Riding the Ox

[Mark Foote]

Crushing ones own will to be at the whim of circumstance doesnt stike me as "being like water" flexible to circumstance but consistant to ones own virtue. Maybe is it just my dualism peeking out again, but I dont currently get why anyone, abstaining from judgement, abstaining from preference ,judges it desirable, chooses it as goal ,to squash their illusion of identity to become a non factor in the flow of events. You live once, so be it ! that it is illusion,, can't that disillusionment wait until you unravel? Live first , die later.

 

I think it's more practical than that. When we really live from where we are, and consciousness takes place freely in response to our senses and our mind, there's an immaterial happiness- a happiness that is not related to physical or mental pleasure or pain. How can there be a happiness that is not related to physical or mental pleasure or pain?- I can't say, but that doesn't mean it isn't so!

 

Now I would contend that if we do not live from where we are, we don't really live, our ability to feel is not truly alive with the fluidity of our nature. In some sense when we are truly alive, we are as though already dead, because the fluidity of our nature acts while we wake or sleep to it. Already dead, fully alive.

 

It's not possible to be anywhere other than exactly where we are. Who's there, that's my name.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Mark Foote

[Stosh]

There's no words to explain the dichotomy. It's completely experiential, why one would choose to let go of the reins and allow 'what will be will be'. How foolhardy.

And yet this is the one thing that all Masters have in common.

Ill try to keep in mind yours and Marks sentiments, I dont claim mastery.But I have heard many folks saying things along the lines that they dont have that mastery either ,they doubt enlightenment lives up to the advertizing.. do you and Mark claim Mastery of this phenomena either?

I see folk on other threads acting just as dualistic or self motivated as the Christian dudes working behind me, so while I respect your convictions as such,, Im just not seeing anything that makes a difference evident.

Its like watching the Inquisition happen while reading a bible.

Ill keep reading though.

[Mark Foote]

Ill try to keep in mind yours and Marks sentiments, I dont claim mastery.But I have heard many folks saying things along the lines that they dont have that mastery either ,they doubt enlightenment lives up to the advertizing.. do you and Mark claim Mastery of this phenomena either?

I see folk on other threads acting just as dualistic or self motivated as the Christian dudes working behind me, so while I respect your convictions as such,, Im just not seeing anything that makes a difference evident.

Its like watching the Inquisition happen while reading a bible.

Ill keep reading though.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't live life to the fullest; the question is how you do that. In particular, how do you practice living life to the fullest? What does that mean to you?

[Marblehead]

I'm not saying you shouldn't live life to the fullest; the question is how you do that. In particular, how do you practice living life to the fullest? What does that mean to you?

Funny. I have said a number of times that we should live our life to our full potential but I have never defined how that can be done. I suppose that it is because we each are different manifestations of the One and therefore we each have a different set of potentials, some internal, some external.

 

I doubt this concept could be put into words except in generalized terms.

[Mark Foote]

Funny. I have said a number of times that we should live our life to our full potential but I have never defined how that can be done. I suppose that it is because we each are different manifestations of the One and therefore we each have a different set of potentials, some internal, some external.

 

I doubt this concept could be put into words except in generalized terms.

I don't know about you, Marblehead, but I like working the words. I seem to need them to get the skiff in the water, so to speak, they're like florescence in the tide.

 

Our potential may be different, yet I think without a practice of some sort we are adrift. Not that a practice can be held to without change. And navigating over the horizon at night takes some getting used to!

[Marblehead]

Our potential may be different, yet I think without a practice of some sort we are adrift. Not that a practice can be held to without change. And navigating over the horizon at night takes some getting used to!

 

Well, okay, you did pretty good with your words there.

 

And I would agree with you depending on how you defined "practice".

 

Being an old Army man I woud use SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). That is, we have our basic guide books but we maintain the flexibility to change course if we don't like the waters we are headed toward.

 

Funny again. The thought/concept "event horizon" just entered my brain. We should never allow ourself to reach the event horizon unless we are absolutely sure that this is where we want to go (into the black hole or over the waterfall).

[Mark Foote]

Well, okay, you did pretty good with your words there.

 

And I would agree with you depending on how you defined "practice".

