Yogiraj SatGurunath Siddhanath

[Cheshire Cat]

You can't go to being objective in a field that is entirely subjective imho. You have to trust your intuition and ability to discern between desirable and undesirable without going through the rational process. After a point, the spiritual world is beyond rationality.

 

An objective thing could be -for example- the actual lineage and the verifiability of the stories that surrounds the school: for example, I'm not keen at the idea of himalayan channeled masters

[dwai]

An objective thing could be -for example- the actual lineage and the verifiability of the stories that surrounds the school: for example, I'm not keen at the idea of himalayan channeled masters

 

interesting...of course I don't know the history of this particular teacher. But I've had one teacher who taught pretty *hardcore* tantric yoga and claimed that he was in direct communion with Siddha Bogarnath. That didn't diminish the power of what he was teaching...I'm just saying we should keep an open mind.

[mystery]

If the satguru is indeed a satguru, channeling for him/her/ them would be like what wiggling your fingers would be to you

Edited December 10, 2016 by mystery

[mystery]

<+_>

Edited December 10, 2016 by mystery

[3bob]

to know oneself as Atman and Sat Guru as that same Atman is telling...all else is of mind...and mind and its powers are not Atman.

Edited December 10, 2016 by 3bob

[Cheshire Cat]

interesting...of course I don't know the history of this particular teacher. But I've had one teacher who taught pretty *hardcore* tantric yoga and claimed that he was in direct communion with Siddha Bogarnath. That didn't diminish the power of what he was teaching...I'm just saying we should keep an open mind.

 

Surely an open mind is a great quality to make progress in the spiritual path, but critical thinking is -in my opinion- crucial in one's life: I mean that faith shouldn't be blind and the seeker should set a standard to evaluate the guru.

 

In this example, I know and I have practised quite powerful tantric -and non-tantric- techniques under various gurus which revealed themselves to be harmful on the long term.

 

By what standard are they powerful?

Because I got strong sensations, prophetic dreams, a noble aura which impressed everyone and ability of manifestation.

 

Why are they harmful if they produce such amazing benefits?

Because there are many techniques which develop the spirit at the expense of the body, meaning they shorten the lifespan. 

The degree of damage is measured by the strength of one's practice: you could transform yourself into a spiritual giant... and die at 50, for example.

The guru will never admit that and here one's critical thinking should kick in and be objective in his conclusions: for example, imagine that -as a result of your meditation- your semen will start to pass into your bladder. You may call it vajroli mudra and keep the logic technique is correct + bizarre sanskrit name---> result is correct ... but I wouldn't do that.

 

 

to know oneself as Atman and Sat Guru as that same Atman is telling...all else is of mind...and mind and its powers are not Atman.

 

Isn't "Atman" the result of centuries of speculative thinking in indian philosophies?

Should we really consider this concept as substantial? Why?

[3bob]

Cheshire cat,

Atman is not alluded to as speculative, (for instance per the Chandogya Upanishad) but it's great pointers can never be proof of that which is pointed to;  so if you or someone else wants to make it a speculative exercise that's your or their personal take or business along with associated results.

 

Consider such as you will, for anyone trying to force a "why" would be counter productive and futile.

[Cheshire Cat]

3bob,

I still consider the Atman as a product of speculative thinking: it's not present in the Ṛgveda and it developed later in the Upanishads along with the concepts of karma and reincarnation.

This stuff became quite popular at the time of the Buddha.

[gatito]

चैतन्यमात्मा ॥१॥
Caitanyamātmā ||1||
Consciousness which is omniscient and omnipotent (caitanyam) (is) the Self or true nature of Reality (ātmā) ||1||

 

Vasugupta (860–925 AD)

 

A simple starting experiment:

 

 

 

[3bob]

ones speculation, or speculation on speculations has it own rewards... who could rightly speculate on stealing such rewards  from them?

Edited December 10, 2016 by 3bob

[dwai]

3bob,

I still consider the Atman as a product of speculative thinking: it's not present in the Ṛgveda and it developed later in the Upanishads along with the concepts of karma and reincarnation.

This stuff became quite popular at the time of the Buddha.

The Upanishads are also a part of the Vedas.

 

Atman is present in every text associated with the Upanishads. Don't fall for the western influenced chronology that people ascribe to the Upanishads. The primary ones predate the Buddha by a good 1500 years!

[Cheshire Cat]

I'm really thankful because you're trying to share something that is significant and meaningful for you.

 

But still, I can't develop the faith to believe in the concept of Atman which is truly produced and expanded in the Upanishads, a group of ancient texts that constitute commentaries and extensions for Ṛgveda, Sāmaveda, Yajurveda e Atharvaveda. They were written later and this is an historical fact: you can't find the idea of the Atman  and his reincarnation in the earlier texts. Rather there's the ancestral human belief in the "realm of the ancestors".

