Looking for Nei Jing Tu: Qing Period Illustration of Inner Circulation

[Cameron]

 

 

 

 

Jing, in terms of actual cultivation, has much less to do with the sex glands or sex for that matter than most know. That's why you can tell a teacher who is full of shit right off the bat when they start talking about jing and sexual essence (unless they are talking about TCM). Which is not to say that some periods of abstenence aren't prescribed; but please don't go five years without ejaculating, pretending to having 'whole body orgasms.'

 

 

 

This is interesting. Ime not bringing this up out of any desire to create conflict but just to mention. One of our other friends here, Plato and Max, have consistently stated over the last couple years that Master Nan Huai Chin is THE authority on BOTH Taoism and Zen in China. And from what I got from reading his student Bodri's stuff as well as a little of Master Nan's stuff is that jing is a big deal. That your basically not going anywhere spiritually without saving it up. And the path basically is about jing to qi to shen. I think Wu and Tao come after shen but not sure.

 

So your saying this is incorrect? Is sexual energy and jing transforming to qi and all that not a big deal in the system your studying?

 

Ime asking you respectfully, seriously there is no reason not to be able to discuss these things in a friendly manner.

[DentyDao]

This is interesting. Ime not bringing this up out of any desire to create conflict but just to mention. One of our other friends here, Plato and Max, have consistently stated over the last couple years that Master Nan Huai Chin is THE authority on BOTH Taoism and Zen in China. And from what I got from reading his student Bodri's stuff as well as a little of Master Nan's stuff is that jing is a big deal. That your basically not going anywhere spiritually without saving it up. And the path basically is about jing to qi to shen. I think Wu and Tao come after shen but not sure.

 

This is a very important point. Jing is very important and very misunderstood. You can NOT 'save up Jing.' I've read Bill's work and he oversimplifying things when he says that Jing is sexual essence. This is one of the things that turned me away from pursuing Bill's online course. Perhaps he is just simplifying things for his readers; the reality of Jing is a bit of a trade secret among achieved masters.

 

So your saying this is incorrect? Is sexual energy and jing transforming to qi and all that not a big deal in the system your studying?

Yes and no. I'm saying that Jing is not sexual energy. Sexual energy/glands certainly has a Jing Aspect, but the two are not synonimous. Cameran, remember this; when you really understand this relationship, you can begin to truly practice.

 

Ime asking you respectfully, seriously there is no reason not to be able to discuss these things in a friendly manner.

 

Of course we can. Don't worry about stepping on my toes. You guys are far to polite; it's insulting.

Edited January 10, 2007 by seandenty

[mike andre]

So then,

 

What is jing?

[Smile]

...jing is a big deal. That your basically not going anywhere spiritually without saving it up.

 

Hi Cam,

I would say that's a bit simplified. When most people talk about Jing (especially from Healing Tao circles), they really want to say "semen", forgetting blood, saliva, etc and that only represents the Yin aspect. The Yang aspect is your hormones. Semen, blood, saliva, hormones all belong to acquired Jing.

 

On the other hand, the Jing you get when you are born from your parents, life force, etc is of a different kind and once you loose it it can't be restored back. That is stored primarily in your Kidneys.

 

Anyway, saving up jing as semen doesn't mean a thing if we don't transform sexual energy connected with it through spiritual practices. It's like hording a sack of potatoes forever- eventually they all will turn bad. I would say more on it but have to go. Later...

 

Max

[Taoist81]

Hi Cam,

I would say that's a bit simplified. When most people talk about Jing (especially from Healing Tao circles), they really want to say "semen", forgetting blood, saliva, etc and that only represents the Yin aspect. The Yang aspect is your hormones. Semen, blood, saliva, hormones all belong to acquired Jing.

 

On the other hand, the Jing you get when you are born from your parents, life force, etc is of a different kind and once you loose it it can't be restored back. That is stored primarily in your Kidneys.

 

Anyway, saving up jing as semen doesn't mean a thing if we don't transform sexual energy connected with it through spiritual practices. It's like hording a sack of potatoes forever- eventually they all will turn bad. I would say more on it but have to go. Later...

