Empty Force

[virtuous pig]

Hi fellow taobums

 

I been studying and practice qigong going on seven odd years now, i read a book years back on empty force by Paul Dong, not really a great book, but interesting nonetheless on developing empty force, that is to project energy from the body to stop an opponent, heal etc.

 

Was wondering if any of you more advanced bums had any experience with this kind of training and could give me any advice on training techniques and length of practice? Any input is welcome,

 

yours humbly,

 

The virtuous Pig

[Marblehead]

This thread desreves at least one response because it is a fair question.

 

What you are talking about I call Chi Energy and yes, I do hold to the understanding that it is a real energy that can be utilized. My selection of the word "utilized" may not even be the best word here but I know of none better.

 

I do not formally practice so I must leave it to others to make any further comments and/or suggestions.

[joeblast]

If I had a caricature of Max raising one eyebrow, I'd post it

[Ya Mu]

Hi fellow taobums

 

I been studying and practice qigong going on seven odd years now, i read a book years back on empty force by Paul Dong, not really a great book, but interesting nonetheless on developing empty force, that is to project energy from the body to stop an opponent, heal etc.

 

Was wondering if any of you more advanced bums had any experience with this kind of training and could give me any advice on training techniques and length of practice? Any input is welcome,

 

yours humbly,

 

The virtuous Pig

If you want to learn medical qigong I would suggest looking at NQA's website, www.nqa.org, for Level IV Teacher listings, find a program, and enroll. No amount of reading books is going to get you to the level you can achieve by actually studying it. If you are more interested in martial arts I suggest Hsing I, but there are many MAs out there. What I have found is that, for the most part, MA understanding of energetics differs from medical qigong understanding of energetics, as it is 2 different applications. Of course this depends on what a person has studied.

Length of practice? The rest of your life. It is a lifetime practice. Length of program? My medical qigong program can be completed in as little as 3 years.

[Chang]

Whilst the standing practices in Paul Dongs book would work to increase the energy levels, I Have yet to see evidence of Empty Force being used to stop an opponent in their tracks, let alone bowl one over.

 

Those who demonstrate this ability (there are quite a few on You Tube) invariably use their own students to show their supposed power.

 

I would not go so far as to state that such abilities are impossible but a goodly dose of scepticism should be kept at hand.

[Friend]

Hi fellow taobums

 

I been studying and practice qigong going on seven odd years now, i read a book years back on empty force by Paul Dong, not really a great book, but interesting nonetheless on developing empty force, that is to project energy from the body to stop an opponent, heal etc.

 

Was wondering if any of you more advanced bums had any experience with this kind of training and could give me any advice on training techniques and length of practice? Any input is welcome,

 

yours humbly,

 

The virtuous Pig

 

You can contact Paul Dong himself as well you can ask James Ma.

From the Book James Ma could obtain Empty Force by one exercise alone "Circling Hands"

so he may share it.

 

I find Empty Force training difficult. One has to be able to sense Qi to train effectivly if one is not a natural.

 

Best,

Q

[virtuous pig]

thxs for the responses so far, don't be afraid to feed the pig

[lifeforce]

I have started to practice empty force after re-reading the book recently.

I was already practicing the 3 components which make up the basic cultivation, albeit in a different form.

Namely:

1. A moving form

2. Standing-on-stake

3. Meditation

 

So, I tweaked my practices a little in order to cultivate the empty force.

 

Here's a little story behind my interest in empty force:

I have a good friend who is an accomplished martial artist with over 20 years experience. He is a believer in tried and tested methods and doesn't fall for BS. Anyway, we got talking a few years back and he told me that he started to take an interest in qi cultivation about 15 years ago and started traveling to practice with a few like-minded people. This was way before I had an interest in such things.

The group he was training with hosted a seminar with Richard Mooney, who was a student of Paul Dong at the time. So, my friend went along as a skeptic but willing to be open to whatever was to happen. There were karate guys there as well as taiji and qigong folks. Well, Richard Mooney performed some demonstrations which proved to all of the people there of the power of this empty force. Not in a way where they were knocked down without being touched, but they were made to sway forward and backward from a distance. A few people, my friend included, felt a dense, heavy energy which stopped them from making any aggressive moves towards Mr Mooney.

