Compassion, Peace, and Vicious Dogs

[Ya Mu]

Russian Roulette is Russian Roulette,...vicious breed advocates focus on the empty chambers,...honorable Taoists understand that these animals are "inherently dangerous" to the well being of Others. It happens millions of times a year,...with predominately vicious breeds,...devastating peoples lives.

 

I've enjoyed the discussions though,...it shows who the real Taoist and Buddhists are.

 

No honorable Taoist or Buddhist would own a wild and/or vicious animal. It is indisputable,...although those who don't have the least consideration of others will believe they can.

 

It is totally insane to to even imagine that a harmoneous person "wishing to unite with the heart and mind of the Mysterious Mother" would support such violent, fear-driven, territorial, aggressive vibrations, as all vicious breeds are bred for.

 

V

What is your proposed solution? How exactly do we rid the world of every single dog that just may one day bite someone? And shouldn't any such solution be a compassionate one?

[Aetherous]

It is totally insane to to even imagine that a harmoneous person "wishing to unite with the heart and mind of the Mysterious Mother" would support such violent, fear-driven, territorial, aggressive vibrations, as all vicious breeds are bred for.

 

Here is some wisdom on the Tao. Please listen:

 

Those who wish to embody the Tao should embrace all things. To embrace all things means first that one holds no anger or resistance toward any idea or thing, living or dead, formed or formless. Acceptance is the very essence of the Tao. To embrace all things means also that one rids oneself of any concept of separation; male and female, self and other, life and death. Division is contrary to the nature of the Tao. Foregoing antagonism and separation, one enters in the harmonious oneness of all things.

 

Every departure from the Tao contaminates one's spirit. Anger is a departure, resistance a departure, self- absorption a departure. Over many lifetimes the burden of contaminations can become great. There is only one way to cleanse oneself of these contaminations, and that is to practice virtue. What is meant by this? To practice virtue is to selflessly offer assistance to others, giving without limitation one's time, abilities, and possessions in service, whenever and wherever needed, without prejudice concerning the identity of those in need. If your willingness to give blessings is limited, so also is your ability to receive them. This is the subtle operation of the Tao.

 

-Hua Hu Ching, 3 & 4

[Marblehead]

There is a technique called "Behavior Modification".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification

 

Behavior modification can alter inbred and instinctual behavior. Therefore I find is unfair to state universally that there are "vicious" breeds of anything. Cause and effect rule!

[C T]

There is a technique called "Behavior Modification".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification

 

Behavior modification can alter inbred and instinctual behavior. Therefore I find is unfair to state universally that there are "vicious" breeds of anything. Cause and effect rule!

Definitely, MH.

 

Tigers too!! Give Peace a chance i say.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=717pJ4A2CTk&feature=related

[Jetsun]

Would a genuine Taoist set out to have any pets at all? Seems a bit unnatural to cage a wild animal and bend them against their nature. Many people have dogs because they find them easier and better company than humans so rather than humble their ego a bit and work at learning to love their fellow humans they distort the nature of animals and cut off their genitals to provide themselves loyal company which doesn't answer back and forgives you when you act like an idiot. Seems a bit of a contradiction to spend your life trying to remove your own conditioning to align yourself with your own nature while conditioning an animal to go against theirs.

[zanshin]

..

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Brian]

I was sitting on the ground doing Stillness-Movement and a client pulls up and and her "dog" gets out. It was a wolf and it immediately came up to me, licked me, and sat down beside me. She said "Damn, I have never seen him do that before. Sorry, I didn't mean for him to get out."

She had no compassion whatsoever letting that mean thing lick me.

 

LMAO

 

On Saturday, I was driving my mother-in-law home, a four-hour drive each way. Stopped at a rest area along I-40 on my way back (after having spent most of six hours practicing stillness-driving ) Walked out into the picnic area and stood between two big long-leaf pines. Did some standing S-M and then started Gift of the Tao with my eyes still closed. During the fourth movement, I felt a presence. Open my eyes and, sure enough, standing about six feet in front of me and watching me was a gray squirrel!

 

Looked kinda vicious and I've learned about rabbits from a documentary I once watched ("...long, sharp, pointy teeth...") so I was naturally petrified.

 

Anyhow, I smiled at him and returned to my practice. When I stopped, he was in a dogwood tree, still watching me. I offered light to the two big pines and went back to my car.

 

I was surprised to see that over an hour had passed.

[zerostao]

my proposed solution:

i have this idea about a sanctuary out in the forest (or anywhere)

could be a taoist retreat (or any type) coz truly enlightened folks can come from any walk of life.