 

Max

 

Not to nit pick, but....in TCM excessive ejaculation (or as they describe it at my school "excessive sex") does deplete your Jing, not "just acquired" jing. In the body one can hardly distinguish between what you have and what you acquire. Though you are quite right that it is not just semen, semen does contain jing. There is a very simplistic chart in our clinic that is meant to show how TCM looks at the body's energy systems, and one of the things you notice is that both congenital and acquired jing are stored together, and both contribute to the creation of semen or ova.

[forestofsouls]

So then,

 

What is jing?

 

In addition to what others have said, in my Tai Chi school, once you learn to tune into and flow your chi, you're taught to condense your chi into jing which you can use physically. In martial arts, this is known as fah jing.

[forestofsouls]

Courtesy is over rated.

 

Hmmm... reading the David Verdesi article "Chinese Mind Vs Western Mind models of truth", with its discussion of Confucian ideals and the concept of "Li" gave me a different impression.

Edited January 11, 2007 by forestofsouls

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 28, 2021 by darebak

[xenolith]

seandenty,

 

With respect to questions of yours addressed to me, until such time as you demonstrate an awareness of the information that I've shared in this forum, I'll have to choose to ignore you. I mean no disrespect...there are simply too many like you to pay individual attention to each one of you. I'm very sorry that this is the case.

 

Out of courtesy to you, here are a couple of relevant readings:

 

this one's a thread, while this one's a single post.

 

Love.

 

xeno

[DentyDao]

Sorry for any offense. The concerns about Chia might be worth considering; there are a lot of good teachers out there too. I don't have time to read your posts, but I'm sure your a with-it guy; my comments weren't ment as a personal criticism of you.

 

All the best, S

[Trunk]

What is jing?

the reality of Jing is a bit of a trade secret among achieved masters.

Just for those of you who are new to TTBs, you might do a search on posts by SeanDenty to catch up on the conversation. He has substantial back-ground in the HT, and is now connected with some other - very interesting (to understate) - teachers. However, it's a closed-door system, so there are limits to what he can say - out of respect for the teachings and for his lineage.

[Cameron]

Hi Cam,

I would say that's a bit simplified. When most people talk about Jing (especially from Healing Tao circles), they really want to say "semen", forgetting blood, saliva, etc and that only represents the Yin aspect. The Yang aspect is your hormones. Semen, blood, saliva, hormones all belong to acquired Jing.

 

On the other hand, the Jing you get when you are born from your parents, life force, etc is of a different kind and once you loose it it can't be restored back. That is stored primarily in your Kidneys.

 

Anyway, saving up jing as semen doesn't mean a thing if we don't transform sexual energy connected with it through spiritual practices. It's like hording a sack of potatoes forever- eventually they all will turn bad. I would say more on it but have to go. Later...

 

Max

 

 

Yes. I presumed we all understood eachother that of course you are meditating, doing spiritual practice along with any retention stuff. I don't mean to imply Master Nan says save your jing and your going to be an enlightened Buddha. If you want to look at jing like money not ejaculating too much(and I have no idea what that actually means for each individual)would be like not spending your money excessivily and spiritual practices would be like working, or making money. Would you agree with this?(Max or Sean Denty).

 

BTW, I don't necissarily agree with this model. Just trying to have some idea where the different schools represented here are at with these foundation teachings.

[thelerner]

In Kaishan Gi Gong they required 100 days of retention. It could be early in training or a bit later, but they thought it had to done and the sooner you did the easier it would be.

 

The concept of 100 days of retention appears in many schools. Part of it is psychological, if you have the will to lay off for 3 months plus, then you're a serious student. I think we've all documented there are mental and physical effects of longer retention. If you raise the bar to knock out sexual thoughts then you make it that much more difficult and profound.

 

It seems to put you on a higher level energetically where you can transform or burn.