He also performed qi healing to a couple of people. All in all, my friend was convinced that indeed, something mysterious had definitely happened.

A power that is available to anyone willing to put in the effort, but that takes years and years of daily cultivation, dedication and hard work to reap benefits.

 

I agree there are a lot of terrible staged videos on YouTube etc, and this does put a lot of folks off. There are probably masters who have these skills but don't show them openly. I have been in touch with both Paul Dong and Richard Mooney, they are both very nice guys, humble and sincere. When I spoke to them, they didn't try and convince me of anything. I was basically told to try it for myself. The book has all the information in order to practice. The hard part is putting in the hours, every day, to build up the empty force. So that's what I'm doing.

 

edit:

Here's another guy who practices empty force.

Edited November 12, 2012 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

Bump

[Ninjafro]

This is definitely an interesting topic. Is this skill exclusive only to this system?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Ninjafro

[MERCELESS ONE]

check out the thread " strong energy cultivation " we've having a really good conversation there on this.

 

also, empty force cant be developed without first cultivating your energy! just not going to happen. we cover techniques for this also.

[Isimsiz Biri]

In my opinion, the book is a garbage. Even somebody really develops that kind of force, he can obey his ego and use it in a bad way. Too risky.

[Jetsun]

Empty force in martial arts is just an exercise in authority psychology and social pressures, you see all these students being thrown around by their master using empty force because they have handed over their power to him as an authority and will get ejected from the social group if they break the rules of the group. If you don't buy into all that bs you can just walk up to the master and punch him in the face like what happened when that empty force master challenged an MMA fighter and got knocked out in about thirty seconds.

[MERCELESS ONE]

In my opinion, the book is a garbage. Even somebody really develops that kind of force, he can obey his ego and use it in a bad way. Too risky.

 

use it in a good way or bad way its no different than owning a gun, hell even a stick can be used for bad! its all up to the practioner how they decide to use it. thats not the problem the problem is real or false information!

[Ish]

Empty force in martial arts is just an exercise in authority psychology and social pressures, you see all these students being thrown around by their master using empty force because they have handed over their power to him as an authority and will get ejected from the social group if they break the rules of the group. If you don't buy into all that bs you can just walk up to the master and punch him in the face like what happened when that empty force master challenged an MMA fighter and got knocked out in about thirty seconds.

 

Agreed.

 

As for real empty force, IMO its pointless to base a system around it, you may or may not develop this level of power after decades of dedicated practice.

[Isimsiz Biri]

use it in a good way or bad way its no different than owning a gun, hell even a stick can be used for bad! its all up to the practioner how they decide to use it. thats not the problem the problem is real or false information!

 

That specific book is false. But there is real Yin-Yang Gong of Lei Shan Dao schools for sure. Do not doubt it. But be sure that real Yin-Yang Gong is far more attractive to use instead of a gun or a stick. That is why it is so risky. A person with real neigong powers can easily give harm or even kill another person.

 

Furthermore, while practicing real Neigong, a student may face very serious health problems, especially, if she/he is not living together with the master but she/he is thousands of kilometers away. That student may do thousands of wrong things and if the master is not nearby the student to correct these mistakes, bad things can and do happen.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Mokona]

That specific book is false. But there is real Yin-Yang Gong of Lei Shan Dao schools for sure. Do not doubt it. But be sure that real Yin-Yang Gong is far more attractive to use instead of a gun or a stick. That is why it is so risky. A person with real neigong powers can easily give harm or even kill another person.

 

Furthermore, while practicing real Neigong, a student may face very serious health problems, especially, if she/he is not living together with the master but she/he is thousands of kilometers away. That student may do thousands of wrong things and if the master is not nearby the student to correct these mistakes, bad things can and do happen.

Can you share first hand experience of chi cultivation that lead to a student's health becoming unstable? I'm curious becuase i've yet to hear of any first hand accounts, but hear often that it "happens all the time." "Many things can go wrong." "Watch your ass."