 

Being an old Army man I woud use SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). That is, we have our basic guide books but we maintain the flexibility to change course if we don't like the waters we are headed toward.

 

Funny again. The thought/concept "event horizon" just entered my brain. We should never allow ourself to reach the event horizon unless we are absolutely sure that this is where we want to go (into the black hole or over the waterfall).

 

 

and yet we all do, go down in the black hole with head-lamps and ropes, go right over the waterfall in a barrel for laughs or maybe just down the white-water in a kayak. Carnival rides, scary movies. I hear you, army event horizons might not be the kind of place I particularly want to reach, yet even kids want to whirl until they fall down.

 

A little off-topic, there. The navigating over the horizon: I attended a right-brain/left-brain class in the 70's where the teacher mentioned that when they studied South Pacific islanders, some could navigate over the horizon between islands without a compass or stars, but when you asked them for an explanation what you got was garbage. The teacher's explanation was that the right-side spatial/intuitive function worked well but the left-side language function was not always in sync.

 

In some ways, I have always assumed that practice in daily life would be like the Pacific Islanders navigating over the horizon, and that what I had to do was get the left-side and right-side sync'd so that I could describe that practice to anyone else with an interest. Long time now, I've been at it, and all I've got to show is these beans (and a giant who is coming down the beanstalk pretty quick now)...

Edited April 30, 2012 by Mark Foote

[Marblehead]

and yet we all do, ...

 

Yeah, but it should be done with knowing why we are doing such.

 

I used to do that; go places I had no idea what lay ahead nor what I would find when I got 'there'.

 

I'm older now. The thrill of youth is gone. I'll sit at my pond and watch the fish, thanks.

 

Left brain/right brain. Sometimes in my youth I did thing with no brain.

 

I like to think that my brain is more 'logic' oriented but I can clearly state that it wasn't always that way.

[3bob]

There's no words to explain the dichotomy. It's completely experiential, why one would choose to let go of the reins and allow 'what will be will be'. How foolhardy.

And yet this is the one thing that all Masters have in common.

 

Hello Manitou and others involved in this string,

 

I believe there are some words which point the "way" based on

understanding of same, for instance from chapter 42 of the TTC:

 

"Tao gave birth to One,

One gave birth to Two,

Two gave birth to Three,

Three gave birth to all myriad things..."

 

To me this describes part of the flow of Tao resulting in all myriad things, yet if one does not at some point begin to regroup via forms of "will" or unification one remains identified with or stuck at the greatly permutated end of the flow known as "myriad things", a condition which can often feel like being a separate leaf tossed in the wind, which by the way is still lawful or "going with the flow" of Tao yet again such is at the widely diffused part of that flow; but there is another part of the flow which actually goes in reverse or against the permutated part which to me is described in the TTC as the "return" thus the myriad things return to the Three, the Three returns to the Two, the Two returns to the One, and the One returns to Tao, which brings completion and fulfillment to that whole process, a process I'd add that is not defined as illusion by the level of Truth also alluded to in Chapter 25 of the TTC:

 

25.

"THERE was Something undefined and yet complete in itself,

Born before Heaven-and-Earth.

 

Silent and boundless,

Standing alone without change,

Yet pervading all without fail,

It may be regarded as the Mother of the world.

I do not know its name;

I style it "Tao";

And, in the absence of a better word, call it "The Great."

 

To be great is to go on,

To go on is to be far,

To be far is to return..."

 

Om

Edited April 30, 2012 by 3bob

[Stosh]

I'm not saying you shouldn't live life to the fullest; the question is how you do that. In particular, how do you practice living life to the fullest? What does that mean to you?

I dont think the Tao has any plan for us, its a great "gift" to define for ourselves the meaning with which we are going to live.,, If Gautama Buddha was correct that all life is suffering -(of a sort.. I prefer other terms) Then 'inner-peace' would be at the other end of that spectrum.

So I see it as a trade off ,either, to be highly emotionally invested in the illusory-material world, or to pursue greater satisfaction-peace at the expense of it.

Where one draws the line is personal choice.

Whether one can achieve complete peace and still live? I dont know.

I do however conclude that some wise pursuit of peace is terriffic, and that the pursuit of mundane joys is also terriffic.

