Does AYP give bad kundalini advice?

[Kirtanman]

Hi TI,

 

Your sig. file states:

 

Rest the mind in the natural state, without distraction, without grasping or aversion.

 

That's a statement I can, and do, agree with completely. All that's pertinent with respect to the natural state, in my experience, is our own perspective and experience, right now.

 

All concepts, opinions, revisiting of the past and opinions about the past, ideas about the experiences of others, and so on, all fall into the categories of distraction, and/or grasping or aversion, I would say ... and so, they are not of interest to me.

 

Per your sig. file, I'm not so sure why they're of such interest to you.

 

All The Best,

 

Kirtanman

 

[Mokona]

Alan Wallace (and many buddhists writings) talks alot about vividness. He teaches how to increase vividness (which combats laxity and dullness). Doing his practices I have gotten to the point, on a few occasions that my thoughts were as bright and clear as if I was looking at normal reality. This is something that won't ever happen at AYP because AYP's deep meditation is training in laxity. It teaches the mind to become dull and thickens the veils. And I believe the various Buddhists who say that this can actually stilt the intelligence.\

 

 

Hey! Can I ask you a few questions about this? I have reached a few points in meditation where my thoughts and mind imagery became much louder and clearer. instead of thoughts being quiet or.. Well like thoughts they were loud and clear as if they were being spoke to me by someone right next to me, and the imagery was bright and vivid as you mentioned. Please excuse me, i'm not very adept at articulating myself. XD

 

If I take what you've mentioned above this is a good sign? The last time this happened it shocked me out of meditation because I thought someone was shouting at me!

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Mokona,

Yes, it is a good sign, and yes, it takes some getting used to when this happens. I think it is harder to identify vivid sounds for me because I'm more of a visual person and to me, a sound is just a sound. I guess it could be louder, or more crisp. I have heard some bells, electric gongs and other various sounds in my right ear, espescially before going to bed but that was before I was practising increasing vividness..

 

At first, when I started to learn how to increase vividness, aside from the fact that I was in awe that you could even do such a thing, I found myself mentally saying "increase vividness" on the in-breath and "relax body" on the out-breath. I stuck with this for a few days and then tried to drop the mental labeling and actually increase the vividness. Then I discovered, after the coarser mind settled down, that breathing in up to the point of being at the top of the in-breath naturally increases the vividness.

 

The method Alan Wallace describes to increase vividness is to show more interest, become more attentive and focus on the in-breath. I have also discovered that raising the gaze upwards increases vividness, and, lowering the gaze decreases vividness. Depending on how active your mind and body are, picking the best place to focus the eyes helps either settle the mind or increase vividness.

 

Then, I did one meditation where the breath nimitta appeared and got brighter on the in-breath and duller on the out-breath. It was at this point where I understood that this function is occuring naturally and you can increase the vividness of the contents of the mind by just paying more attention to the in-breath. When we are more interested in something, the body naturally breathes in even holds the breath in (at the top) for a while. This is increasing the clarity and vividness. The mind is naturally luminous, it just appears dull because there is so much going on in it and we've never trained in settling the mind or realized that things can be much brighter as we settle the mind.

 

A few days later, when I was meditating with eyes open down by the river, I increased the vividness to the point where the thoughts that were appearing were just as clear and bright as normal reality. This was kind of a shock at first and somewhat disconcerting. But is was very neat too. What a discovery. Now, I'm getting visions that I recall or manifest in crystal clarity and exceptional vividness. For example, I can think of an orange and it appears as a thought. But higher up in a certain slice of consciousness the image appears with great clarity and precision, and the background is dark deep blue. Didn't know the mind could do that..

 

. And, doing the practice with eyes open augments the effect. It is as Rex posted in another thread, the heart is connected to the eyes and when you meditate with eyes open, it keeps that connection stronger.

 

Anyways, if you'd like to listen to a meditation by Alan Wallace that walks you through the different techniques all the way to increasing and decreasing your vividness, try this link:

 

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=208

 

TI

[Birch]

If I can relax and be where I am, as I am, then where I am opens an ability to feel. The dynamic of the ability to feel allows for a relaxed experience of location at the moment. "Sharpen the wits to brilliance", said the Gautamid; "be aware of where you really are twenty four hours a day", said Yuanwu (the 12th-century Chan teacher). There comes a feeling for the necessity of the inhalation at the moment, and for the necessity of the exhalation; with such a feeling, is a free occurrence of perception and sensation.

 

It's good stuff Mark. What about when you get to a place (very physically) that you'd rather avoid, or not touch? I've not so far been able to do that in a 'relaxed' manner. More like I laser it, which might be a mispractice but I don't have excellent skills either so I'm not burning anything (I hope!)

[Kirtanman]

Hi TI & All,

 

Hi Mokona,

Yes, it is a good sign, and yes, it takes some getting used to when this happens. I think it is harder to identify vivid sounds for me because I'm more of a visual person and to me, a sound is just a sound. I guess it could be louder, or more crisp. I have heard some bells, electric gongs and other various sounds in my right ear, espescially before going to bed but that was before I was practising increasing vividness..

...

 

 

TI

 

Hey, TI -- when you're not practicing Argumentative Buddhism ... you've got some interesting and insightful stuff to say. As always, actually - but I was impressed with this reply - I haven't read much of what you've written since 2009 or so. Good stuff.

 

One of the reasons you've never seen me talk about vividness, specifically, is because I'm not familiar with a lot of Buddhist terminology, and this post helped me to be more clear on what you're referring to, with the term vividness.

 

I'd much rather share useful information than debate, for several reasons, including that, at heart, you and I, and pretty much everyone here, I presume, is about that which is beneficial.

 

Thanks again; good post.

 

 

 

Kirtanman

[Mark Foote]

It's good stuff Mark. What about when you get to a place (very physically) that you'd rather avoid, or not touch? I've not so far been able to do that in a 'relaxed' manner. More like I laser it, which might be a mispractice but I don't have excellent skills either so I'm not burning anything (I hope!)

Thanks, K. When you say you laser it, would that mean you extend feeling throughout the rest of body to minimize the sense of the body connected with the mind at that part?

[gatito]

It's good stuff Mark. What about when you get to a place (very physically) that you'd rather avoid, or not touch? I've not so far been able to do that in a 'relaxed' manner. More like I laser it, which might be a mispractice but I don't have excellent skills either so I'm not burning anything (I hope!)

 

...

Edited July 17, 2015 by gatito

[Birch]

Thanks, K. When you say you laser it, would that mean you extend feeling throughout the rest of body to minimize the sense of the body connected with the mind at that part?

 

No, it's more like a very concentrated focus that I keep putting back on the place I don't want to be in until 'something' arises from there.

[Mark Foote]

No, it's more like a very concentrated focus that I keep putting back on the place I don't want to be in until 'something' arises from there.

Ok, I think I've had that experience when I'm angry- sort of staying with the place before the eruption until some sense comes out of it, and a feeling of compassionate forgiveness. Can take a long time, the anger is real but the manifestations are inappropriate and holding place is the only thing that brings vision and resolution. Something like that?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Mark Foote

[FokusFyre]

Hey Tibetan_Ice GREAT thread/topic! This advice is very good. I would like to add that hands and feet in the dirt or at least feet is a very effective way of bringing Kundalini back down =)

[Tibetan_Ice]

Bump for Karl..

[ChiForce]

Bump for Karl..

I think I know his answer already......hehehehehe.... 

[Karl]

Bump for Karl..

 

Kundalini isnt something I have any experience of. It's a word which creates a kind of mental fog. I cannot criticise the AYP treatment of something I'm not acquainted with.