 

Ancient greek philosophy is full of similarly-born ideas, but many of those had an unfortunate destiny in the hands of christians and muslisms.

 

I don't  believe something just because an ancient said so ... and BTW, the self-inquiry that is often presented to experience the atman is pretty much the same that is used in many buddhist schools to experience Anatta (An-Atman, no atman).

[gatito]

<snip>

 

I don't  believe something just because an ancient said so ... and BTW, the self-inquiry that is often presented to experience the atman is pretty much the same that is used in many buddhist schools to experience Anatta (An-Atman, no atman).

 

Exactly!

 

That's why I'm also a Buddhist.

 

[3bob]

Cheshire cat, If you are satisfied with your beliefs and the results they bring you that is obviously yours to have and to hold,  as I said or tried to imply - no one that is new today or from thousands of years ago can really prove certain things to anyone else - the onus is on us to find our own proofs or the Proof, and also not to force beliefs or speculations on others against their will...  Thus to me having an agnostic like approach to certain matters has value and may end up giving results beyond doubt, beliefs or non-beliefs that we may have (previously) set in stone.

Edited December 10, 2016 by 3bob

[dwai]

I'm really thankful because you're trying to share something that is significant and meaningful for you.

 

But still, I can't develop the faith to believe in the concept of Atman which is truly produced and expanded in the Upanishads, a group of ancient texts that constitute commentaries and extensions for Ṛgveda, Sāmaveda, Yajurveda e Atharvaveda. They were written later and this is an historical fact: you can't find the idea of the Atman and his reincarnation in the earlier texts. Rather there's the ancestral human belief in the "realm of the ancestors".

 

Ancient greek philosophy is full of similarly-born ideas, but many of those had an unfortunate destiny in the hands of christians and muslisms.

 

I don't believe something just because an ancient said so ... and BTW, the self-inquiry that is often presented to experience the atman is pretty much the same that is used in many buddhist schools to experience Anatta (An-Atman, no atman).

Anatta is what Vedanta refers to as jiva. It is not the True Self. The practice is very simple. Ask yourself "who am I?" And then use your mind to trace back to the source from where both the question and the answer arise.

[3bob]

I'd agree with that Dwai as far as the mind can reach which is to the threshold of the Self...at which point mind and memory  must stop or be set down since they can not make the crossing.

 

(edit: or is this along the lines of what you meant?)

Edited December 11, 2016 by 3bob

[mystery]

Kriya yoga doesn't help spirit at the expense of the body. Kriya yoga would be the number one thing I know of right to heal my body, and I've been investigating the most healing things I can discover for years for body, mind, and soul so to speak. Ever since I've been doing Kriya yoga with gurunath, much has occurred increasing the health and wellness of my body. I am being blunt and I know what I am referring to is cause of the kriya. I'm open to finding something more healing, I just haven't yet.

I mean, certain psychedelics can be increasingly effective for healing certain diseases of the body and psychology, of course. Certain other practices can be powerful too. But there's just something about that Kriya that is very exceptional and special haha.

Have you even done his Kriya yoga? What do you REALLY know about it?

Edited December 11, 2016 by mystery

[Cheshire Cat]

mystery,

I'm pleased to hear that you receive benefits from your practice and -more importantly- that you feel spiritually satisfied.

 

I have all the practices of Lahiri's Kriya yoga and the -so called- 144 kriyas of babaji: I will not add any specifications to my previous post which is deliberately vague. I'm not a spiritual reformer and I'm not interested in sharing the details of my view about kriya yoga.

 

I think that to balance this thread, we need someone who is critic about Gurunath and who has practised with him.

 

[mystery]

Is your Kriya yoga blessed/empowered by a satguru or another advanced being? That's a big part of it being successful.

[Pilgrim]

Hi mystery,

 

My opinion is just that only an opinion. It is not meant to be the truth for anyone.

 

I did my research and when it came up the way it did so swiftly there was no reason to continue wasting time on a dead lead.

 

I have seen his videos I have spoken with his people chosen to train others. People in that position are most certainly representatives of the teacher and the teaching they represent.

 

Know a tree by it's fruit.

 

Know a teacher by his students.

 

The impression of the videos are not favorable they come across as advertisement.

 

I have seen him dismiss a woman in one of his videos acting very callous towards her and that was a dead turn off. In fact I really wanted to like this Moses looking figure so much I took the next step and talked to his available appointed teacher for close to 2 hours.

 

The impression from that person who teaches in his name initiates and instructs in his name was not good as they were only too eager to gossip about well, quite frankly persons like yourself, his followers and other teachers and they had very little good to say.

 

I was told by the teacher that she thought he was the real deal but there was too much B.S. surrounding him by way of his followers and with his celebrity status and followers territorial turmoil concerning and surrounding him with people begging like dogs for scraps of attention, there was no chance of a personal relationship with him as a guru.

 

Beyond this I have no further information as there was and is absolutely no interest in becoming another member of an organization as they tend to exist mostly for the sake of their own existence as happens due to necessity of planning financing etc....

 

In closing I apologize for upsetting you.

[mystery]

I am going to be blunt. Much of what you said is pathetically ignorant. But will your mental rigidity allow you to see that? I bet not. You might even take what I say negatively cause of pride. 

Even the Tao/Tao Te Ching/Lao Tzu may have poor students/poor representatives/poor teachers of them. You're really going to put down Tao/Tao Te Ching cause of its students/teachers/representatives? That is literally your logic. By that logic every thing relevant is a fraud cause every tree is capable of having spoiled fruits even though others may be ripely delicious/healthy. What cannot? 

 

Even if a beautiful, healthy fruit falls from Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath, a student/representative could spoil it. Even someone who has received genuine blessing and empowerment, may be ignorant still. I am someone like that. Kriya yoga is not a magic pill, it is causal until it is non causal. It burns karma, but there can be much karma to burn through. Don't you know what that means?

Has Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath claimed that any of his students/teachers/representatives are even Paramansas? No, the so called teachers are likely students who have been practicing  very, very, very simple techniques that are helping other students learn the very very very very simple techniques. They are students. They still need to become much more "advanced" so to speak before even becoming paramansas. Teaching the techniques does not take much realization. They are still beginners.

Jesus allegedly said "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

 

Tung Shan, an ancient Chinese Zen Master and founder of the Soto Zen school, once sang: "Of students as many as the sands of the Ganges, not one is awakened. 

Their faults lie in their search for tracks left by the tongues of others.

Forget all forms and wipe out all traces that you may diligently walk in the Void."

What is more difficult to guide one to than awakening? Being awakened is simple, but the rigidity of the mind makes it difficult to awaken. Are you so arrogant so that you feel you are awakened? Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath is indeed a sat guru. He is even very personable. I am thankful that he is assisting myself. The vastness of his help is astonishing. And that is why I have faith. I have had glimpses sometimes of his vastness. But I am not advanced, so I can only see so much.

But the journey to eradicating ignorance is causal until its not.  "Their faults lie in their search for tracks left by the tongues of others."
Even if we are trying to be on the track of tao, we may wind up on a track of delusion. How can this not be so unless we are fully united with tao?

How can a delusional person dictate what a liberating human being appears as? How can a delusional person significantly see underneath appearances? Are you really not delusional?Are you really all the way awakened?

His celebrity status is not celebrity status. People often experience love/devotion for beings that give them experiences such as what he gives. I write back cause of devotion perhaps. Others may be ignorant enough to consider what you said as anything but ignorant. But what you wrote is that, ignorant. 

I could go on and write back to every thing you said. But all I will emphasize is most of what you wrote is pathetically ignorant. But I gather rightly or wrongly that what I am saying will not be received here. So I will cease my message here.

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by mystery

[mystery]

He is the real deal, and he is very personable with his initiates. He is a genuine. I can attest to this.
I am surprised. I was not expecting this.
Kundalini kriya yoga is the real deal, and Yogiraj Satgurunath is a real kundalini kriya master. I am surprised. I was not expecting this.
I have been in love with other "tracks" before. But I was guided to his tracks and kundalini kriya yoga. And I am thankful and love is occurring.

 

Kundalini Kriya Yoga removes obstacles. It is indeed the lightning path. How simple kriya yoga is makes my brain want to go into denial about how genuine it is, but going in denial would be a lie at this point. It is just not up to my brain whether it works or not. It is beyond my belief and/or disbelief. Astonishingly, I can see it transforming my life, consciousness, and burning my karma.

 

As Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath says (something like), "you must fall in love with your practice, or you will not know its value".

Edited December 12, 2016 by mystery

[mystery]

I have talked to some of the teachers before too, one of them said that they don't really practice the kriya yoga much. They did not literally say that. But they said the the time they practice it per day, and you can only do so much kriya in so much time.
The quality matters too. The time spend doing kriya does matter, when you learn of Kriya. The quantity does matter.

Just like in any other technique quality matters, but the more you do that technique the more effective it becomes as well.

 

So again, the teachers are capable of being beginners and ignorant. I am not sure gurunath cares much about how realized they are as long as they are a good support system.

Edited December 12, 2016 by mystery

[mystery]

Students everywhere put unrealistic demands on sat gurus as well as others. Students everywhere arrogantly assume a liberated individual should behave according to their own box of limited perceptions of what a sat guru must be like. Hopefully you can at least figure out how ignorant that is.

[Pilgrim]

Hi Mystery,

 

Reading such a strong reply I have no doubt you are certain of what you are saying so your point of view is equal to that of the teacher I spoke to which is now to say I am uncertain who to believe but I prefer to lean to your side of things.

 

Maybe you could tell us of some of your personal interactions with Gurunath? It is nice to hear I may have been misinformed which is certainly possible and yes impressions can be misleading.