I see it as a middle path, a great improvement.

[Marblehead]

I dont think the Tao has any plan for us, ...

I had to give that post a point. I think you still have much to say.

[Stosh]

I had to give that post a point. I think you still have much to say.

Thanks, Thats nice of you to say, I will however need to check in on the Buddhists for a bit and get a better grasp of their vantage point ( and I have a cold ) maybe its time to sit back and recoup- review.

[manitou]

 

Funny again. The thought/concept "event horizon" just entered my brain. We should never allow ourself to reach the event horizon unless we are absolutely sure that this is where we want to go (into the black hole or over the waterfall).

 

 

Damn, I like this, old man. Event horizon.

 

To me, this goes exactly to what some on this thread are talking about. To plan in advance, to think we know what the best thing is for us 'down the road'...this limits our Event Horizon. This is it exactly. what a wonderful phrase. And the fact that it has a military (or theoretically rigid) genesis is ironic, but not in the sense of Smart Military. The Art of War military.

 

The Art of War military mind is always going to see things 'as they are' and not 'as he thinks they should be'. TAOW mind will refrain from making assumptions which would limit the Event Horizon. He lets the War come to him, as the Sage lets life come to him. His mind is 'nebulous and unknowing' in a sense, although acutely sharp in the other.

 

This seems to be from left field, but hopefully it will come together. I was thinking the other day about the beginning of the bible, the part where Man is given the opportunity to determine good from evil in the garden of eden - a story everyone knows, for sure. And no doubt there is a counterpart in other religious structures. But attaining 'knowledge of good and evil' is nothing more than making Judgments. In reality, there is no good and evil, it all just Is. It's as though the cosmic stream separates from the One to the Two at that point; the knowledge of Good and Evil. But this is very Tao!

 

It is, after all, all One. And I think this goes directly to Marbles' Event Horizon concept; it is Judgment and judgment alone that was the first separation from the One. So the path of the Sage? Riding the Ox? It would be to get to Pre-judgment.

 

Wow. I love this thread. I feel like a young colt stretching her metaphysical legs after a long winter.

[Marblehead]

The Art of War ...

It just so happens that this very evening I watched a movie about Bin Sun Tzu. (Sad ending though; I don't like sad endings.)

[Mark Foote]

 

It is, after all, all One. And I think this goes directly to Marbles' Event Horizon concept; it is Judgment and judgment alone that was the first separation from the One. So the path of the Sage? Riding the Ox? It would be to get to Pre-judgment.

 

 

The free movement of awareness that we have falling asleep, we also have waking up. If we grasp after judgement, we are no longer waking up or falling asleep, a station of consciousness comes to exist.

 

Here's a teaching from Gautama (who was later called the Buddha):

 

"That which we will..., and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:--this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existance takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill.

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness... whence birth... takes place.

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill."

 

(SN II 65, Pali Text Society vol. 2 pg 45)

 

That makes it sound like it's hard to be without will, intention, or preoccupation, but we do it all the time. We just have to wake up or fall asleep where we are, and hey presto!- the world takes care of itself. That's what it feels like to me, although I confess that I am not entirely at home with myself yet, still riding sometimes. Like Foyan said, "only two illnesses- looking for the ox while riding the ox, and mounted on the ox unable to get off. Better never to mount at all!"

[manitou]

The free movement of awareness that we have falling asleep, we also have waking up. If we grasp after judgement, we are no longer waking up or falling asleep, a station of consciousness comes to exist.

 

Here's a teaching from Gautama (who was later called the Buddha):

 

"That which we will..., and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:--this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existance takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill.

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness... whence birth... takes place.

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill."

 

(SN II 65, Pali Text Society vol. 2 pg 45)

 

That makes it sound like it's hard to be without will, intention, or preoccupation, but we do it all the time. We just have to wake up or fall asleep where we are, and hey presto!- the world takes care of itself. That's what it feels like to me, although I confess that I am not entirely at home with myself yet, still riding sometimes. Like Foyan said, "only two illnesses- looking for the ox while riding the ox, and mounted on the ox unable to get off. Better never to mount at all!"