(maybe even a dog's life?)

gaurding temple dogs of course would be there (pit bulls)

the true test of someones inner peace, harmony, compassion

would be if they could walk past the temple dogs without the temple dogs

growling, or showing there teeth, or attacking.

obviously anyone who does not have fear (what is there to fear?) becoz as some boddhisattva

has said many many times on this forum is "only right wing conservative tea baggers who own viscious dogs have fear."

and anyone with a higher spiritual level like that could just float on past these watchful, mindful temple dogs.

if the dogs bark that is ok, coz they are just signaling someone approaches.

if the dogs dont bark even, then the sanctuary will grant monk status.

if the dogs run up wagging their tails and licking the person appraoching , they can be the abbot?

if someone had to break out their "hapkido 5 second kill technique"to get past the dogs, they could be the martial instructor.

 

i got bit by a spider once, however, and i demand that all spiders be exterminated. and anyone caught with spiders on their property should be jailed.

[zanshin]

K

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Marblehead]

Would a genuine Taoist set out to have any pets at all? Seems a bit unnatural to cage a wild animal and bend them against their nature. Many people have dogs because they find them easier and better company than humans so rather than humble their ego a bit and work at learning to love their fellow humans they distort the nature of animals and cut off their genitals to provide themselves loyal company which doesn't answer back and forgives you when you act like an idiot. Seems a bit of a contradiction to spend your life trying to remove your own conditioning to align yourself with your own nature while conditioning an animal to go against theirs.

Well, you sure put a lot of people on the line with that post.

[Stosh]

Dogs aren't wild animals anymore.

Cats kept their wildness.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Stosh

[Aaron]

my proposed solution:

i have this idea about a sanctuary out in the forest (or anywhere)

could be a taoist retreat (or any type) coz truly enlightened folks can come from any walk of life.

(maybe even a dog's life?)

gaurding temple dogs of course would be there (pit bulls)

the true test of someones inner peace, harmony, compassion

would be if they could walk past the temple dogs without the temple dogs

growling, or showing there teeth, or attacking.

obviously anyone who does not have fear (what is there to fear?) becoz as some boddhisattva

has said many many times on this forum is "only right wing conservative tea baggers who own viscious dogs have fear."

and anyone with a higher spiritual level like that could just float on past these watchful, mindful temple dogs.

if the dogs bark that is ok, coz they are just signaling someone approaches.

if the dogs dont bark even, then the sanctuary will grant monk status.

if the dogs run up wagging their tails and licking the person appraoching , they can be the abbot?

if someone had to break out their "hapkido 5 second kill technique"to get past the dogs, they could be the martial instructor.

 

i got bit by a spider once, however, and i demand that all spiders be exterminated. and anyone caught with spiders on their property should be jailed.

 

You were bitten by a spider? Wow, sorry to hear that. Why don't you try that argument on the parent who's two year old toddler lost his eye and part of his face because a pit bull mauled him. Or maybe you should go tell the grandson of the old man who was mauled to death by a pit bull while he was watering their garden, I'm sure they'll enjoy the levity.

 

There is a big difference between having a Labrador and a pit bull. One is bred as a hunting dog, specifically for flushing and retrieving, the other is bred to KILL, plain and simple. The fact of the matter is that pit bulls don't seem picky about what they kill once their trigger occurs. There are over 650 cities that restrict the ownership of these types of dogs. It's not because of hysteria, but because of concrete evidence that these dogs were bred to be killers and are still killing. Laugh all you want. Make snarky little comments, but just keep in mind that about one to two times a day someone is being bitten by a pit bull, which is about the same as all other dogs combined.

 

This isn't a problem that's going away, unless we do something about it. I'm all for civil liberties, but if we're going to require that owners register their guns, why shouldn't we require them to register and license their vicious dogs? They should also be held responsible for their dog's actions. In Texas, if your dog bites someone, you can go to jail for up to 10 years. If it kills someone, you can be sentenced up to 20 years. I think this is not only fair, but reasonable. I mean if you shoot someone and wing them, you'll do that kind of time too. Sometimes you need to be reminded that what you own is dangerous and in many cases that only occurs if someone has to suffer consequences for their action (or inaction).

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Definitely, MH.

 

Tigers too!! Give Peace a chance i say.

 

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

Am I the only one that realized they drugged those tigers? In every picture they're limp and asleep. I'm sure if they didn't, then it would only be a matter of time before one attacked someone. The parents who let their kids near them need to learn some freaking common sense. So a monk tells you that the komodo dragon is peaceful and domesticated, are you going to let your child in the cage to pet it? Get real. Freaking ridiculous and irresponsible.

