Amazing video - Guo Shifu

[dwai]

I don't like to be critical of people, but I am becoming overwhelmed by the amount of so called masters from China, in particular who use the 'fa jin' pushing of obvious students, who are very weak and accepting of that force. The pushing away or throwing really has evolved from Tai chi and really has very little martial value. In the great armory of different styles that I have been taught there in no pushing away. One must ask why? There is the deep penetrating fa jin on touch that destroys tissue and causes internal bleeding or at the very least severe pain. This has some martial value in respect that you are at least temporarily disabling your opponent. Try and push away someone who is very rooted and knows what they are doing you will end up on the floor with your head taken off, or your arm very badly broken. Try using fa jin against someone whose power is far greater than yours and you will receive your own push. There is no value martially or trying to impress someone who has deep knowledge by pushing a weak person over. It really just speaks volumes. I would be more impressed if the sifu concerned showed his patterns using proper applied technique with internal power. One would then know that when he applied his technique in a real situation, he has developed the right force for the job.

 

 

He seemed to demonstrate mainly wardoff and push. I think using split or press would cause internal damage...which is why most masters don't demonstrate with those.

 

I don't see how his demonstrating technique with his students (whom he was obviously trying to teach) amounts to speaking volumes about this teacher? If anything, it shows him in very good light, imho.

 

Ahem, for those of us who don't experience the fa jin from a video, looking at other characteristics, he seems to have the juice. How much is not the question (there are many masters who are capable of more maybe)...

 

Rubbish, I judged the national tai chi and internal arts championships some years back, have you?

Which one? Which year?

[Friend]

 

There is the deep penetrating fa jin on touch that destroys tissue and causes internal bleeding or at the very least severe pain. This has some martial value in respect that you are at least temporarily disabling your opponent.

 

 

You might remember the video was about teaching a concept and not hurting the student.

A teacher who wants impress the audience to make his student bleed and break bones

and cause him shock and countless sleepness nights with his teacher haunting him

has failed to teach the student.

[flowing hands]

You might remember the video was about teaching a concept and not hurting the student.

A teacher who wants impress the audience to make his student bleed and break bones

and cause him shock and countless sleepness nights with his teacher haunting him

has failed to teach the student.

You mistake what I am saying. I am not saying that one should demonstrate this on anyone! What I'm saying is that fa jin seems to be demonstrated by mostly tai chi and chi gong practitioners as being the ultimate test of their abilities by throwing some poorly positioned and floppy person against a wall or across the hall and this in some way demonstrates their great ability. I do not come from a solely tai chi back ground so I am completely out of what appears to be a way of thinking and seeing, which puts a great emphasis on this practice. You tube is littered with tai chi masters throwing people across the room. Its almost the thing to do if you're a tai chi teacher.

 

Lets put it in a different light. Karate is northern Chinese martial arts of black crane. Karate used to mean the hand of Han or China hand. In its recent history it is now called 'empty hand'.

As far I know from some of my friends who teach, there are no pushing like this in the style. The value of trying to push someone is of little use in real combat. Yes it serves to show a weak and floppy student that the sifu can throw them around, but so what? It does not serve to show a student the value of fa jin, because it is flawed to start off with in respect that the person who is receiving it is not in any position to ward it off, redirect it, absorb it, stand against it. So the sifu thinks he's real good and everyone else does, but he hasn't been tested in an appropriate way. That's why it is not impressive, there are literally hundreds out there who can do the same thing to floppy and weak students and they normally are. This is my point.

[flowing hands]

Flowery, showboating wushu, without any power. Real tai chi and internal arts is not for the sports hall demonstration.

I pay no attention to such competition.

Hey I think I'm going to be a troll like you and follow you around the board negating anything and everything you ever say even if I did open my mind and find something interesting!

 

So every time you put a post up I'm going to be like you and put "BS rubbish", don't you think that's really clever? Takes a lot of brains that!

[Protector]

Hi flowing hands. If you are indeed very advanced spiritually, I don't understand why you let anyone upset your composure. Isn't the worst thing to allow the shen to be out of composure?

 

Why do people always associate being nice and being spiritual as the same thing?

That's so wrong damit! There are so many scary spiritual people out there!

 

 

 

also BOO!

[flowing hands]

Hi flowing hands. If you are indeed very advanced spiritually, I don't understand why you let anyone upset your composure. Isn't the worst thing to allow the shen to be out of composure?