 

Incredible post, Mark, IMO.

 

The reference you make to falling asleep was one that I wasn't getting, because I thought you were always referencing the physical act of falling asleep. I see now that you weren't. My counterpart to falling asleep is to say to myself 'Do Nothing', and this stops time for my brain, allowing it to come back to True Reality, the reality where I know exactly Who I Am and the reality that this is all a dream and I am merely the dreamer. I see it as a huge IMAX theater; all of it is imagined, and I'm really the projectionist. Nothing can harm me, it's a dream after all. As it says in the TTC, 'that which is feared is truly to be feared, but distant yet is the dawn of awakening....' By falling asleep, as you put it, this enables us to face life without any fears, if indeed we can revert to the mindset of a dream.

 

I seem to be going through the grief period of leaving Joe back in Ohio. Every fear I have of truly being Alone in life is kicking in. There are fears there I didn't know existed, at a level so very deep. We had occasion to speak on the phone yesterday for a few moments; in trying to get me back to Ohio, he reverted to a child-like voice (which always worked on me) because the inner child in him and the inner child in me are the very personas that are joined at the hip. Our 8 year old inner selves are both stunted by life in some way; it is these two fearful children that found each other 27 years ago and have been huddled together ever since. After he used that tactic I found myself on the floor, again crying so deep that there was no breath, no sound. It physically felt like a scab was slowly being ripped from my heart or something; lots of bleeding underneath. To willingly turn my back on my own 8 year old and deny her the protection she seeks takes an act of Mothering Myself that is quite difficult because I have indulged her fears for so many years. Not even big fears at this point; just the big one. Being Truly Alone. I'm 65 now - the thought of dying alone perhaps, of living out my sunset years alone. Especially at a time when my left brain organizational skills have come and gone; they are truly gone. I couldn't investigate myself out of a paper bag now. (Actually, I feel like I just did).

 

This final stripping of myself has been so very long in coming. After weeks of this aloneness, it gets a little better each day. But yesterday when I was in that crying state, I was in that state where the tears FEEL like they're old tears and come from a very deep place. And the odd thing is that when the deep tears are gone, the perch is slightly different than the one I was sitting on before. Once the tears are gone, the transcension in this very area can begin.

 

Yesterday's tears reminded me of the Tao Te Ching, where it says something about nature's utterances being violent in nature, but short in duration. This is EXACTLY what happened yesterday within my soul. The tears came out violently; my recent crying spells have been short and violent. And then it's gone. Just like nature. This process reminds me of ripping off old bandaids.

 

I'm so glad you're here, whomever is reading this. I have no one else.

 

Barb

 

P.S. - I've been jerking around with my avatar for a few weeks. The little girl staring at the candle was apparently trying to make a cosmic decision, unbeknownst to me at the time. Well, she made it. When I chose this butterly avatar, I chose it because it felt right, like a transformation of change was taking place. But the avatar I realize is 'mine' is one I can't find. I am looking for a nice Root avatar and I can't find one. The root is me - the cosmic detective, not happy until the ultimate Cause is found.

 

If anyone runs across a root avatar on an avatar gettin' site, I'd sure appreciate the heads up on which site that is. Truly, I'm getting older and more confused as time goes on, and searching for an avatar, which used to be an easy thing for me, is no longer that easy.

Edited May 2, 2012 by manitou

[manitou]

It just so happens that this very evening I watched a movie about Bin Sun Tzu. (Sad ending though; I don't like sad endings.)

 

 

Judgment

[Marblehead]

Judgment

But of course. We all judge.

[Clarity]

[3bob]

that we have falling asleep, we also have waking up. If we grasp after judgement, we are no longer waking up or falling asleep, a station of consciousness comes to exist.

 

Here's a teaching from Gautama (who was later called the Buddha):

 

"That which we will..., and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:--this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existance takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill.

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness... whence birth... takes place.

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill."

 

(SN II 65, Pali Text Society vol. 2 pg 45)

 

That makes it sound like it's hard to be without will, intention, or preoccupation, but we do it all the time. We just have to wake up or fall asleep where we are, and hey presto!- the world takes care of itself. That's what it feels like to me, although I confess that I am not entirely at home with myself yet, still riding sometimes. Like Foyan said, "only two illnesses- looking for the ox while riding the ox, and mounted on the ox unable to get off. Better never to mount at all!"