[Vmarco]

What is your proposed solution? How exactly do we rid the world of every single dog that just may one day bite someone? And shouldn't any such solution be a compassionate one?

 

I have no desire to rid the world of every single dog,....and absolutely nowhere can such be reason-ably implied from anything I've posted.

 

My point is in inquiring to this Taoist forum,...and who has considered the relationship between vicious dog ownership and Taoist practice. What is the fundamental need to own a vicious breed,...and what is the fundamental consideration towards others that an authentic Taoist (or Buddhist) pivot upon.

 

Most here argue in favor of their internal neurosis, and few bring up the External Considering that Lao Tzu (and Buddha) pointed to.

 

V

[zanshin]

...

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Aetherous]

And still seriously- don't buy green iguanas.

 

Okay, now I'm interested. Why not?

[zanshin]

On 5/9/2012 at 8:34 PM, Scotty said:

Okay, now I'm interested. Why not

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zerostao]

ok,

 

The parents who let their kids near them need to learn some freaking common sense. So a monk tells you that the komodo dragon is peaceful and domesticated, are you going to let your child in the cage to pet it? Get real. Freaking ridiculous and irresponsible.

 

but

 

Why don't you try that argument on the parent who's two year old toddler lost his eye and part of his face because a pit bull mauled him.

 

where were the parents then? were they being responsible?

here is your opinion

 

There is a big difference between having a Labrador and a pit bull

 

and if we go down the road of exterminating pit bulls, then another group will say there needs to be no more dobermans, etc etc leading to calls for no more labs.

 

here i am a little surprised aaron becoz you usually follow logic,

 

The fact of the matter is that pit bulls don't seem picky about what they kill once their trigger occurs.

 

really? it is a matter of fact?

 

"dont seem"and "matter of fact" in the same sentence, well at least it isnt snarky.

 

but my snarkiness aside, i agree that owners should be held responsible. i do not agree to banning creatures. and even if pit bulls are banned, breeders will come up with another breed that suits their needs.

 

i cant say you are going off topic here, since it is your thread , but

 

but if we're going to require that owners register their guns

 

lets not do this either. but i digress.

 

again i am surprised at you aaron, i really thought you had a great thing going in the west descending into fascism thread. do not be compliant with those who would erode liberty.

responsibility responsibility

[Aaron]

ok,

 

The parents who let their kids near them need to learn some freaking common sense. So a monk tells you that the komodo dragon is peaceful and domesticated, are you going to let your child in the cage to pet it? Get real. Freaking ridiculous and irresponsible.

 

but

 

Why don't you try that argument on the parent who's two year old toddler lost his eye and part of his face because a pit bull mauled him.

 

where were the parents then? were they being responsible?

here is your opinion

 

There is a big difference between having a Labrador and a pit bull

 

and if we go down the road of exterminating pit bulls, then another group will say there needs to be no more dobermans, etc etc leading to calls for no more labs.

 

here i am a little surprised aaron becoz you usually follow logic,

 

The fact of the matter is that pit bulls don't seem picky about what they kill once their trigger occurs.

 

really? it is a matter of fact?

 

"dont seem"and "matter of fact" in the same sentence, well at least it isnt snarky.

 

but my snarkiness aside, i agree that owners should be held responsible. i do not agree to banning creatures. and even if pit bulls are banned, breeders will come up with another breed that suits their needs.

 

i cant say you are going off topic here, since it is your thread , but

 

but if we're going to require that owners register their guns

 

lets not do this either. but i digress.

 

again i am surprised at you aaron, i really thought you had a great thing going in the west descending into fascism thread. do not be compliant with those who would erode liberty.

responsibility responsibility

 

Our liberty is already eroded. In a perfect world each town would decide how to govern themselves, but sadly we aren't living in a world where that is going to happen, so for right now I'm siding with severe censure and punishment, as in if your dog happens to bite someone or kill them, you need to be held responsible, and not just a slap on the wrist, but jail time for a long time. If you decide to let your kid sit next to a tiger and the tiger kills him or her, you should spend a long, long, long, time in jail for your stupidity.

 

Aaron

[zerostao]

Our liberty is already eroded. In a perfect world each town would decide how to govern themselves, but sadly we aren't living in a world where that is going to happen, so for right now I'm siding with severe censure and punishment, as in if your dog happens to bite someone or kill them, you need to be held responsible, and not just a slap on the wrist, but jail time for a long time. If you decide to let your kid sit next to a tiger and the tiger kills him or her, you should spend a long, long, long, time in jail for your stupidity.

 

Aaron

 

 

 

maybe you should become a judge?

wear a black gown or whatever they wear and smash a hammer onto your desk.

have everyone rise when you enter the room.

not sure if stupidity is a crime? i know it seems hard to fix stupid.