 

 

Michael

[sanbaowellness]

Hello. Here's a link that has a tiled version of the Nei Jing Tu. I came by it recently, though I have a full sized banner at home and for lectures I give to clients/students. It shows good detail, too. You can print from the site, or copy the tiles and piece together. The link is: http://www.damo-qigong.net/tu/neijing/neijing.htm

 

I can translate the general meaning of it for anyone interested. I sometimes lecture and teach basic Daoist Theory and Internal Alchemy, but am very much a student for life. The litteral translation of characters in it's entirety is a challenge, given that it's an ancient alchemy drawing and many of the characters are very old. I only speak a little, but many of my Chinese friends and colleges who are fluent, don't recognize much of this ancient script. I know only what I've studied from a Wudang Priest and another respected mentor of mine.

 

Hope this link helps. Here it is again:

http://www.damo-qigong.net/tu/neijing/neijing.htm

 

and also for the Xiu Zhen Tu,

 

http://www.damo-qigong.net/tu/neijing/xiuzhen.htm

 

p.s.

Good post below from, Max. Yin aspect of jing is the reproductive and sexual fluids. Saliva is considered a yang aspect of jing though still energetically linked to sexuality. In the Nei Jing Tu, this is represented by the boy and girl on the water treadmill. They represent the yin and yang energies and the right and left Kidneys which are reservoirs of Yuan Jing. The script reads, "Kidney water reverses its course." Through meditation and qigong one can conserve and reverse the flow up the spine and increase vitality.

 

NOTE: "Jing" as used in the title "Nei Jing" is a different script. It refers to the inner weaving of fabric within the body, as in Jing Luo which means underground river or channel (often called meridians.)

[xenolith]

Sorry for any offense. The concerns about Chia might be worth considering; there are a lot of good teachers out there too. I don't have time to read your posts, but I'm sure your a with-it guy; my comments weren't ment as a personal criticism of you.

 

All the best, S

No offense nor personal criticism taken. My comments regarding your posting style were offered for the benefit of the Forum. I don't need a teacher. Were you to (have) read my posts you would know why.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited January 12, 2007 by xenolith

[Smile]

I don't mind sharing at all Smile. I consider it an act of Love. With respect to the content of Chia's Cultivating Male Sexual Energy, I've found every single thing in it to be factual with the significant exception of the duration of time required to achieve movement of chi to the Ming-Men...Chia says "It may take one or two months for the power to pass the coccyx..." (pg. 127). In my experience, if "one or two months" is changed to "about 10 years", there would be absolutely nothing in that book that has been inconsistent with my experience. I should note that I find it significantly difficult to resolve his reference to the requirement for "10,000 Big Draws" before being able to move chi to the Ming-Men (I'm sorry, I don't have that particular page reference handy...I'll look for it later and edit this post to include it later). That count certainly seems inconsistent with a "one to two month" time frame. Nonetheless, everything else described in that book has been consistent with my experience.

 

Frankly it's perplexed me ever since I've looked into Taoism beyond my own experience how there could be so many people who found fault with Chia. Frankly^2, that perplexion is part of why I'm here. I don't get it. I do get Chia. Frankly^3, my working hypothesis is that Nan Huai-Chin is right, less than 1 in 10,000 will succeed at seminal retention to the degree required for "enlightenment"...this makes more than 10,000 critics for each fan.

Hi Xeno

So what you are saying is after 10+ yers of following Chia's sex book you are the only person who was successful in CCO a few times a year, am I correct? I'm not sure it's would be enough proof to say Chia has an authentic mastery of something...

The second question is why do you focus so much on the this particular sensation (CCO) as opposed to say, bliss arising during meditation or pain, for that matter?

Thanks,

Max

[xenolith]

Hi Max,

 

It's been 23 years since I began SKF training in accordance with Chia's Cultivating male Sexual Energy. It took 10 years of nearly daily training before I achieved my first CCO. As far as being "the only person who was successful in CCO a few times a year", well I'm sure I'll never know the answer to that, not to mention sure that I hope that that's not the case. My intuition tells me that others have, but it also tells me that I've not talked to any yet. So no, you're not correct.