[lifeforce]

In my opinion, the book is a garbage. Even somebody really develops that kind of force, he can obey his ego and use it in a bad way. Too risky.

 

Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course.

Have you spent years, daily, cultivating this kind of force ?

Do you know anyone personally who has experience with this art ?

You see, people nowadays want the quick fix. They're not prepared to put in the long hours daily for many years in order to develop special skills.

[lifeforce]

Empty force in martial arts is just an exercise in authority psychology and social pressures, you see all these students being thrown around by their master using empty force because they have handed over their power to him as an authority and will get ejected from the social group if they break the rules of the group. If you don't buy into all that bs you can just walk up to the master and punch him in the face like what happened when that empty force master challenged an MMA fighter and got knocked out in about thirty seconds.

 

The YouTube videos are horrendous. Nearly all are staged. There are many, many people who have successfully cultivated this type of force and use it for healing, both of self and others. They just don't make it public for fear of ridicule because of the tainted reputation the art now has. It's not meant as an art in which to challenge MMA fighters. That's just silly.

[lifeforce]

Agreed.

 

As for real empty force, IMO its pointless to base a system around it, you may or may not develop this level of power after decades of dedicated practice.

 

But even if you don't develop this power, you'll have a pretty good zhan zhuang and meditation practice.

[lifeforce]

That specific book is false. But there is real Yin-Yang Gong of Lei Shan Dao schools for sure. Do not doubt it. But be sure that real Yin-Yang Gong is far more attractive to use instead of a gun or a stick. That is why it is so risky. A person with real neigong powers can easily give harm or even kill another person.

 

Furthermore, while practicing real Neigong, a student may face very serious health problems, especially, if she/he is not living together with the master but she/he is thousands of kilometers away. That student may do thousands of wrong things and if the master is not nearby the student to correct these mistakes, bad things can and do happen.

 

The discussion is about Lin Kong Jin, not neigong or David Verdesi $$$$$.

Why do you think the book is false ?

[lifeforce]

A few people, my friend included, felt a dense, heavy energy which stopped them from making any aggressive moves towards Mr Mooney.

 

I'm beginning to think that this energy works on psychic levels as well as physical. The attackers felt like they couldn't, or didn't want to attack Mr. Mooney.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course.

Have you spent years, daily, cultivating this kind of force ?

Do you know anyone personally who has experience with this art ?

You see, people nowadays want the quick fix. They're not prepared to put in the long hours daily for many years in order to develop special skills.

 

 

This is not "nowadays" but consistent throughout the whole "season" of intelligence since the dawn of civilized Humankind. It is part of the secret behind these fascinating and potentially fantastic feats; there are no quick fixes or shortcuts, PHYSICALLY designed in such a way that success is essentially gaurenteed to require the right level of patience and ego moderation/control.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Can you share first hand experience of chi cultivation that lead to a student's health becoming unstable? I'm curious becuase i've yet to hear of any first hand accounts, but hear often that it "happens all the time." "Many things can go wrong." "Watch your ass."

 

I am very fortunate that I did not face a problem, mainly I did not practice a long enough time, real Lei Shan Dao Neigong. I have seen (more than one) people who had really serious health problems. I can not give details due to privacy.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course.

 

As you mentioned, I said "In my opinion". My opinion binds me, you can decide yourself.

 

Have you spent years, daily, cultivating this kind of force ?

 

Fortunately, no.

 

Do you know anyone personally who has experience with this art ?

 

I know much more powerful masters with real Yin-Yang Gong not this cheap trick

 

 

You see, people nowadays want the quick fix. They're not prepared to put in the long hours daily for many years in order to develop special skills.

 

You are quite right. I think you are also in the same category desiring the quick fix. Could you just show me a person with this "Empty Force - Kong Jing" with long hours of practice?

 

I mentioned in some other threads, but let me repeat here: Without a real master from a real lineage, these kind of things are nothing but a dream.

 

There are some "masters" like Kiai "master" Yanagikuryen (www.youtube.com/watch?v=edKZAFUfO38).These men have a special bond with their disciples. So their disciples really feel that "force". However, an outsider can go and beat the "master" This is not Yin-Yang Gong.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Recep Ivedik