[Aetherous]

"The simplest rule to live one's life by is to do no harm to yourself or others."

 

It would be doing great harm to send someone to jail for a long time if their dog killed someone. What if the dog never acted out in any way previously, and wasn't a vicious breed (this can happen)...also what if the dog was in its own yard, and the person who got bit was a trespasser?

 

There's a big difference between someone who is consciously trying to kill others with their dog (rare), and someone who has no idea that their dog is dangerous (VERY common).

 

Both should get 20 years in prison? I have to disagree.

 

Regardless of the differences between those examples...if your personal rule for living is to 'do no harm', then do you really think that locking someone up for 20 years isn't harming them?

 

Have you ever been imprisoned or experienced something similar?

 

Are you able to walk outside right now and feel the breeze...are you able to wear pretty much whatever clothes you want...are you able to go to a grocery store and choose what you eat...are you able to travel (if you save up your money)...to listen to music that you like...to connect through the internet?

 

That is a lot of freedom which is taken for granted. Imagine not being allowed to leave a room. Not being able to breathe fresh air. Being forced to wear a uniform. Being given crappy food with no options which barely keeps you alive. Being stuck in one place for years at a time, not being able to see this world and live this life. Having no music to listen to. Having no real connection with anyone.

 

That is a lot of harm to wish upon someone else.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Scotty

[Aaron]

It would be doing great harm to send someone to jail for a long time if their dog killed someone. What if the dog never acted out in any way previously, and wasn't a vicious breed (this can happen)...also what if the dog was in its own yard, and the person who got bit was a trespasser?

 

There's a big difference between someone who is consciously trying to kill others with their dog (rare), and someone who has no idea that their dog is dangerous (VERY common).

 

Both should get 20 years in prison? I have to disagree.

 

Regardless of the differences between those examples...if your personal rule for living is to 'do no harm', then do you really think that locking someone up for 20 years isn't harming them?

 

Have you ever been imprisoned or experienced something similar?

 

Are you able to walk outside right now and feel the breeze...are you able to wear pretty much whatever clothes you want...are you able to go to a grocery store and choose what you eat...are you able to travel (if you save up your money)...to listen to music that you like...to connect through the internet?

 

That is a lot of freedom which is taken for granted. Imagine not being allowed to leave a room. Not being able to breathe fresh air. Being forced to wear a uniform. Being given crappy food with no options which barely keeps you alive. Being stuck in one place for years at a time, not being able to see this world and live this life. Having no music to listen to. Having no real connection with anyone.

 

That is a lot of harm to wish upon someone else.

 

 

Well you could just not own a vicious dog, then you wouldn't have to worry about it harming anyone and being sent to jail.

 

Texas has it right- Your dog bites someone, 10 years. It kills someone, minimum of 20 years. The compassionate thing to do is deter people from allowing their dogs to harm others, either consciously or unconsciously.

 

Aaron

Edited May 10, 2012 by Twinner

[Aaron]

maybe you should become a judge?

wear a black gown or whatever they wear and smash a hammer onto your desk.

have everyone rise when you enter the room.

not sure if stupidity is a crime? i know it seems hard to fix stupid.

 

Well thanks for the suggestion, but I try not to judge others.

 

Aaron

Edited May 10, 2012 by Twinner

[Aetherous]

Actually, Texas has it totally wrong with those shocking prison sentences.

 

Anyway, the point was more about your personal ethics than about the dog issue at all. Advocating imprisoning people for a long time, for pretty much any reason, is not in line with the quote that you have said you live by.

 

Playing judge and punisher, besides being very harmful to others (especially with the careless attitude which you've displayed)...is also very harmful to yourself.

 

A person who says, "they should get 20 years" without any consideration, as you just did...should be the one that has to make that decision about the real person's life. Things change then! Hopefully...

 

The judge should also have to go through the full punishment themselves, in order to fully understand the decision they are making for that real person's life. Then things would really change, I'm sure...as long as it wasn't a psychopath.

 

Then there'd be an experience of real compassion...real knowledge of suffering and harm, as well as the wish to alleviate it for others.

 

Things aren't exactly as they should be, though...which is a very good thing for those of us lucky enough to still live in freedom.

[zanshin]

On 5/10/2012 at 6:20 PM, Twinner said:

Well you could just not own a vicious dog, then you wouldn't have to worry about it harming anyone and being sent to jail.

 

Texas has it right- Your dog bites someone, 10 years. It kills someone, minimum of 20 years. The compassionate thing to do is deter people from allowing their dogs to harm others, either consciously or unconsciously.

 

Aaron

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin