The Path to Enlightenment starts with you...

[Aaron]

Three or four years ago I rarely had the opportunity to talk to other people that were interested in Eastern philosophy. Up until then I had a very egocentric view of what Taoism was and what it meant, for that matter what the world meant. I was well read and had a decent practical knowledge of Taoism, but it was really through the insight of others that my awareness of certain things blossomed and I had sudden and sometimes gradual insight into the nature of things.

 

Before that time I believed that there was a higher power, a greater force that consciously controlled what happened in the universe and I believed that my purpose was to allow that higher power to work through me, rather than do what I wanted in this world. To a certain extent I still believe this, only my definition of the higher power has changed.

 

I mention these things because I believe that they are some of the first steps to a greater realization that most people must come to before they are able to become enlightened or aware of their true nature, in fact the steps are almost universal, but at the same time the arrival at these steps can vary depending on the person.

 

The first step is understanding that we are not the center of the universe, prior to this, there is little hope for achieving any form of greater awareness, simply because the desire for a greater awareness does not form, because we mistakenly believe we are already aware.

 

The second step usually comes to be as we become aware of our own place within the universe and accept it. We understand that the world is not so much about us, but rather that there is something greater to it than that. When we understand this then it is only natural to desire a fuller understanding of what that something is.

 

The third step is trying to understand what that something is, to open ourselves up to the possibility of something more than what we just perceive. When we do this we start to seek out paths that might grant us some knowledge of what that something might be, most often through examining the world's religions.

 

The fourth step is settling on what that greater something is and devoting ourselves to learning more about it through research and eventually, when research is not enough, practicing those religions. This is a very important time in our lives, because it is also the time when we should be most open to other possibilities. Oftentimes people reach this step and stick to the first religion or philosophy that makes sense to them, sometimes one based on our culture, sometimes not. In my own experience as a Lao Tzu Taoist I closed myself off to many other traditions and as a result limited my potential in understanding the world on a greater scale.

 

It is a sad fact that when we limit ourselves to one perceived idea of truth, that we are actually confining ourselves within a lie, because eventually, if we reach a certain degree of awareness then we begin to understand that every religion seems to have unraveled a piece of the puzzle, even those that we tend to discard.

 

Take for instance Christianity. For a long time I discounted it as being worthless on the whole, but I understand now that certain aspects of Christianity touch on a greater awareness of being. For instance the 'Lord's Prayer' is an excellent example of how one should practice as a Taoist or Buddhist... for those who might not remember it, it goes like this-

 

"Our Father which art in heaven,

Hollowed be they name,

Thy kingdom come,

Thy will be done,

on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive those who trespass against us.

Lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil,

For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever.

Amen"

 

If one discounts Christianity then they'll also discount certain pearls of wisdom that exist within this prayer. For instance it teaches us to turn our will and lives over to the care of God, or if you wish the universe, to ask only for what we need, no more, to not ask for forgiveness, if we cannot forgive others, and to look for guidance, but most importantly it tells us that God is everything in existence, the power (or Chi) that exists within all things, and the glory (or virtue) as well, and that it is eternal.

 

In Taoism we are told to trust in the Tao, to focus on our needs, rather than our wants, to be compassionate to our fellow man, and that the Tao is the creator of all things and that everything in existence stems from it. We also understand that by following the path of Tao we will be able to resist temptation and be delivered from evil... not too dissimilar.

 

One could ask, why bother to try to understand this prayer, if the Tao Te Ching already tells us this? Well it's because it's a different take on the experience that allows us a greater understanding of what all of this means. Even if we don't believe in God, the concepts within the prayer can benefit us in understanding exactly how we can live a virtuous and harmonious life.

 

Well I don't have much time left to type, so I'm going to stop there, but what I'm getting at is that many of us need to be open to the notion that our own individual path might not hold the entire truth that exists and that confining ourselves to it is limiting our own potential. The key is often seeing things from another perspective.

 

In my own experience I never understood the greater totality of experience until I learned about Vendanta. It was through Vedanta, Taoism, Christianity, and Buddhism that I started to gain insight into my own place within the grand scheme of things.

 

I look forward to comments.

 

Aaron

Edited April 30, 2012 by Twinner

[tulku]

Three or four years ago I rarely had the opportunity to talk to other people that were interested in Eastern philosophy. Up until then I had a very egocentric view of what Taoism was and what it meant, for that matter what the world meant. I was well read and had a decent practical knowledge of Taoism, but it was really through the insight of others that my awareness of certain things blossomed and I had sudden and sometimes gradual insight into the nature of things.

 

Before that time I believed that there was a higher power, a greater force that consciously controlled what happened in the universe and I believed that my purpose was to allow that higher power to work through me, rather than do what I wanted in this world. To a certain extent I still believe this, only my definition of the higher power has changed.

 

I mention these things because I believe that they are some of the first steps to a greater realization that most people must come to before they are able to become enlightened or aware of their true nature, in fact the steps are almost universal, but at the same time the arrival at these steps can vary depending on the person.

 

The first step is understanding that we are not the center of the universe, prior to this, there is little hope for achieving any form of greater awareness, simply because the desire for a greater awareness does not form, because we mistakenly believe we are already aware.

 

The second step usually comes to be as we become aware of our own place within the universe and accept it. We understand that the world is not so much about us, but rather that there is something greater to it than that. When we understand this then it is only natural to desire a fuller understanding of what that something is.

 

The third step is trying to understand what that something is, to open ourselves up to the possibility of something more than what we just perceive. When we do this we start to seek out paths that might grant us some knowledge of what that something might be, most often through examining the world's religions.

 

The fourth step is settling on what that greater something is and devoting ourselves to learning more about it through research and eventually, when research is not enough, practicing those religions. This is a very important time in our lives, because it is also the time when we should be most open to other possibilities. Oftentimes people reach this step and stick to the first religion or philosophy that makes sense to them, sometimes one based on our culture, sometimes not. In my own experience as a Lao Tzu Taoist I closed myself off to many other traditions and as a result limited my potential in understanding the world on a greater scale.

 

It is a sad fact that when we limit ourselves to one perceived idea of truth, that we are actually confining ourselves within a lie, because eventually, if we reach a certain degree of awareness then we begin to understand that every religion seems to have unraveled a piece of the puzzle, even those that we tend to discard.

 

Take for instance Christianity. For a long time I discounted it as being worthless on the whole, but I understand now that certain aspects of Christianity touch on a greater awareness of being. For instance the 'Lord's Prayer' is an excellent example of how one should practice as a Taoist or Buddhist... for those who might not remember it, it goes like this-

 

"Our Father which art in heaven,

Hollowed be they name,

Thy kingdom come,

Thy will be done,

on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive those who trespass against us.

Lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil,

For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever.

Amen"

 

If one discounts Christianity then they'll also discount certain pearls of wisdom that exist within this prayer. For instance it teaches us to turn our will and lives over to the care of God, or if you wish the universe, to ask only for what we need, no more, to not ask for forgiveness, if we cannot forgive others, and to look for guidance, but most importantly it tells us that God is everything in existence, the power (or Chi) that exists within all things, and the glory (or virtue) as well, and that it is eternal.

 

In Taoism we are told to trust in the Tao, to focus on our needs, rather than our wants, to be compassionate to our fellow man, and that the Tao is the creator of all things and that everything in existence stems from it. We also understand that by following the path of Tao we will be able to resist temptation and be delivered from evil... not too dissimilar.

 

One could ask, why bother to try to understand this prayer, if the Tao Te Ching already tells us this? Well it's because it's a different take on the experience that allows us a greater understanding of what all of this means. Even if we don't believe in God, the concepts within the prayer can benefit us in understanding exactly how we can live a virtuous and harmonious life.

 

Well I don't have much time left to type, so I'm going to stop there, but what I'm getting at is that many of us need to be open to the notion that our own individual path might not hold the entire truth that exists and that confining ourselves to it is limiting our own potential. The key is often seeing things from another perspective.

 

In my own experience I never understood the greater totality of experience until I learned about Vendanta. It was through Vedanta, Taoism, Christianity, and Buddhism that I started to gain insight into my own place within the grand scheme of things.

 

I look forward to comments.

 

Aaron

 

In response to your post (i finally see some good points in this post though)..

 

1) I am the center of my own universe for I know I am part of the Creator.. I only need to achieve a greater awareness of my own Self cos it is only through having an awareness of my own Self then do I become aware of the Creator..

 

2) I don't accept my place in the Universe and I will seek to continuously expand myself until I become as Infinite as the Universe itself.

 

My Universe in only about Me and the Creator and there is nothing else which exists in My Universe besides Me and the Creator.

 

3) You will never understand the totality of the Universe until you develop the psychic powers to interact with the Universe itself.

[Protector]

Cool post, Twinner!

[Marblehead]

Ah!, another "enlightenment" thread.

 

I follow a crocked path but I still know that I am exactly where I am supposed to be.

[Aaron]

Ah!, another "enlightenment" thread.

 

I follow a crocked path but I still know that I am exactly where I am supposed to be.

 

Well we both know that doesn't mean you're where other people are supposed to be.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

It's a neat post Twinner!

 

To be able to reach the messages within the concepts through the words. However, since I still consider myself bound by words (try something to piss me off, I guarantee you it will work even if I just try my best to watch for it not to work, still means it works, bummer ) I do feel there might be some amendments made to certain variants because they still manage to tie people down and (ironically, in spite of the messages offered) provide rationale for tying other people down. That's the part I hate. Really, what would happen if people were not tied down by these things?

 

I suppose though that the hard religious precepts might be hard enough for some people to start questioning them very fast. 'You're a sheep' for example. In other words if you're having a very pleasant cushy time without any particular consciousness of anything except eating grass and being protected from wolves by the guy who tells you when and where to go, you could be running the pasture to ruin in a handbasket. But apparently, and more often (seems to me), an inquisition of some kind turns up with the mandate to have you unquestion pretty fast.

 

Now, off to cook up some cinnabar.

 

---- opinion etc----

 

Edit: link added RT http://t.co/KjR6bOn6

Edited May 1, 2012 by -K-

[Aaron]

It's a neat post Twinner!

 

To be able to reach the messages within the concepts through the words. However, since I still consider myself bound by words (try something to piss me off, I guarantee you it will work even if I just try my best to watch for it not to work, still means it works, bummer ) I do feel there might be some amendments made to certain variants because they still manage to tie people down and (ironically, in spite of the messages offered) provide rationale for tying other people down. That's the part I hate. Really, what would happen if people were not tied down by these things?

 

I suppose though that the hard religious precepts might be hard enough for some people to start questioning them very fast. 'You're a sheep' for example. In other words if you're having a very pleasant cushy time without any particular consciousness of anything except eating grass and being protected from wolves by the guy who tells you when and where to go, you could be running the pasture to ruin in a handbasket. But apparently, and more often (seems to me), an inquisition of some kind turns up with the mandate to have you unquestion pretty fast.

 

Now, off to cook up some cinnabar.

 

---- opinion etc----

 

Very good points K, I think what you're doing here is expanding on my points in step four, that we should not limit ourselves to only what is within our path, but be open to those answers that lay beyond it. A wise man sees how little he knows and is willing to learn, he understands that he is a fool and being content with being a fool is humble enough to accept wisdom when it is presented to him.

 

No one should be a sheep except sheep. Of course I think sheep have a greater consciousness than just eating grass too, but what we can learn from sheep is the ability to trust that others may have something to offer us and within this trust find out one of the greater realizations that exist. Before we can trust ourselves, we must first trust others. A sheep's life depends on trusting that, not only will the other sheep protect them from the wolves by sounding an alarm when they are near, but also the shepherd himself. They trust that the sheep dog knows where to take them and when they wander off, more often than not, when the shepherd calls for them, they come to him.

 

A wise teacher is a good shepherd. He does not need to hit the sheep for them to follow them, he only needs to show that he cares for their well being. If in our path we find someone who does not exhibit these qualities, then surely we should seek another flock to take refuge in.

 

Of course there are other ways to live as well, we could easily be like the wolf or lion, but in my opinion, all three survive because they depend on each other. A good question to ask ourselves is who do we depend on?

 

Aaron

[Birch]

Ok Twinner, you managed to piss me off with your words (kind of).

 

I don't recall a "4th point" but I suppose you saw one.

 

Your attempt to show off my post in the first point as simply an expansion of yours, well what a nerve!

 

When was the last time you spent any time amongst sheep? You must be imagining!

 

Me, around 25 years ago, and I had a dog and some sheperds (actual farmers) with me.

 

---opinion etc---

 

(Hey Aaron, I'm just pi$$ing around with this stuff' - don't get mad;-))

[Aaron]

Ok Twinner, you managed to piss me off with your words (kind of).

 

I don't recall a "4th point" but I suppose you saw one.

 

Your attempt to show off my post in the first point as simply an expansion of yours, well what a nerve!

 

When was the last time you spent any time amongst sheep? You must be imagining!

 

Me, around 25 years ago, and I had a dog and some sheperds (actual farmers) with me.

 

---opinion etc---

 

(Hey Aaron, I'm just pi$ing around with this stuff' - don't get mad;-))

 

Heh... well I'm sure it's not the first time I've pissed you off and it wont be the last. I'm also pretty sure you'll forgive me.

 

I did see the first point as an expansion of mine, but only because I had thought about what you were talking about and didn't have the time to add it, so I alluded to it. I've been working 10+ hour days for the last week and I don't have as much time as I used to to write (or read).

 

If someone chooses to use your ideas to expand their own, that's a compliment, because they saw something valuable enough to add to their own ideas. No need to take offense. I'm sorry if it upset you. I do like your honesty though, never mince words. It's nice when someone actually tells you ahead of time that they're starting to upset you, rather than wait and let it all out in one long stream of anger.

 

I spent time among sheep in Maine when I was a child at a small farm near the outskirts of Dover-Foxcroft. I was actually quite frightened of them, because they were always running around in a herd and I was certain they would trample me. They also had pigs, cows, and goats. I remember that the farmer who raised the sheep would whistle when it was time to bring the sheep to the pen and the dogs would run out and gather them up and bring them down to where they spent the nights.

 

That's why I mentioned my sheep analogy. Anyways, it's a nice memory and perhaps an idealistic analogy, but still some food for thought. Have a good night.

 

Aaron

Edited May 1, 2012 by Twinner

[C T]

"When we observe, really observe our own minds, we will notice an infinite number of thoughts follow each other in continuous succession. If we give our undivided attention to each thought in turn, observing the first thought, the second thought, and so on, each one disappears of itself, and what we will find is nothing remains, no permanent marks anywhere, just arising, dwelling for the briefest moment due to thoughts' own subtle energetic movement, and then vanishes. The original Dzogchen texts affirm in this regard: 'Finding nothing is the most you can find'. Our real condition is emptiness, so what is there to find? Even if we believe there is something to find, there is in fact nothing there. When you discover for yourself there is really nothing there within the flow of mind, you have made the greatest discovery." (Chogyal Namkhai Norbu)

 

 

 

Something which i am reflecting on today...

Edited May 1, 2012 by C T

[C T]

To clarify even more, Paltrul Rinpoche, with precision, advised thus:

 

"The practitioner of self-liberation is like an ordinary person as far as the way

in which the thoughts of pleasure and pain, hope and fear, manifest themselves

as creative energy. However, the ordinary person, taking these really seriously

and judging them as acceptable or rejecting them, continues to get caught up

in situations and becomes conditioned by attachment and aversion.

 

Not doing this, a practitioner, when such thoughts arise, experiences freedom;

initially, by recognizing the thought for what it is, it is freed, just like meeting

an old acquaintance; then it is freed in and of itself, like a snake shedding its

skin; and finally, one can reach the state where thoughts free themselves upon

arising, neither bringing benefit or harm, like a thief entering an empty house.

 

Freeing or liberating thought does not mean ignoring, letting go of, being

indifferent to, observing, or even not having thoughts. It means being present

in hope and fear, pain and pleasure, not as objects before us, but as the radiant

clarity of our natural state. Thus anger, for example, when experienced dualistically,

is an irritation which we may indulge in or reject, depending on our conditioning.

Either way we are caught up in it and act out of it. But when aware of anger as a

manifestation of clarity, its energy is a very fresh awareness of the particulars of the

situation. However, these particulars are no longer irritating."

Edited May 1, 2012 by C T

[z00se]

I disagree.

 

I think the path to enlightenment is ALL about you. Starts ends and finishes with you?

 

 

 

Take for instance Christianity. For a long time I discounted it as being worthless on the whole, but I understand now that certain aspects of Christianity touch on a greater awareness of being. For instance the 'Lord's Prayer' is an excellent example of how one should practice as a Taoist or Buddhist... for those who might not remember it, it goes like this-

 

 

There are some perls but the are all shrouded by utter crap to confuse the hell out of everyone, so of course people need a priest to decrypt the meaning.

 

It's interesting and satisfying for the ego to read, study, compare and try to decrypt religous nonsence but it does nothing to help us on this path. If the time spent reading, discussing and thinking about holy texts was used to reflect internally, progress would be ten fold...

 

There are all the religions you speak of but they all come to the same point. The thrill one feels as they understand a new religous text, one finds on some 'new' level is short lived, until they find another more challenging text and the thrill is recieved again. It is all a waste of time. In fact it is going backwards, it's just more crap that you need to unlearn, and because of the thrill of understanding something so sacred and special it is all the more difficult to 'let go' of it. It's only when you stop this cycle and prove to yourself that you don't need to test yourself and your understanding any more with religious rubbish that was written by a FOLLOWER (all the chapters of the bibles were written by followers) that finally you will realise you don't need to try to understand the writings of a follower who doesn't even fully understand the person they are following and learning from. Then one's own light shines bright and the others begin to follow him.

 

Of course you can't deny that the other religions are there but when your own thought comes from the divine they are old and outdated. Your own insight is the most valuable of all. Holy texts are just ideas that are sometimes right.

 

I don't believe in religions, i believe in myself

[3bob]

Three or four years ago I rarely had the opportunity to talk to other people that were interested in Eastern philosophy. Up until then I had a very egocentric view of what Taoism was and what it meant, for that matter what the world meant. I was well read and had a decent practical knowledge of Taoism, but it was really through the insight of others that my awareness of certain things blossomed and I had sudden and sometimes gradual insight into the nature of things.

 

Before that time I believed that there was a higher power, a greater force that consciously controlled what happened in the universe and I believed that my purpose was to allow that higher power to work through me, rather than do what I wanted in this world. To a certain extent I still believe this, only my definition of the higher power has changed.

 

I mention these things because I believe that they are some of the first steps to a greater realization that most people must come to before they are able to become enlightened or aware of their true nature, in fact the steps are almost universal, but at the same time the arrival at these steps can vary depending on the person.

 

The first step is understanding that we are not the center of the universe, prior to this, there is little hope for achieving any form of greater awareness, simply because the desire for a greater awareness does not form, because we mistakenly believe we are already aware.

 

The second step usually comes to be as we become aware of our own place within the universe and accept it. We understand that the world is not so much about us, but rather that there is something greater to it than that. When we understand this then it is only natural to desire a fuller understanding of what that something is.

 

The third step is trying to understand what that something is, to open ourselves up to the possibility of something more than what we just perceive. When we do this we start to seek out paths that might grant us some knowledge of what that something might be, most often through examining the world's religions.

 

The fourth step is settling on what that greater something is and devoting ourselves to learning more about it through research and eventually, when research is not enough, practicing those religions. This is a very important time in our lives, because it is also the time when we should be most open to other possibilities. Oftentimes people reach this step and stick to the first religion or philosophy that makes sense to them, sometimes one based on our culture, sometimes not. In my own experience as a Lao Tzu Taoist I closed myself off to many other traditions and as a result limited my potential in understanding the world on a greater scale.

 

It is a sad fact that when we limit ourselves to one perceived idea of truth, that we are actually confining ourselves within a lie, because eventually, if we reach a certain degree of awareness then we begin to understand that every religion seems to have unraveled a piece of the puzzle, even those that we tend to discard.

 

Take for instance Christianity. For a long time I discounted it as being worthless on the whole, but I understand now that certain aspects of Christianity touch on a greater awareness of being. For instance the 'Lord's Prayer' is an excellent example of how one should practice as a Taoist or Buddhist... for those who might not remember it, it goes like this-

 

"Our Father which art in heaven,

Hollowed be they name,

Thy kingdom come,

Thy will be done,

on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive those who trespass against us.

Lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil,

For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever.

Amen"

 

If one discounts Christianity then they'll also discount certain pearls of wisdom that exist within this prayer. For instance it teaches us to turn our will and lives over to the care of God, or if you wish the universe, to ask only for what we need, no more, to not ask for forgiveness, if we cannot forgive others, and to look for guidance, but most importantly it tells us that God is everything in existence, the power (or Chi) that exists within all things, and the glory (or virtue) as well, and that it is eternal.

 

In Taoism we are told to trust in the Tao, to focus on our needs, rather than our wants, to be compassionate to our fellow man, and that the Tao is the creator of all things and that everything in existence stems from it. We also understand that by following the path of Tao we will be able to resist temptation and be delivered from evil... not too dissimilar.

 

One could ask, why bother to try to understand this prayer, if the Tao Te Ching already tells us this? Well it's because it's a different take on the experience that allows us a greater understanding of what all of this means. Even if we don't believe in God, the concepts within the prayer can benefit us in understanding exactly how we can live a virtuous and harmonious life.

 

Well I don't have much time left to type, so I'm going to stop there, but what I'm getting at is that many of us need to be open to the notion that our own individual path might not hold the entire truth that exists and that confining ourselves to it is limiting our own potential. The key is often seeing things from another perspective.

 

In my own experience I never understood the greater totality of experience until I learned about Vendanta. It was through Vedanta, Taoism, Christianity, and Buddhism that I started to gain insight into my own place within the grand scheme of things.

 

I look forward to comments.

 

Aaron

 

On the other hand, choosing a path and sticking to it does not mean that it or you are now being confined, for if sticking to such a path gives preparation for Spirit recognizing Spirit then the quintessentail Truth beyond yet within forms has been realized, and that is not-limiting in any way as Truth sees truths that are part of all paths.

[Aaron]

I disagree.

 

I think the path to enlightenment is ALL about you. Starts ends and finishes with you?

 

 

 

 

There are some perls but the are all shrouded by utter crap to confuse the hell out of everyone, so of course people need a priest to decrypt the meaning.

 

It's interesting and satisfying for the ego to read, study, compare and try to decrypt religous nonsence but it does nothing to help us on this path. If the time spent reading, discussing and thinking about holy texts was used to reflect internally, progress would be ten fold...

 

There are all the religions you speak of but they all come to the same point. The thrill one feels as they understand a new religous text, one finds on some 'new' level is short lived, until they find another more challenging text and the thrill is recieved again. It is all a waste of time. In fact it is going backwards, it's just more crap that you need to unlearn, and because of the thrill of understanding something so sacred and special it is all the more difficult to 'let go' of it. It's only when you stop this cycle and prove to yourself that you don't need to test yourself and your understanding any more with religious rubbish that was written by a FOLLOWER (all the chapters of the bibles were written by followers) that finally you will realise you don't need to try to understand the writings of a follower who doesn't even fully understand the person they are following and learning from. Then one's own light shines bright and the others begin to follow him.

 

Of course you can't deny that the other religions are there but when your own thought comes from the divine they are old and outdated. Your own insight is the most valuable of all. Holy texts are just ideas that are sometimes right.

 

I don't believe in religions, i believe in myself

 

You seem to be biased to one extreme, this is what I was talking about when I said, being confined within a lie, because you fail to see that much of the study that came down the line isn't crap at all, but it stems from realizations regarding virtue and awareness. We all enter this world as followers, we must follow in order to learn, there's nothing wrong with being a follower.

 

Now there will always be lies within the religion, that's because most are manipulated in a way to ensure that society is malleable and obedient. This doesn't mean that the religion's themselves don't possess something worth investigation, to discount the foundation of the practice because of the institutions they've become is silly and will inevitably prevent you from being able to see awareness from more than just your own egocentric view.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

On the other hand, choosing a path and sticking to it does not mean that it or you are now being confined, for if sticking to such a path gives preparation for Spirit recognizing Spirit then the quintessentail Truth beyond yet within forms has been realized, and that is not-limiting in any way as Truth sees truths that are part of all paths.

 

What I was touching on, wasn't what enlightenment was, but rather what propels people's towards achieving it. I think if we're willing to drop concrete terminologies like spirit and enlightenment and instead allow ourselves to examine things with an open mind, we can see how many of the experiences that occur throughout the spectrum of religions is similar, that the only thing that changes them is the definitions.