 

"The free movement of awareness" is free when that remains free from attachment, whether such is called awareness or consciousness... thus the rest of such text can be drastically mis-applied or mis-understood since the ceasing that is really meant is the ceasing of attachment - being that Truth is beyond any form of "ceasing" in its own nature. Another tangent: "to be or not to be" is a human idea and not a Tao idea or a possibility...

Edited May 2, 2012 by 3bob

[Stosh]

If anyone runs across a root avatar on an avatar gettin' site, I'd sure appreciate the heads up on which site that is. Truly, I'm getting older and more confused as time goes on, and searching for an avatar, which used to be an easy thing for me, is no longer that easy.

 

Thats a very emotionally moving post ,

in integrity, far beyond any I have ever seen anywhere!

and I can have no comment on most of it,

But since your avatar has meaning to you and for you ,

and may even be a tool you use for conceptualizing ,

You will need to find it for yourself.

 

Same as meaning in a life, we each carry the blessing and burden of finding it.

Accepting someone elses choice is often a sell out,( unless we get to the same place on our own)

 

Since you brought up the subject of inner-child I just thought I would add that the beauty of your post , the wisdom and emotion of it, are all "Inner child"

That also includes the avatar issue.

I just figured you should recognize it in yourself, the inner child is far more wise capable and wonderful than it is sometimes concieved. Give your own the authority to choose the new avatar.

(P.S.) What clearer mark of a Sage could there be?

Edited May 2, 2012 by Stosh

[manitou]

But of course. We all judge.

 

Yes, We all judge. Every word we speak is a judgment of sorts; selecting one word over the other for purposes of communication. The kind of judgment I'm talking about is the kind that prevents clarity; the judgments that harm us personally.

 

As in the TTC, 'between aah! and Ugh!, how much difference is there really? If you ask the soccer mom at the high school what she considers 'bad' or 'evil', she will give you one set of answers based on her soccer mom and life experience. 'Bad' to her will be someone messing with her kids, like a dope dealer.

 

If you walk down to the corner and ask the dope dealer what he considers bad or evil, he'll tell you that it's the lowlife that ripped him off for his money when he was trying to buy a shipment of heroin. How many things in our life have come at us, with us giving it a label of 'bad'? And then that very thing turns out to be the very best thing that happened to you. In my own personal life, it was alcoholism. At the time I admitted I was an alkie, I thought that was Bad. Real Bad. But now, 31 years later, I see my adventure with alcoholism and subsequent recovery as the very best thing that could have happened to me; that was the causative factor for the inner journey, the self-realization process that started the day I walked into those rooms, unbeknownst to me. I thought I was just there to get sober. But that was just the very beginning, and within a couple years it was apparent to me that the inner journey I was on, out of necessity, was something much, much more than staying away from alcohol, which turned out to be no problem at all. But it became all about the inward journey itself, not the self-denial of alcohol. That was just the catalyst.

 

But this pertains directly to the Event Horizon that you were talking about. Okay, say a general decides in advance how the battle 'should' be fought, and because of his judgment about this, he takes a Stance. He positions his soldiers just so, and because of his Stance (judgment) he is prepared for that particular eventuality.

 

But suppose the opposing army comes in from atop the mountains, something he hadn't counted on; his Stance makes it impossible for him to see the invaders; he can only see 180 degrees around him, because of his pre-determined Stance. Whereas if he had taken no Stance at all, he would have a 360 degree Event Horizon; he would have cut off none of his options because of his pre-judgment and Stance. Perhaps this is why the general of the Art of War will let the fight come to him; he will be pre-positioned, of course; but with no pre-conceptions about what the enemy will do. He will wait and observe, but be ready to move when he sees that the timing is perfect.

