Looking for Nei Jing Tu: Qing Period Illustration of Inner Circulation

[Spectrum]

Perhaps a subject for a new thread.

[xenolith]

Perhaps a subject for a new thread.

Indeed.

 

Edit 1: Spectrum, please accept my apology for participating in the diverting of this thread.

 

Edit 2: I'll reply to Starjumper in the CCO thread.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited February 5, 2007 by xenolith

[Spectrum]

In the Healing Tao Version of the Nei Jing Tu Circulation Chart, there is the addition of a yellow orb to the right and above the "fair maiden". Is anyone familiar w/ this addition, it's iconography and or meaning?

 

Regards,

 

Spectrum

Edited February 5, 2007 by Spectrum

[Spectrum]

btt

[gendao]

14. I TILL MY OWN FIELD (Tan Tien or Elixir Field). Inside my field is a magical sprout (the immortal fetus or the unborn spirit) that lives 10,000 years.

Just a small note...this is interesting because 万 (wan) (or 萬) (10,000) is often used to symbolize longevity...although often using the archaic characters 卐/卍:

Ok, that is all.

Edited October 22, 2007 by vortex

[宁]

Way to go, Xeno

 

 

Boo SeanDenty

 

 

 

 

PS: Boys, it can only mean one of two things

- either you weren't, say, compatible with the HT practice,

- or you didn't get to go one inch deep into it...

 

I can't overrule the third possibility, that HT practice is, as Denty calls it "pop Daoism".

But my practice and experience can.

Also, I have a lot of friends that share the same spectacular results.

 

Do you know what is the best feedback on the reality of some practice? (for me)

(This goes with what Pietro asked about how to differentiate illusion from truth regarding practices)

You have to look at how the life of the practicioner is changing, when is touched by the gentle presence of the chi flow. There are so many miracles I witnessed regarding this, that makes yin yang gong look like a kindergarden game

 

Grow up Sean Denty

 

Love (of course)

 

Little1

 

PPS: Remember that even David Shen admitted that Chia is a man that knows his craft, and a good teacher too. Want me to quote it on the taobums?

[Spectrum]

Ego and "systems" are pretty big illusions.

 

Nice catch Vortex.

 

Spectrum

Edited October 22, 2007 by Spectrum

[宁]

if you judge things from the practical side, you may come with a different view

[Spectrum]

...like practical ego being a systematic illusion....

[DentyDao]

PPS: Remember that even David Shen admitted that Chia is a man that knows his craft, and a good teacher too. Want me to quote it on the taobums?

 

He also said Chia has not achieved anything in his practice and his masters all agree, including Wang LiPing, that the HT practice is flawed and dangerous and leads to no real achievement. Many people who practice this have disturbed their Shen and caused damage to their qi. Some, including some of the well know senior instructors have actually disbursed their Shen permenently and cannot progress spiritually in this life time. People would do well to leave this practice for good.

 

Many masters who have heard of the HT by reputation, and met some of the students and instructors have commented that the practice is a crime against heaven. It's important to realize that these statements are coming from highly enlightened masters who simply and dispassionately have told he truth about the reality of the HT. For serious practitioners, there should really be no question here.

 

Some of the HT practices are fine and can be helpful on a small scale with minor health issues, but any notion of effective cultivation with the practice is a total, utter fantasy.

 

People who have done these practices, especially the sexual practices, go to meet a master and find out they have serious issues that require years of backtracking to fix, some have messed up their qi so badly they cannot be helped. I'm simply reporting what I hear from David and his teachers time and time again.

 

As for your personal problems with me Little1, I have no quarral with you. It was David himself who banned you from our forum, not me. I would simply caution you again, no matter how good and powerful you feel, how many blissful sensations you have and how much 'progress' you think you are making, the reality is very likely far different. Really ask yourself what the goals of the HT are and what you getting now and what the price will be later. This is not true Dao...

 

A perfect example of this is the fact that the HT has adopted the Nei Jing Tu diagram as a representation of their practices. The reality, not one HT method has anything to do with the practices represented in the Nei Jing Tu. Not One. The Nei Jing Tu was created by the ancestors of the Long Men Pai and they and a few others have made a point of not revealing its meaning. It has nothing to do with Lao Tzu, Bodhi Dharma or the microcosmic orbit... or any other meaning atributed to it by people with big imaginations.

[rain]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[宁]

hey man, THAT was a joke

this time the joke was on you, we take turn from time to time, isn't that funny

so where's the quarrel?

 

listen, I know you think you and your chief are the big brothers of taoism, but not everybody belives that

 

you and DS are really something, you know?

do you think that we make all this effort just to delude ourselves?

don't you think this is one of the first things we would think about regarding practice and progress?

do you think that only you guys found out about how and what to measure?

 

really, you have a poor oppinion on all the rest of us.

and a disproportionate one about you and your chief.

 

Forgive that, please, tonight I have a wiked sense of humor. I don't know you, but from what I've read about your history, I wonder how long will this Long Men Pai fever will last.

I'm saying half joking, half serious.

I hope you truely found something to hold on to, develop, and start building what sages call wisdom.

We all need it, me too.

Maybe you will go even that far to understand that there are a lot of smart people in the world, even besides you, your teacher and your group.

 

Spectrum, that is cheap philosophy But am sure you're a great guy

[Spectrum]

Spectrum, that is cheap philosophy But am sure you're a great guy

 

Cheap thrills for keeping the thread half on topic.