Yes, spiritually advanced means teaching lessons to others and having understanding about them and oneself by various means which allows both to grow. So lifeforce needs a lesson in self understanding and I need not to keep putting up with his stupid comments. He needs to know what he is doing and how silly and puerile it is; he doesn't seem to be able to recognize or see it for himself, so I have to show him how stupid it is to keep calling anything I say BS without any facts other than his own limited subjective mindset. I could say the moon is full tonight and he would say BS. I could say black is a nice colour and he would say BS. I could say the weather is lovely and he would say BS. He only knows one response to anything I say. I bet you when he reads this he'll reply, you've guessed it.... BS. Sometimes a lesson is needed to allow that person to see how they are acting or being and you never know, they may grow. No loss of composure, just a lesson! But then... he'll probably just say......BS, because anything out of his focus is BS.

[dwai]

You mistake what I am saying. I am not saying that one should demonstrate this on anyone! What I'm saying is that fa jin seems to be demonstrated by mostly tai chi and chi gong practitioners as being the ultimate test of their abilities by throwing some poorly positioned and floppy person against a wall or across the hall and this in some way demonstrates their great ability. I do not come from a solely tai chi back ground so I am completely out of what appears to be a way of thinking and seeing, which puts a great emphasis on this practice. You tube is littered with tai chi masters throwing people across the room. Its almost the thing to do if you're a tai chi teacher.

 

Lets put it in a different light. Karate is northern Chinese martial arts of black crane. Karate used to mean the hand of Han or China hand. In its recent history it is now called 'empty hand'.

As far I know from some of my friends who teach, there are no pushing like this in the style. The value of trying to push someone is of little use in real combat. Yes it serves to show a weak and floppy student that the sifu can throw them around, but so what? It does not serve to show a student the value of fa jin, because it is flawed to start off with in respect that the person who is receiving it is not in any position to ward it off, redirect it, absorb it, stand against it. So the sifu thinks he's real good and everyone else does, but he hasn't been tested in an appropriate way. That's why it is not impressive, there are literally hundreds out there who can do the same thing to floppy and weak students and they normally are. This is my point.

 

Im no master but i studied karate for a few years...while it doesnt have "pushing" it also doesnt do internal cultivation. Also agreed that a jin is not the end all of tai chi. But the 8 energies of ai cho are what makes it tai chi. Peng, li, an ji etc. so i dont see anything wrong in doing a push or a ward off etc....not all martial encounters need to maim and kill...,simply smacking someone into a wall might suffice in dissuading further aggression. From what i u dertand, each of these energies can be expressed in different ways, from different parts of the body...so retaining the form structure is a teaching tool...afterwards student has to improvise....

[Taomeow]

Anyone with push-hands experience would see it's real and pretty good. Not miraculous -- I am exposed to this (or better) level of training every week. But good and legit, solid work against a backdrop of excellent structure.

 

Of course, anyone with no real-life real-taiji push-hands experience could "form an opinion" of any nature whatsoever.

 

My teacher, former champion of Beijing, refers to his competing years as "the show-off things a youngster will do." He tells stories of all those champions that are glorified for a second and promptly discarded -- some of them proceed to sweep the pavement for a living, literally -- because their skill is for show and their glory is an exploitable product for a short while, and as soon as it has been exploited to the max, they get dropped like a pair of worn-out shoes.

 

Whereas folks who never competed give you a run for your money in their 90s... forget "immortal," how about "happy, healthy and strong and more so every year?" How about "the older you get, the greater your skill?" That's what real taiji does... championship taiji does the exact opposite. Like all sports.

[mYTHmAKER]

Anyone with push-hands experience would see it's real and pretty good. Not miraculous -- I am exposed to this (or better) level of training every week. But good and legit, solid work against a backdrop of excellent structure.

 

Of course, anyone with no real-life real-taiji push-hands experience could "form an opinion" of any nature whatsoever.

 

My teacher, former champion of Beijing, refers to his competing years as "the show-off things a youngster will do." He tells stories of all those champions that are glorified for a second and promptly discarded -- some of them proceed to sweep the pavement for a living, literally -- because their skill is for show and their glory is an exploitable product for a short while, and as soon as it has been exploited to the max, they get dropped like a pair of worn-out shoes.

 

Whereas folks who never competed give you a run for your money in their 90s... forget "immortal," how about "happy, healthy and strong and more so every year?" How about "the older you get, the greater your skill?" That's what real taiji does... championship taiji does the exact opposite. Like all sports.