 

I'm quite curious about others' experiences with SKF. Hoping to find one (or more) to talk with is the primary reason why I joined this forum. As far as I can tell, no male member has offered their knowledge and experience of CCO. Two female members have, but their accounts of the experience are significantly different than my experience (which may simply be a gender based difference...I hope to investigate this here later). One, witch, who acknowledges no practice of OKF, presumably the mechanism by which females achieve CCO. The other, Taomeow, who describes CCO as a "reptillian" experience or something to that effect. Given that for me CCOs contain the highest order of beauty, I find their accounts simultaneously fascinating and disturbing. More of the latter. But I digress...allow me to answer your second question:

 

I focus so much (of my writing on this forum) on the particular experience (sensation is an inadequate descriptor) of CCO because, based on my experience, it is the ultimate experience that a human being can experience. This understanding in no way denegrates the value of any other experience in Life, including meditation, pain and all others. Indeed, I hold that one should embrace and find value in all experiences. And I do. But for purposes of spiritual evolution, the CCO can't be beat! IMO of course.

 

Lest I be misunderstood, my focus on discussion of CCO on this forum is also done for the benefit of others...those that have and those that have not (yet) realized an interest in spiritual evolution. For those other than these, my comments will likely be perceived as annoying or worse. For those to whom this applies, I'm very sorry. Please ignore me if this applies.

 

Max, I compliment you are your inquisitiveness and courtesy. I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction. Please let me know if I haven't.

 

Respectfully and with

 

Love.

 

xeno

[Starjumper]

Access to the Tao.

 

..................

 

Access to the Tao.

 

Hi Xeno, could you explain what this means to you. I have a good idea what 'becoming one with Tao' means to me but I suspect there are many with unformed thoughts on this, unlike you.

[Spectrum]

Do any of the contributors to my thread have other sources of the Qing period illustration in question?

[Spectrum]

Edited January 13, 2007 by Spectrum

[Wayfarer64]

[Spectrum]

In the spirit of the dialog at hand, I've added the latest addition to this thread as an attachment to post #1. It is a full color version of the Nei Jing Tu that closely resembles that copied by one E. Rousselle and printed in his book on taoist meditation published in german in 1933. This particular copy is similar to Rousselle's painting because of the halo's around head and torso, and the distinguishing color charataristics. I believe the content in this one is more true to the original (first visable diagram in post #1) as the fair maiden is seated, where in Rousselles painting she was standing, etc. I do not know the date or source of this reprint.

 

Enjoy w/ High Regards,

 

Spectrum

Edited January 15, 2007 by Spectrum

[xenolith]

Hi Starjumper. As we all know, the Tao is available to us all at all times. However, as far as I can tell, few have experienced it in the form of a CCO. This is not an inidictment. It just is.

 

Fundamentally, CCOs are experiences of ego dimunition within which one finds awareness of self and the infinite energy field, the Tao, within which that self exists. So, more fundamentally, "access to the Tao" means "access to the self". As far as I can tell.

 

Love.

 

xeno

[Wayfarer64]

Hey there Xeno et al,

 

I've begun thinking of the Tao as the life force that connects all consciousness, be it in spirit form or corporealy housed in a body. There is unity and a sense of self as well within that part of each of us...Just another way to say the same thing perhaps...

[Starjumper]

I've begun thinking of the Tao as the life force that connects all consciousness, be it in spirit form or corporealy housed in a body.

 

I'm sorry, but I see this as incorrect. Tao is not life force, chi is life force. Tao is not a force of any kind, Tao is the WAY the universe works, end of story.

 

 

 

Hi Starjumper. As we all know, the Tao is available to us all at all times. However, as far as I can tell, few have experienced it in the form of a CCO. This is not an inidictment. It just is.

 

Fundamentally, CCOs are experiences of ego dimunition within which one finds awareness of self and the infinite energy field, the Tao, within which that self exists. So, more fundamentally, "access to the Tao" means "access to the self". As far as I can tell.

 

I'm having trouble accepting this. What you say no doubt happens, but once again, Tao is not a field of energy, so I think you are using incorrect definitions. To become aware that you are immersed in a field of energy is very nice, but it's probably the Earth's energy field you are becomeing aware of if anything, and indoctrination is doing the rest. In my view this does not equate to becoming one with Tao. The way a person becomes one with Tao is two fold, and the main fold that requires the most work is Te (ethics and virtue), perhaps the word 'love' will work as a substitute for Te for you?

Edited January 19, 2007 by Starjumper7