 

"practical" as equvivalent with isolated or blind?

 

Just a drop in the bucket. Those single moments of conscious self interest who's wake loops around to bite back.

 

is this chart upside down and has some of the energy centres been removed or "hidden in the drawing?

 

Kinda like a treasure map isn't it?

 

going by the smell....

 

The old mans beard hangs down.

 

i finally came to the conclusion today that balance IS the reality.

we are imperfect. we are realizing.

 

we are ... the process of life harmonizing w/ death?

 

Spectrum

[rain]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[宁]

oh don't worry, i'll give you a BIG FAT REST

[rain]

oh don't worry, i'll give you a BIG FAT REST

 

gagging yourself finally.

im sur THAT'll do the trick.

Edited October 26, 2007 by rain

[宁]

Spectrum, I will repay the mistake of playing a part in dragging the topic off-track, by commenting a bit on the subject of ancient illustrations. My take on it is that a picture like that could mean a whole system of practice. It is because of what I learned from studying various sources of ancient texts. It was like this, in plain terms: The X family's great secret and ability was connected with mastering this point, or that cavity... after which they would give you a hint on it, just to make you wonder and ask for more. I guess that was all that the written tradition could say about it, if you wanted more, you had to be "from the family". So here we don't have some point or cavity, or valley, but the whole landscape. That could mean only a very detailed knowledge.

 

Little

[rain]

"...a whole range of texts"...

 

the riddle is still to be contemplated, mostly by comparing the scrambled drawing to the inner map

i presume.

some have "family-connections"

some have good teachers

and others..

 

like furry animals.

[Spectrum]

the riddle is still to be contemplated, mostly by comparing the scrambled drawing to the inner map

i presume.

 

Contemplating still riddles

 

Mapping inner drawings

 

Scrambling comparisons presumptions

[Spectrum]

Found something interesting in Saso's translations notes including passages from The Gold Pavilon:

 

The Central Pond (zhongchi) has a master who wears crimson robes.

Three inches below the Field - this is where the spirit dwells.

Inside and outside mutually oppose each other, so seal it tightly.

Within the Spirit Hut (shenlu), there should be regulation and reparation.

The Mysterious Breasts (xuanying) and Qi Ducts (qiguan) receive the talisman of vital essence (jingfu).

Urgently, you must strengthen vital essense in order to maintain yourself.

 

Cf. Huang 1990, 222

[luke643]

Well, I read all the posts, and I thought I would bring it back to the beginning:

 

Does anybody have an english translation of the Xiuzhen Tu?

 

I have been working with Komjathy's Neijing Tu translation and commentary, which is excellent. I would get Catherine Despeux's book Taoisme et corps humaine - but it is out of print.

[exorcist_1699]

People always mix up the acupuncture points in Acupuncture practice with those critical places/gates in

Taoist practice, and think that they are the same , which , can be very misleading .

 

The acupuncture points are always there; you can locate them , draw and pinpoint them on map/model .In fact, when you insert the needle precisely and skillfully into a point on human body , there is qi-feeling ,telling you undoubtedly the existence of qi . However, In Taoist practice , most crucial gates/places are not there , it is only after your practice having reached certain stage , they appear ; and, different levels will appear to you different things...

Edited March 26, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[luke643]

People always mix up the acupuncture points in Acupuncture practice with those critical places/gates in

Taoist practice, and think that they are the same , which , can be very misleading .

 

The acupuncture points are always there; you can locate them , draw and pinpoint them on map/model .In fact, when you insert the needle precisely and skillfully into a point on human body , there is qi-feeling ,telling you undoubtedly the existence of qi . However, In Taoist practice , most crucial gates/places are not there , it is only after your practice having reached certain stage , they appear ; and, different levels will appear to you different things...

 

well, I haven't posted much, so I don't want to be contrary so early...but I don't quite agree.

 

The acupuncture points are equivalent, for example - Ming Men (acupuncture - now called Governing Vessel 4) is always ming men, self cultivation or needling. You are referring to its usage, which I agree is slightly different in acupuncture then in Daoist self cultivation. But the point is the same.

 

Additionally, you are making a syncretic error when you separate acupuncture from Daoist practice. Daoist practice is inextricably linked with acupuncture practice. The classics of acupuncture are housed in the same Canon, and work from the same precepts.

 

I hope I have not been too combative,

 

all the best,

 

Luke

[exorcist_1699]

In Taoist practice , we seldom talk about specific acupuncture points; Dantian is never a specific point in our body. "Paying attention to 3 inch below navel" is definitely a wrong instruction that only enables people to initiate dull qi , the qi that can cure minor disease but far from attaining Tao.

 

Yet Tao ( pre-heavenly qi ) does hide in our physical body , which I agree. Without the pseudo one , how can you attain the real one ? Without the post-heavenly one , how can you find the pre-heavenly one ?

[YMWong]

The acupuncture points are equivalent, for example - Ming Men (acupuncture - now called Governing Vessel 4) is always ming men, self cultivation or needling. You are referring to its usage, which I agree is slightly different in acupuncture then in Daoist self cultivation. But the point is the same.

 

No, they are not the same.

 

Ming Men is a cavity in chinese acupuncture and an 'area' in Daoist Cultivation.

They are not 'the same thing', at all

 

YM