 

The type of judgment we're talking about here is not the everyday variety of making the small judgments we need to make daily to get along. I'm talking about the ones that mess with our clarity. The judgments that are based on our contorted feelings, our contorted life experiences. The judgments that don't need to be there; they're superfluous to clarity; in fact, an impediment to clarity. These are the judgments put on us by others from the time of childhood, and conversely we wear them. And they roll downhill like a snowball over the years and get bigger and bigger, picking up more snow as they go. These impediments are often attached to odd little memories within us; and I've discovered that the odd little memories that seemingly contain no emotion are the very ones that have remained for a reason, always beckoning us to go back and revisit. There is indeed emotion lying under there; if there weren't, the memory wouldn't have been kept for so many years.

 

As Jim Morrison would say, Break on through to the other side....

 

Last note - Marbles, you mentioned manifesting from the One previously on this thread. Just the idea of Manifesting from the One is such a reversal of direction! If your background was anything like mine, I was brought up to believe that there was a god 'up there', who would one day come down with his sleigh and reindeer. And his list. The expected momentum was always something that would happen as an origination 'from the sky' or somewhere 'out there'.

 

But when we realize that we manifest from the One, the direction of manifestation is exactly opposite. Sometimes I imagine that the Energy Source is within the earth; the fiery ball at the center of the earth, the piece of the sun which is still manifesting outward. I can picture the earth energy coming up through our feet and out through our eyes and hands. Sometimes, when circumstances are very unusual, I have felt the energy flow actually going 'out of my eyes', an odd sensation indeed. But it is That Entity within, the one that knows exactly what it needs to develop the vessel that is Marbles or Manitou, that manifests and grabs everything that we need to get along, to develop along the lines that the Entity (the Void) requires to express fully from within both of us. When we have a pre-set notion about things being good or bad, therefore desirable or undesirable, this cuts off our sphere of manifestion and leaves us only with what we can see in front of us.

 

As to the spirit of the One - it occurred to me one day that if anything (man, woman, child, bear, dog, insect) has little black spots in it's eyes, that's the Void we're looking at. That's 'God'. The little black spots in all of our eyes; if you think about it, that's the one thing we all have on our bodies that is pretty close to identical. Makes it real easy to stay in Awareness, to remember that.

 

sorry, I hadn't intended to make this such a long post! Marbles, when I replied 'Judgment' to your post about the movie, I said that because you said it was 'sad'. The funny thing is, I was capable of seeing the tiny moat of judgment in your eye, and yet I was totally unable to see the big log of judgment within my own eyes. I have yet to respond to an email from my aunt in Ohio because I just don't want to, as I have judged her to be uber-Christian and therefore (apparently somewhere in my psyche) not worthy of conversation. Being too hard on myself? Maybe. But it woke me up. I have pre-judged the conversation, I just 'know' which way it's going to go. But perhaps I'm wrong. Duh. Perhaps we'll have the most wonderful conversation Jan and I have ever had. I shall reply to her today, hopefully with no judgment of any sort. I'll try my best.

 

What funny talking monkeys we are.

Edited May 3, 2012 by manitou

[manitou]

Thats a very emotionally moving post ,

in integrity, far beyond any I have ever seen anywhere!

and I can have no comment on most of it,

But since your avatar has meaning to you and for you ,

and may even be a tool you use for conceptualizing ,

You will need to find it for yourself.

 

Same as meaning in a life, we each carry the blessing and burden of finding it.

Accepting someone elses choice is often a sell out,( unless we get to the same place on our own)

 

Since you brought up the subject of inner-child I just thought I would add that the beauty of your post , the wisdom and emotion of it, are all "Inner child"

That also includes the avatar issue.

I just figured you should recognize it in yourself, the inner child is far more wise capable and wonderful than it is sometimes concieved. Give your own the authority to choose the new avatar.

(P.S.) What clearer mark of a Sage could there be?

 

 

Stosh, you are so right. I must live through the frustration of finding my own Root, my own avatar. Thank you for the correction. I'll evolve into it soon, hopefully.

[manitou]

Edited May 3, 2012 by manitou

[Marblehead]

What funny talking monkeys we are.

Hehehe. True, we do talk funny sometimes.

 

The early part of your post reminded me of the "fortunate/unfortunate" story. If you have not heard or seen it yet let me know and I will find and post it.

 

Yeah, I don't have a problem with judging. But pre-judging is a totally different subject. And yes, doing so will always limit our potential.

 

Anyhow, nice post.