the origin of Taoism. Anyway, I hope my contributions here have been atleast somewhat helpful. I don't view myself as high level at all but aspire to atleast work to reach whatever my potentials are in this life.

 

Ok, enough, best to all of you.

[三江源]

Yet another last post by Cam.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Aht9hcDFyVw

[chi 2012]

I think its good that a bunch of unenlightened people talk about this stuff. It helps get the word out. It serves a purpose. Everything happens for a reason.

[Mal]

I would like to leave something of potential value here so am going to take some time to write this. I am finished writing on Tao Bums after this. I won't answer PM's either so please don't write them.

 

 

Anyway, th-th-th-th-that's all folks! Don't ask anymore questions here because I won't answer!

 

In Australia we have a stick that looks like this

 

if you track it's path over time, it can look like this

 

Ok, enough, best to all of you.

 

best to you too

 

[Gerard]

Summary of 100 years of Taoist Discussion: http://everydayhealthtcm.blogspot.com/2009/11/at-age-of-100-xing-yi-

 

Like the tortoise and the old tree. Firm and equanime beings, well-rooted and balanced. They live very long lives as a result and nourish Gaia with their positive energy at the same time.

[lienshan]

It's a great adventure living here in the origin of Taoism.

You're according to your profile living in Beijing

Taoism originated in the modern Hubei province 650 miles/1000 kilometers to the south of Beijing

 

It's the same if I living here in Copenhagen said:

that it's a great adventure living here in the origin of the french revolution

[Mandrake]

I remember way back all the jokes flying between you, Plato and the old folks, cracking me up. Your presence has been a contribution. Wish you all well Cameron, and wish you will encounter many good fellow people on your path.

 

 

Mandrake

[Cameron]

I asked Kan San very directly about his opinion on Tao Bums and all the bickering about different paths.

 

He said(rough translation as his English isn't so good) "each path is special and leads to the same peak."

 

The point isn't what path is better. It's what path is best for you.

 

namaste(last post! lol)