 

I'm not even saying one must follow a religion, just that 99.99% of the time, that's how people are inspired to seek something greater.

 

Aaron

[Owledge]

(deleted)

Edited May 2, 2012 by Owledge

[Birch]

Hey Aaron,

 

No worries:-) I had set myself a little word-trap to see if I could spot which I were respectively honest and dishonest about:-)

[Marblehead]

Watched a doumentary on lightning this afternoon and the question arose in my mind: If one is struck by lightning does he/she become enlightened?

[Aaron]

Watched a doumentary on lightning this afternoon and the question arose in my mind: If one is struck by lightning does he/she become enlightened?

 

No they become enlightening.

 

Bwahahaha

 

Aaron

[manitou]

I'm not even saying one must follow a religion, just that 99.99% of the time, that's how people are inspired to seek something greater.

 

Aaron

 

 

Are you sure about that figure? Seems to me lots of us find it by crashing and burning.

[Aaron]

Are you sure about that figure? Seems to me lots of us find it by crashing and burning.

 

No I'm not sure, just an estimate with no basis on fact... perhaps it's better to say the VAST majority find it through religion and philosophy. Remember AA is an excellent example of a philosophy turned religious. I don't think many people who have experience with AA would deny that it is very much a religion.

 

Aaron

[manitou]

No I'm not sure, just an estimate with no basis on fact... perhaps it's better to say the VAST majority find it through religion and philosophy. Remember AA is an excellent example of a philosophy turned religious. I don't think many people who have experience with AA would deny that it is very much a religion.

 

Aaron

 

 

I'm not talking about AA - that was the starting point. I'm talking about the route of self realization - and often the only way to even start that process is by some sort of a loss, alcohol related or not. So often the shattering of the ego shell has to be done in whatever way life chooses - auto accident, divorce, addiction, that brick wall in life that does us in and we realize we're not such hot stuff after all. That thing that kicks off the humility...

 

Only with a modicum of humility can the process start. Then the triangle of enlightenment can occur; the inner vision combined with the spirit of wu-wei, the spirit of te, and wearing the knowledge of our god-being.

 

And then once the enlightenment has 'occurred' (although my guess is that it is indeed a process of aha!'s based on the alignment of our outer experience with our inner knowledge); also thrown into the mix must of course be the words of others - those words which have formed a ladder of knowledge of the combined consciousness of mankind, which each new generation can now readily avail by merely reading the thoughts of one who lived many centuries ago.

 

It seems that mankind is enlightening en masse, in a sense. Just look at the input just our little group of friends puts into this electronic brain of our Creation, the internet. Of course the news channels don't report things like this; the input of enlightenment into cyberspace. But reported or not, it is there and We have created it. Again, apparently.

 

Miss you, Aaron! Come over to Riding the Ox in General Discussion...

[Aaron]

I'm not talking about AA - that was the starting point. I'm talking about the route of self realization - and often the only way to even start that process is by some sort of a loss, alcohol related or not. So often the shattering of the ego shell has to be done in whatever way life chooses - auto accident, divorce, addiction, that brick wall in life that does us in and we realize we're not such hot stuff after all. That thing that kicks off the humility...

 

Only with a modicum of humility can the process start. Then the triangle of enlightenment can occur; the inner vision combined with the spirit of wu-wei, the spirit of te, and wearing the knowledge of our god-being.

 

And then once the enlightenment has 'occurred' (although my guess is that it is indeed a process of aha!'s based on the alignment of our outer experience with our inner knowledge); also thrown into the mix must of course be the words of others - those words which have formed a ladder of knowledge of the combined consciousness of mankind, which each new generation can now readily avail by merely reading the thoughts of one who lived many centuries ago.

 

It seems that mankind is enlightening en masse, in a sense. Just look at the input just our little group of friends puts into this electronic brain of our Creation, the internet. Of course the news channels don't report things like this; the input of enlightenment into cyberspace. But reported or not, it is there and We have created it. Again, apparently.

 

Miss you, Aaron! Come over to Riding the Ox in General Discussion...

 

I'm having enough trouble just walking these days, the thought of riding an ox is a bit more than I can handle. Thanks though...

 

Aaron